Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

case885

awec wrote:


Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

Gilroy is really out to impress playing both wings

jacothelad


Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

That's shocking. They have Trimble and Jackson available but not in the team, no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

irishbucsfan

Ospreys team:

15 Dan Evans
14 Kristian Phillips
13 Jonathan Spratt
12 Ben John
11 Tom Grabham
10 Sam Davies
9 Tom Habberfield

1 Marc Thomas
2 Sam Parry
3 Dmitri Arhip
4 Lloyd Ashley (Capt)
5 De Kock Steenkamp
6 Joe Bearman
7 Lloyd Evans
8 Gareth Delve

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Otten
17 Nicky Smith
18 Cai Griffiths
19 Rory Thornton
20 Dan Baker
21 Sam Underhill
22 Brendon Leonard
23 Ashley Beck

Dan Baker and Rory Thornton on the bench are good young forwards, both were in the Welsh training side for their world cup preperations.

Their halfbacks of Habberfield and Davies are far better than what Ulster have available, likely to be the difference imo

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »


Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

That's shocking. They have Trimble and Jackson available but not in the team, no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

Trimble is playing, the team above is a typo, agree Jackson should be playing though.

The bench is a worry, although personally I think is a smidgen better but he is still hardly going to strike fear into the Ospreys. I've only seen Andrew play a couple of times and I thought he looked decent, I can only go on what I've seen and those who have seen more of him may have different opinion.

Maybe I'm in a good mood because it's Friday but I'm a bit more optimistic that we will do ok tonight. I don't expect a honking anyway!

Edit - looking at the Ospreys team, they do have a significant advantage at 10. Sam Davies is a class act.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

Personally I'd have played Luke at 10 and brought young Arnold into the midfield. Marshall has definitely got experience at 10 for Ballymena.

Has played there for Ballymena, the Ravens and Irish underage.

postitnote

Is there some rule, now that the world cup squads are finalised, that prohibits club teams from playing anyone in the world cup squad?

bilston

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34131691

New online Ulster rugby magazine above.

The Elk

jacothelad wrote: »

no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

Makes you wonder why they spent so much money on one player - Charles Piutau.

jacothelad

The Elk wrote: »

Makes you wonder why they spent so much money on one player - Charles Piutau.

Well, they haven't spent a penny on him yet. July 2016 before he arrives but yes, we don't 'need' him and we do need some decent back row players. I suppose after this season there will be a lot of movement in rugby players. With the way things are panning out in S.A. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mass exodus. Sadly Ulster won't be in a position to sign anyone afaik.

Herbst is the Project
Ludik may be sacrificed for C.P.
F.V.D.M. is out of contract this season. We need him to re-sign or someone like him.
Pienaar is still here next season.
Williams will be gone I'm sure.

Wilson is getting on.
Diack is o.k. - at some things and is a great second row when needed.
Williams, fit and well is worth his place but I doubt he will be here next season.
Henry is top notch and has a season or two left at the top.
Faloon is o.k. but too small.
Henderson.... great

Ross and Reidy would need to have been force fed the stem cells that make a rugby player during the summer. Up to now they have been McComishesque.

irishbucsfan

With this ever-growing list of talent in the centers in Ulster surely it would be madness for the provinces not to arrange some sort of move to get them game time.

Down in Leinster we have a lack of depth at 12 while we have more 7s than we can give game time to. In Ulster the opposite is true. When SOB and Jordi Murphy come back what are Leavy and Van Der Flier going to do with themselves? Those guys are good enough to start Champions Cup games imo. The short term answer to Ulster's back row problems surely lies in Dublin, someone like Dom Ryan could reinvent himself in Belfast as well with consistent game time.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

With this ever-growing list of talent in the centers in Ulster surely it would be madness for the provinces not to arrange some sort of move to get them game time.

Down in Leinster we have a lack of depth at 12 while we have more 7s than we can give game time to. In Ulster the opposite is true. When SOB and Jordi Murphy come back what are Leavy and Van Der Flier going to do with themselves? Those guys are good enough to start Champions Cup games imo. The short term answer to Ulster's back row problems surely lies in Dublin, someone like Dom Ryan could reinvent himself in Belfast as well with consistent game time.

Who would you want IBF?!

It's nuts. Payne is the incumbent Irish 13 and Cave is in the WC squad? Marshall is getting back to form and he is already an Irish international. McCloskey has it all IMO. Arnold is the next big thing and then there is Olding is a super player. There is also Jacob Stockdale in the Academy but I don't know where he will end up position wise. Don't forget we've already seen Chris Farrell leave.

Rugby is pretty attritional so there will always be injuries and players involved with Ireland but it will be hard keeping them all happy.

Resource wise moving Payne to 15 and letting McCloskey, Marshall and Cave battle it out after the WC with Olding coming back slowly, and Arnold biding his time patiently is best for Ulster.

Doubt it will happen though.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

With this ever-growing list of talent in the centers in Ulster surely it would be madness for the provinces not to arrange some sort of move to get them game time.

Down in Leinster we have a lack of depth at 12 while we have more 7s than we can give game time to. In Ulster the opposite is true. When SOB and Jordi Murphy come back what are Leavy and Van Der Flier going to do with themselves? Those guys are good enough to start Champions Cup games imo. The short term answer to Ulster's back row problems surely lies in Dublin, someone like Dom Ryan could reinvent himself in Belfast as well with consistent game time.

It's been clear for 4 or 5 years that this is an issue. When we lose pretty decent players to England like Griffen and others, it's a sign that we need some sort of package that might tempt them to try another Province first. I'm sure Dom. Ryan would rather stay at Leinster and fight for his place as he is a pretty senior figure there. The young guys will want to try and take their chance when it comes there rather than Ulster. You are 100% correct. JVDF or Leavy would be great here. Just what we need, (not the return of Faloon who is o.k. but not of the stature needed in the modern game sadly.) They would develop faster, we would have a backrow and who knows what the future brings. Look how well Alan O'Connor has come on here. However, perhaps those clearly talented young players with ambition think that Leinster will be better for their future in the game.. They may not want to move to what after all - while only 90 minutes up the road, is a club that has flattered to deceive for quite a few years.

At prop, ditto Furlong / Moore and whoever comes next at tight head from the burgeoning talent in the Academy. (I suppose Ross has a season or two still in him.)

A huge number of our top level schoolboy players go to University in Scotland and England and are lost to the system. That is our Achilles heel in terms of young player recruitment allied to the almost complete lack of recruitment from the clubs at underage rather than the schools. Some come through that way at underage but very few, yet I have seen some cracking players at local clubs whose coaches tear their hair out at the attitude of the likes of Clarke to them. Gilroy was told for example by Niall Malone that he would never make a pro rugby player. Chris taylor, the ex-U20 prop didn't even get an invite to the Academy. Since the players come almost exclusively from Grammar Schools and usually will have pretty decent academic options, there is always pressure from parents to go down that route. The other set of guys missing of course are those from schools who play GAA. About 50%. There is very little cross over.

We have all known this player log jam was an issue for a number of years. It is poor use of resources. Ulster, in the last few years have moved on/lost the services of Paddy McAllister, Ian Whitten and Chris Farrell either of whom would have been an asset to any of our provinces. I hope that Farrell gets trawled back home....not necessarily to Ulster but I can envisage a game with McCloskey at 12 and Farrell at 13 that would frighten the horses.

Ian Whitten was always vastly under rated. He is a bit of a brute with pace and power. (I actually played with and against his Dad who was a fearsome forward so maybe I have a bias there. His brother was also on Ulster's books as a t/h but developed leukaemia) Whitten has been a stalwart at Exeter where of course another of Ulster's lost player - Steenson - has been settled. Ulster would have fared immeasurably better with Steenson backing up or as an alternative to dHumph / iHumph than NOC. etc.

Isn't part of the brief given to Nucifora the rationalisation of player talent across the 4 teams. We do need it.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

Who would you want IBF?!

I dunno. If we copy the NFL's expansion draft system then what would happen is Leinster would be allowed protect a certain number of back row players and Ulster choose one from outside that and vice versa. If we make it a starter for each position and one alternative then I assume Leinster would choose Ruddock/SOB/Heaslip/Murphy.

So let's play that game, outside of those 4 who do you want? And which 3 midfielders do you want to protect?

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I dunno. If we copy the NFL's expansion draft system then what would happen is Leinster would be allowed protect a certain number of back row players and Ulster choose one from outside that and vice versa. If we make it a starter for each position and one alternative then I assume Leinster would choose Ruddock/SOB/Heaslip/Murphy.

So let's play that game, outside of those 4 who do you want? And which 3 midfielders do you want to protect?

Wouldn't that need to be 4 midfielders? Therefore I'd choose Leavy or Conan.
Midfielders I'd protect would be Olding. McCloskey. Cave. Arnold. Payne of course is a full back..so doesn't count....and Luke Marshall is a 10...:D

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I dunno. If we copy the NFL's expansion draft system then what would happen is Leinster would be allowed protect a certain number of back row players and Ulster choose one from outside that and vice versa. If we make it a starter for each position and one alternative then I assume Leinster would choose Ruddock/SOB/Heaslip/Murphy.

So let's play that game, outside of those 4 who do you want? And which 3 midfielders do you want to protect?

Well I'd definitely take Conan.

As for who I'd protect? Tough, very tough. Payne, Cave and McCloskey I suppose.

Although if you choose Olding I will appeal on the basis that he is also a FB!!!

awec

No way I'd give up Olding. I'd be happy to swap Luke Marshall for Conan.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

Wouldn't that need to be 4 midfielders? Therefore I'd choose Leavy or Conan.
Midfielders I'd protect would be Olding. McCloskey. Cave. Arnold. Payne of course is a full back..so doesn't count....and Luke Marshall is a 10...:D

It's hard when you have to make a decision!

Is Marshall for Conan a fair swap? I don't know.

I noticed last night Luke taking more of a leadership role in the side. I'm not sure I'd want to lose him

bilston

awec wrote: »

No way I'd give up Olding. I'd be happy to swap Luke Marshall for Conan.

The only reason I didn't pick him is because I have my doubts about his long term prospects with his knee.

Talent wise he is the best of the bunch, but that's no use if he is retired. Still I'm counting him as a FB anyway!

irishbucsfan

Unfortunately Payne and Marshall both count as midfielders for this purpose

I'm counting midfielders as inside and outside center and then one alternative, making 3. So 3 from McCloskey, Olding, Arnold, Marshall, Cave, Payne etc.

Would Ulster really want Conan of everyone available? Fantastic prospect but I would've thought Ulster would be more interested in someone capable of playing 7. It'd be a real shame to pick Conan only to discover Nick Williams has rediscovered his form and Lorcan Dow is a future Champions Cup standard 8!

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Unfortunately Payne and Marshall both count as midfielders for this purpose

I'm counting midfielders as inside and outside center and then one alternative, making 3. So 3 from McCloskey, Olding, Arnold, Marshall, Cave, Payne etc.

Would Ulster really want Conan of everyone available? Fantastic prospect but I would've thought Ulster would be more interested in someone capable of playing 7. It'd be a real shame to pick Conan only to discover Nick Williams has rediscovered his form and Lorcan Dow is a future Champions Cup standard 8!

I doubt if Ulster will renew Williams' contract next season so if we are looking to the future as we should we have to discount him. Wilson also is on his last legs. Ulster need a pair of 8s to move forward.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Unfortunately Payne and Marshall both count as midfielders for this purpose

I'm counting midfielders as inside and outside center and then one alternative, making 3. So 3 from McCloskey, Olding, Arnold, Marshall, Cave, Payne etc.

Would Ulster really want Conan of everyone available? Fantastic prospect but I would've thought Ulster would be more interested in someone capable of playing 7. It'd be a real shame to pick Conan only to discover Nick Williams has rediscovered his form and Lorcan Dow is a future Champions Cup standard 8!

I think a 6/8 is the priority to be honest especially if we have to play the manchild in the row.

awec

Don't care if Williams has the season of his life, he shouldn't get a new contract. Really we need someone who can play 6, 7 and 8 to a high standard but players like that are few and far between.

bradders90

lorcan dow and frankie taggart ulsterbackrow prospects

damianmcr

awec wrote: »

Don't care if Williams has the season of his life, he shouldn't get a new contract. Really we need someone who can play 6, 7 and 8 to a high standard but players like that are few and far between.

I very much doubt he will.

Squidgy Black

bradders90 wrote: »

lorcan dow and frankie taggart ulsterbackrow prospects

I think Dow's played 7 a couple of times, but he's definitely much better at 8. Similar to Jack Conan.

Taggart's been fairly anonymous since last years u20 world cup.

RobbieRuns

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think Dow's played 7 a couple of times, but he's definitely much better at 8. Similar to Jack Conan.

Taggart's been fairly anonymous since last years u20 world cup.

You could find Nick Timoney passing Dow out but Taggart will be a Ravens player this year and get his chance I would say.

bradders90

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think Dow's played 7 a couple of times, but he's definitely much better at 8. Similar to Jack Conan.

Taggart's been fairly anonymous since last years u20 world cup.

harsh, played with emerging ireland.

tittertatter

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think Dow's played 7 a couple of times, but he's definitely much better at 8. Similar to Jack Conan.

Taggart's been fairly anonymous since last years u20 world cup.

Dow is not close to being a 7. he is maybe a 6 but mostly an 8.

Taggart's is a 6/7 and he was chosen for emerging ireland and promoted from the ulster academy early so he must be rated well enough.

tittertatter

RobbieRuns wrote: »

You could find Nick Timoney passing Dow out but Taggart will be a Ravens player this year and get his chance I would say.

Dow is a much better player.

Timoney is going to have to really step up if he is going to make it. Only chance is at 7.

awec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOQa-476nHw

Go to 31:30 for McCloskey's try. If ye haven't seen it yet, it's worth seeing.