The New Voter - Can we keep her for the general election?

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

But none of that matters because...

See above.

Simply not true.

Into The Blue

Black Menorca wrote: »

The marriage referendum has brought out tens of thousands of new voters from the woodwork.

This has to be celebrated, well at least I celebrate it as a No voter.

Its wonderful to see genuine engagement in political affairs.

The challenge now is how can we keep their attention as we approach the General election next year?

Harnessing this mass of new energy could revolutionise the way we do politics.

Or, will they disappear again and turn their back on their civic duty?

No, there's no point in voting in a general election, as they're all just in it for the past check..

But yesterday's vote needed a large turn out from the silent majority as the usual ge voters could have swayed it to the no side.. God forbid!

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

Simply not true.

Yes, it is. Four people. And you will never influence a single one.

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

Thats the thing, in every Party there are differing views.

You join a local Branch, advocate on local issues, become a delegate to attend your Party Conference. Play your part in molding Party Policy. Bringing that policy to the People, fighting elections, local and national.

Fantastic life, making a difference and never a dull day is to be had.

Does sound interesting, maybe someday I will give it a whirl.

Anyway I don't think yesterday was about politics, in a General Election sense.
I think you are missing the point of why so many "new voters" turned out to vote yesterday.

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

Does sound interesting, maybe someday I will give it a whirl.

Anyway I don't think yesterday was about politics, in a General Election sense.
I think you are missing the point of why so many "new voters" turned out to vote yesterday.

Think of it this way. If the Labour Party wasn't in Government and didn't have Marriage Equality as a policy, yesterday would never have happened.

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

Think of it this way. If the Labour Party wasn't in Government and didn't have Marriage Equality as a policy, yesterday would never have happened.

But I presume it would have happened at some stage anyway as all four main parties supported the Bill anyway?

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

No, it really doesn't. Fiscal policy is pretty much dictated by the Troika. And the Dail is controlled by 3-4 individuals in the cabinet. Look at the last election - a political earthquake with Greena Fail being decimated. Fine Gael and Labour took up the baton and continued on exactly the same policies and same strategy, but reducing the Dail to an even greater irrelevance.

Referendums offer people a chance to have a say in how their country is run. The Dail is by design set up to ensure people do not have a say in how their country is run. This is justified by the intense contempt the political set have for the Irish voter. The Irish voter is the first to vote for same sex marriage in a referendum (by a decisive margin) but the Irish political set still view the typical Irish voter as a knuckle dragging, hairy savage who has to be beaten into civilised behaviour.

Its hardly surprising the Irish voter is not motivated to come out and vote for a political class that despises them and attempts to ensure their votes are meaningless.

martingriff

Black Menorca wrote: »

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

I would not say so yes the Dail is for 4 years but any laws 1 makes another can change them. In a referendum the people change the laws and only another referendum can change that. Referendums can have a big impact such as the referendums on Children, Divorce, Abortion, giving the Dail powers for Tribunals of investigation. Whatever way you vote in a Referendum can change the way things are not just for the lifetime of a government but for a lifetime. (was not going for the dramatics)

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

But I presume it would have happened at some stage anyway as all four main parties supported the Bill anyway?

I don't see a single FG government going near it with a barge pole, or FF for that matter.

Black Menorca

Sand wrote: »

No, it really doesn't. Fiscal policy is pretty much dictated by the Troika. And the Dail is controlled by 3-4 individuals in the cabinet. Look at the last election - a political earthquake with Greena Fail being decimated. Fine Gael and Labour took up the baton and continued on exactly the same policies and same strategy, but reducing the Dail to an even greater irrelevance.

Referendums offer people a chance to have a say in how their country is run. The Dail is by design set up to ensure people do not have a say in how their country is run. This is justified by the intense contempt the political set have for the Irish voter. The Irish voter is the first to vote for same sex marriage in a referendum (by a decisive margin) but the Irish political set still view the typical Irish voter as a knuckle dragging, hairy savage who has to be beaten into civilised behaviour.

Its hardly surprising the Irish voter is not motivated to come out and vote for a political class that despises them and attempts to ensure their votes are meaningless.

High on cynicism, low on reality.

martingriff

Black Menorca wrote: »

High on cynicism, low on reality.

Bar the Troika bit (now anyway) not much wrong with what he said

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

High on cynicism, low on reality.

High on cynicism, high on reality.

Unless you can point to some decisive shift in government policy since 2011?

The political set cant demand that average voter buys into the bull**** that voters matter whilst simultaneously ignoring and despising the voter as a knuckle dragging, backwoods savage. The core problem with democracy in Ireland is not the Irish voter, its the Irish political caste.

Black Menorca

Sand wrote: »

High on cynicism, high on reality.

Unless you can point to some decisive shift in government policy since 2011?

The political set cant demand that average voter buys into the bull**** that voters matter whilst simultaneously ignoring and despising the voter as a knuckle dragging, backwoods savage. The core problem with democracy in Ireland is not the Irish voter, its the Irish political caste.

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

So, I can join the political caste or I can be just another worthless Irish voter...and you wonder why the Irish political set cant motivate people to come out and vote for the meaningless Dail elections?

Seriously - the Dail elections ought to be empowering for the average citizen, but as you say yourself, if you're not in, you're out.

flazio

I didn't see this as getting involved in politics, I saw it as helping out my friends.

Black Menorca

flazio wrote: »

I didn't see this as getting involved in politics, I saw it as helping out my friends.

A noble cause. Fair play.

Where, in your view, is the disconnect between this referendum and the message not getting through about politics being all about helping those less fortunate and making all our lives better?

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

I'd rather not get involved in pointless and thankless endeavours.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

I'd rather not get involved in pointless and thankless endeavours.

And at the end of the day thats what it will come down to.

Those who can't be a*sed and those who will take on the challenge of their civic duty.

TommyKnocker

Black Menorca wrote: »

But your everyday life is directly affected by the votes cast in every GE.

Your vote goes toward forming an administration that sets policies on economic and social issues.

Why would you go out of your way to deny yourself your say in that formation?

People voted in the last election for FG/Lab based on their manifesto and pre-election promises. Once FG/Lab got into power their manifesto went out the window and their promises were broken. They even stated on TV in an interview that they lied to get into power.

How on earth is this kind of muppetry going to persuade new voters to take part in the GE. There simply is no difference between the main parties no matter who you vote for you just get more of the same and until there is a actual alternative to what we have now I see people continue to be disenfranchised with the GE thing.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

And at the end of the day thats what it will come down to.

Those who can't be a*sed and those who will take on the challenge of their civic duty.

Black Menorca

TommyKnocker wrote: »

People voted in the last election for FG/Lab based on their manifesto and pre-election promises. Once FG/Lab got into power their manifesto went out the window and their promises were broken. They even stated on TV in an interview that they lied to get into power.

How on earth is this kind of muppetry going to persuade new voters to take part in the GE. There simply is no difference between the main parties no matter who you vote for you just get more of the same and until there is a actual alternative to what we have now I see people continue to be disenfranchised with the GE thing.

Pull your sleeves up, take ownership of your little corner and make your presence felt.

Join an activist group, be heard, see the fruits of your labour and quit whining about the bad people in Leinster House.

TommyKnocker

Black Menorca wrote: »

Pull your sleeves up, take ownership of your little corner and make your presence felt.

Join an activist group, be heard, see the fruits of your labour and quit whining about the bad people in Leinster House.

I am sorry, but I don't see this as an option. Call me a cynic but I don't think people who actually have the best interests of the country at heart make it into positions of influence in Irish politics and I would say the same for politics in other countries. I think that any enthusiasm is driven out of them and they become just another snout in the trough.

I have seen the same thing in a semi state company I previously worked towards. Where new folks would be taken under the wing of the elders in the company and told/shown how things work. Couldn't have some enthusiastic noob actaully working and showing up the rest. People who did not "toe the line" were ostracised and the others would not talk to them or work with them. They were left to sit alone in the canteen etc. until eventually they either fell into line or left.

It is my belief, as has been said in this thread earlier, that the whole root and branch of politics in Ireland needs to radically change. Parish pump politics needs to stop. The whip system needs to go, the voting system, where my vote may actually go to help somebody I did not vote for get elected through the transfer system at the behest of the party, needs to be changed. The number of TDs in the dail needs to be significantly reduced. No TDs holding onto positions in other fields as a fall back, preventing RCGs taking up the positions. No multiple pensions and no collecting pensions before pension age. No golden handshakes for bad TDs leaving their posts. An end to the old boys club and nepotism etc. etc. etc.

Maybe in the future some of the younger generation with an abundance of enthusiasm and new ideas may take on this yoke and actually drive change in Irish politics. I do not have the energy at this time in my life to flog what I see as a dead horse, as until there are a majority of TDs who actually want a better future for all and are not just looking to line their own pockets, I don't see anything changing. After all, Turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

At this current time I would not donate a single second of my time to any of the existing parties.

Steppenwolfe

Black Menorca wrote: »

The marriage referendum has brought out tens of thousands of new voters from the woodwork.

This has to be celebrated, well at least I celebrate it as a No voter.

Its wonderful to see genuine engagement in political affairs.

The challenge now is how can we keep their attention as we approach the General election next year?

Harnessing this mass of new energy could revolutionise the way we do politics.

Or, will they disappear again and turn their back on their civic duty?

Not a chance. I presume you mean new voters who have not bothererd to engage before now. If they haven't voted before now they don't understand what politics is. Some don't even realise their vote was a political act. Some saw it as cool to be part of a popular bandwagon. Most will go back to their little lives oblivious to what's going on politically. They will carry on letting others make the decisions that affect every aspect of their lives.

lucernarian

Black Menorca wrote: »

The spoiled brat mentality. They want it handed to them on a plate.

Spoiled brat mentality?! I hate how people seem to apply that as though it's only young people who are guilty of it.

symbolic

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

They will carry on letting others make the decisions that affect every aspect of their lives.

Well who ever is making the decisions for my life is doing a fantastic job. Long may it continue

Black Menorca

lucernarian wrote: »

Spoiled brat mentality?! I hate how people seem to apply that as though it's only young people who are guilty of it.

True, the mentality can be shown by people of all ages.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

True, the mentality can be shown by people of all ages.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

A classic example.

Saipanne

If getting involved in grassroot politics means being surrounded by the smugeratti you can understand why most people avoid it.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

If getting involved in grassroot politics means being surrounded by the smugeratti you can understand why most people avoid it.

Make up any excuse you like not to bother getting involved. Your choice.