Silage thread

frazzledhome

selectamatic wrote: »

For a number of reasons but yes weather is most certainly one of them (Not all the time but in general). My list of reasons in order of importance would be
1.Soil type and quality and trafficability.
2.Length of growing season (could be considered weather)
3.Weather (amounts of rainfall, mean soil temps and amounts of sunshine)
4.History of superior infrastructure (silage slabs, sheds yards etc..)
5.Average farm size and average contracting costs.

While weather is a subjective difference it really is quite a vast difference at times. Around here the number of fine days in July could be counted on one hand where as the midlands and southeast had a much easier time of it, that said it was by no means a scorcher down there but still it certainly wasn't as bad as the north west. Also this year saw a very late arrival of spring growth in the north west with the result that many first cuts simply weren't ready around the usual time (1st cut during the leaving cert is the general rule of thumb). I wouldn't take this as a oh farming in the west is tougher/lends itself to be less profitable type of post but it is most certainly different and so should be approached differently. If a man was thinking of four cuts around here he'd want to be planning on taking the 4th one exceptionally late on in the year as the growth simply doesn't get going quick enough around here. Also we have yet to have a problem with drought something that can make farming harder in the south east in prolonged dry periods during summers (for example the summer of 2013).

Will accept some if the above. How is it when I visited a Boardsie on west coast, couldn't be more west. Atlantic was his boundary on one side. He had silage made in May, beautiful aftergrass on farm and lots of reseeding done. He also had a farm road through the middle of the farm.

Yes his land wasn't as good as mine but his management was more than compensating.

selectamatic

If it was a coastal region then the heat retention of the sea can make a big difference to winter weather conditions so the growing system could in theory be longer in such a scenario.
However what your saying is true but while it's is most certainly possible to run a farm to its upmost capacity in the west i.e regular reseeding and 3 cuts a year, the question of profitability will very much come into play. As a small suckler farmer the margins simply aren't there to make such things viable therefore it makes more sense from an economic point of view to keep costs to a very minimum as with suckler farming you have to wait much longer to see a return on your investment.

20silkcut

Yes especially with the current fodder market .
I remember in the spring of 2013 farmers being advised to put out 100 units of P and K to the acre.
Such advice is madness now in 2015.
With bales of hay and silage under €20

Greengrass1

20silkcut wrote: »

Yes especially with the current fodder market .
I remember in the spring of 2013 farmers being advised to put out 100 units of P and K to the acre.
Such advice is madness now in 2015.
With bales of hay and silage under €20

Looking after land is no one.
Don't feed it this yr your going to regret it next yr.
Did it for yrs here just spreading bare minimum to keep costs low but we ended up in a worse situation.
Majority farmers might only need to spread 30 units of k and 10 of P for a cut of silage with rest coming from slurry.

Not that awfully dear if you get greater quality and yield

Farmer Pudsey

20silkcut wrote: »

Yes especially with the current fodder market .
I remember in the spring of 2013 farmers being advised to put out 100 units of P and K to the acre.
Such advice is madness now in 2015.
With bales of hay and silage under €20

A crop of first cut silage takes 100 units of K and 30 units of P and 100 units of N. You are only fooling yourself if you think you will grow it with less. If you reduce the N all that happens is you delay cutting date. Reducing P&K will reduce crop and deplete land of these nutrients over time.

Last year a lad I know that has poor quality land wanted second cut silage, the advice he was getting was depending on weather to go with 2 bags of urea or 3 bags of CAN. He had been disappointed with his first cut. On talking he was putting out about 1500 gallons of slurry and cut sward for first cut for last 5-6 years.

After I explained about P&K to him and he had slurry on hand I got him to go with 3K gallons of slurry. That evening after he spread he got a few showers and it washed the slurry in. He gave it a bag of CAN to the acre. He told a few lads what he had done and was told he would get no crop.

It was very leafy before cutting I think he left it 7-8 weeks. He got 7-8 bales to the acre he could not believe. He said to me after that all the local lads taught he get only 4-5 to the acre.

Buying lucky bags and hay at 20/bale and less may seem value. However if you have to supplement it with high levels of ration it works out more expensive that good silage you make yourself. The only advantage of buying silage as far as I can see is the value of the p&K in the slurry from it..

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A crop of first cut silage takes 100 units of K and 30 units of P and 100 units of N. You are only fooling yourself if you think you will grow it with less. If you reduce the N all that happens is you delay cutting date. Reducing P&K will reduce crop and deplete land of these nutrients over time.

Last year a lad I know that has poor quality land wanted second cut silage, the advice he was getting was depending on weather to go with 2 bags of urea or 3 bags of CAN. He had been disappointed with his first cut. On talking he was putting out about 1500 gallons of slurry and cut sward for first cut for last 5-6 years.

After I explained about P&K to him and he had slurry on hand I got him to go with 3K gallons of slurry. That evening after he spread he got a few showers and it washed the slurry in. He gave it a bag of CAN to the acre. He told a few lads what he had done and was told he would get no crop.

It was very leafy before cutting I think he left it 7-8 weeks. He got 7-8 bales to the acre he could not believe. He said to me after that all the local lads taught he get only 4-5 to the acre.

Buying lucky bags and hay at 20/bale and less may seem value. However if you have to supplement it with high levels of ration it works out more expensive that good silage you make yourself. The only advantage of buying silage as far as I can see is the value of the p&K in the slurry from it..

I'd agree with most of that Pudsey but you don't need 100units of N. All you are doing is delaying cutting date. 85 is more than enough. Haven't spread more than this for years. Get the crop off after six weeks, don't mow too low, fast regrowth and you're halfway to your second cut or grazing aftergrass while the muppets who think yield is something to aim for are still debating with themselves whether they've allowed enough good grass turn to $hit to make the contractor earn his money. This holds no matter where you are farming. If you don't aim for it you have no hope of achieving it. Weather can make a mockery of all plans but you have to put yourself in position to get it right if the weather cooperates.

20silkcut

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Looking after land is no one.
Don't feed it this yr your going to regret it next yr.
Did it for yrs here just spreading bare minimum to keep costs low but we ended up in a worse situation.
Majority farmers might only need to spread 30 units of k and 10 of P for a cut of silage with rest coming from slurry.

Not that awfully dear if you get greater quality and yield

Don't cut silage off it if it's not needed.
Silage is what really depletes land.

It's cheaper to buy in silage at the moment.

Everyone is still haunted by the spring of 2013 overproducing silage.

selectamatic

There appears to be two extremes going on here really and both have merits/drawbacks depending on other variables, I can only debate relating directly to my own personal situation and this is also true for a man making a couple of thousand bales or a pit equivalent in the midlands/south east.
A suckler farmer in the North Roscommon mayo boarder does not really need 3 cuts of silage nor does it make economic sense to persue such a yield. In general this area is home to some of the worst land in the country and so chasing after yields and methods that apply to far superior land is a false economy. There is no debate which method is better for quality but this isn't the issue. Well looked after fields with an average amount of fertilizer and a nice spread of slurry/muck will produce 2 cuts just grand. For a suckler farmer who rears for factory it's is far less strenuous on funds to finish on grass with/without supplements during the spring/summer rather than housing and feeding ad lib Thus the finest quality silage isn't needed, it is for dairy and more intensive operations but following dairying methods will land many a suckler farmer in economic hot water pretty lively. I'm a part time farmer and thankfully my job lends itself well to this (primary school teacher). You could argue I'm a hobby farmer but as it stands when all is done and dusted my pastime/work leaves me with a few grand profit nothing to quit the day job over but still a welcome touch at the at the end of the day. Making money on less than 70 acres with a suckler herd isn't easy in the north west but as it stands I feel I'm doing reasonably well out of it. Buying bales of silage at €20 doesn't equate to lucky bags in my opinion, if you see the crop standing and know the make of the man selling then there really is little to worry about. If I was to rush out renting land for meadow I'd be lucky to equal that price per bale when all is said and done. In a case like 2013 that will differ but that said we are not dependent on bought/rented silage since we cut back on stocking levels in persuit of herd improvement and since then we've actually seen profits rising so the proof is in the pudding as they say. This won't work on bigger operations in various parts of the country but as it stands in my current situation it is working and when the state of small scale suckler beef farming in Ireland is taken into account you could argue that it is working very well indeed.

CloughCasey1

I have to say for a dry stock operation I have seen the benifits of spending money to make money. I have 9acres kindly let to me from FIL fenced into 1 acre paddocks. I have been farming for 3 years. By next Tuesday it will all have been re-seeded. I am able to keep 9 cattle rotated per 4 paddocks from march to July and rear 9calves on the rest then from july can work 18 on five paddocks with the reared November/December calves and light weanings . I am aiming to have all but 2 acres working off a white clover system for N. The 5 acres have high clover only have got one bag of 18-6-12 and one bag 10-10-20 (mainly to build p&k) since april and got 40N before that. The other reseed on the 2 acres has no clover as don't want to bloat calves which are reared on that field and has got two bags of pasture sward since april to keep grass going. The FIL has the other 37 acres and doesn't spend money on fert bar bag of pasture sward in spring and I do manure on silage ground which covers cost of silage for him from me and pease of mind that crop will be decent. Still have to plague him to cut it after 9 weeks.he will have approx 30 animals at a time over his piece and is always slack on grass. He is slowly starting to see the benifit of the freah grass and the N imput of clover and he could surely improve his output by 40% which would pay for itself in a short time. I have to agree with the dairy boys on all they are saying about getting quality right. If you don't mind spraying docks etc with a knapsack on suckler/dry stock setup then clover will work on the N for you over the summer if a good grass management plan is in place.

Bullocks

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

I have to say for a dry stock operation I have seen the benifits of spending money to make money. I have 9acres kindly let to me from FIL fenced into 1 acre paddocks. I have been farming for 3 years. By next Tuesday it will all have been re-seeded. I am able to keep 9 cattle rotated per 4 paddocks from march to July and rear 9calves on the rest then from july can work 18 on five paddocks with the reared November/December calves and light weanings . I am aiming to have all but 2 acres working off a white clover system for N. The 5 acres have high clover only have got one bag of 18-6-12 and one bag 10-10-20 (mainly to build p&k) since april and got 40N before that. The other reseed on the 2 acres has no clover as don't want to bloat calves which are reared on that field and has got two bags of pasture sward since april to keep grass going. The FIL has the other 37 acres and doesn't spend money on fert bar bag of pasture sward in spring and I do manure on silage ground which covers cost of silage for him from me and pease of mind that crop will be decent. Still have to plague him to cut it after 9 weeks.he will have approx 30 animals at a time over his piece and is always slack on grass. He is slowly starting to see the benifit of the freah grass and the N imput of clover and he could surely improve his output by 40% which would pay for itself in a short time. I have to agree with the dairy boys on all they are saying about getting quality right. If you don't mind spraying docks etc with a knapsack on suckler/dry stock setup then clover will work on the N for you over the summer if a good grass management plan is in place.

The old boys are sick of P&K , we got billed for 3 ton of 18-6-12 earlier this year so he went to query it . He told the one in the office he hadn't spread it in15 years and she wouldn't believe him , sure i can only afford nitrogen since I went suckling he said!
Funny enough every year he is saying that the grass is getting worse and we need to reseed , still no talk of bring up soil indexes though ,
There's afew acres beside the house that i always keep right with fert , gran lime and spray as a contrast . We get a way more grazing out of it and its always alot more lush looking than what we have over the wall , between extra grazing and better thrive the few bags of fert and drop of spray easily pay for themselves .

frazzledhome

Bullocks wrote: »

The old boys are sick of P&K , we got billed for 3 ton of 18-6-12 earlier this year so he went to query it . He told the one in the office he hadn't spread it in15 years and she wouldn't believe him , sure i can only afford nitrogen since I went suckling he said!
Funny enough every year he is saying that the grass is getting worse and we need to reseed , still no talk of bring up soil indexes though ,
There's afew acres beside the house that i always keep right with fert , gran lime and spray as a contrast . We get a way more grazing out of it and its always alot more lush looking than what we have over the wall , between extra grazing and better thrive the few bags of fert and drop of spray easily pay for themselves .

There's nothing to grow tonnes of grass like a high SR and a healthy level of debt

Blackgrass

Bullocks wrote: »

The old boys are sick of P&K , we got billed for 3 ton of 18-6-12 earlier this year so he went to query it . He told the one in the office he hadn't spread it in15 years and she wouldn't believe him , sure i can only afford nitrogen since I went suckling he said!
Funny enough every year he is saying that the grass is getting worse and we need to reseed , still no talk of bring up soil indexes though ,
There's afew acres beside the house that i always keep right with fert , gran lime and spray as a contrast . We get a way more grazing out of it and its always alot more lush looking than what we have over the wall , between extra grazing and better thrive the few bags of fert and drop of spray easily pay for themselves .

There's alot of lads who don't understand what it takes to grow grass/anything and the actual science behind it and are possibly scared to say it i'd reckon. Have found via a small discussion group here of 20 even for simple things to some you'll have 5or6 in the same boat. I wonder if Teagasc did some groups for guys to get together and be comfortable to ask these questions and go from there they might stop and listen to the more technical stuff?
Hell the uncle/old man weren't let go to secondary school way back in the day and ended up learning from their 15years younger sister who was!

Bullocks

frazzledhome wrote: »

There's nothing to grow tonnes of grass like a high SR and a healthy level of debt

Not sure how applicable that is to sucklers , there's no healthy debt with them hoors

Farmer Pudsey

Bullocks wrote: »

The old boys are sick of P&K , we got billed for 3 ton of 18-6-12 earlier this year so he went to query it . He told the one in the office he hadn't spread it in15 years and she wouldn't believe him , sure i can only afford nitrogen since I went suckling he said!
Funny enough every year he is saying that the grass is getting worse and we need to reseed , still no talk of bring up soil indexes though ,
There's afew acres beside the house that i always keep right with fert , gran lime and spray as a contrast . We get a way more grazing out of it and its always alot more lush looking than what we have over the wall , between extra grazing and better thrive the few bags of fert and drop of spray easily pay for themselves .

Too many think reseeding is the answer. It is a waste of time if you do not get your fertility and ph right. As well you should clean paddocks a year or two before reseeding. Even glyphosate (rounduo) finds it hard to kill thgose docks with the deeps roots. If I had the choice in spending 200 euro/acre on reseeding and fertility I get fertility right first.

selectamatic

Bullocks wrote: »

Not sure how applicable that is to sucklers , there's no healthy debt with them hoors

Unless of course ya have a ball of a single farm payment sadly this isn't applicable to me

Bullocks

selectamatic wrote: »

Unless of course ya have a ball of a single farm payment sadly this isn't applicable to me

Ah sure i see you're west of the Shannon , you must be getting a big SFP . I was talking to a lad the last that reckoned we got extra SFP for talking irish

Bullocks

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Too many think reseeding is the answer. It is a waste of time if you do not get your fertility and ph right. As well you should clean paddocks a year or two before reseeding. Even glyphosate (rounduo) finds it hard to kill thgose docks with the deeps roots. If I had the choice in spending 200 euro/acre on reseeding and fertility I get fertility right first.

I'm on the same page as you there Pudsey

selectamatic

Bullocks wrote: »

Ah sure i see you're west of the Shannon , you must be getting a big SFP . I was talking to a lad the last that reckoned we got extra SFP for talking irish

Don't forget all that natural Irish vegetation we have , rushes and heather need to be protected for the good of our heritage :P

Limestone Cowboy

Baled my silage Saturday that was cut Wednesday evening, Tedder Thursday and raked on Friday. Averaged 4.5 bales to the acre of lovely dry leafy stuff. What kinda dm and dmd would you be expecting with this. Old sward too, was never reseeded in my lifetime but fairly clean at the same time.

CloughCasey1

Bullocks wrote: »

I'm on the same page as you there Pudsey

+2 in my case it was so bad the FIL said your gettinh some grand fields there. I took walls from all them 20 yrs ago. I said did ya reseed it all then? Not at all sure it was a good summer and it soon grew in again.

I said

When the land dries out lol

bogman_bass

Stan should be at in in a months time

vincenzolorenzo

In fairness this is a thread resurrection to beat all thread resurrections! :pac:

blue5000

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

In fairness this is a thread resurrection to beat all thread resurrections! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Kovu locked a 6 yr old thread there recently that someone resurrected

Kovu

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

In fairness this is a thread resurrection to beat all thread resurrections! :pac:

Happens more often than you think. If it's a question/problem thread that had a time constraint (eg my cow is sick, help!) then it's closed straight off the bat. If it's bumped because of a similar issue to the OP, meh, it depends on how long it's been zombified for.
If it differentiates enough to warrant it's own thread, I split it out of the zombie thread and create a new one. Otherwise I merge into existing threads, like I've done now.

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? :D:D

blue5000 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Kovu locked a 6 yr old thread there recently that someone resurrected

Your memory is top notch!:)