Identity Ireland

bajer101

conditioned games wrote: »

We live in the here and now that is not going to happen for another few years. Firstly the environment has to such that having the Euro is so unappealing that going back to our own currency is the better option. The world has been fighting deflation since 2008 by creating massive amounts of debt and large currency creation.

Every debt the ECB loans is new currency that goes into circulation. Eventually inflation will defeat deflation in about 2 years time where the Euro will quickly lose its value. Only then will a return to the Punt will become more popular.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt? I'll give you a bit of leeway here and give you five years to implement this plan. So, this day in five years time, Ireland exits the Eurozone and become this exalted sovereign nation with its own currency. Tell me how you think this new utopia will be. Here's a clue - Greece stared down the barrel of that gun and didn't fancy it and they don't benefit from the Euro anywhere near as much as we do. No Euro = no Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Ebay, Paypal, Apple or any of the big pharmas.

conditioned games

bajer101 wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah - what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt? I'll give you a bit of leeway here and give you five years to implement this plan. So, this day in five years time, Ireland exits the Eurozone and become this exalted sovereign nation with its own currency. Tell me how you think this new utopia will be. Here's a clue - Greece stared down the barrel of that gun and didn't fancy it and they don't benefit from the Euro anywhere near as much as we do. No Euro = no Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Ebay, Paypal, Apple or any of the big pharmas.

How would not having the Euro mean not having the above companies? Remember it was only 2002 when we converted to the Euro, Apple, Amazon and the big pharmas were already here. Britain has done well without it. Eventually we will return to our own currency to suit our economic policies which includes managing our own interest rates which we needed to when the property bubble was over heating between 04 and 06. In a way Identity Ireland is ahead of its time.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

Eventually we will return to our own currency to suit our economic policies which includes managing our own interest rates which we needed to when the property bubble was over heating between 04 and 06.

Yes, the government was utterly desperate to damp down the property bubble between '04 and '06, but there was nothing - literally nothing whatsoever - that it could possibly have done about it other than to set interest rates.

(The above was dripping with sarcasm, in case it passed you by.)

conditioned games

It's not the government's job to set interest rates that is done by the Central Bank who should remain independent. They look at key economic indicators in the economy when making their decisions. The European Central Bank sets ireland's interest rates regardless of what our needs are because we are part of the Euro for now.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It's not the government's job to set interest rates that is done by the Central Bank who should remain independent. They look at key economic indicators in the economy when making their decisions. The European Central Bank sets ireland's interest rates regardless of what our needs are because we are part of the Euro for now.

And the government's job is to set fiscal policy. Can you list all the fiscal policy measures the government took between '04 and '06 in a frantic attempt to damp down the property bubble?

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

And the government's job is to set fiscal policy. Can you list all the fiscal policy measures the government took between '04 and '06 in a frantic attempt to damp down the property bubble?

So your agreeing Ireland should have its own currency, now you want to discuss fiscal policies?

spaceylou

Having listened to their leader on Newstalk this morning, I am not sure even they know (or think they know) what would happen if we returned to the punt and withdrew from the EU.

He wanted to lower taxes for low income earners (fairly standard pre-election promise); marginally raise taxes in the short-term for high earners; build some primary industry so that we would have a stronger economic base - get more money from our fisheries, oil reserves etc to fund state expenditure and tax cuts ; create employment (unsurprisingly no specifics there) - there was more but he was so confused it was getting hard to follow - in short it seemed like a mixture of embracing capitalism with 'small government' and no welfare state (except for some bits for Irish people who've contributed to the tax system) and isolationism.

I feel that the kids he teaches in primary school might come up with a more coherent economic plan.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jobbridge4life

spaceylou wrote: »

Having listened to their leader on Newstalk this morning, I am not sure even they know (or think they know) what would happen if we returned to the punt and withdrew from the EU.

He wanted to lower taxes for low income earners (fairly standard pre-election promise); marginally raise taxes in the short-term for high earners; build some primary industry so that we would have a stronger economic base - get more money from our fisheries, oil reserves etc to fund state expenditure and tax cuts ; create employment (unsurprisingly no specifics there) - there was more but he was so confused it was getting hard to follow - in short it seemed like a mixture of embracing capitalism with 'small government' and no welfare state (except for some bits for Irish people who've contributed to the tax system) and isolationism.

I feel that the kids he teaches in primary school might come up with a more coherent economic plan.

that is all just nationalistic right wing claptrap. Poorly thought out claptrap at that.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It'll be alright Bravo when lost its ok to cry foul and run away, I understand.

Doubling down, eh? Fine. Can you quote the post of mine in which I agree that Ireland should have its own currency?

jobbridge4life

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

its a bit nationalist and at the same time socialist alright.

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

Doubling down, eh? Fine. Can you quote the post of mine in which I agree that Ireland should have its own currency?

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

seamus

These guys were going for the hard propaganda today, but fell at the last post. They claim a 25% increase in membership since yesterday. But then made the rookie mistake of telling us that there were 115 members before that increase.

I'd say Fine Gael are sh1tting themselves

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

You're the one arguing that we would be better off as an island of a few million than as an integral part of a half-billion-strong union. I think it's up to you to make the case for how we would be better off pursuing an isolationist course.

jobbridge4life

conditioned games wrote: »

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

~You are the one advocating a change to the status quo if it is something you believe in then you ought to be able to articulate why making such a significant move would be in our best interests. Unless you are proposing it for the nationalists shizzles and giggles.

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

You're the one arguing that we would be better off as an island of a few million than as an integral part of a half-billion-strong union. I think it's up to you to make the case for how we would be better off pursuing an isolationist course.

Wrong again I said we would be better having our own currency which we had pre 2002. You appear to be confusing been part of the European Union with the Euro exchange rate. Britain is a member of one while we are a member of both.

Galwayguy35

We need a party that is prepared to tackle the immigration question and not be afraid to mention it in case the bleeding heart liberals start accusing them of being the Irish version of the KKK.

Such a party also needs sound economic policies though, and unfortunately it's not this lot.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

Wrong again I said we would be better having our own currency which we had pre 2002. You appear to be confusing been part of the European Union with the Euro exchange rate.

Perhaps you could point me to that part of the treaties that allows us to relinquish the Euro while remaining in the EU.

Chips Lovell

As noted by Nodin on another thread, they're also promising to get tough on Educate Together

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

Perhaps you could point me to that part of the treaties that allows us to relinquish the Euro while remaining in the EU.

Being part of the Euro exchange currency and availing of the free trade restrictions of the European Union are separate which the UK, Swiss, Norway and Denmark currently do. Greece were offered to leave the Euro but stay within the EU which Schauble offered but they said no. That was a mistake on their behalf, now they are not in control of their own destiny. So yes it is possible to leave the Euro and remain part of the EU.

PopePalpatine

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

As noted by Nodin on another thread, they're also promising to get tough on Educate Together

Wow, I really was right about them aiming for the No voters from the marriage equality referendum.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

Being part of the Euro exchange currency and availing of the free trade restrictions of the European Union are separate which the UK, Swiss, Norway and Denmark currently do. Greece were offered to leave the Euro but stay within the EU which Schauble offered but they said no. That was a mistake on their behalf, now they are not in control of their own destiny. So yes it is possible to leave the Euro and remain part of the EU.

That's nice. Still waiting for a reference to the treaties.

K-9

Mod:

Off topic, personal and beneath the standard expected replies deleted.

FreudianSlippers

I don't really have the patience to respond to the majority of that post, but...

conditioned games wrote: »

Greece were offered to leave the Euro but stay within the EU which Schauble offered but they said no.

No they weren't offered that.

conditioned games

There are many articles about the 50 billion Schauble offered Greece to leave the Euro such as the below. The Euro is not a prison if a country wants to leave it can. http://heardineurope.blogactiv.eu/2015/07/20/schauble-was-ready-to-give-greece-e50-billion-to-quit-the-euro/

FreudianSlippers

conditioned games wrote: »

There are many articles about the 50 billion Schauble offered Greece to leave the Euro such as the below. The Euro is not a prison if a country wants to leave it can. http://heardineurope.blogactiv.eu/2015/07/20/schauble-was-ready-to-give-greece-e50-billion-to-quit-the-euro/

Your claim was that they could leave the EZ and remain in the EU - there is currently no legal framework to allow for such an event, nor could there be one without significant changes to the TEFU, requiring a referendum in inter alia Ireland.

Wildlife Actor

The thing is these guys will model themselves on UKIP, but unlike UKIP, if they get 7 or 8% of the votes (or, god forbid, 13%), they'll get a seat or two because of the pr system.

Also it will be interesting to see how SF will take to a party more nationalist than themselves.

keithclancy

Vague policy on Immigration that seems to be around maintaining 'Irishness' or whatever they define it as.

Stinks of another Dutch PVV or UKIP

The whole crux of their argument is blaming Africans or any white person that sounds like Borat for lack of jobs in the Construction and Services Sector.

Waiting for them to tie themselves in knots.

Gotta love this one:

Roll out high speed broadband nationwide

Yeah .. makes total sense ... with Ireland's huge population density and all.

Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

They claim a 25% increase in membership since yesterday. But then made the rookie mistake of telling us that there were 115 members before that increase.

144 members ? Time for a split!