Identity Ireland

Crann na Beatha

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PopePalpatine

Well, there's probably at least 25% of the electorate who will vote against the marriage equality referendum, I think they have a target market amongst them.

Tabnabs

Again another wasted opportunity. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, that's the party Ireland is crying out for.

Chips Lovell

Never heard of them until this morning when they appeared on Morning Ireland in a piece about canvassing in Carlow/Kilkenny.

BoJack Horseman

Tabnabs wrote: »

Again another wasted opportunity. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, that's the party Ireland is crying out for.

We had that.
They were called the Progressive Democrats.
The Irish electorate said 'no thanks'.

There seems to be a handful of these small ultra-nationalist groups springing up on Facebook.

Thanks Zuckerberg!

johnnyskeleton

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

We had that.
They were called the Progressive Democrats.
The Irish electorate said 'no thanks'.

I'm not sure how fiscally conservative or socially liberal they were. The HSE under Mary Harney grew into a massive millstone around the taxpayer's neck, Tom Parlon was the parish pump pork-barreller par excellence, Micheal McDowell's views on immigration were conservative, to say the least.

My view on the PDs is that although they were liberal on the outside but FF on the inside. The official line is that the reason for their demise is that Irish politics changed because of them and their liberal views were adopted by the other parties making them redundant. I think it is fairer to say that they had become more like the other parties than the other parties had become like them.

There seems to be a handful of these small ultra-nationalist groups springing up on Facebook.

Thanks Zuckerberg!

Which again begs the question why aren't there more small and active Liberal/Libertarian etc parties on Facebook? Theres the Libertarian Party of Ireland, but there hasn't been a post on their Facebook since 2012.

It is curious that the ultra nationalists can do it but the sensible fiscal conservatives / social liberals can't do it.

oscarBravo

A complete return of sovereignty to Ireland from the E.U.

It's amazing how many people fail to realise that sovereignty isn't an absolute religious principle; it's a currency to be spent as required.

Sovereignty, in an absolute sense, means "we will never allow any other country to have any say in how we run our affairs". In other words, "we will never enter into any binding treaties or trade agreements with conditions attached".

Now, unless you're North Korea (and probably not even then), that's a logical impossibility. So when people start talking about a "complete return of sovereignty", what they actually mean is "a different balance of national interests", but phrased to appeal to the sentiment that foreigners should have no say in how we run the country: the little-Irelander mentality, if you will.

Depressingly, there will always be an audience for that sort of simple-mindedness. Happily, it never seems to amount to anything of substance.

Robert McGrath

Tabnabs wrote: »

Again another wasted opportunity. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, that's the party Ireland is crying out for.

Didn't we have them and they were called the PDs?

Sorry, BoJack beat me to it.

Crann na Beatha

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Nodin

Tabnabs wrote: »

Again another wasted opportunity. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, that's the party Ireland is crying out for.

Tbh, I'm not sure it is.

_Kaiser_

I'm not sure on their "return to the Punt" idea (it depends on what the UK does next, and what kind of (trade) relationship we could maintain with Europe in such a scenario given that we export pretty much everything - including our skills and people) and the rest in that section is pretty populist (what are these "primary industries" they want to build up - or are we all to become farmers again?), but certainly I'd support the idea of rebooting Europe to a more EEC-style setup. As a trade body it worked pretty well, but when they started getting political aspirations the wheels started falling off IMO. There's too many conflicting national agendas, economic differences and cultural incompatibilities for the "one size fits all" approach that has been implemented so far to ever work. Plus, while politicians and big business may love the idea of a Federal Europe, the rise of hard-leaning/extremist parties on both sides would suggest that average Joe citizen has other ideas!

I'd also have no problem with the idea of regaining more control over our immigration policies. As the thread in AH shows, the liberal do-gooder agenda (coupled with our Irish need to be "liked" by everyone) means that we've been exposed to taking on a wealth of problems we're ill-equipped to deal with (as we can see in the UK in the last few years). By all means if you come here to work (and have useful skills), contribute and integrate into your host country/community then welcome!! - but if you're here as an easy way to Europe/citizenship, expect the country to acquiesce to your every whim, and will be relying on the State to feed, clothe and house you from Day 1, then sorry.. back where you came from! We have more than enough social and economic issues of our own, and enough (genuine) cases of citizens needing help that they're not getting without taking on everyone else's problems as well!

Their thoughts on Law and Order are pretty much common sense except that I'd start with dissolving AGS and rebuilding it from the ground up. Stuff like the Shatter/Calinan debacle, the mess in Donegal, evidence money going missing from stations, combined with the day-to-day "it depends who you get" attitude to policing say to me that the force as it is is beyond saving and needs to go.

FreudianSlippers

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Didn't we have them and they were called the PDs?

Sorry, BoJack beat me to it.

I voted for the PDs on this basis and, as has been pointed out above, they were less fiscally conservative than FF.

bajer101

Looks like these guy(s) have done a rebrand and are now calling themselves Identity Ireland - AitheantasEire.

http://identityireland.org/

Agent Smith

bajer101 wrote: »

Looks like these guy(s) have done a rebrand and are now calling themselves Identity Ireland - AitheantasEire.

http://identityireland.org/

Surprised they didnt go with identityireland.irish



Its currently available for anyone to buy and host what they want.


Anyone.... :pac:

jobbridge4life

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

We had that.
They were called the Progressive Democrats.
The Irish electorate said 'no thanks'.

We didn't really because the PD's were not actually liberal. They didn't support gay marriage, they didn't as a party have a position on abortion...

In addition the Irish electorate didn't so much say 'no thanks' as they just continued with the same thing they do always and will do again and that is punish the smaller party in a coalition.

tricky D

Agent Smith wrote: »

Surprised they didnt go with identityireland.irish



Its currently available for anyone to buy and host what they want.


Anyone.... :pac:

Their American host probably doesn't offer .irish

And that folks, is what they mean by investing in Ireland:rolleyes:

oscarBravo

Well, that escalated quickly...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/launch-of-controversial-right-wing-political-party-descends-into-chaos-in-dublin-31396398.html

BoJack Horseman

oscarBravo wrote: »

Well, that escalated quickly...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/launch-of-controversial-right-wing-political-party-descends-into-chaos-in-dublin-31396398.html

Happened last time too.

Dissenting opinions will not go unimpeded.

Eric Cartman

when the 'anti racists' show up to your political launch, you know your on the money with immigration.

I would agree with their immigration policies, their economics are too left for me to touch though.

Nodin

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Happened last time too.

Dissenting opinions will not go unimpeded.

That would seem to be more their attitude.

"Zero tolerance approach towards demands to alter national life, culture and traditions to accommodate minority held beliefs and cultures."
http://identityireland.org/immigration/

So that's the atheists, protestants, Jews, homosexuals, muslims and all put in their place.

jobbridge4life

Nodin wrote: »

That would seem to be more their attitude.

"Zero tolerance approach towards demands to alter national life, culture and traditions to accommodate minority held beliefs and cultures."
http://identityireland.org/immigration/

So that's the atheists, protestants, Jews, homosexuals, muslims and all put in their place.

THat is actually quite frightening. Hoping the Irish folk are too nonchalant to vote in any large degree for such a party.

Nodin

jobbridge4life wrote: »

THat is actually quite frightening. Hoping the Irish folk are too nonchalant to vote in any large degree for such a party.

One can never rule out any possibility entirely, but the fact is that no party standing on such a platform has been elected to any office in the last 30 or 40 years (to the best of my knowledge).

jobbridge4life

Nodin wrote: »

One can never rule out any possibility entirely, but the fact is that no party standing on such a platform has been elected to any office in the last 30 or 40 years (to the best of my knowledge).

Fingers crossed. That young guy has the dead-eyed look of a 'fashionista' in my opinion.

conditioned games

They get my vote on their immigration policy. A party like them would do very well in Ireland as the world heads into a prolonged depression from the busting of the 50 year bond bubble. The Euro was doomed to failure from the beginning, all is left now is the blame game. I hope they try place a canaditate in every electorate, the early days should involve building up its profile.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

The Euro was doomed to failure from the beginning, all is left now is the blame game.

I've been reading confident predictions that the Euro is only weeks from collapse for the better part of a decade. It's a bit like waiting for the rapture.

Any day now...

bajer101

conditioned games wrote: »

They get my vote on their immigration policy. A party like them would do very well in Ireland as the world heads into a prolonged depression from the busting of the 50 year bond bubble. The Euro was doomed to failure from the beginning, all is left now is the blame game. I hope they try place a canaditate in every electorate, the early days should involve building up its profile.

Tell me more about this bond bubble and about how the Euro has failed. Tell me what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt tomorrow.

jobbridge4life

conditioned games wrote: »

They get my vote on their immigration policy. A party like them would do very well in Ireland as the world heads into a prolonged depression from the busting of the 50 year bond bubble. The Euro was doomed to failure from the beginning, all is left now is the blame game. I hope they try place a canaditate in every electorate, the early days should involve building up its profile.

You know you are right and what is really weird given that your right is that the overwhelming majority of individuals who believe this 100% certified fact are not particularly financially successful and even more weirdly those that disagree with again this 100% certified fact most strongly tend to be those who are very successful and have traded in global markets for years (including those years not to long ago when every nation in Europe had its own currency). How WEIRD is that?

conditioned games

Countries sharing the same currency but can create their own debt doesn't work long term. As a country's debt to gdp gets more out of control their currency should fall in value which is why the ECB had to step in and buy government bonds of the debtor nations in Europe. It cannot go on forever. A same currency is only workable if all those countries experience same economic conditions and their economic polices such as direct taxation and spending is in line.

mynamejeff

Hmmmm seems very vague on a lot of stuff

might have done well in rural areas if it wasn't for the old iron clad traditionalist parties out their. People been voting the same way in some places since the civil war.

the law and order stance might appeal to some people but the rest is nonsense.

might hurt the shinners and independents but a blip on the political landscape is all

bajer101

conditioned games wrote: »

Countries sharing the same currency but can create their own debt doesn't work long term. As a country's debt to gdp gets more out of control their currency should fall in value which is why the ECB had to step in and buy government bonds of the debtor nations in Europe. It cannot go on forever. A same currency is only workable if all those countries experience same economic conditions and their economic polices such as direct taxation and spending is in line.

I'll ask you again, what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt tomorrow?

conditioned games

bajer101 wrote: »

I'll ask you again, what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt tomorrow?

We live in the here and now that is not going to happen for another few years. Firstly the environment has to such that having the Euro is so unappealing that going back to our own currency is the better option. The world has been fighting deflation since 2008 by creating massive amounts of debt and large currency creation.

Every debt the ECB loans is new currency that goes into circulation. Eventually inflation will defeat deflation in about 2 years time where the Euro will quickly lose its value. Only then will a return to the Punt will become more popular.

bajer101

conditioned games wrote: »

We live in the here and now that is not going to happen for another few years. Firstly the environment has to such that having the Euro is so unappealing that going back to our own currency is the better option. The world has been fighting deflation since 2008 by creating massive amounts of debt and large currency creation.

Every debt the ECB loans is new currency that goes into circulation. Eventually inflation will defeat deflation in about 2 years time where the Euro will quickly lose its value. Only then will a return to the Punt will become more popular.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt? I'll give you a bit of leeway here and give you five years to implement this plan. So, this day in five years time, Ireland exits the Eurozone and become this exalted sovereign nation with its own currency. Tell me how you think this new utopia will be. Here's a clue - Greece stared down the barrel of that gun and didn't fancy it and they don't benefit from the Euro anywhere near as much as we do. No Euro = no Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Ebay, Paypal, Apple or any of the big pharmas.

conditioned games

bajer101 wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah - what would happen if Ireland reverted to the Punt? I'll give you a bit of leeway here and give you five years to implement this plan. So, this day in five years time, Ireland exits the Eurozone and become this exalted sovereign nation with its own currency. Tell me how you think this new utopia will be. Here's a clue - Greece stared down the barrel of that gun and didn't fancy it and they don't benefit from the Euro anywhere near as much as we do. No Euro = no Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Ebay, Paypal, Apple or any of the big pharmas.

How would not having the Euro mean not having the above companies? Remember it was only 2002 when we converted to the Euro, Apple, Amazon and the big pharmas were already here. Britain has done well without it. Eventually we will return to our own currency to suit our economic policies which includes managing our own interest rates which we needed to when the property bubble was over heating between 04 and 06. In a way Identity Ireland is ahead of its time.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

Eventually we will return to our own currency to suit our economic policies which includes managing our own interest rates which we needed to when the property bubble was over heating between 04 and 06.

Yes, the government was utterly desperate to damp down the property bubble between '04 and '06, but there was nothing - literally nothing whatsoever - that it could possibly have done about it other than to set interest rates.

(The above was dripping with sarcasm, in case it passed you by.)

conditioned games

It's not the government's job to set interest rates that is done by the Central Bank who should remain independent. They look at key economic indicators in the economy when making their decisions. The European Central Bank sets ireland's interest rates regardless of what our needs are because we are part of the Euro for now.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It's not the government's job to set interest rates that is done by the Central Bank who should remain independent. They look at key economic indicators in the economy when making their decisions. The European Central Bank sets ireland's interest rates regardless of what our needs are because we are part of the Euro for now.

And the government's job is to set fiscal policy. Can you list all the fiscal policy measures the government took between '04 and '06 in a frantic attempt to damp down the property bubble?

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

And the government's job is to set fiscal policy. Can you list all the fiscal policy measures the government took between '04 and '06 in a frantic attempt to damp down the property bubble?

So your agreeing Ireland should have its own currency, now you want to discuss fiscal policies?

spaceylou

Having listened to their leader on Newstalk this morning, I am not sure even they know (or think they know) what would happen if we returned to the punt and withdrew from the EU.

He wanted to lower taxes for low income earners (fairly standard pre-election promise); marginally raise taxes in the short-term for high earners; build some primary industry so that we would have a stronger economic base - get more money from our fisheries, oil reserves etc to fund state expenditure and tax cuts ; create employment (unsurprisingly no specifics there) - there was more but he was so confused it was getting hard to follow - in short it seemed like a mixture of embracing capitalism with 'small government' and no welfare state (except for some bits for Irish people who've contributed to the tax system) and isolationism.

I feel that the kids he teaches in primary school might come up with a more coherent economic plan.

Permabear

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jobbridge4life

spaceylou wrote: »

Having listened to their leader on Newstalk this morning, I am not sure even they know (or think they know) what would happen if we returned to the punt and withdrew from the EU.

He wanted to lower taxes for low income earners (fairly standard pre-election promise); marginally raise taxes in the short-term for high earners; build some primary industry so that we would have a stronger economic base - get more money from our fisheries, oil reserves etc to fund state expenditure and tax cuts ; create employment (unsurprisingly no specifics there) - there was more but he was so confused it was getting hard to follow - in short it seemed like a mixture of embracing capitalism with 'small government' and no welfare state (except for some bits for Irish people who've contributed to the tax system) and isolationism.

I feel that the kids he teaches in primary school might come up with a more coherent economic plan.

that is all just nationalistic right wing claptrap. Poorly thought out claptrap at that.

Permabear

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oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It'll be alright Bravo when lost its ok to cry foul and run away, I understand.

Doubling down, eh? Fine. Can you quote the post of mine in which I agree that Ireland should have its own currency?

jobbridge4life

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

its a bit nationalist and at the same time socialist alright.

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

Doubling down, eh? Fine. Can you quote the post of mine in which I agree that Ireland should have its own currency?

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

seamus

These guys were going for the hard propaganda today, but fell at the last post. They claim a 25% increase in membership since yesterday. But then made the rookie mistake of telling us that there were 115 members before that increase.

I'd say Fine Gael are sh1tting themselves

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

You're the one arguing that we would be better off as an island of a few million than as an integral part of a half-billion-strong union. I think it's up to you to make the case for how we would be better off pursuing an isolationist course.

jobbridge4life

conditioned games wrote: »

It was a question hence the '?'. We were discussing the Punt then you moved to fiscal policies. Now you've moved on again failing to address why we should not have our own currency and control of our interest rates to suit our requirements.

~You are the one advocating a change to the status quo if it is something you believe in then you ought to be able to articulate why making such a significant move would be in our best interests. Unless you are proposing it for the nationalists shizzles and giggles.

conditioned games

oscarBravo wrote: »

You're the one arguing that we would be better off as an island of a few million than as an integral part of a half-billion-strong union. I think it's up to you to make the case for how we would be better off pursuing an isolationist course.

Wrong again I said we would be better having our own currency which we had pre 2002. You appear to be confusing been part of the European Union with the Euro exchange rate. Britain is a member of one while we are a member of both.

Galwayguy35

We need a party that is prepared to tackle the immigration question and not be afraid to mention it in case the bleeding heart liberals start accusing them of being the Irish version of the KKK.

Such a party also needs sound economic policies though, and unfortunately it's not this lot.

oscarBravo

conditioned games wrote: »

Wrong again I said we would be better having our own currency which we had pre 2002. You appear to be confusing been part of the European Union with the Euro exchange rate.

Perhaps you could point me to that part of the treaties that allows us to relinquish the Euro while remaining in the EU.

Chips Lovell

As noted by Nodin on another thread, they're also promising to get tough on Educate Together