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safety order bull****e

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    #32
    acuriouscat
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭acuriouscat


    When u got the summons did it say what she wrote down on the application?


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    #33
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Joshua5 wrote: »
    Sure how is that fair on an innocent party. This is a move to prevent me from coming to my house to see my children and gain an upper hand in a divorce. I'm dreading this, I can nearly see the outcome judging on the messages here. I've no hope in proving my innocence.

    It doesn't prevent you coming to the house. It's not about proving your innocence. A Safety order isn't a criminal record. The only time it will affect you is if you break it by engaging in abusive behaviour.


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    #34
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It doesn't prevent you coming to the house. It's not about proving your innocence. A Safety order isn't a criminal record. The only time it will affect you is if you break it by engaging in abusive behaviour.

    But if she lies saying I was abusive in the first place, when I wasn't and gets this order then she can do it again when she has it.


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    #35
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    acuriouscat wrote: »
    When u got the summons did it say what she wrote down on the application?

    it says I blocked her leaving the kitchen, threatened to take the children where she would never see them again. I struck her in the arm and called her abusive names. I threatened to move back into the house and I threatened to take my children from school. She states I was abusive verbally and psychologically since we got married but my behaviour has become more extreme.


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    #36
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    OP, you sound genuine. One thing springs to mind for me, doesn't abuse or being abusive encompass using colourful language and or any kind of name calling during an argument? I know it seems ridiculous and throwing the f bombs about are common practice in everyday life for most of us but this could be what she's using against you so if this is the case be prepared for that.

    Apply for legal aid asap, you'll need to be assessed for suitability and that can take time.

    As someone mentioned for your own protection don't have any informal contact with her ever again and keep a record of any contact she tries to make with you.

    Sorry for your troubles and good luck


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    #37
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Joshua5 wrote: »
    But if she lies saying I was abusive in the first place, when I wasn't and gets this order then she can do it again when she has it.

    The awarding of a safety order is a civil matter, a judge decides on the balance of probability. The prosecution of a breach of an order is a criminal matter and must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. It's a lot easier to get one than it is to use one.


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    #38
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    OP, you sound genuine. One thing springs to mind for me, doesn't abuse or being abusive encompass using colourful language and or any kind of name calling during an argument? I know it seems ridiculous and throwing the f bombs about are common practice in everyday life for most of us but this could be what she's using against you so if this is the case be prepared for that.

    Apply for legal aid asap, you'll need to be assessed for suitability and that can take time.

    As someone mentioned for your own protection don't have any informal contact with her ever again and keep a record of any contact she tries to make with you.

    Sorry for your troubles and good luck

    I can say with my hand on my heart I never ever called her a name, never an abusive name. She is the mother of my children and she was my wife.

    We had argued before as couples do. Her family for instance had some inappropriate behaviour around my children which we argued about. I doubt she'll bring that up in court because the court would be more concerned about her mothering skills then.


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    #39
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The awarding of a safety order is a civil matter, a judge decides on the balance of probability. The prosecution of a breach of an order is a criminal matter and must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. It's a lot easier to get one than it is to use one.

    It still doesn't make me feel better. If my ex can be awarded a safety order for a pack of lies against me then how can I even speak up for my children or be a father when she can pull the 'fear' card. It's unreal, sickening and an abuse of the system.


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    #40
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Joshua5 wrote: »
    It's unreal, sickening and an abuse of the system.
    Yup. Thus get a family lawyer on how to proceed. They may even know some of the tricks she could be liable to pull.


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    #41
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    Hi guys,

    My ex wife had an interim protective order against me, I was in court yesterday for a hearing on a safety order. It was her word against mine, which I might add she was lying. In my stupidity I thought there was a chance when the judge hears both sides of the story he would know it was fabricated.

    Unfortunately for me he asked her for the account of the day, which she gave along with many other lies. He was shaking his head in disgust.

    I then was asked to take the stand, which I did and when I tried to explain my side of the story he cut me off and asked me you do deny the allegations which I did.

    He said that is all, and gave me a safety barring order for two years. For those of you who will say a safety order is no big deal I feel like it is blacking my name for something I didn't do.

    She lives in the house I pay a mortgage on with her partner and my children, I'm now afraid I can't even see my children or more false allegations will come my way.

    I need to know that based on the face this was a district court case, is it full and final or can I appeal in a court near me. This was in county Louth and I live in Dublin. Thanks


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    #42
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    You can appeal, I believe, to the Circuit Court where the case will be heard De novo (from scratch). As you have already seen though it would be advisable to have a solicitor.


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    #43
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    You can appeal, I believe, to the Circuit Court where the case will be heard De novo (from scratch). As you have already seen though it would be advisable to have a solicitor.

    I will get a solicitor this time even if it costs me the shirt of my back. Does it need to be in the Louth Circuit court or can I move it to Dublin? Just so I know which solicitor area I can look for in the expertise. Thank you


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    #44
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Joshua5 wrote: »
    I will get a solicitor this time even if it costs me the shirt of my back. Does it need to be in the Louth Circuit court or can I move it to Dublin? Just so I know which solicitor area I can look for in the expertise. Thank you

    Pass, speak to the solicitor. I'm not in practice so I've no idea of the practical side of things I'm afraid. I'd assume this is an area covered by general practice. I'd start off in FLAC (www.flac.ie) they will be able to recommend someone and give you a steer on legal aid. However I'm not sure what the time limit is for an appeal so act quickly.

    As for picking a solicitor, go with you gut. It's no different from picking an electrician or a plumber. Shop around.


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    #45
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/barring_safety_and_protection_orders.html

    Safety order
    A safety order is an order of the court which prohibits the violent person from further violence or threats of violence. It does not oblige the person to leave the family home. If the person is not living with you it prohibits them from watching or being near your home. A safety order can last up to 5 years.


    It won't stop you seeing your kids but if I was in your position I'd have a witness by my side every time I had to interact with (in your case) my ex wife.


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    #46
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    ken wrote: »
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/barring_safety_and_protection_orders.html

    Safety order
    A safety order is an order of the court which prohibits the violent person from further violence or threats of violence. It does not oblige the person to leave the family home. If the person is not living with you it prohibits them from watching or being near your home. A safety order can last up to 5 years.


    It won't stop you seeing your kids but if I was in your position I'd have a witness by my side every time I had to interact with (in your case) my ex wife.

    The judge granted two years safety order against me. I didn't do anything, this is all because she had found out my current partner is pregnant and out of spite. The judge didn't want to hear anything from me.


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    #47
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    Joshua5 wrote: »
    She lives in the house I pay a mortgage on with her partner and my children, I'm now afraid I can't even see my children or more false allegations will come my way.

    Are you doing this for your Kids?

    Can you not sell your ex and her partner the house?


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    #48
    Joshua5
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Joshua5


    Polo_Mint wrote: »
    Are you doing this for your Kids?

    Can you not sell your ex and her partner the house?

    Yes I'm doing it for the kids, it's their family home. She doesn't want to buy the house, she wants it signed over to her. We had a verbal argument about it. The short story is we had agreed on mediation and the division of assets. The house I agreed to put my half into trust for my children, it was all ok. She found out my current partner is pregnant and then the next day said no mediation unless I sign over the house I've paid the mortgage on the last 12 years. I said no, we argued but then she called the police. I waited for them and they asked me to leave so she could calm down which I did.

    She then when to the court to apply for this order claiming I struck her, pushed her and had been abusive to her. All lies but the judge didn't want to hear it.


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    #49
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Threads merged.


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    #50
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Mod:

    Please try to stay on topic.

    Musical interlude deleted.


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    #51
    hierro
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭hierro


    Almost a side question But it seems to apply here.

    Do the legal profession contest domestic orders based on the non-fulfilment of the shared living arrangements where the other half is not a "spouse"?


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    #52
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    It gives me no pleasure to say a lawyer in the first instance would have been easier. A lawyer/ solicitor can see things so much clearer than involved parties.

    A good lawyer can save your life. Not to be confused with how a doctor can stop you from dying.

    Best of luck with it.


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    #53
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Sorry for resurrecting this thread. But I'm just looking for bit of advice. Myself and wife haven't got along for years. She's controlling, and can't accept that I have had enough of her controlling ways. Things were going downhill for years, and after counselling, we decided that we couldn't be in a marriage together. Unfortunately, we are stuck with each other in the same house - bought in the boom, and big mortgage etc. She was always known for her temper, but now she is off the scales in bitterness. She'll always making comments in front of the kids about my parenting, and we used to have many arguments. Nothing physical.

    Anyway, latest thing is she has applied for a safety order, just to get one over on me, and case is coming up in a few weeks. For the past year or so, I was trying to ignore her comments to the best of my ability, but every so often it would result in shouting at each other. We did both agree that we would try to keep it civil in front of the kids but she was unable to do that. I'm no angel either,,but I sucked it up as best I could. It was hurtful, but the only thing that got me through was that every so often I would record what was going on on the phone voice recordings. So I have actual proof of her behaviour. It's not a whole lot, but I did it whenever I would think of it. e.g her making fun of me in front of the kids. I knew she is so manipulative,and it was more as a back-up for myself if she tried to bad-mouth me. I didn't expect that she would pull this stunt. But she has

    Question - can voice recordings be used as some type of evidence in these hearings. If they can, I am going to make a counter claim for an Order. I am not going to go off my own bat on this one. I will be getting on to a solicitor this week to see where I stand. From the sounds of some of the comments on here, I am going to be fighting an uphill battle.



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    #54
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The way to use voice recordings is to have them transcribed and say the transcript is your contemporaneous note of what happened and the recordings are a backup aid to memory.



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    #55
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694020#Comment_121694020

    Thank you. I have a meeting with solicitor next week to go through the details. I will have a better idea of everything then. It is so stressful. Didn't sleep a wink last night - just going over and over in my head, playing out the court scene. I really cannot believe it has come to this. She couldn't just live her own life; always probing at me trying to stir trouble. And now pulling this nasty one.

    Maybe I am being naïve, but I feel those recordings of her giving digs at me in front of the kids could be a big difference in everything. Otherwise it's just her word against mine - which I understand doesn't go well for the defendant in these cases. And she is so angry and vindictive, that she will say anything to ruin my life. I remember a few months ago, after her trying to get at me for some time, I said to her that I wasn't going to entertain her attempts to provoke me into getting into an argument in front of the kids. And all she said was "Ah go on", with a horrible smile. I think it is therapy I need before this court thing.



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