S5E5 - Kill the Boy - HAVE READ the books.

stesaurus

Not supposed to talk about moderation but seriously last two warnings are ott and make it seem like i've put in a red wedding spoiler. Just in case people are getting worried that I've done something like that, I haven't. My spoiler was fairly innocuous and is probably pretty unlikely anyway. The spoiler is based on the credits listing for the next episode but it's probably far more likely that the broadcasting tv company have just used an old credit list rather than it being a major spoiler.

Anyway my intention was just to gauge peoples opinion on it and see if they thought it was a possibility. Don't take the yellow cards as it being anything confirmed.

Tom.D.BJJ

s.welstead wrote: »

Not supposed to talk about moderation but seriously last two warnings are ott and make it seem like i've put in a red wedding spoiler. Just in case people are getting worried that I've done something like that, I haven't. My spoiler was fairly innocuous and is probably pretty unlikely anyway. The spoiler is based on the credits listing for the next episode but it's probably far more likely that the broadcasting tv company have just used an old credit list rather than it being a major spoiler.

Anyway my intention was just to gauge peoples opinion on it and see if they thought it was a possibility. Don't take the yellow cards as it being anything confirmed.

Probably down to the difference between published spoilers (the purpose of this thread) and unaired spoilers if you catch my drift.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057424696

Nody

s.welstead wrote: »

Not supposed to talk about moderation but seriously last two warnings are ott and make it seem like i've put in a red wedding spoiler. Just in case people are getting worried that I've done something like that, I haven't. My spoiler was fairly innocuous and is probably pretty unlikely anyway. The spoiler is based on the credits listing for the next episode but it's probably far more likely that the broadcasting tv company have just used an old credit list rather than it being a major spoiler.

Anyway my intention was just to gauge peoples opinion on it and see if they thought it was a possibility. Don't take the yellow cards as it being anything confirmed.

//MOD

It's spoiler tagged out because if it turns out to be true it's potentially a pretty big deal and it would make people quite unhappy if they read it here first. As it's not pure speculation based on the episodes to date and is based on something from a future episode it's considered spoiler material and hence treated as such as a precaution. Any further discussion should be done via PM instead.

//MOD

Turtyturd

I am guessing when Jon sails to save the Wildlings

he will meet Benjin who will steal the boats and return them to Danaerys in his Dario guise allowing her to cross to Westeros.

stesaurus

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Probably down to the difference between published spoilers (the purpose of this thread) and unaired spoilers if you catch my drift.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057424696

Yep get that totally and agree fully, that's why I did spoiler it and stated it's a rumor from the next ep.

Nody wrote: »

//MOD

It's spoilered out because if it turns out to be true it's potentially a pretty big deal and it would make people quite unhappy if they read it here first. As it's not pure speculation based on the episodes to date it's considered spoiler material and hence treated as such as a precaution. Any further discussion should be done via PM instead.

//MOD

Last I'll mention it here as it's getting derailed now. I mean it's a rumor, who's going to believe that GRRM turns up to play Strong Belwas anyway...

podgemonster

Excellent episode, my favourite so far. I like how it left out Kings Landing, Bravos and Dorne locations to focus on Winterfell and The Wall and gave the story lines some meat.

There's an excellent dynamic in Winterfell, everything is on a knife-edge. Brienne and Pod hang on the verges ready to save the fair maiden, while the common folk surrounding the castle are all Stark loyalists and Stannis is on the march.

Roose has surrounded himself with enemies, is outnumbered and his most important piece is Sansa whose pledged to his psychotic son and he's likely to try to kill his wife too. The main variable is Reek, I hope this season Reek begins his transition back to Theon, driven by guilt and Sansa words. Sansa is accessing her surroundings and reading her enemies, she knows now how to get to Ramsay after the pregnancy announcement. What she learns from LF should come to the fore.

While the Stone men encounter was exciting it important to note the moment Ser Friendzone and Tyrion have. The captive hostage dynamic has shift to companions now which will make for some interesting scenes later.

The Jon and Tormund scene was very well done and Jon showed trust and balls unlocking the chains of a man who hates him and is much bigger than him. Ollie will be the first to land a dagger in Jon by the way they are shaping things up, followed by Ed. The thousand years of hatred between the Wildlings and the Crows is blinding both side to the real enemy.

Also I'd like to reiterate about what people have said about the Grey Worm/Missandei storyline, noone fúcking cares, its a waste of valuable show minutes!

Mr Freeze

podgemonster wrote: »

The thousand years of hatred between the Wildlings and the Crows is blinding both side to the real enemy.

True, but the Nights Watch appear to be much more blind to the situation. The Wildings are fleeing something, the very something that the Nights Watch are supposed to be defending everyone from, how many times must it be said to them before it hits home that the Wildings were never the enemy.

They drove me mad in the last book, just a bunch of complainers. I'd be happy to see the Wildings gut the lot of them if and when it comes to it.

I hope Ed isn't one of the stabbers!

Mickeroo

Yeah considering the NW have mostly witnessed white walkers and the wights in person at this stage I'm finding it hard to buy that they would be so against what Jon is suggesting at this stage.

Nody

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah considering the NW have mostly witnessed white walkers and the wights in person at this stage I'm finding it hard to buy that they would be so against what Jon is suggesting at this stage.

Well if you assume that they think the wall is unbeatable (i.e. pour water in the doors and let the walkers stand there looking like fools) it's understandable. A few more walkers make no difference since the wall is "unbeatable" so let those crowkillers rot.

The problem of course is I'm quite certain it will turn out the walkers et al can burrow through ice quite handily (or that ancient magic tied in the wall will make the whole thing fall down as said with the horn and the comments about magic under the wall) and I'd guess that's what will happen in the books to come and the crows on the wall will be going "Oh, how did they do that? Oh I hope someone will save us!" before they turn into walker fooder with a few escaping to tell the tales).

podgemonster

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah considering the NW have mostly witnessed white walkers and the wights in person at this stage I'm finding it hard to buy that they would be so against what Jon is suggesting at this stage.

Well i think some agree with Jon and some don't but it's the mentioning of Pip and Grenn by Ed and Ollies Family that reminds us of the axes some members of the NW still have to grind with the Wildlings.

Jon (and us readers/viewers) have lived with the wildlings, seen their children and seen their way of life and their need to survive. To many of the low born members of the Nights Watch, the wildlings are simply savages that want to kill them, jsut like they killed their comrades in the past.

razorblunt

Turtyturd wrote: »

I am guessing when Jon sails to save the Wildlings

he will meet Benjin who will steal the boats and return them to Danaerys in his Dario guise allowing her to cross to Westeros.

Wait, where's this thinking coming from?
I thought

Benjin never reappeared in the books

or did I totally skim read a part?

ArmaniJeanss

razorblunt wrote: »

Wait, where's this thinking coming from?
I thought

Benjin never reappeared in the books

or did I totally skim read a part?

Google for

asoiaf Dario = benjen

to get details of one of the more wacky theories.

threein99

MrWalsh wrote: »

Clearly someone knows how to stop Greyscale, Shireens was stopped.

Stannis has private health insurance, I fear Ser Jorah is on the medical card, and will be waiting 2 years for an appointment in the grey scale clinic

jones

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah considering the NW have mostly witnessed white walkers and the wights in person at this stage I'm finding it hard to buy that they would be so against what Jon is suggesting at this stage.

I was thinking the same thing. It seems odd that even though they've seen the greater evil they are still so against Jon's plan suppose its an inbuilt distrust on both sides for 100's years they cant put that aside.

Delighted we got to see the stonemen attack the boat after last week I assumed that had been cut. They seem to be just reordering things rather than the cut and paste job that seemed to be the case in the first 4 episodes.

Still cant believe they killed Ser Baristan and the less said about the greyworm/missandrei "relationship" the better. Absolute waste of screen time. As someone said earlier I'm presuming they are trying to set it up for a death scene involving one of them.

razorblunt

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Google for

asoiaf Dario = benjen

to get details of one of the more wacky theories.

Ha ha I see, not sold on that one, from the google searcht though it seemed to build a stronger case for

Euron=Daario

so there may be something up with that alright. I wasn't aware of either theorys! This is what happens when is too long a gap between books. Damn you GRMM!

vangoz

Liam O wrote: »

In Lord of the Rings the same things happen as in the books. They cut out some minor character arcs, that were concurrent to the main story, not complete portions of books because they need to show us a boob scene an episode and some strange convoluted love story that is possibly the most pointless thing ever put on television.

That said I'm enjoying the stuff that actually pertains to the books. The scenes at the Wall were quite interesting though I feel like the Wall, KL, Dorne and Winterfell are the only places in Westeros being given any time and even then they are left out of episodes. No mention of the Riverlands, Iron Islands, rare mentions of the northerners but Stannis isn't going to be using them. I think it's to do with different directors for each episode that they want some arc to each episode rather than telling a coherent story. It's a collection of sometimes great scenes but the overall story being all over the shop because they bit off more than they could chew and didn't plan ahead early on.

Cutting out the Ironborn after the time they gave them and the buildup of Balon as one of the kings, not to mention Shireen and Selyse being dropped and brought back when they realised they needed them just reeks of poor planning from the start. They could have kept it tighter early on but when they got success they started adding characters that in the books could be fleshed out but in terms of TV logistics was never going to be sustainable. So now they presumably have a bunch of pretty high level actors and actresses just on retainer for a few cameos every season because they've stuck with the ten episode seasons which hasn't been enough since series 2.

Same problem with the Brotherhood without Banners....... will we be seeing them again?

FunLover18

googled eyes wrote:

I think maybe the boy Ollie could end up being the one who does the stabbing.

Eds will definitely do some stabbing, it gives us an 'et tu brute' moment. I'm going to pop over to the non readers thread to see if they care about MissandWorm

razorblunt

FunLover18 wrote: »

Eds will definitely do some stabbing, it gives us an 'et tu brute' moment. I'm going to pop over to the non readers thread to see if they care about MissandWorm

One fella seems to be picking up Jon Snow's lineage alright, will he gamble and google it though?

FunLover18

razorblunt wrote:

One fella seems to be picking up Jon Snow's lineage alright, will he gamble and google it though?

Saw that, I'm always automatically suspicious of people who pick up on that.

podgemonster

vangoz wrote: »

Same problem with the Brotherhood without Banners....... will we be seeing them again?

Well that's probably my biggest gripe. I can understand the cutting of fAegon and JonCon and even the removal or temporary deferral of Iron born but the Riverlands have been completely abandoned since season 3.

Not even a mention by any character of what's happening at Harrenhal, Riverrun or even The Twins since Season 3 Ep 10.

No Stone-heart, no Jaime's trip to lift the Siege of Riverrun and treat with the Blackfish (who is a major character still missing), No word on Edmure's captivity, No Brotherhood, no Thoros of Myr, no Lightning Lord, No Freys and most of all no Frey hangings. :(

alwald

podgemonster wrote: »

Well that's probably my biggest gripe. I can understand the cutting of fAegon and JonCon and even the removal or temporary deferral of Iron born but the Riverlands have been completely abandoned since season 3.

Not even a mention by any character of what's happening at Harrenhal, Riverrun or even The Twins since Season 3 Ep 10.

No Stone-heart, no Jaime's trip to lift the Siege of Riverrun and treat with the Blackfish (who is a major character still missing), No word on Edmure's captivity, No Brotherhood, no Thoros of Myr, no Lightning Lord, No Freys and most of all no Frey hangings. :(

I really think that its pointless mentioning things that people wish to see that happened in the book but that won't be mentioned in the TV show, the TV show and the books are two different things and the directors confirmed that they will twist many stories and not mention many stories.......not every book reader will be happy but this is the beauty of the show.

GerB40

podgemonster wrote: »

Well that's probably my biggest gripe. I can understand the cutting of fAegon and JonCon and even the removal or temporary deferral of Iron born but the Riverlands have been completely abandoned since season 3.

Not even a mention by any character of what's happening at Harrenhal, Riverrun or even The Twins since Season 3 Ep 10.

No Stone-heart, no Jaime's trip to lift the Siege of Riverrun and treat with the Blackfish (who is a major character still missing), No word on Edmure's captivity, No Brotherhood, no Thoros of Myr, no Lightning Lord, No Freys and most of all no Frey hangings. :(

Yet...

podgemonster

alwald wrote: »

I really think that its pointless mentioning things that people wish to see that happened in the book but that won't be mentioned in the TV show, the TV show and the books are two different things and the directors confirmed that they will twist many stories and not mention many stories.......not every book reader will be happy but this is the beauty of the show.

It may be pointless but it is lots of fun! Plus this is a discussion forum for book readers i think we can at least vent here about our gripes and voice our speculations while still enjoying the show for what it is.

I accept that the books and show are two separate entities therefore I accept the removal of side story-lines like the Kingsmoot and Nimble Dick Crab etc... However the Riverlands characters are all very prominent in the show in Season 3, if not the most prominent. Now a season and a half later and the strongholds there are still untouched and unmentioned. I have no doubt we will return to these storylines in time (if not then it's very poor writing from the show writers) but at least give us a small council update on the BWB or Riverrun.

IK09

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

"Fewer"

From what I can see, most people are over looking the importance of Stannis' grammar corrections and passing them off as some joke, they are anything but. It is the epitome of the man's character. It is either correct or incorrect. Just or unjust. Right or wrong. There is no in between for him. It is the reason he has gone to war, to make right what was wrong. His claim to the throne is absolute. He will die for it.

In the show, before he went ashore in Kings Landing, one of his soldiers turned to him after he gave the order to prepare to land saying "hundreds will die", Stannis, while putting on his gloves replied, "Thousands". He sees no point in sugar coating anything. It is correct or incorrect.

I can't recall whether it was in the books or the show, but someone said,

"Stannis is pure Iron. Black and hard and strong. He'll break before he bends".

Never has a man been described more accurately.

joe123

Absolutely hating what they are doing with the TV show. They are not just cutting characters now but totally rewriting some of it.

Killing of Barristan was awful imo, he is one of the main characters in the later books and has a pretty major role to play.

Secondly the cutting of Jon Connington and his gang has pissed me off. One of the better later characters to come in.

Thirdly why have the changed the storyline with Dany and Hizdar whatshisname? In the books, he comes across as a really intelligent, sly and manipulative man pushing Dany into all these various decisions. Now all of a sudden she just decides the pits are going to open and shes going to marry him. Bloody ridiculous as it changes that story completely.

The sooner they kill off that missandei and Greyworm the better. Completely destroyed his character with this love story nonsense.

Tom.D.BJJ

IK09 wrote: »

From what I can see, most people are over looking the importance of Stannis' grammar corrections and passing them off as some joke, they are anything but. It is the epitome of the man's character. It is either correct or incorrect. Just or unjust. Right or wrong. There is no in between for him. It is the reason he has gone to war, to make right what was wrong. His claim to the throne is absolute. He will die for it.

In the show, before he went ashore in Kings Landing, one of his soldiers turned to him after he gave the order to prepare to land saying "hundreds will die", Stannis, while putting on his gloves replied, "Thousands". He sees no point in sugar coating anything. It is correct or incorrect.

I can't recall whether it was in the books or the show, but someone said,

"Stannis is pure Iron. Black and hard and strong. He'll break before he bends".

Never has a man been described more accurately.

You get it. If anyone e is more bound by duty and honour than Ned, it is Stannis. I can't remember the exact phrase but I can paraphrase him. He saidhe never wanted to be king but he must because it's his right and duty because he's Roberts heir and for his daughter.

GerB40

IK09 wrote: »

From what I can see, most people are over looking the importance of Stannis' grammar corrections and passing them off as some joke, they are anything but. It is the epitome of the man's character. It is either correct or incorrect. Just or unjust. Right or wrong. There is no in between for him. It is the reason he has gone to war, to make right what was wrong. His claim to the throne is absolute. He will die for it.

In the show, before he went ashore in Kings Landing, one of his soldiers turned to him after he gave the order to prepare to land saying "hundreds will die", Stannis, while putting on his gloves replied, "Thousands". He sees no point in sugar coating anything. It is correct or incorrect.

I can't recall whether it was in the books or the show, but someone said,

"Stannis is pure Iron. Black and hard and strong. He'll break before he bends".

Never has a man been described more accurately.

Donal Noye. He described Renly and Robert pretty well too.

"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day".

Sleepy

joe123 wrote: »

Thirdly why have the changed the storyline with Dany and Hizdar whatshisname? In the books, he comes across as a really intelligent, sly and manipulative man pushing Dany into all these various decisions. Now all of a sudden she just decides the pits are going to open and shes going to marry him. Bloody ridiculous as it changes that story completely.

They're speeding up the evolution of her character... The slightly naieve girl that we're introduced to in A Game of Thrones that frees all the slaves over the subsequent books will be a very different character after she comes out of the great grass sea astride Drogon. We're going to see her begin to live by her family's words as she returns to Westeros and, following her forebears footsteps, conquers the seven kingdoms with fire and blood.

This is a very long read but the author explains this in far more depth (and far more eloquently) than I can: the link is to the first of 5 blog posts: https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

TBH, it's worth reading the entire blog, it's far and away the best analysis of the series I've come across.

conorhal

RobbingBandit wrote: »

They can't cut the Drogon scene though, the locust poisoning arc will be cut as there is no Strong Belwis, Varys or Ser Jorah may take Ser Barristans place down the line but it is a character cut that screws this up in my eyes.

If they have cut the two Griffs arc completely then she may end up in Westeros sooner rather than later but I hope it's on the back of Drogon, that bloody love story crap is stupid too.

The locust poisoning arc will still be in, there has to be some impetus for her to just say 'ah feck this for a laugh!' hopefully Greyworm or Missandi will be her official taster for a 'tragic end to that story arc' although if Sir Friendzones luck holds steady he'll probably stuff them all in his gob just to be a prick about it when Tyrion reaches for a handful
Speaking of Tyrion, who has better political accumen then he to sort out Danny's mess when she fecks off? Of course she better hope that nobody asks to see her CV when she lands in Westeros.....

Mr Freeze

IK09 wrote: »

"Stannis is pure Iron. Black and hard and strong. He'll break before he bends".

Never has a man been described more accurately.

Eh, some Stannis fans like myself think that never was a man described so inaccurately.

You should give this a listen, It might change your mind:
http://radiowesteros.com/radio-westeros-e07-stannis-baratheon-a-just-man

Stannis has changed his stance time and time again for his own gain or to strengthen his position. He didn't break, he is more willing to change than you think.