Sacred Cows (people no one dares criticise)

steddyeddy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Most Muslim women dressed like that choose to dress like that.

Yea I think it's brainwashing to be honest. I think a lot choose to do it because they feel they have to do it.

When the Sun Hits

Grandeeod wrote: »

Kurt cobain.

I'd see him criticised often enough, online and in real life, for both his behavior and "lack of talent" as a performer. He's acclaimed as a musician by many, but he still has a lot of critics and it's not exactly seen as ridiculous to disparage him or Nirvana. He's also mocked in various comedy shows, Family Guy being just one example. Hardly a sacred cow.

foxy farmer

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yea I think it's brainwashing to be honest. I think a lot choose to do it because they feel they have to do it.

Like all religions.

When the Sun Hits

steddyeddy wrote: »

Muslim women covered head to toe and the husband walking uncovered beside her. Sorry but that is unacceptable in this day and age.

With Islam, I find that any criticism (however valid and reasonable) is a bit of a "sacred cow". You have to be very careful with what you say and how you phrase it, or you may be accused of being islamophobic or something along those lines. Even now as I type, I'm thinking is it okay to say this? I wouldn't be like that with other religions.

Pumpkinseeds

Wang King wrote: »

You most likely missed the bit where she told us that she is a wheelchair user and knows more about the subject than most of us can ever dream of?

You're buying into the disability s h i t e. I have disabilities and I can be a total bint at times, nothing to do with my disabilities, but a good get out of jail card to be played when it suits.

Lingua Franca

conorhal wrote: »

Neither though does the near martyr like sanctification of suicides, since this is a thread about sacred cows I might as well add them to the list. And it is a selfish act, there's no denying that. A friend of mine went through a very dark period and managed to come out the other side, he admitted to me that he had at one point contemplated suicide, and only the thought of how beyond devastated his mother would have been by such an act prevented him from acting on it.

Well, if anecdotes are evidence enough for you:

I went through it too and my sick brain managed to convince itself that my continued existence was ruining the lives of all those I loved and it would be the kindest thing to do for them, to take myself out of their lives and stop causing them worry and pain. I was convinced that the sadness they would feel at my loss would be outweighed by not having me making them miserable and ruining their lives.

So yeah, there is denying that.

And I can tell you as someone who has actually been in the darkness, this compulsion of those who haven't been there to sneer to "so selfish" doesn't deter people who already feel worthless. Quite the opposite.

Amalgam

Mattress Mick.

Wang King

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You're buying into the disability s h i t e. I have disabilities and I can be a total bint at times, nothing to do with my disabilities, but a good get out of jail card to be played when it suits.

And unable to read posts in context too it seems

Pumpkinseeds

Wang King wrote: »

And unable to read posts in context too it seems

Nope, no problem with that, just a low bullsh*t tolerance.

jooksavage

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

With Islam, I find that any criticism (however valid and reasonable) is a bit of a "sacred cow". You have to be very careful with what you say and how you phrase it, or you may be accused of being islamophobic or something along those lines. Even now as I type, I'm thinking is it okay to say this? I wouldn't be like that with other religions.

I don't know. I don't see it as something the media haven't challenged. In fact some tabloid rags have turned their obsession with Islam into a selling point.

Wang King

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Nope, no problem with that, just a low bullsh*t tolerance.

Definitely unable to read since my previous post to the one you quoted should have given you context

jooksavage

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Well, if anecdotes are evidence enough for you:

I went through it too and my sick brain managed to convince itself that my continued existence was ruining the lives of all those I loved and it would be the kindest thing to do for them, to take myself out of their lives and stop causing them worry and pain. I was convinced that the sadness they would feel at my loss would be outweighed by not having me making them miserable and ruining their lives.

So yeah, there is denying that.

And I can tell you as someone who has actually been in the darkness, this compulsion of those who haven't been there to sneer to "so selfish" doesn't deter people who already feel worthless. Quite the opposite.

My fiancé is a psych nurse who herself experienced a very dark period and would concur with this. Selfishness implies a measure of rationality and the ability to reason, which are often lost in the darkness.

Chloris

padd b1975 wrote:

Greenpeace.

Ah Futurama have had a good go at them!

Trigger Happy wrote:

That is a very unfair thing to say about someone who was murdered. She was many things, but not sick and twisted.

She wanted somebody to murder her. She had fantasies about it. How does the fact that she was then murdered make her any less twisted? Arguably it makes it apparent just how sick she was.

Field east wrote:

About the only name proffered so far that is entitled to be treated as a sacred cow. His honesty, endeavour, commitment, application, lack of ego, etc, while putting his health - both short and long term - on the line for Ireland, Munster and the Lions ,is beyond reproach. I am always of the opinion that with him, you always get what you see. Never met the man but there is something about him. For that matter have met with none of the rest either

Jesus, rugby is just a stupid f'n sport. Realistically, when you consider the pointlessness of it, he's an absolute idiot for risking his health for a game. They all are.

Cuban Pete

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

With Islam, I find that any criticism (however valid and reasonable) is a bit of a "sacred cow". You have to be very careful with what you say and how you phrase it, or you may be accused of being islamophobic or something along those lines. Even now as I type, I'm thinking is it okay to say this? I wouldn't be like that with other religions.

If you dare criticise anyone saying those things you're a liberal leftie do-gooder hippy. Seems that criticism of Islam is the thing that's a sacred cow.

jooksavage

Chloris wrote: »

Jesus, rugby is just a stupid f'n sport. Realistically, when you consider the pointlessness of it, he's an absolute idiot for risking his health for a game. They all are.

Ha I don't know if I'd agree totally with this. But rugby might be a sacred cow alright. I'd feel reluctant to tell people I find it boring and pointless. Even though it is :-)

the_monkey

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

And what sport have you played at the highest level?

tennis ...

Chloris

jooksavage wrote:

Ha I don't know if I'd agree totally with this. But rugby might be a sacred cow alright. I'd feel reluctant to tell people I find it boring and pointless. Even though it is :-)

It's an egg being thrown up and down an expanse of grass. The only thing I share with the players is rough proximity of birthplace. Fair enough, they're great athletes. But they're only on a pedestal because somebody made up rugby rules and said "this is a game". It simply doesn't empirically matter, and all it is now is an enormous marketing scam. Incredibly clever, really. Same with basically all team sports and patriotism. Why aren't we lauding incredible economists or philosophers in arenas? Because any idiot can understand running up and down, but only the intelligent few have the privilege of the critical thought and complex understanding which goes into those disciplines.

tl;dr I value intellect over whatever the hell is being demonstrated by having big arms. Cue the inevitable onslaught of "sports are great I'm a sport and I've done loads of great things"

Cold War Kid

Sam Kade wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take before a hawking worshiper came along.

There is utterly no indication that I'm a Hawking worshipper whatsoever. All I know about the man, besides his disability, is that he is an accomplished scientist who is highly respected among his peers. I know nothing about theoretical physics.
He only talks theoretical physics, you said he talks shyte. I simply pointed out the incredible stupidity of that statement. If you could elaborate as to how he "talks shyte", cool, but I have a very very strong suspicion you can't, and that you just said it for no particular reason, just... to say it, and because you possibly don't like stuff you don't understand.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Especially a certain young one who talks sh1te and everyone puts her on a pedestal, you know who I mean don't you?

So brave that you didn't say her name. Is it just that you don't like the disabled? Genuine question.

galljga1

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

And what sport have you played at the highest level?

Dwarf Throwing.

osarusan

Seamus Heaney.

Cold War Kid

conorhal wrote: »

Neither though does the near martyr like sanctification of suicides, since this is a thread about sacred cows I might as well add them to the list. And it is a selfish act, there's no denying that. A friend of mine went through a very dark period and managed to come out the other side, he admitted to me that he had at one point contemplated suicide, and only the thought of how beyond devastated his mother would have been by such an act prevented him from acting on it.

I was the same.
But there's a scale. Further up on the scale, logic goes and with it comes an inability to reason in the way you have described.
I have no problem with people saying suicide is selfish - calling something selfish isn't always an attack on it, but I have a problem with people saying there's no real reason for a person to do it, and they would always have gotten better if they'd just held on, and that they could control their urges.
Those kind of sentiments just demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of depression. People don't always get better.

dirtyden

Sam Kade wrote: »

Let me see the players come to mind first, they don't get paid and the fat cats in the gaa making money off them. Then the overpriced tickets for the drones that pay for them.

We will have to agree to disagree SK. The players play by choice as do those going to the games. The prices of tickets are very competitive compared to other sports. Who are the fat cats? The president gets a salary equivalent to the job he gives up when he serves his term.

The money earned is redistributed amongst the grass roots of the association and the accounts are in the public domain.

I am sure there will be some truth in the points you have made also but I think in the overall balance of things the association makes a positive effect on irish sporting life.

wallywhittle

Nelson Mandela.

When the Sun Hits

Cuban Pete wrote: »

If you dare criticise anyone saying those things you're a liberal leftie do-gooder hippy. Seems that criticism of Islam is the thing that's a sacred cow.

Sounds like you have some bias. On the web you might encounter some of this behavior, but even still it's far from the majority. In real life, most people I know are kind of scared or at least very reluctant to give criticism. I'm talking about legitimate concerns here, by the way. Not discriminatory comments or anything like that.

One eyed Jack

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I was the same.
But there's a scale. Further up on the scale, logic goes and with it comes an inability to reason in the way you have described.
I have no problem with people saying suicide is selfish - calling something selfish isn't always an attack on it, but I have a problem with people saying there's no real reason for a person to do it, and they would always have gotten better if they'd just held on, and that they could control their urges.
Those kind of sentiments just demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of depression. People don't always get better.

For me at least, they represent that person's understanding of suicide and suicidal thoughts, or suicidal ideation. People who have suicidal thoughts or go so far as to take their own lives, the act may not necessarily have been preceded by any period of ill mental health whatsoever.

It may seem patronising to some people to suggest that there may be alternatives they haven't explored, and that they should at least try to reach out to someone before they choose to take their own life. But to other people, they see that there is hope, and that may be just what they needed at that moment in time.

It's true that people don't always recover from depression, but that doesn't mean we should ever allow ourselves to think that they can't. I know you didn't say it CWK but all too often depression is treated as a sacred cow and it's almost as though some people experiencing depression think that everyone experiences depression the same way they do, and anyone who has a different perspective "has no understanding of depression" as though it were a benign mental illness.

Surely that demonstrates that it is they who have a very poor understanding of depression, and their dismissive attitude towards other people is exactly the same attitude they claim is exhibited towards them. The easiest explanation is that it's nothing to do with that person's ill mental health. It's simply because they're behaving like an asshole.

jooksavage

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

Sounds like you have some bias. On the web you might encounter some of this behavior, but even still it's far from the majority. In real life, most people I know are kind of scared or at least very reluctant to give criticism. I'm talking about legitimate concerns here, by the way. Not discriminatory comments or anything like that.

Are you posting from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant? :-) Maybe people are more reticent about it here in Ireland. This certainly wasn't the case when I lived in Manchester. As I said some publications are making bank off the back of an anti-muslim agenda. By insinuating that Cuban Pete had a bias you actually validated his point. I cant speak for CP but I don't think it's incompatible to be appalled by the overt sexism of some Muslims and and also unsettled by the cynical xenophobic baiting that goes on in tabloid media.

Lux23

Brian O'Driscoll. He's a greedy bully but sure he can do no wrong according to a lot of people.

Eugene Norman

dirtyden wrote: »

We will have to agree to disagree SK. The players play by choice as do those going to the games. The prices of tickets are very competitive compared to other sports. Who are the fat cats? The president gets a salary equivalent to the job he gives up when he serves his term.

The money earned is redistributed amongst the grass roots of the association and the accounts are in the public domain.

I am sure there will be some truth in the points you have made also but I think in the overall balance of things the association makes a positive effect on irish sporting life.

You are probably treating SK a bit too kindly by taking him seriously. He hates Hawkings who "talks ****e" about theoretical physics so we are not dealing with the brighest of minds here perhaps.

Shouldn't people explain why the "sacred cow" is a sacred cow but shouldn't be. Paul O'Connell isn't a sacred cow, there's just nothing to criticise.

genericguy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Most Muslim women dressed like that choose to dress like that.

Yeah but if the alternative is decapitation or stoning it's an easy choice to make.

Eugene Norman

Chloris wrote: »

It's an egg being thrown up and down an expanse of grass. The only thing I share with the players is rough proximity of birthplace. Fair enough, they're great athletes. But they're only on a pedestal because somebody made up rugby rules and said "this is a game". It simply doesn't empirically matter, and all it is now is an enormous marketing scam. Incredibly clever, really. Same with basically all team sports and patriotism. Why aren't we lauding incredible economists or philosophers in arenas? Because any idiot can understand running up and down, but only the intelligent few have the privilege of the critical thought and complex understanding which goes into those disciplines.

tl;dr I value intellect over whatever the hell is being demonstrated by having big arms. Cue the inevitable onslaught of "sports are great I'm a sport and I've done loads of great things"

You could reduce all sport with such reductionist absurdities. Soccer is kicking a round ball around the place. Gaelic football is picking it up sometimes. Rugby is picking it up with an egg shaped ball. Marathon runners expend energy going nowhere that they couldn't go faster on public transport, cyclists in the tour the France could hop on a TGV and get there quicker, athletics is running around in circles, gymnastics is jumping around in circles.... And on.

All great human civilisations have had sporting events, it tests more than the sport but the human desire to perfect themselves.

There is no dichotomy between liking sports and having a regard for the intellect either.