Legal rifles for deer hunting

dave81

Hi all. I'm trying to get a rifle for my dad's birthday. He will probably only use it on foxes but I'd like to give him the option of hunting deer and applying for a licence next August if wants one. He might never apply for one.

Ive made some enquiries, .243 and 308 are top notch for deer but you cant take possession of them until you get the deer licence. That would be next August at the earliest. Thats not much good. I think that 22 250 is min calibre but I'm not sure if that can be taken home without a deer licence. A .223 might work but I'm not sure if this is legal to shoot deer with. I think it can be taken home without a deer licence just a normal firearms licence. (He has a licence for a shotgun). I presume judging by numbers its stronger than 22 250. I haven't a clue!


What options would I have to get a rifle that he can take home without having to apply for a deer licence but at the same time provide the option of applying for one.?

Thanks a million.

Grizzly 45

He can apply for and if granted the 243 or 308 there and then.If he applies now for the deer permit he should have it about and just in time for the rifle cert.It takes about 90 days anyway,depending on your Super.
THATS IF you already have a permission or an area with deer in it or an area suitable for foxing.
223 is a no go for deer here. 22/250 is a varmit caliber and the only reason it was ever used here was simply because we had no other choice in the time of the NI conflict and defacto gun confiscation of the TCO of 1972 in the Republic.Its a varmit caliber for foxes and whatnot and should IMO NEVER be used on deer.Yes there were alot of deer taken with them too,but its not the best tool for the job either.[Why use a bush man hand saw to cut up a tree when you have a chainsaw available?]

deerhunter1

dave81 wrote: »

Hi all. I'm trying to get a rifle for my dad's birthday. He will probably only use it on foxes but I'd like to give him the option of hunting deer and applying for a licence next August if wants one. He might never apply for one.

Ive made some enquiries, .243 and 308 are top notch for deer but you cant take possession of them until you get the deer licence. That would be next August at the earliest. Thats not much good. I think that 22 250 is min calibre but I'm not sure if that can be taken home without a deer licence. A .223 might work but I'm not sure if this is legal to shoot deer with. I think it can be taken home without a deer licence just a normal firearms licence. (He has a licence for a shotgun). I presume judging by numbers its stronger than 22 250. I haven't a clue!


What options would I have to get a rifle that he can take home without having to apply for a deer licence but at the same time provide the option of applying for one.?

Thanks a million.

What Grizzly is good sound information, however I may add that a .223 can be got for shooting deer as well as varmint, I know of a couple of people who have/had them for deer.

Cass

deerhunter1 wrote: »

......... however I may add that a .223 can be got for shooting deer as well as varmint, I know of a couple of people who have/had them for deer.

Lad, we discussed this to death on more than one occasion. a .223 Rem can NEVER make the legal minimum requirements for deer shooting. The only chambering for it would be the .223 wssm which can only do it with a 55gr or higher round producing a minimum of 3,800 fps. Anything slower does not make the energy requirements

When you mentioned people you knew in the threads above i e-mailed the NPWS, as did other lads. Here are the replies we got:

Cass wrote: »

Got an e-mail from a nice lady in the NPWS.

She apologised (as though it was her fault) for any confusion, and says that any previous statement of a .223 being deer legal is erroneous, and should be ignored.

The whole issue here was not whether it's legal (bear with me) as the law says it is not. The issue was the NPWS issuing deer licenses that are invalid as soon as they are issued as the NPWS cannot change or "go against" the law.

So if anyone is told they can, you cannot. If anyone has a license on a .223 my advice to you is to not use it, and contact the NPWS. Because it was issued DOES NOT make it legal. DO NOT use it.

plinker wrote: »

just got this reply from NPWS

Dear Mr. XXXXX

Many thanks for your email.

Following confirmation from our expert, please be advised that there is no legal round for a .223 rifle that will comply with the Firearms and Ammunition Regulations, SI 239 of 1977.
Apologies for the genuine administrative error on our part and apologies again for any convenience and confusion caused as a result.

I hope I have clarified that matter for you.

Regards
Laura Claffey

Wildlife Licensing Unit
National Parks & Wildlife Service
Dept of Arts, Heritage & the Gaeltacht
7 Ely Place
Dublin 2
01-8883258

As i said to you then the NPWS may have issued the licenses, but they do not legislate so the licenses stand void as soon as they are issued. Meaning if you shoot deer, with a .223, and a deer license you can still be prosecuted.


To the OP please DO NOT attempt to go for a .223 thinking it will be deer legal. It won't be.

BrownTrout

I think 220 Swift is good for deer and fox? Not sure though

Witcher

BrownTrout wrote: »

I think 220 Swift is good for deer and fox? Not sure though

The Swift is the absolute bare minimum of what is legal and only with a 60gr bullet at that. This isn't the eighties or the nineties where it was hard to licence some of the bigger centrefires, there are better rounds out there now, no need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with a Swift.

Then you've lads looking to go (illegally obviously) with a .223, always looking to go lower. Fcuk me..if the limits were changed to allow the .223 for deer you'd probably have lads going 'Can I use a Hornet?':pac: It must be lads being tight, afraid they'd have to pay tuppence ha'penny more per box for the bigger rounds:pac:

dave81

Thanks lads.

The 243 is the one I want alright for the dad. As mentioned, no point in doing the deer a disservice by wounding it or causing unnecessary hardship.

I'm still not clear whether I can just buy one and he can just use it for foxes, and never bother having anything to do with deer. It would give him options that he might and might not exercise. Someone told me that no deer licence means that you cannot buy a 243 0r 308, even if you just shoot foxes or targets. You cant just get a firearms licence and bring them home.

When getting a firearms licence for a rifle, is it like the shotgun process? Go to GardAI and fill out a few forms and then pay the fee and wait?

Thanks lads

hiddenmongoose

you dont need a deer licence to get a deer legal calibre rifle.I owned a 308 for example for years before I ever got into deer shooting.A 243 could be got with fox shooting being the valid reason .
you could also have your dad join a rifle range and that would be valid reason for many calibres which he could then use for deer also.

Cass

dave81 wrote: »

I'm still not clear whether I can just buy one and he can just use it for foxes, and never bother having anything to do with deer.

Hey Dave.

The problem you face is the one we all face. The law says that to apply for a rifle you must have "Good Reason". This means that the need or reason for this gun is something that another gun of lesser caliber cannot satisfy.

So if you say it's for foxes only then the Supernintendo might say a deer legal rifle is "overkill" or unnecessary for dispatching foxes. That is not to say it cannot be gotten because if you can make a good enough case and prove why (for example) a .243 is needed and how a lower caliber (again example) such as a .223 would not suffice you may be granted the license. Or your Father in this case.

Someone told me that no deer licence means that you cannot buy a 243 0r 308, even if you just shoot foxes or targets. You cant just get a firearms licence and bring them home.

Yes and no.

As above you must show good reason for the gun. Membership to a rifle range will, depending on the range, almost guarantee you can get any caliber as target shooting does not have a "caliber limit". You can then apply for the rifle as a target rifle (you MUST have membership to a range) and also for deer stalking. If you apply for the deer stalking too then you still need to produce a deer license.

However it's not as simple as pick a gun of any caliber and get it simply because you want it. Good reason is the key lad. You will have some telling you it's a piece of piss and perhaps for them it was, but those cases are getting less and less each year.

When getting a firearms licence for a rifle, is it like the shotgun process? Go to GardAI and fill out a few forms and then pay the fee and wait?

Yup.

Pick a gun, leave small deposit, apply using the FCA1, wait, get license, pay for license, pay for gun, collect, go shoot.

Witcher

dave81 wrote: »

Someone told me

You have to wonder where these people get this type of crap, don't mind them they're just talking out their hoop. There are lads with .308's and below just for foxes and never took a deer in their life. It's all down to what your super says. No such thing as only being able to get 'X calibre' if you have a deer licence.

When getting a firearms licence for a rifle, is it like the shotgun process? Go to GardAI and fill out a few forms and then pay the fee and wait?

Process is the same.

daithi55

jesus bud ya make it sound like hes going shooting rabbits.. getting him a rifle is one thing what about everything else he needs,, have you discussed this with him or even thought about what he will do with the deer... shooting them is the easy part, how will he get it off the land, how will he gut it, skin it, butcher it, store the meat process the meat etc etc... as for 243 its not a great deer caliber imho had one for 8 years... go 6.5x55 .308 etc and ya wont go wrong

shooterjay

hi op. i got a .303, without the deer licence. i use it for targets. its a nice gun to shoot.

deerhunter1

daithi55 wrote: »

jesus bud ya make it sound like hes going shooting rabbits.. getting him a rifle is one thing what about everything else he needs,, have you discussed this with him or even thought about what he will do with the deer... shooting them is the easy part, how will he get it off the land, how will he gut it, skin it, butcher it, store the meat process the meat etc etc... as for 243 its not a great deer caliber imho had one for 8 years... go 6.5x55 .308 etc and ya wont go wrong

TRUE TRUE

dodderangler

shooterjay wrote: »

hi op. i got a .303, without the deer licence. i use it for targets. its a nice gun to shoot.

Yes but you need to declare it as a deer rifle if you intend on using it which the op says his father will more than likely.

dave81

Thanks all.

Dave

Kramer

Cass wrote: »

The law says that to apply for a rifle you must have "Good Reason".........

Yep.

Cass wrote: »

......This means that the need or reason for this gun is something that another gun of lesser caliber cannot satisfy.

No it doesn't. That's an extra requirement for restricted firearms. Your conflation, for example, would mean no .308 rifles would be licensed for F-TR as .223s are permissible & any Super could insist a .22lr is enough for fox - just stalk up really, really close

Cass

Kramer wrote: »

No it doesn't. That's an extra requirement for restricted firearms. Your conflation, for example, would mean no .308 rifles would be licensed for F-TR as .223s are permissible & any Super could insist a .22lr is enough for fox - just stalk up really, really close

You're right in that i was thinking of the restricted SI but the point, imo, is still applicable to unrestricted rifles.

In your example i would not be refused a .308 for FTR because that is the caliber shot in FTR (as well as .223) and once i show that the predominant (if not sole caliber, as no one shoots .223) caliber is .308 my good reason stands as valid. Also i have range membership for target shooting so my good reason just became stronger.

Now apply that to shooting foxes and rabbits with the good reason of "i might shoot deer". The first question i'd be asked is where is my deer license. If i say i don't have one, and i'm not sure if i'm going to shoot deer, but definitely want to start out with foxes and rabbits the Supernintendo will say "sure won't a non deer caliber suit you until you decide if you want to go for deer". Or get the deer license and we'll talk deer caliber.

Without getting caught up in semantics the OP needs to figure out what his Father will be shooting, have the relevant license/membership and then go for the caliber he wants. Trying to get a higher caliber without any appropriate licenses, range membership, etc. may result in being refused.