The Spring Statement

jank

Godge wrote: »

In the real world Pearse Doherty, the SF financial guru, has been talking about a double-dip recession that doesn't exist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-has-begun-buying-a-return-to-power-sinn-fein-31179055.html


"Mr Doherty said the Government caused "a double-dip recession" and delayed recovery."

Which planet is he on?

I would like to know this too!

There was no double dip recession but I suppose the shiners have been less than honest with the truth now.

In essence when their pals in Greece are being shown up for the amateur hour clowns that they are they have to reach for some other fairy tale.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

So considering that this boom is a result of enda and his brilliant cabinet, can you point out which of their many creative, original and fair initiatives that were not part of the f.f troika package that you believe led to this boom.

Firstly jobs are always created in the private sector. Governments strive to create the right conditions for job creation.

Simon Coveney has done a great job in agriculture. 10,000 jobs will be created by the abolition of milk quotas. More jobs are surely to come as we have become the only EU country whose beef is allowed entry to the US and Chinese markets. That's just in agriculture.

Sinn Fein propose:

A) Making it harder for small businesses to employ people by increasing employers' PRSI. FG has done the opposite. They have reduced it, made low-paid workers exempt and this has made it easier for companies to hire more people. This helps jobs in small businesses and retail which took massive hits during the recession.

Increased levels of taxation. Sinn Fein have commited to a wealth tax, a higher third rate of tax, increased capital gains tax and much more. This would be detrimental to job creation. Who would want to work in Ireland paying such high-levels of taxation? The best and the brightest leaving this country are not leaving because they can't find a job, they are leaving because they see that if they go do the same job in the UK for the same pay, they will come out with more money in their pockets after tax. FG's tax reduction policies will lead to 20,000 jobs alone. Not taking in to account any other policy, simply the reduction of tax will lead to 20,000 jobs.


Over 27,000 jobs in export-lead business is to be created in 2015. Lower taxes, a reduction in red tape and skilled workers are leading this surge. There is not going to an economy based on a property boom any more nor will we build an economy on high taxes as proposed by Sinn Fein. Ireland are the 4th best country in which to do business, according to Forbes, and we should be looking to climb up that list, not fall!

blackwhite

joe912 wrote: »

So considering that this boom is a result of enda and his brilliant cabinet, can you point out which of their many creative, original and fair initiatives that were not part of the f.f troika package that you believe led to this boom.

So all these successes have come about because they followed the policies that SF and the rest of the left wingers were promising to abandon?

Idbatterim

In the real world Pearse Doherty, the SF financial guru, has been talking about a double-dip recession that doesn't exist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-31179055.html


"Mr Doherty said the Government caused "a double-dip recession" and delayed recovery."

Which planet is he on?

I agree with him that the recovery was delayed, Labour getting in and then being charged with welfare and public service :rolleyes: They wanted to prolong the austerity budgets and also wanted to increase tax, rather than cut welfare, ps pay or services...

Banjo String

julie385 wrote: »

I have spoiled my vote for the last few GEs.
I will not vote for FF/FG, and I don't believe SF will do any favours for Ireland.

Surely now is the time to end what is effectively a single party (FF/FG) State?

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

People who spoil their vote have absolutely no right complaining on the current or future political makeup.

Ditto for those not bothering to get up off their rear ends and head down to a polling booth.

Godge

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree with him that the recovery was delayed, Labour getting in and then being charged with welfare and public service :rolleyes: They wanted to prolong the austerity budgets and also wanted to increase tax, rather than cut welfare, ps pay or services...

He didn't say the recovery was delayed. He said there was a double-dip recession.

Either

(1) he was lying, or
(2) he doesn't understand what he is saying, or
(3) he hasn't a clue about economics.

Just wondering which it is.

joe912

BOHtox wrote: »

Firstly jobs are always created in the private sector. Governments strive to create the right conditions for job creation.

Simon Coveney has done a great job in agriculture. 10,000 jobs will be created by the abolition of milk quotas. More jobs are surely to come as we have become the only EU country whose beef is allowed entry to the US and Chinese markets. That's just in agriculture.

Sinn Fein propose:

A) Making it harder for small businesses to employ people by increasing employers' PRSI. FG has done the opposite. They have reduced it, made low-paid workers exempt and this has made it easier for companies to hire more people. This helps jobs in small businesses and retail which took massive hits during the recession.

Increased levels of taxation. Sinn Fein have commited to a wealth tax, a higher third rate of tax, increased capital gains tax and much more. This would be detrimental to job creation. Who would want to work in Ireland paying such high-levels of taxation? The best and the brightest leaving this country are not leaving because they can't find a job, they are leaving because they see that if they go do the same job in the UK for the same pay, they will come out with more money in their pockets after tax. FG's tax reduction policies will lead to 20,000 jobs alone. Not taking in to account any other policy, simply the reduction of tax will lead to 20,000 jobs.


Over 27,000 jobs in export-lead business is to be created in 2015. Lower taxes, a reduction in red tape and skilled workers are leading this surge. There is not going to an economy based on a property boom any more nor will we build an economy on high taxes as proposed by Sinn Fein. Ireland are the 4th best country in which to do business, according to Forbes, and we should be looking to climb up that list, not fall!

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

joe912

Banjo String wrote: »

People who spoil their vote have absolutely no right complaining on the current or future political makeup.

Ditto for those not bothering to get up off their rear ends and head down to a polling booth.

Think the point she was making was that successive f.f or f.g and lab were indistinguishable and regardless of which version of right wing government was in control the winners and losers remained the same

Godge

joe912 wrote: »

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

Any luck finding the missing double-dip recession?

I have to laugh at SF economic experts coming on here and rubbishing the government's achievements when they have a spokesperson who doesn't even seem to be able to understand the simplest economic facts.

hmmm

joe912 wrote: »

Think the point she was making was that successive f.f or f.g and lab were indistinguishable and regardless of which version of right wing government was in control the winners and losers remained the same

And she'd be wrong - not voting is an excuse for pure laziness. No party is perfect, but they are all different.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

You must have misread my post because I wrote 5 paragraphs and you address two points I didn't make

Boulevardier

Isn't Noonan something else? This is the guy who bullied Brigid McCole on her deathbed. Now he is busy telling the Greeks, who should be our allies, they should not be asking for a write-down. Instead of a write-down for us, he is making the banks profitable. He is doing this by allowing them to screw variable-rate mortgage holders. In my books, that is just another bank bailout, this time at home-buyers' expense. What a great guy.

Galwayguy35

joe912 wrote: »

You may believe this. But for people not members of the finegael club of corruption, manipulation and lies it doesn't ring true in the real world.

Speaking of lies, I doubt many would want to see SF in power when their leader still refuses to admit he was in the IRA.

I didn't vote for either FG or Lab but to be fair to them they have turned things around in the last few years.

I mean compare where we are now and where were were at the end of 2010 when it was announced that the IMF were here.

BoJack Horseman

Boulevardier wrote: »

he is making the banks profitable. He is doing this by allowing them to screw variable-rate mortgage holders.

Naked populism at the boardroom at the expense of sustainability & profitability is the very worst way of making a bank attractive for investment.

This year PermTSB will bay back the Irish people €400m they owe us.

I'm glad the bank has been allowed to get back on its feet & not be at the whim of what looks good on bar-stools or theJournal.ie

Ren2k7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And the shinners would be a safer bet with the public finances would they?

Unlike FF/FF/Lab who have done such a bang up job since 1922 eh? :rolleyes:

joe912

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Speaking of lies, I doubt many would want to see SF in power when their leader still refuses to admit he was in the IRA.

I didn't vote for either FG or Lab but to be fair to them they have turned things around in the last few years.

I mean compare where we are now and where were were at the end of 2010 when it was announced that the IMF were here.

And if you compared it to where we where in 2006. We should bring back f.f and the greens poster boys for how a European economy should be run.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

And if you compared it to where we where in 2006. We should bring back f.f and the greens poster boys for how a European economy should be run.

Why don't you outline what you would like to see? Specifically. Taxation and expenditure measures.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Naked populism at the boardroom at the expense of sustainability & profitability is the very worst way of making a bank attractive for investment.

This year PermTSB will bay back the Irish people €400m they owe us.

I'm glad the bank has been allowed to get back on its feet & not be at the whim of what looks good on bar-stools or theJournal.ie

It's interesting you mention naked populism when we have a government who once the deficit is now at a manageable level decide giveaway budgets are the order of the day. Remember what happened when FF thought low taxes and high spending was a good idea?

BoJack Horseman

Ren2k7 wrote: »

It's interesting you mention naked populism when we have a government who once the deficit is now at a manageable level decide giveaway budgets are the order of the day. Remember what happened when FF thought low taxes and high spending was a good idea?

It may have escaped your notice, but politicians require election!

The party that doesn't promise the goodies is the party that loses.

It is important to note that the deficit was dealt with.
The far-left opposition promised to increase the deficit.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It may have escaped your notice, but politicians require election!

The party that doesn't promise the goodies is the party that loses.

It is important to note that the deficit was dealt with.
The far-left opposition promised to increase the deficit.

Ah right, so we're now expected to elect parties that will invariably bankrupt the country yet again? Remind me why FG's brand of populism (low taxes, high spending) is any worse than SF's? At least the Shinners would would be able to pay for their rampant spending with high taxation. It's like this bloody country hasn't learned a thing from the past seven years.

BoJack Horseman

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Ah right, so we're now expected to elect parties that will invariably bankrupt the country yet again?

Paddy likes to be bribed with his own money.

However I doubt FG intend on running up a €12bn+ deficit like they inherited from FF.... That would take some about turn!

I thought Shinnernomics said taxation was a thing of the past?

Dwarf.Shortage

Rubberchikken wrote: »

have never heard the term 'spring statement' beore or maybe i've been asleep.
still, not worth the paper it was written on imho.

all they're doing is playing with figures, slapping each other on the backs and making out that they actually did something positive for this country during theirm govt term so far.

who will replace them? another crowd of back slapping, pocket lining ninnies.
for the first time ever, i'm thinking my vote will be a complete waste of time when this GE occurs.

Then run.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Paddy likes to be bribed with his own money.

However I doubt FG intend on running up a €12bn+ deficit like they inherited from FF.... That would take some about turn!

I thought Shinnernomics said taxation was a thing of the past?

Where did they say that?

BoJack Horseman

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Where did they say that?

Everywhere.

They've been promising a reversal of austerity taxes for 5 years now.

Just 1 year to go, I can't wait.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Everywhere.

They've been promising a reversal of austerity taxes for 5 years now.

Just 1 year to go, I can't wait.

They've also promised to tax the shyte out of anyone earning over 100k a year to pay for their rolling back of USC. I don't agree with their economics but at least they want to balance their spending with high taxes, unlike FF/FG/Lab and their insane low taxes/high spending mantra. Let's not forget which parties have bankrupted this country on multiple occasions. Hint: it wasn't de Shinners!

Dwarf.Shortage

I find when you hear the phrase "wealth tax" you can essentially stop listening; DIRT, CGT, CAT, Stamp Duty and an income tax system with a top marginal rate above 50% all disproportionately hit the wealthy. We have wealth tax and plenty of it, it's just we levy it on anyone who dares earn north of about €40,000 a year or make any investments outside of a tax exempt pensions vehicle.

What would the shinners have as the top rate of tax? 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100%? A party of rhetoric who haven't a notion and would be signing their own death warrant by getting into power because the extent of their incompetence would be laid bare.

Ren2k7

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I find when you hear the phrase "wealth tax" you can essentially stop listening; DIRT, CGT, CAT, Stamp Duty and an income tax system with a top marginal rate above 50% all disproportionately hit the wealthy. We have wealth tax and plenty of it, it's just we levy it on anyone who dares earn north of about €40,000 a year or make any investments outside of a tax exempt pensions vehicle.

What would the shinners have as the top rate of tax? 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100%? A party of rhetoric who haven't a notion and would be signing their own death warrant by getting into power because the extent of their incompetence would be laid bare.

This literally took me less than a minute to find out:

Amongst our proposals are the introduction of a third rate of income tax of 48% on income over €100,000, the introduction of a 1% wealth tax on assets valued at over €1 million, the standardisation of all discretionary tax reliefs, the capping of public sector salaries at €100,000, increases of 10% in both Capital Gains and Capital Acquisitions taxes, and a cut in the salaries of government Ministers, TD's and Senators. We completely oppose the introduction of the property tax and water charges.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

Dwarf.Shortage

Ren2k7 wrote: »

This literally took me less than a minute to find out:



http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

From their economic mission statement on their own website.

"In the Six Counties, Sinn Féin wants to see the introduction fo tax varying and borrowing powers ot enable the Executive to generate income and stimulate the economy. Securing this will greatly enhance the economic outlook for all the people of Ireland, and will open up the possibility to implement a full and detailed all-Ireland economic growth plan. We are continuing to push the Britihs government to follow through on its commitment to deliver a peace dividend of £18 billion by 2018."

Sure give them the keys.

Ren2k7

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

"In the Six Counties, Sinn Féin wants to see the introduction fo tax varying and borrowing powers ot enable the Executive to generate income and stimulate the economy. Securing this will greatly enhance the economic outlook for all the people of Ireland, and will open up the possibility to implement a full and detailed all-Ireland economic growth plan. We are continuing to push the Britihs government to follow through on its commitment to deliver a peace dividend of £18 billion by 2018."

Sure give them the keys.

You're complaining of a few typos on a website rather than addressing their taxation plans? Getting a tad desperate. :rolleyes:

It should be pointed out of course that SF's taxation are quite timid in comparison with other countries.....like Sweden where they have a top rate of income tax of 56% for all those earning more than €66,400. :eek:

BOHtox

Ren2k7 wrote: »

This literally took me less than a minute to find out:



http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

Ren2k7 wrote: »

You're complaining of a few typos on a website rather than addressing their taxation plans? Getting a tad desperate. :rolleyes:

It should be pointed out of course that SF's taxation are quite timid in comparison with other countries.....like Sweden where they have a top rate of income tax of 56% for all those earning more than €66,400. :eek:

48+USC (8%) + PRSI (4%) is an effective rate of 60%.

And in fairness we had a top rate of 52% for people earning 32,800 until last year's budget