The Spring Statement

blackwhite

So with Noonan and Howlin having made their speeches, and seemingly told us SFA that hasn't already been repeated ad nauseum in the last few weeks/months anyway - what are people's thoughts on the usefulness (or otherwise) of this exercise?

To me (as someone who - on balance - feels that the Government have done a reasonably decent job over the past four years), the Spring Statement seems to have been a bit of a PR own goal by the Government.

They didn't reveal anything new or of any real substance, despite having hyped the bejaysus out of it, and have just left themselves open to criticism and sniping for all the things that people have expected/hoped for (no matter whether these hopes/expectations were realistic, or even genuine).

To me, they've have been better served to keep the good news coming in the normal manner, instead of setting up one big non-event.

Yet another example of this Government, despite having what should be a good-news story to tell, managing to make a balls of the PR side of things.

Arsemageddon

Think you it in one OP.

All in all it comes across as a very silly, pointless marketing exercise.

I can't see it having any lasting impact on the electorate. TBH, I can't see many people taking much notice of it outside of those who follow politics.

They would have been better off saving their good news until the budget when people will be engaged.

Muahahaha

Complete PR exercise which has seemed to backfired already. FG/Lab are very keen to control the news agenda. This week was supposed to be a feel good week with Monday dedicated to launching the Yes vote for gay marriage and today was supposed to outline their economic objectives from now to 2020 to tempt voters with tax cuts.

What instead transpired was no new news from the govt. as the cabinet had already spent most of last week leaking details of the spring statement to the media. Instead what we had today was all of the opposition taking the goverment to task over their unkept promises and giving the govt. another battering over appointing KPMG as the insiders to investigate the insiders in the Siteserv debacle.

joe912

Why are they telling us about their plans for 2017-2020. Thankfully they will be nowhere near leinster house let alone the government.

Kermit.de.frog

Who are we going to elect if the current government is not there?

How long would the public finances be out of chaos under that regime?

The opposition don't offer anything but the same economic delinquency that destroyed this country in 2008.

Valetta

joe912 wrote: »

Why are they telling us about their plans for 2017-2020. Thankfully they will be nowhere near leinster house let alone the government.

You think?

Who'll replace them?

Stheno

Valetta wrote: »

You think?

Who'll replace them?

I wonder the same. While never having supported either party in the past their statements today show serious progress in our economy

Never recalling a spring statement before I do see it as a bit of a stunt, was it intended to be a state of the nation type address? Or just a pre election stunt?

Valetta

Stheno wrote: »

I wonder the same. While never having supported either party in the past their statements today show serious progress in our economy

Never recalling a spring statement before I do see it as a bit of a stunt, was it intended to be a state of the nation type address? Or just a pre election stunt?

I think it's a trend to do away with surprise budgets. Last year they just leaked the full budget in advance. This time it's a more "formal" process with the spring statement.

Our friends over the pond to the same with their "autumn statement", in advance of their spring budget.

Sierra Oscar

Pretty disappointing that the Dáil has lost a week of legislative business to allow Government backbenchers to have the opportunity to slap themselves on the back.

joe912

Stheno wrote: »

I wonder the same. While never having supported either party in the past their statements today show serious progress in our economy

Never recalling a spring statement before I do see it as a bit of a stunt, was it intended to be a state of the nation type address? Or just a pre election stunt?

The serious progress as you call it was made while implementing policy agreed between f.f and the troika.
The progress was made on the back of Ireland being lucky that the euro dropped helping exports to u.k and u.s.a and other things outside the governments control like the price of oil falling and interest rates dropping.
Basically the progress is built on sand and with the help of a bit of creative bookkeeping.

joe912

Valetta wrote: »

You think?

Who'll replace them?

possibly sf./f.f. personally I would like to see a f.f/f.g coalition which would hopefully lead to the demise of f.f and f.g, with some sort of amalgamation between the 2 parties. so that the electorate had a clear and easy choice between left and right.

Kermit.de.frog

joe912 wrote: »

The serious progress as you call it was made while implementing policy agreed between f.f and the troika.
The progress was made on the back of Ireland being lucky that the euro dropped helping exports to u.k and u.s.a and other things outside the governments control like the price of oil falling and interest rates dropping.
Basically the progress is built on sand and with the help of a bit of creative bookkeeping.

And the shinners would be a safer bet with the public finances would they?

blackwhite

joe912 wrote: »

The serious progress as you call it was made while implementing policy agreed between f.f and the troika.
The progress was made on the back of Ireland being lucky that the euro dropped helping exports to u.k and u.s.a and other things outside the governments control like the price of oil falling and interest rates dropping.
Basically the progress is built on sand and with the help of a bit of creative bookkeeping.

It's always strange to hear SF supporters claiming that the recovery is only due to FG/Lab following the troika programme, when for the last 5/6 years SF have been saying that we should have abandoned the troika programme.

Stheno

joe912 wrote: »

possibly sf./f.f. personally I would like to see a f.f/f.g coalition which would hopefully lead to the demise of f.f and f.g, with some sort of amalgamation between the 2 parties. so that the electorate had a clear and easy choice between left and right.

If I ever se Sinn Fein in government in this country I'll leave tbh

Whatever about labour I admire fg for having the guts to inflict what they did and encourage recovery

joe912

Stheno wrote: »

If I ever se Sinn Fein in government in this country I'll leave tbh

Whatever about labour I admire fg for having the guts to inflict what they did and encourage recovery

That's hilarious, the amount of f.g supporters who claim they are going to leave when sinn fein get into government.
You cant seriously put f.g and having guts in the one sentence. They feathered their nests and the nests of those who support them. They have alienated a large percentage of the population and through equal measures of incompetence and arrogance presided over serious public unrest which is still continuing.

joe912

blackwhite wrote: »

It's always strange to hear SF supporters claiming that the recovery is only due to FG/Lab following the troika programme, when for the last 5/6 years SF have been saying that we should have abandoned the troika programme.

Because the recovery is only benifiting on section of the community and has no long term benefits accept for those in government now who will retire on lavish pensions.
There is another way, only a recovery that takes everybody with it can be sustainable long term.

Fr Tod Umptious

joe912 wrote: »

Because the recovery is only benifiting on section of the community and has no long term benefits accept for those in government now who will retire on lavish pensions.
There is another way, only a recovery that takes everybody with it can be sustainable long term.

I assume you meant to say "the recovery is only benefiting one section of the community".

So can you tell us what that one section is.

Cos I have benefited but I'm not sure what section I am supposed to be ?

blackwhite

joe912 wrote: »

Because the recovery is only benifiting on section of the community and has no long term benefits accept for those in government now who will retire on lavish pensions.
There is another way, only a recovery that takes everybody with it can be sustainable long term.

Ignoring of course, that recovery has ensured that there's no need for further cuts to welfare (which has been largely spared anyway) and no need for further cuts to services.

It seems that SF and the rest of the "left" have been advocating policies that would have no recovery at all, making sure that there's amble pain for everyone.

BoJack Horseman

joe912 wrote: »

possibly sf./f.f. personally I would like to see a f.f/f.g coalition which would hopefully lead to the demise of f.f and f.g, with some sort of amalgamation between the 2 parties. so that the electorate had a clear and easy choice between left and right.

If its a choice between centre parties & the far left.... The centre wins.

It must also discouraging to the far-left delusionists that they opposed the progress currently underway.

Wrt the thread, aping the Westminster 'autumn statement' in an environment where every single idea implemented or not is leaked 24/7 is pointless.

Rubberchikken

have never heard the term 'spring statement' beore or maybe i've been asleep.
still, not worth the paper it was written on imho.

all they're doing is playing with figures, slapping each other on the backs and making out that they actually did something positive for this country during theirm govt term so far.

who will replace them? another crowd of back slapping, pocket lining ninnies.
for the first time ever, i'm thinking my vote will be a complete waste of time when this GE occurs.

BoJack Horseman

Rubberchikken wrote: »

they actually did something positive for this country during theirm govt term so far.

Primary budget deficit.... Eliminated
Fastest growing EU economy for 2014 & 15
Fastest rate of job creation in the EU.

These are facts.

What is also a fact is that the far-left opposition was against all of this progress.

Its also a fact that the far-left not only opposed this, they stated repeatedly their desire to make a bad situation worse.

So PR stunts aside from the government, to pretend that nothing positive has happened since 2011 is both wilfully blind & factually false.

julie385

Rubberchikken wrote: »

who will replace them? another crowd of back slapping, pocket lining ninnies.
for the first time ever, i'm thinking my vote will be a complete waste of time when this GE occurs.

I have spoiled my vote for the last few GEs.
I will not vote for FF/FG, and I don't believe SF will do any favours for Ireland.

Surely now is the time to end what is effectively a single party (FF/FG) State?

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

hmmm

julie385 wrote: »

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

You should stop clogging up the polling booths if you're not going to be an adult and vote for someone. Spoiling your vote is a whinge and a complete cop-out of the principles of democracy. If you're so sure your vote is wasted, there is nothing stopping you running yourself and we'll see how many votes you get.

Kristopherus

julie385 wrote: »

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

Nonsense, who/what does a spoilt vote benefit?

joe912

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Primary budget deficit.... Eliminated
Fastest growing EU economy for 2014 & 15
Fastest rate of job creation in the EU.

These are facts.

What is also a fact is that the far-left opposition was against all of this progress.

Its also a fact that the far-left not only opposed this, they stated repeatedly their desire to make a bad situation worse.

So PR stunts aside from the government, to pretend that nothing positive has happened since 2011 is both wilfully blind & factually false.

I will see your facts and raise you
Record youth unemployment
Record evictions and homeless
Record emigration
Record hospital waiting lists
Record numbers under the poverty line

BoJack Horseman

joe912 wrote: »

I will see your facts and raise you

can't wait!

Record youth unemployment

Record evictions and homeless

Evictions are too low.... Lower than peer countries.... including the UK.
(And I'm not sure what people refusing to pay their mortgage has to do with this or any government)
Expenditure on homeless services are €31,000 per person... per year!
The ratio of homeless to people working with homeless is 1:1!!

Record emigration

No.... Emigration is falling rapidly.... See CSO.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2014/#.VUDLJ8twYm8
(2015 stats not yet available, but likely to show further drops).

Record hospital waiting lists

no, waiting lists /bed lists peaked in 2010

Record numbers under the poverty line

As per guidelines, not having a weekly roast dinner & monthly piss up makes you in poverty (this is a fact)

Try harder!

joe912

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Primary budget deficit.... Eliminated
Fastest growing EU economy for 2014 & 15
Fastest rate of job creation in the EU.

These are facts.

What is also a fact is that the far-left opposition was against all of this progress.

Its also a fact that the far-left not only opposed this, they stated repeatedly their desire to make a bad situation worse.

So PR stunts aside from the government, to pretend that nothing positive has happened since 2011 is both wilfully blind & factually false.

So considering that this boom is a result of enda and his brilliant cabinet, can you point out which of their many creative, original and fair initiatives that were not part of the f.f troika package that you believe led to this boom.

joe912

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

can't wait!




Evictions are too low.... Lower than peer countries....
Expenditure on homeless services are €31,000 per year.
The ratio of homeless to people working with homeless is 1:1!!


No.... Emigration is falling rapidly.... See CAO.


no, waiting lists /bed lists peaked in 2010


As per guidelines, not having a weekly roast dinner & monthly piss up makes you in poverty (this is a fact)

Try harder!

You may believe this. But for people not members of the finegael club of corruption, manipulation and lies it doesn't ring true in the real world.

Godge

joe912 wrote: »

You may believe this. But for people not members of the finegael club of corruption, manipulation and lies it doesn't ring true in the real world.

joe912 wrote: »

That's hilarious, the amount of f.g supporters who claim they are going to leave when sinn fein get into government.
You cant seriously put f.g and having guts in the one sentence. They feathered their nests and the nests of those who support them. They have alienated a large percentage of the population and through equal measures of incompetence and arrogance presided over serious public unrest which is still continuing.

In the real world Pearse Doherty, the SF financial guru, has been talking about a double-dip recession that doesn't exist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-has-begun-buying-a-return-to-power-sinn-fein-31179055.html


"Mr Doherty said the Government caused "a double-dip recession" and delayed recovery."

Which planet is he on?

Valetta

julie385 wrote: »

I

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

A spoiled vote is not a vote at all.

It achieves nothing.

BoJack Horseman

joe912 wrote: »

You may believe this. But for people not members of the finegael club of corruption, manipulation and lies it doesn't ring true in the real world.

Well then kiddo..... Show us your numbers.

Unless the folks in the CSO aren't in the "real world" like you.

jank

Godge wrote: »

In the real world Pearse Doherty, the SF financial guru, has been talking about a double-dip recession that doesn't exist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-has-begun-buying-a-return-to-power-sinn-fein-31179055.html


"Mr Doherty said the Government caused "a double-dip recession" and delayed recovery."

Which planet is he on?

I would like to know this too!

There was no double dip recession but I suppose the shiners have been less than honest with the truth now.

In essence when their pals in Greece are being shown up for the amateur hour clowns that they are they have to reach for some other fairy tale.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

So considering that this boom is a result of enda and his brilliant cabinet, can you point out which of their many creative, original and fair initiatives that were not part of the f.f troika package that you believe led to this boom.

Firstly jobs are always created in the private sector. Governments strive to create the right conditions for job creation.

Simon Coveney has done a great job in agriculture. 10,000 jobs will be created by the abolition of milk quotas. More jobs are surely to come as we have become the only EU country whose beef is allowed entry to the US and Chinese markets. That's just in agriculture.

Sinn Fein propose:

A) Making it harder for small businesses to employ people by increasing employers' PRSI. FG has done the opposite. They have reduced it, made low-paid workers exempt and this has made it easier for companies to hire more people. This helps jobs in small businesses and retail which took massive hits during the recession.

Increased levels of taxation. Sinn Fein have commited to a wealth tax, a higher third rate of tax, increased capital gains tax and much more. This would be detrimental to job creation. Who would want to work in Ireland paying such high-levels of taxation? The best and the brightest leaving this country are not leaving because they can't find a job, they are leaving because they see that if they go do the same job in the UK for the same pay, they will come out with more money in their pockets after tax. FG's tax reduction policies will lead to 20,000 jobs alone. Not taking in to account any other policy, simply the reduction of tax will lead to 20,000 jobs.


Over 27,000 jobs in export-lead business is to be created in 2015. Lower taxes, a reduction in red tape and skilled workers are leading this surge. There is not going to an economy based on a property boom any more nor will we build an economy on high taxes as proposed by Sinn Fein. Ireland are the 4th best country in which to do business, according to Forbes, and we should be looking to climb up that list, not fall!

blackwhite

joe912 wrote: »

So considering that this boom is a result of enda and his brilliant cabinet, can you point out which of their many creative, original and fair initiatives that were not part of the f.f troika package that you believe led to this boom.

So all these successes have come about because they followed the policies that SF and the rest of the left wingers were promising to abandon?

Idbatterim

In the real world Pearse Doherty, the SF financial guru, has been talking about a double-dip recession that doesn't exist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-31179055.html


"Mr Doherty said the Government caused "a double-dip recession" and delayed recovery."

Which planet is he on?

I agree with him that the recovery was delayed, Labour getting in and then being charged with welfare and public service :rolleyes: They wanted to prolong the austerity budgets and also wanted to increase tax, rather than cut welfare, ps pay or services...

Banjo String

julie385 wrote: »

I have spoiled my vote for the last few GEs.
I will not vote for FF/FG, and I don't believe SF will do any favours for Ireland.

Surely now is the time to end what is effectively a single party (FF/FG) State?

A spoiled vote is not a wasted vote.

People who spoil their vote have absolutely no right complaining on the current or future political makeup.

Ditto for those not bothering to get up off their rear ends and head down to a polling booth.

Godge

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree with him that the recovery was delayed, Labour getting in and then being charged with welfare and public service :rolleyes: They wanted to prolong the austerity budgets and also wanted to increase tax, rather than cut welfare, ps pay or services...

He didn't say the recovery was delayed. He said there was a double-dip recession.

Either

(1) he was lying, or
(2) he doesn't understand what he is saying, or
(3) he hasn't a clue about economics.

Just wondering which it is.

joe912

BOHtox wrote: »

Firstly jobs are always created in the private sector. Governments strive to create the right conditions for job creation.

Simon Coveney has done a great job in agriculture. 10,000 jobs will be created by the abolition of milk quotas. More jobs are surely to come as we have become the only EU country whose beef is allowed entry to the US and Chinese markets. That's just in agriculture.

Sinn Fein propose:

A) Making it harder for small businesses to employ people by increasing employers' PRSI. FG has done the opposite. They have reduced it, made low-paid workers exempt and this has made it easier for companies to hire more people. This helps jobs in small businesses and retail which took massive hits during the recession.

Increased levels of taxation. Sinn Fein have commited to a wealth tax, a higher third rate of tax, increased capital gains tax and much more. This would be detrimental to job creation. Who would want to work in Ireland paying such high-levels of taxation? The best and the brightest leaving this country are not leaving because they can't find a job, they are leaving because they see that if they go do the same job in the UK for the same pay, they will come out with more money in their pockets after tax. FG's tax reduction policies will lead to 20,000 jobs alone. Not taking in to account any other policy, simply the reduction of tax will lead to 20,000 jobs.


Over 27,000 jobs in export-lead business is to be created in 2015. Lower taxes, a reduction in red tape and skilled workers are leading this surge. There is not going to an economy based on a property boom any more nor will we build an economy on high taxes as proposed by Sinn Fein. Ireland are the 4th best country in which to do business, according to Forbes, and we should be looking to climb up that list, not fall!

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

joe912

Banjo String wrote: »

People who spoil their vote have absolutely no right complaining on the current or future political makeup.

Ditto for those not bothering to get up off their rear ends and head down to a polling booth.

Think the point she was making was that successive f.f or f.g and lab were indistinguishable and regardless of which version of right wing government was in control the winners and losers remained the same

Godge

joe912 wrote: »

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

Any luck finding the missing double-dip recession?

I have to laugh at SF economic experts coming on here and rubbishing the government's achievements when they have a spokesperson who doesn't even seem to be able to understand the simplest economic facts.

hmmm

joe912 wrote: »

Think the point she was making was that successive f.f or f.g and lab were indistinguishable and regardless of which version of right wing government was in control the winners and losers remained the same

And she'd be wrong - not voting is an excuse for pure laziness. No party is perfect, but they are all different.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

So you mention the lifting of an e.u milk quota and exports due to the weak Euro, all of which were beyond the governments control. Now as a finegael cheerleader can you give me any of the examples I asked you for regarding original creative policy by this government. That justifies the government wasting the last two days slapping themselves on the back
If you can't I presume you will have a rant about sinn fein

You must have misread my post because I wrote 5 paragraphs and you address two points I didn't make

Boulevardier

Isn't Noonan something else? This is the guy who bullied Brigid McCole on her deathbed. Now he is busy telling the Greeks, who should be our allies, they should not be asking for a write-down. Instead of a write-down for us, he is making the banks profitable. He is doing this by allowing them to screw variable-rate mortgage holders. In my books, that is just another bank bailout, this time at home-buyers' expense. What a great guy.

Galwayguy35

joe912 wrote: »

You may believe this. But for people not members of the finegael club of corruption, manipulation and lies it doesn't ring true in the real world.

Speaking of lies, I doubt many would want to see SF in power when their leader still refuses to admit he was in the IRA.

I didn't vote for either FG or Lab but to be fair to them they have turned things around in the last few years.

I mean compare where we are now and where were were at the end of 2010 when it was announced that the IMF were here.

BoJack Horseman

Boulevardier wrote: »

he is making the banks profitable. He is doing this by allowing them to screw variable-rate mortgage holders.

Naked populism at the boardroom at the expense of sustainability & profitability is the very worst way of making a bank attractive for investment.

This year PermTSB will bay back the Irish people €400m they owe us.

I'm glad the bank has been allowed to get back on its feet & not be at the whim of what looks good on bar-stools or theJournal.ie

Ren2k7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And the shinners would be a safer bet with the public finances would they?

Unlike FF/FF/Lab who have done such a bang up job since 1922 eh? :rolleyes:

joe912

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Speaking of lies, I doubt many would want to see SF in power when their leader still refuses to admit he was in the IRA.

I didn't vote for either FG or Lab but to be fair to them they have turned things around in the last few years.

I mean compare where we are now and where were were at the end of 2010 when it was announced that the IMF were here.

And if you compared it to where we where in 2006. We should bring back f.f and the greens poster boys for how a European economy should be run.

BOHtox

joe912 wrote: »

And if you compared it to where we where in 2006. We should bring back f.f and the greens poster boys for how a European economy should be run.

Why don't you outline what you would like to see? Specifically. Taxation and expenditure measures.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Naked populism at the boardroom at the expense of sustainability & profitability is the very worst way of making a bank attractive for investment.

This year PermTSB will bay back the Irish people €400m they owe us.

I'm glad the bank has been allowed to get back on its feet & not be at the whim of what looks good on bar-stools or theJournal.ie

It's interesting you mention naked populism when we have a government who once the deficit is now at a manageable level decide giveaway budgets are the order of the day. Remember what happened when FF thought low taxes and high spending was a good idea?

BoJack Horseman

Ren2k7 wrote: »

It's interesting you mention naked populism when we have a government who once the deficit is now at a manageable level decide giveaway budgets are the order of the day. Remember what happened when FF thought low taxes and high spending was a good idea?

It may have escaped your notice, but politicians require election!

The party that doesn't promise the goodies is the party that loses.

It is important to note that the deficit was dealt with.
The far-left opposition promised to increase the deficit.

Ren2k7

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It may have escaped your notice, but politicians require election!

The party that doesn't promise the goodies is the party that loses.

It is important to note that the deficit was dealt with.
The far-left opposition promised to increase the deficit.

Ah right, so we're now expected to elect parties that will invariably bankrupt the country yet again? Remind me why FG's brand of populism (low taxes, high spending) is any worse than SF's? At least the Shinners would would be able to pay for their rampant spending with high taxation. It's like this bloody country hasn't learned a thing from the past seven years.