Is it worth getting Health Insurance?

Warper

Is it, i am 38 and was thinking about getting insurance for the first time before the end of the month to avoid loading charges. The basic pack is 400 p.a. roughly. Is it worth getting the basic package? The maximum a public patient can be charged for a hospital bed in any 12 months is €750. So why should someone pay 400 a year, what other advantages are there? Do you get looked at before a public patient or is that a higher plan? Confused

Alf Veedersane

My Dad is the healthiest person I know. Never gets sick. But in the last 12 months he needed his gall bladder removed and then needed another operation to fix something that went wrong in first operation. If he'd had no insurance it would have cost upwards of €3,000. His premium is €800.

I have a basic enough package but 18 months ago, having it cost me less than half what I would have had to pay without it.

Tl; dr you might not ever need medical treatment but if you do, it might be costly not having cover.

Greenmachine

Never been offered it in any jobs I have worked. I think it depends on a person, individuals circumstances, if it is worth their while. Pre-existing condition will likely have an exclusion period.

Warper

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

My Dad is the healthiest person I know. Never gets sick. But in the last 12 months he needed his gall bladder removed and then needed another operation to fix something that went wrong in first operation. If he'd had no insurance it would have cost upwards of €3,000. His premium is €800.

I have a basic enough package but 18 months ago, having it cost me less than half what I would have had to pay without it.

Tl; dr you might not ever need medical treatment but if you do, it might be costly not having cover.

Thanks for the response. Your dads example is a good one, i hope he is ok btw. But with a premium of 800 the rare operation would be approx 3.5 yrs of insurance. I just dont know if its worth it or not, i am just planning on getting the basic insurance which im not really even sure what it covers - i know a public hospital bed and so much towards a consultant cost but thats about it asfaik.

nice_guy80

plus consultant visit costs before and after operation.

I don't have insurance, but with this community rating craic I'm having to consider it

Alf Veedersane

It's like any insurance. You might never need it but not having it could end up very costly.

beertons

Have a look at the hospital Saturday fund, hsf.ie.

There's 4 of is on it here, 2 kids, and we're all covered for 50 a month. More of the day to day stuff is covered imo.

guile4582

beertons wrote: »

Have a look at the hospital Saturday fund, hsf.ie.

There's 4 of is on it here, 2 kids, and we're all covered for 50 a month. More of the day to day stuff is covered imo.

this fund (health cash plan) does not count towards LCR, be warned.

neddynasty

Yes it's worth getting it. I've always had health insurance through work but had an attitude of I don't really need it, I'm young (33), waste of money really, I'm always fit and healthy. Last year, out of the blue i was really sick and required a few hospital stays and an operation. It was all covered by the health insurance. Got the invoice from the Health Insurance company afterwards listing what they had paid for. Between, operation, hospital bed, various scans, blood tests, transfusions etc it came in at just over €15k. Would have taken me years to pay that off without insurance.

irishlady29

Like you OP I wondered was there any point in having health insurance. I was paying out over €100 a month. I was very close to cancelling it as it was a struggle to pay. Thank God I didn't. At 32 years of age, never sick in my life, I was diagnosed with Cancer. I would urge everybody to have some sort of cover.

Warper

How much are people paying? The basic is 400 per year, is this enough for adequate cover?

Alf Veedersane

Bout fi' fiddy a year.

AwayWithFaries

Warper wrote: »

The maximum a public patient can be charged for a hospital bed in any 12 months is €750.

This is why I don't understand health insurance in Ireland. It's not worth much value to have it. You ending up paying less if you don't have it.

Alf Veedersane

AwayWithFaries wrote: »

This is why I don't understand health insurance in Ireland. It's not worth much value to have it. You ending up paying less if you don't have it.

You can be charged for more than just the bed.

AwayWithFaries

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You can be charged for more than just the bed.

What else can yo be charge for? I know MRIs, CT scans, blood tests are covered for starters.

jlm29

The main reason I'd advocate having insurance is access. If you need a non-urgent surgery, you'll wait a long time for it as a public pt, and it may impact on your ability to work, participate in hobbies etc. if you have private cover, it'll be done much faster.

jester77

400 p.a. is very very cheap, I pay a lot more than that per month here. It is definitely worth it, especially as you get older.

guile4582

jlm29 wrote: »

The main reason I'd advocate having insurance is access. If you need a non-urgent surgery, you'll wait a long time for it as a public pt, and it may impact on your ability to work, participate in hobbies etc. if you have private cover, it'll be done much faster.

add to that you can avail of a semi private/private bed in a public hospital and some private hospitals.

I have Laya through work as a BIK and added a low cost HSF plan to prop it up on the day to day stuff. I believe it is definitely worth it.

sure, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow

guile4582

GloHealth: Orla wrote: »

@Warper
if you wait until after 1st May to take out cover, you would have to pay an additional 6% on top of your premium this year, 8% next year, 10% the year after and so on.

are you sure? 2 % increments per year for the rest of your life even though you have taken out cover???

Alf Veedersane

AwayWithFaries wrote: »

What else can yo be charge for? I know MRIs, CT scans, blood tests are covered for starters.

In the example I gave with my father, the cost he'd have incurred without insurance would have been 4+ times his annual premium.

The gall bladder removal wouldn't have been covered.

Alf Veedersane

guile4582 wrote: »

are you sure? 2 % increments per year for the rest of your life even though you have taken out cover???

No, it applies to people taking out insurance that haven't had it until that point. It's 2% for every year over the age of 35. So the OP would pay 6% if he took out insurance after April 30th while he is still 38.

But that 6% is added every year thereafter. It doesn't increase.

guile4582

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

No, it applies to people taking out insurance that haven't had it until that point. It's 2% for every year over the age of 35. So the OP would pay 6% if he took out insurance after April 30th while he is still 38.

But that 6% is added every year thereafter. It doesn't increase.

as i thought, but Orla (who is probably a sales agent) should of worded it correctly.

or is it just me

Stone Deaf 4evr

I've been paying my own health insurance for the last 10 years, and I dont regret a single cent spent on it. and on balance I reckon I've saved more money than I would have spent initially. There was also an option of including travel insurance or other options to the cover.

the policy I got was great for the whole family - the two kids were covered for free until they were 3 years old, both had different illnesses ranging from reflux, to a severe bout of croup. in both cases they were admitted to a private hospital, and sorted immediately. In said hospital, an xray was done, and the results were with the doctor before we had made the journey from the xray room to the ward.

I also had a few issues that whilst not an apparent health risk - I got checked out all the same - full cardio screening etc.

lilblackdress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In the example I gave with my father, the cost he'd have incurred without insurance would have been 4+ times his annual premium.

The gall bladder removal wouldn't have been covered.

Was this done is a private or public hospital out of curiosity?

Alf Veedersane

lilblackdress wrote: »

Was this done is a private or public hospital out of curiosity?

I think it was public but because it was the surgeon's next available slot for doing it.

daheff

neddynasty wrote: »

Yes it's worth getting it. I've always had health insurance through work but had an attitude of I don't really need it, I'm young (33), waste of money really, I'm always fit and healthy. Last year, out of the blue i was really sick and required a few hospital stays and an operation. It was all covered by the health insurance. Got the invoice from the Health Insurance company afterwards listing what they had paid for. Between, operation, hospital bed, various scans, blood tests, transfusions etc it came in at just over €15k. Would have taken me years to pay that off without insurance.

The health system charges insurance companies a different rate to that which you would have had to pay. From what I know of the 750 Eur amount quoted before, that this is a maximum per person in any given year (75 eur per night for a max of 10 nights) and covers all the costs involved in that stay. Its also tax deductable (i believe, so you can claim 20% back)

irishlady29 wrote: »

Like you OP I wondered was there any point in having health insurance. I was paying out over €100 a month. I was very close to cancelling it as it was a struggle to pay. Thank God I didn't. At 32 years of age, never sick in my life, I was diagnosed with Cancer. I would urge everybody to have some sort of cover.

In fairness to the irish health system, if you have cancer you get looked after extremely well in the hospitals and dont have to wait around for months to be seen. You dont say whether you have recovered or not from the cancer, but I wish you well in fighting it.

jlm29 wrote: »

The main reason I'd advocate having insurance is access. If you need a non-urgent surgery, you'll wait a long time for it as a public pt, and it may impact on your ability to work, participate in hobbies etc. if you have private cover, it'll be done much faster.

I think this is the main reason for having insurance, in that for non urgent issues, you can have them treated quicker than on the public system. In the vast majority of cases, any treatment you have privately will be provided by the same health care professionals as you would have had publicly.

lilblackdress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I think it was public but because it was the surgeon's next available slot for doing it.

Public hospitals have a cap of €750 per year. All costs including scans/medications/procedures are covered.

The way I see it, the reasons to have health insurance are to get appointments quicker and for minor issues that take a while to sort in the public hospitals.... oh and to see a consultant instead of a reg/SHO who may actually be more up to date with their knowledge and practices.

If you are sick enough to be in hospital, private or not you get looked after. If you need a series of massive operations, if you are on life support and meds all costing thousands a day you get them whether you are private or public.

I do not and will not get private health insurance (by choice) and have very serious beliefs against same. But they are my beliefs so I wont even go in to it! I may regret that decision one day but for now and the foreseeable future I will not have private health insurance.

irishlady29

daheff wrote:

In fairness to the irish health system, if you have cancer you get looked after extremely well in the hospitals and dont have to wait around for months to be seen. You dont say whether you have recovered or not from the cancer, but I wish you well in fighting it.

daheff wrote:

In fairness to the irish health system, if you have cancer you get looked after extremely well in the hospitals and dont have to wait around for months to be seen. You dont say whether you have recovered or not from the cancer, but I wish you well in fighting it.

Thankfully I got the all clear a few months back, 18 months after diagnosis. My experience was very positive, once your in the system, you are well looked after. Without insurance I may have had a very different experience.

Alf Veedersane

lilblackdress wrote: »

Public hospitals have a cap of €750 per year. All costs including scans/medications/procedures are covered.

The way I see it, the reasons to have health insurance are to get appointments quicker and for minor issues that take a while to sort in the public hospitals.... oh and to see a consultant instead of a reg/SHO who may actually be more up to date with their knowledge and practices.

If you are sick enough to be in hospital, private or not you get looked after. If you need a series of massive operations, if you are on life support and meds all costing thousands a day you get them whether you are private or public.

I do not and will not get private health insurance (by choice) and have very serious beliefs against same. But they are my beliefs so I wont even go in to it! I may regret that decision one day but for now and the foreseeable future I will not have private health insurance.

He may have eventually be seen had he no insurance but given the discomfort he was in, I wouldn't fancy him having to wait those months/years to be addressed.

The cap is 75 per night for a max of ten nights. It wouldn't have covered the operation nor the subsequent operation.

So yes, he might eventually have been seen to but it's likely it would have become a serious issue to be dealt with ASAP before he'd have been seen to in due course.

lilblackdress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He may have eventually be seen had he no insurance but given the discomfort he was in, I wouldn't fancy him having to wait those months/years to be addressed.

The cap is 75 per night for a max of ten nights. It wouldn't have covered the operation nor the subsequent operation.

So yes, he might eventually have been seen to but it's likely it would have become a serious issue to be dealt with ASAP before he'd have been seen to in due course.

Sorry but the cap is 750 a year which means the whole year.... including ALL care. It would have covered the operations.

allthedoyles

Joining a base plan and expecting to see a consultant faster is not necessarily true .

Because in an emergency , you can always ring a consultant and make an appointment , and pay fee ( normally €150 max - first visit )

I have looked at most insurers plans ,and can't see much benefit in spending €400 per annum for whats on offer.

I pay VHI Plan P , and after that pay for consultants as necessary.

byhookorbycrook

I again, would have been healthy as a trout up to a few years back. I was diagnosed with MS and my monthly treatment is covered by VHI (€2,500 a go, not counting 3 monthly MRIs)

The number of public patients receiving this treatment is capped, depending on where you live, so you may not get it as a public patient at all. Without it, I would be in a wheelchair by now, but I continue to work and lead a reasonably independent life.

It's like anything, we shouldn't have to pay, it's unfair that as a private patient I can get it when some others can't but I couldn't be without it.

Alf Veedersane

lilblackdress wrote: »

Sorry but the cap is 750 a year which means the whole year.... including ALL care. It would have covered the operations.

According to this it's €75/day, capped at €750 in a 12-month period

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/hospital_services/hospital_charges.html

But that's beside the point, which is that a) the costs incurred were significantly higher and b) waiting to be seen publicly would have meant a much longer wait to be seen. And the level of discomfort meant waiting for months wasn't a very palatable option.

You don't have to take up insurance. I'm just offering a perspective of someone who benefitted from having it.

Uncle Ben

That bloke who runs the health insurance comparison site was on the news this morning. His view that the basic plan which is getting plenty of air time is just that, 'basic'.
He recommended policies from €900 upwards and for people to shop around and to examine closely what's on offer.

As one of the commentators remarked, it's akin to the govt pushing the salmon into the private health care net's.

ted1

Warper wrote: »

Is it, i am 38 and was thinking about getting insurance for the first time before the end of the month to avoid loading charges. The basic pack is 400 p.a. roughly. Is it worth getting the basic package? The maximum a public patient can be charged for a hospital bed in any 12 months is €750. So why should someone pay 400 a year, what other advantages are there? Do you get looked at before a public patient or is that a higher plan? Confused

Shorter waiting lists if you go private. Access to consultants

ectoraige

What I'm concerned about is should there be a move towards mandatory health insurance will the people like me over 35 who don't spend money to be able to jump ahead of poorer people end up being penalised?

liquoriceall

I recommend you decide what you need from a health insurance plan and go check out that comparison website
Im in my 30s very healthy so I needed a plan that covered Day surgery in a private hospital, scans in a private hospital and semi private in a public hospital. I have an excess of 150€ which is acceptable to me. I am with Vhi on a one plan its €1100 approx per year
The benefits are getting scans in weeks vs 12 or 18 months public system, seeing consultant quicker and quicker access to things like colonoscopy

Zamboni

Warper wrote: »

Is it, i am 38 and was thinking about getting insurance for the first time before the end of the month to avoid loading charges. The basic pack is 400 p.a. roughly. Is it worth getting the basic package? The maximum a public patient can be charged for a hospital bed in any 12 months is €750. So why should someone pay 400 a year, what other advantages are there? Do you get looked at before a public patient or is that a higher plan? Confused

This is a relatively complex area for the average punter purposely convoluted by the insurance industry with thousands of plans.
Anyone over 34 should take the next week and read, read, read.

Plenty of people take out insurance and then go privately for referrals via their GP and don't understand why they get hit with consultant, anesthetist bills.
If you don't have a basic understanding of insurance read up on terms like excess. If you come across a term you don't understand go here http://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/jargon-buster

Understand the difference between private and public. It is not as straightforward as you may think.

Check if your employer has a group scheme. They might be a group discount above the standard tax relief.

Be informed prior to undertaking any surgery and check with insurance provider before committing.

Risk Equalisation: This is where the semi-state VHI were run into the sh1t by well paid management and ended up with lots of old people on their books. Now everybody else has to pay for it. They say the other companies have to pay for it, but in practice it just gets spread over all policies and we stump up the cost.

Lifetime Community Rating LCR: This is where the state drastically increased unemployment in the 18-40 bracket over the last 7 years (2 governments) and they all left private health insurance. LCR was invented as the states method to get blood from a stone and further punish you for not having private health insurance because they cannot implement a free healthcare system. Hell, they can't even do it for under 5s with GPs.
Basically, its a punishment for being poor.

Finally, understand the word "elective"

Toto Wolfcastle

jlm29 wrote: »

The main reason I'd advocate having insurance is access. If you need a non-urgent surgery, you'll wait a long time for it as a public pt, and it may impact on your ability to work, participate in hobbies etc. if you have private cover, it'll be done much faster.

Yep, my husband has had knee issues for a long time and they're only getting worse. He knows he'll need replacements but he's too young. Every couple of months he gets expensive treatment that means he'll have a bit of relief to allow him to continue to work and just have a life. He's able to judge himself when he needs it so he calls the private hospital and books himself in for a couple of weeks later. Then the letter from VHI arrives a couple of weeks after that telling him how much they paid the hospital. We couldn't afford that treatment ourselves as often as he needs it. On top of that they pay for any surgeries he needs and most of the cost of his replacements will be paid for when the time comes. It's a small price to pay to give him a better quality of life, keep him out of a wheelchair and push back the need for replacements.

cros13

allthedoyles wrote: »

I pay VHI Plan P , and after that pay for consultants as necessary.

Plan P is very risky. It's not a hospital plan, so for the purposes of waiting periods and for the lifetime community rating it is not counted. Therefore you are at risk in May of having the loading applied if you want to move back to a real plan.

Also if that consultant was to operate on you in a public hospital you would either have to join the public list or face the consultants fees (several thousand euro), any other professional fees (more thousands of euro) and up to ~€1000 PER NIGHT for the pleasure of a bed in a public hospital (because you may have to pay semi-private or private rates depending on what wards the consultant serves).

GloHealth: Orla wrote: »

If you don't take out health insurance by April 30th and you are over 34 then you will have to pay an extra 2% on the cost of your premium each year until you take out health cover. If you take out health insurance by April 30th then you will not be subject to any additional charges (loadings).

Well to be more accurate it's 2% FOR every year you are over 34 up to a maximum of 70%. So someone who is 64 and has never had health insurance, who takes it out after April 30th will have to pay 60% higher premiums on any health insurance for the rest of their life.
Previous health insurance (even in childhood) or periods of time on social welfare will provide credits reducing the loading.
For every full year you were covered by health insurance your "effective age" for the purposes of LCR will decrease by a year.

There is a 9-month grace period during which no loading will be applied if you are returning to the country after living abroad. And waiting periods for pre-existing conditions will be reduced after April 30th.

Personally, I'd have no problem with a tax rise if we could do away with the whole system and go single-payer. And from the people I've spoken to about it (including a few with multi-million euro tax bills) I've yet to meet someone who would object.
So why aren't we doing it?

Sangre

The alternative to no insurance is self-insurance. That means that if elect not to buy insurance you should have sufficient cash reserves to to pay for any medical expenses, including funding yourself if you can no longer work.

Tar.Aldarion

I have it through work and it is great peace of mind. I would suggest looking through hia.ie to compare plans, it is great. Pick a corporate plan as they tend to be better deals.

NIMAN

My OH and kids are on my (UK) company health insurance. She is 37.

Should she consider taking out her own (basic) policy?

Caliden

Sangre wrote: »

The alternative to no insurance is self-insurance. That means that if elect not to buy insurance you should have sufficient cash reserves to to pay for any medical expenses, including funding yourself if you can no longer work.

What health plans have income protection?

allthedoyles

Caliden wrote: »

What health plans have income protection?

Income protection is different and neither VHI ,Laya , nor Glo cover this in any plans .

fits

cros13 wrote: »

There is a 9-month grace period during which no loading will be applied if you are returning to the country after living abroad. And waiting periods for pre-existing conditions will be reduced after April 30th.

I am working abroad on contract and am covered through my company. I also spend a lot of time in Ireland and hope to move back full time. I have paid health insurance for last 2.5 years to avoid losing my waiting periods as I have some issues which I am afraid could blow up overnight. Where can I find out about the waiting periods so I can find out if it is safe to let my irish cover lapse at renewal time?

jlm29

fits wrote: »

I am working abroad on contract and am covered through my company. I also spend a lot of time in Ireland and hope to move back full time. I have paid health insurance for last 2.5 years to avoid losing my waiting periods as I have some issues which I am afraid could blow up overnight. Where can I find out about the waiting periods so I can find out if it is safe to let my irish cover lapse at renewal time?

Try the citizens information website, or the hia website.

CarrickMcJoe

Have had health insurance since going self employed and paid off big time within the last year. Had a heart attack (don't smoke. drink little and walk every day and not overweight) and all costs for emergency ambulance, specialists and stents were covered.

Another thing people should look into is serious illness cover. My insurance broker talked me into it and I got a lump sum within 2 weeks of applying. That was with Zurich who were a pleasure to deal with.

Sangre

Caliden wrote: »

What health plans have income protection?

My point is that your cash reserves you have set aside for medical expenses should be separate from, or be large enough to include, an emergency fund to cover lost income. No point saving for medical expenses if its wiped out by just paying rent etc.

cros13

fits wrote: »

I am working abroad on contract and am covered through my company. I also spend a lot of time in Ireland and hope to move back full time. I have paid health insurance for last 2.5 years to avoid losing my waiting periods as I have some issues which I am afraid could blow up overnight. Where can I find out about the waiting periods so I can find out if it is safe to let my irish cover lapse at renewal time?

http://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/waiting-periods/new-customer-waiting-periods

On the information I've been given, all waiting periods will be brought to the level currently used for under 55s on April 30th.

daheff

The bit that I dont get is that we already pay taxes for the health service. Paying for Health insurance is crazy because of this (and yes i do have health insurance). We are paying twice for the same service...the second payment to just skip the queue (which is full of poor people).

This LCR is just a way to prop up the insurance companies because they've only realised that young (mainly healthy) people see that they dont really need health insurance so dont take it out. The recession has exacerbated this issue for them. Young people stopped taking insurance because they generally didnt require it, or because they've emigrated.

LCR loading is being used to frighten people into taking out insurance. "If you dont take it out now you'll pay more in the future". As the loading starts at an arbitrary (from what I can see) age of 34, I'd imagine that should somebody challenge it in court on the basis of age discrimination, that it would be beaten. But that would then just mean that Insurance cos would have to charge a higher rate for older people based on useage/or reject older applicants.

And to confuse matters more, successive governments have told us that they are trying to implement free healthcare for all...which would make health insurance worthless (imho).

Personally I would think everybody should pay a flat fee tax every year and that should pay for the health service. A lot of money that is paid to health insurance companies 'leaks' out of the health system in profits for insurance cos, admin salaries & other expenses. Surely its better to have people pay this money directly into the health system?