TUF 21: American Top Team vs Blackzilians

Paully D

With this kicking off in the very early hours of Thursday morning our time, I thought it might be a good idea to have a dedicated thread so we can discuss the series throughout.

As mentioned above, the premiere will be on Thursday at 3am GMT on Fox which will be a 2 hour special, and then will continue being broadcast at the same time for 11 weeks with 1 hour episodes.

Obviously the format is completely different this year with the American Top Team and Blackzilians gyms facing off, but the concept is the same. This year it's 8 welterweights from each gym, however there are a few differences from previous season which should add to the drama: fighters continue to train at their respective gyms but fights are never on neutral ground as the winning fighter earns home gym control for the next bout. In addition, each fighter will never know their opponent until the weigh-ins start and there's a total of $500,000 up for grabs for each gym to pocket throughout the season.

Some background on the rivalry from UFC.com below:

There’s no shortage of bad blood between these two camps. In 2001, the famed American Top Team gym was founded in Coconut Creek, Fla. by Dan Lambert. The gym has since been home to numerous champions and top contenders including current UFC welterweight champion Robbie Lawler, former title challengers Thiago Alves and Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva, former WEC® featherweight champ Mike Brown, Hector Lombard, Tyron Woodley and Dustin Poirier.

However, in 2011 several members defected to start their own camp, the Blackzilians.

Partnering with successful businessman Glenn Robinson, the fighters started their own training facility only 20 minutes away in Boca Raton, Fla., beginning one of the deepest rivalries in all of MMA. The Blackzilians camp is now home to former UFC light heavyweight champions Rashad Evans and Vitor Belfort, as well as top contenders Anthony Johnson, Eddie Alvarez, Michael Johnson and Matt Mitrione.

And the fighters who will be competing:

AMERICAN TOP TEAM
Marcelo Alfaya (16-7, 1NC) Porto Alegre, Brazil
Steve Carl (21-4), Belle Plain, Iowa
Nathan Coy (14-5), Vallejo, Calif.
Michael Graves (4-0), Toledo, Ohio
Hayder Hassan (6-1), Fort Lauderdale, Fla
Sabah Homasi (8-4), New Brunswick, N.J
Uros Jurisic (5-0), Ljubljana, Slovenia
Steve Montgomery (8-2), Florence, S.C.

BLACKZILIANS
Valdir Araujo (14-5), Gama, Federal District, Brazil
Carrington Banks (3-0), Peoria, Ill.
Luiz Buscape (16-5), Joao Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil
Jason Jackson (4-2), Kingston, Jamaica
Vicente Luque (7-4-1), Westwood, N.J.
Andrews Nakahara (4-2-2), Mogi das Cruzes, Sao Paulo, Brazil
Felipe Portela (8-2), Brasilia, Brazil
Kamarudeen Usman (5-1) Auchi, Nigeria

The finale is scheduled for July 12th (so the day after UFC 189) in Florida in what will add to an already insane week of UFC as Mir and Duffee face off on July 15th before we move across the pond to Glasgow on July 18th. Bring it on!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhCC2-Po9c

dulux99

I'm curious to see how it'll pan out if some fighters from the same camp inevitably end up fighting each other, in the semis or in the final

califano

I had no idea of that whole rivalry and what caused it. Have to say i like the sounds of this season. And im sure there will be plenty of Edmond Tarverdyan style gesticulating between camps hopefully.

Pudsy33

Will this be on fight pass? Or is there a delayed release?

MrStuffins

Surely Steve Carl has this wrapped up already? Looking forward to the season though. I know there've been a load of seasons and it's kind of stale, but the UFC keep trying to change it up it must be said. Nations, Team v Team, TUF Live, All female cast, etc.

I'd still love to see another Comeback series though!

Petermc83

its being shown on BT Sport on Thursday night. check the listings for specified times..

looking forward to the different dynamic of the show. It was badly needed after a few lacklustre series. I enjoyed the all female series for the straw-weight belt though.

Paully D

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Will this be on fight pass? Or is there a delayed release?

Petermc83 wrote: »

its being shown on BT Sport on Thursday night. check the listings for specified times..

Yep, 10pm Thursday night on BT Sport 1 for the 2 hour premiere:

http://www.tvguide.co.uk/detail/146639322/107383163/ufc-the-ultimate-fighter#.VTbT-iFViko

I presume they'll have it every Thursday thereafter?

Mellor

califano wrote: »

I had no idea of that whole rivalry and what caused it.

I think they are exaggerating it a lot. It was probably a sore point at the time, but ATT could hardly moan too much as they came about in the exact same manner, they spilt from Brazilian Top Team, who split from another team two years previous too.

xtal191

Paully D wrote: »

Yep, 10pm Thursday night on BT Sport 1 for the 2 hour premiere:

http://www.tvguide.co.uk/detail/146639322/107383163/ufc-the-ultimate-fighter#.VTbT-iFViko

I presume they'll have it every Thursday thereafter?

Its on BT Sport 2 at 3am tonight too

Dtp1979

Mellor wrote: »

I think they are exaggerating it a lot. It was probably a sore point at the time, but ATT could hardly moan too much as they came about in the exact same manner, they spilt from Brazilian Top Team, who split from another team two years previous too.

It's the biggest rivalry in mma history. Tune in Thursday nights to see all the action.
Wish I could do it in the Hollywood accent

TimRiggins

Anyone watching?

stiffler123

The points system seems really flawed. If a guy fights and wins once in the last 4 fights, he will have more points than a guy who has fought and won twice in the earlier rounds. That doesn't seem fair.

Foxtrol

stiffler123 wrote: »

The points system seems really flawed. If a guy fights and wins once in the last 4 fights, he will have more points than a guy who has fought and won twice in the earlier rounds. That doesn't seem fair.

It's all team based this year, not fighter specific.

dulux99

The "beef" between ATT and blackzillians seems a small bit forced in the first episode tbh

John_D80

dulux99 wrote: »

The "beef" between ATT and blackzillians seems a small bit forced in the first episode tbh

Yeah I'm watching it right now as well. The episode as a whole is very contrived so far and not very interesting.

I hope they're not all going to be an hour and a half long.

dulux99

John_D80 wrote: »

Yeah I'm watching it right now as well. The episode as a whole is very contrived so far and not very interesting.

I hope they're not all going to be an hour and a half long.

Honestly, if all of the episodes are going to revolve around these two bickering middle aged men who I've never heard of, I'll probably last about three episodes.

John_D80

dulux99 wrote: »

Honestly, if all of the episodes are going to revolve around these two bickering middle aged men who I've never heard of, I'll probably last about three episodes.

Can totally understand why they hate each other because neither one comes across as very likeable. If they we reasonably dynamic, interesting characters I could understand giving them so much of the screen time, but they're not.

Dana thought the fight was poor. I thought it was pretty decent in fairness.

califano

Not a great first episode, the production on these are contrived as dulux99 puts it. I think they should go down a whole new angle where they are following 3 fighters around and all the rest are peripheral. Sort of day in the life 'Hoop Dreams' style focusing on the trials and tribulations of just these 3 and of course all the fights regardless of whether they are in them or not.

MagicIRL

If this is going to boil down to the ATT fella' screaming "I have a blackbelt, you don't" then he needs a good fúcking slap.

The Blackzillans guy obviously knows how to coach, he's got a quality gym built from the ground up. It's very 'UFC meets Jersey Shore' so far.

I also thought the first fight was good? No idea what Dana was moaning about. It had stand-up, grappling, some slick submission attempts (that back take to rear naked transition was sweet!) and clinch work. Basically a MMA fight that touched every base.

Mike Tobacco

Dana was moaning because he wants brawls not fights. If you're not steaming forward at every possible moment you're not "showing that you want it".

Lenin Skynard

"You're the most unathletic guy in the room!" says the second most unathletic guy in the room.

Thought the show was crap. Overly complex format and a load of fighters who are there just because they're at the right gym at the right time.

stiffler123

Foxtrol wrote: »

It's all team based this year, not fighter specific.

So the 500K prize is going to the winning gym?

dulux99

Mike Tobacco wrote: »

Dana was moaning because he wants brawls not fights. If you're not steaming forward at every possible moment you're not "showing that you want it".

He can be a right clown some times. These two fighters could potentially be fighting two or three more times over the next 6 weeks or so, why would you go out and have a rock em sock em robots fight.

Dtp1979

stiffler123 wrote: »

So the 500K prize is going to the winning gym?

Uh. That's like when I was younger and you'd see some kid in a quiz on telly. The big prize they'd win would be a brand new computer. WOW....... For your school.... Meh

Mellor

MagicIRL wrote: »

The Blackzillans guy obviously knows how to coach, he's got a quality gym built from the ground up.

"from the ground up"...see thats the part ATT are mad about.

MagicIRL

Mellor wrote: »

"from the ground up"...see thats the part ATT are mad about.

Haha, you know what I mean!

He started the team himself. I'm not here for American Florida-state MMA gym politics, I just want to watch people fight!

Stillhouette

I watched the second episode today and they seem to be making this more about the coaches hating each other than the fighters. I'd like to see more of the training. It is all making for dull television.

That_Guy

I like the format but the rivalry is way too forced and cringey.

"You're the most un-athletic guy in the room"

I was nearly expecting a play ground comeback such as, "yeah well you're old"

"At least I've got hair you smelly man"

etc etc

The production is a bit strange. I only know about fighters and their style more than what they're like as a person outside of the gym.

I'll stick with it for a while anyway.

Sugarlumps

Corny show.

smilerf

Jesus yer man Dan is a right prick altogether. He has made me root for Blackzillians

Paully D

Dan Lambert really is a first class wanker. Hopefully the Blackzilians keep on winning.

MrStuffins

This is pretty sh*t so far to be honest

Stillhouette

My only surprise is that we haven't heard Dana tell us it is the best season yet.

TimRiggins

Stillhouette wrote: »

My only surprise is that we haven't heard Dana tell us it is the best season yet.

I'm suprised that he hasn't really mentioned that the two gym owners don't get on.

califano

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is pretty sh*t so far to be honest

This. So much so that in the 2nd episode i just fast forward to the fight. A plan i intend to keep up until the finale.

kearneybobs

It's beginning to head that way for me too.

Stillhouette

I am done with this rubbish. It is a weekly show with nitpicking children. I'll be back for the finale.

Mellor

I'm in fastforward mode now. Fights only

MagicIRL

That mounted guillotine looked tight! One thing I've noticed is, in my opinion, how poor the advice coming from the ATT corner is during the rounds. Screaming "Get up!" to your fighter is **** all use- they know they have to get up. Surely some constructive advice on how to get up would be more beneficial, no?

Paully D

Enjoyed the latest episode. Seeing Lambert's face as ATT went 3-0 down made it :pac:

You can see how the narrative is shaping up though. In the "next time on The Ultimate Fighter" at the end of the show they said an emergency might throw ATT's comeback off the rails (paraphrasing, but it was something similar). I'm sure it will end up bringing them closer together blah blah blah and they'll start pulling it back.

smilerf

They should rename ATT douche training cos it seems you have to be a bit of a prick to join that gym

mailburner

MagicIRL wrote: »

. Screaming "Get up!" to your fighter is **** all use- they know they have to get up.?

I always think of rampage on tuf when I hear that as that's all he said also iirc
He even made shamrocks coaching look good if that was possible
don't often get those kind of rivalries anymore which I miss

mc gregor mendes in a year or two maybe would be interesting

Naos

Had that 2 rounds to 1 for the loser, anyone else?

Paully D

Naos wrote: »

Had that 2 rounds to 1 for the loser, anyone else?

I thought the decision was correct, but admittedly if it had gone the other way I wouldn't have been all that surprised.

I think the takedown and connecting a lot with the jab in the final round is what swung it in Banks' favour.

Mellor

Anyone else noting that the logos blurred out on clothing?
I get the whole reebok sponsorship means they can't show other brands, but it was an ATT gym logo that I noticed blurred out.

kearneybobs

Mellor wrote: »

Anyone else noting that the logos blurred out on clothing?
I get the whole reebok sponsorship means they can't show other brands, but it was an ATT gym logo that I noticed blurred out.

ATT is probably considered a brand so either they aren't allowed show it under advertising rules or they've chosen not to show it since they're not being paid for the privilege...I would imagine.

Mellor

kearneybobs wrote: »

ATT is probably considered a brand so either they aren't allowed show it under advertising rules or they've chosen not to show it since they're not being paid for the privilege...I would imagine.

It's not really a brand selling to the public, but that might make sense if it was a different gym/brand, maybe.
But the series name has even has "ATT" in it, the voice over mentions ATT, the intro credits have it, and its filmed at ATT, etc etc. In fact, when the logo was blurred out on his shirt, he was sitting in front of a big ATT logo on the wall which wasn't blurred.

Just found it very strange. especially when the you cant actually read the tshirt logo at that scale and blurring it makes if no harder to recognaise.

kearneybobs

Mellor wrote: »

In fact, when the logo was blurred out on his shirt, he was sitting in front of a big ATT logo on the wall which wasn't blurred.

Well that, I cannot even try to explain.

Paully D

You know there's going to be a quick KO when they drag the shite out showing the days leading up to the fight. I thought they were going to give us every day of the week in 15 minute intervals at one stage!

MagicIRL

That Haydar lad has some power but looked awfully wild. A solid technical striker would tear up apart. Also, someone needs to have a word with him about looking in to the camera and not keeping his held titled up. He'll end up stuck that way! :P

clever user name

Another meh fight to be honest, I don't bother with the rest of the episode at this stage. Too much dancing around each other in a lot of these fights. The fighters are going in with a do not lose attitude, rather than pushing for the win.

Jackson looks OK, solid take-down defense and good jab. Needs to mix it up a bit more though. Only his 7th fight and he's young, be interesting to see his progression.

Agree with MagicIRL, Hayder seems to be one of those fighters who relies a lot on their power, he was throwing bombs from the off. Would like to see how he fairs against a more well rounded opponent.

Oh and Dan Lambert is rather unlikable fellow, I'm rooting for the blackzillians solely because of him.