Free GP care for Under 6s?

nice_guy80

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?
so many people can well afford GP visits for their sick child

There should be a minimum charge for all GPs visits imho (up to a limit per month) as some people will always abuse a free system.

Its crazy that €70 million is being spent on this when there are so many really sick children in the health system who urgently require better care, special surgery and better facilities

Nodin

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?
so many people can well afford GP visits for their sick child

There should be a minimum charge for all GPs visits imho (up to a limit per month) as some people will always abuse a free system.

Its crazy that €70 million is being spent on this when there are so many really sick children in the health system who urgently require better care, special surgery and better facilities

It's been in the works for some time, however I've never understood the logic behind rolling out this universal measure when cutting back means tested cards, services etc.

BoJack Horseman

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?

It was a pre-election promise before GE 2011 & part of the programme for government.

Its just taken 2 years of negotiation to get a framework in place.

ThisRegard

I don't think you'll get too many under 6's abusing the system in fairness. It's adults abusing the medical card system, and the medical card system itself that's the real problem.

I'd much prefer to see under 6's getting this than adults getting medical cards willly nilly.

Nodin

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't think you'll get too many under 6's abusing the system in fairness. It's adults abusing the medical card system, and the medical card system itself that's the real problem.

I'd much prefer to see under 6's getting this than adults getting medical cards willly nilly.

Medical cards are not issued on a universal basis.

heldel00

My sis was with the doc two weeks ago. €70 for consultation!
Was back today for a repeat prescription and the nurse had to pop in to get him to sign scrip and ask two questions my sister had wondered about. When she went to pay, the receptionist asked for 40euro, sis questioned this as being very expensive for prescription and was told the extra 20 was for the consultation that the nurse had had with the doc on her behalf.
I kid you not. This is the sort of $hite that needs to be sorted. Not the fairly healthy under6 population

Fr Tod Umptious

heldel00 wrote: »

My sis was with the doc two weeks ago. €70 for consultation!
Was back today for a repeat prescription and the nurse had to pop in to get him to sign scrip and ask two questions my sister had wondered about. When she went to pay, the receptionist asked for 40euro, sis questioned this as being very expensive for prescription and was told the extra 20 was for the consultation that the nurse had had with the doc on her behalf.
I kid you not. This is the sort of $hite that needs to be sorted. Not the fairly healthy under6 population

You'd be surprised how often you bring an child to the doc before the age of six.

hfallada

40% of the population already has free GP care, while the other 60% pay a ridiculous amount for it. There needs to be a minimum GP charge,even €5 to stop people going to the GP because it costs me nothing. Most countries have minimum payment to stop people over using the system. Ask any GP and they will tell you have people coming in weekly with issues, that are nothing serious and a pharmacist could help them. But the patients attitude is that it doesnt cost me anything. The same with Co-Payments on prescriptions. People think twice about getting a prescription filled when they actually have to pay something towards it.

The fact is until we are all paying a proper compulsory health insurance like Germany. We arent going to have a totally free health system, as we cant afford it. In Germany you pay about 7,5% of your wages on health insurance with no allowances eg like low wage people dont pay USC here. There is still Co-Payments to stop over using the system and you only get generic medication for free.

You cant expect a world class health system and pay nothing in return. We either stick with our health system as it is or we all agree we need higher taxes, as our existing taxes wont cover a Germany style health system here.

allthedoyles

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

Manach

Stunt. Election gambit paid for by other peoples' money which will be skimmed off by entrenched rent-seekers and act as a push factor for even more taxes. Win:win for FG.

jank

Free GP care sounds great and all but it can be riddled with problems. For example, try getting a GP appointment on the same day over on the NHS. Sometimes you have to wait more than two weeks. I notice that the other day the Tories are promising OAP's same day appointments on the NHS so its clearly an issue.

In Australia this has been hot topic of debate lately as the government have been trying to pass legislation that would introduction a small co-payment for GP visits which are currently free under Medicare. Free GP sounds lovely, sure its great to not have to pay to visit some GP's but problems arise. Firstly many of the bulk bill GP's or clinics are below standard. They operate on the maximum of patient turnover, the more patient they see, the more money the make from the state. I have heard some horror stories to this affect.
If I wanted a good check-up that may take a half an hour or more, I would visit a private GP whom I would pay to spend time examining me, not some dude who wants me out the door in two minutes. People generally have 'two GP's. The one they get their prescriptions off, get checked for a flu and so forth and their private GP where they go for better and more professional examinations.

Then of course is the cost to the tax-payer which will grow and grow and anything free will be absued. A common stat the government has aired is that Australians now see the doctor more than twice as often as they did 10 years ago, no doubt because it is free. Its costing the Australian tax payer a fortune and once something free is given out, its very very hard to take it back even though it may make perfect logical sense to introduce a small $5 payment to stop people seeing the GP every 3rd day. People with chronic illness fall under a different scheme and everything get is pretty much free.

In Ireland we love making everyone fit into square peg one size fits all, with the medical card whereby 43% of the population have one and the other 57% of the population have to fork out 60-70euro a pop for a GP visit.

In summary this is a bad idea without any checks and balances to prevent abuse.

Arbiter of Good Taste

allthedoyles wrote: »

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

€50,000! I know people (people, not just one person) on 5 times that, with employer sponsored gold plated health insurance who will qualify. That's just wrong.

micosoft

The truth of the matter is that free healthcare at point of delivery moves delivery of treatment from sick people to healthy people. Minimum charge for everything. I'd love to see an analysis of what has happened with the minimum pharmacy charge for example... that 50c dissuaded a lot of people from stocking up on drugs they didn't need.

El Horseboxo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You'd be surprised how often you bring an child to the doc before the age of six.

How many times unnecessarily? Under this program it will be worse.

Fr Tod Umptious

El Horseboxo wrote: »

How many times unnecessarily? Under this program it will be worse.

Well the problem is that it's very hard to define necessity with a child.

As they get older its easier because they can tell you to some level how they feel, where it hurts etc, and obviously adults can make the decision whether to go or not.

But when you have a child that will not sleep, is crying, is not eating, has a temp etc the best thing to do is get them checked out by a GP.

The number of visits goes down as the child gets older.

hfallada

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

€50,000! I know people (people, not just one person) on 5 times that, with employer sponsored gold plated health insurance who will qualify. That's just wrong.

If you earn €250k this year. You have a mere €131k after tax. Im not saying €131k is a hard amount to live on. But you are after paying €120k in income taxes to Government and you wont get much in return for it. I dont think having free healthcare for your child is asking too much, considering your pension will be the same as someone who earns €17k a year, you still get the same €200 a week if you lose your job, as everyone else

The whole welfare system in this country is geared towards low income people. The high income earners pay for it all and get barely anything in return. At what stage does taxes to reduce inequality but inequity?

Health insurance in this country is a joke. In Germany and the US, your health insurance pays for all your health needs eg Doctor visits, medicines. Here it basically pays for anything in a hospital. So having health insurance doesnt mean you get everything for free, like most people on the medical card.

Timberrrrrrrr

allthedoyles wrote: »

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

Because they pay a **** load of taxes via PAYE/PRSI/USC

Why should some junkie scrote who has never contributed to society get free medical care?

allthedoyles

I have seen people on the borderline of earnings amount been refused not just a medical card , but a GP card , and in my opinion , this decision to provide all under 6's with card , will penalise genuine people looking for a medical card / GP card .

Willfarman

Those of us that have no medical card only visit the gp when we are in serious bother. 60 euro and a long wait for a five minute consultation.
And then we are faced with the packed waiting room of medical card holders who have nothing to lose, they have all the time in the world, there should be a nominal charge of 20 euro no matter who you are.

For Reals

Across the board I'm against. I don't get how they can cut services and increase charges, but drag these vote grabbers out of the war chest with a straight face and talk about fiscal responsibility.
oh wait, I forgot, they're ****heads.

Timberrrrrrrr

For Reals wrote: »

Across the board I'm against. I don't get how they can cut services and increase charges, but drag these vote grabbers out of the war chest with a straight face and talk about fiscal responsibility.
oh wait, I forgot, they're ****heads.

So you don't think people who work hard and pay taxes should get free GP care for their young children? I would rather see people who pay taxes get free medical care for their children over junkies getting free everything and never contributing a single thing to society.

For Reals

Willfarman wrote: »

Those of us that have no medical card only visit the gp when we are in serious bother. 60 euro and a long wait for a five minute consultation.
And then we are faced with the packed waiting room of medical card holders who have nothing to lose, they have all the time in the world, there should be a nominal charge of 20 euro no matter who you are.

The poor, am I right? Should be herded up :rolleyes:

exgp

Our GP service is efficient but as pointed out above, expensive if you don't have a medical card. When Tony Blair was fighting his first election one of his promises w as a GP appointment within 48 hours. Today Cameron is promising a same day appointment to over 75s. In general you will see a GP , in this country, on the same day you want to if it is anyway urgent. It has been the policy of The Irish College of GPs for 25 years to have free GP care for all and the IMO and the NAGP agree with this. However the government plan for paying for this has been to go the route of universal health insurance. (UHI). There are three problems with this.
Firstly, the estimated cost has been given as €1650 for every man woman and child.
Secondly, insurance companies exist to make profits for their shareholders
Thirdly, we could end up with the insurance companies morphing into Health Management Organisations (HMOs) as they have in the States; HMOs dictate which treatments and drugs can or cannot be used.
If we are to get a free health service, as I hope we do, then insurance companies should not be allowed anywhere near it.

jayo26

As a dad who has a child with down syndrome I have seen the good and bad of our health service in Ireland we are lucky to have such and excelent facility like Crumlin hospital but yet I had to fight for a year to get a medical card for my child while we were paying over 700 euro a month for her medication when she was born until she got the drug payment scheme and gp visits twice a week thankfully now all is ok and we aren't dependent on anything but I believe that it should be a right of every child born to the state that they have free health care and adults should be screened more for it and regulated, it is a burden enough to have a sick child without having to worry how your going to afford health care.

RainyDay

jayo26 wrote: »

As a dad who has a child with down syndrome I have seen the good and bad of our health service in Ireland we are lucky to have such and excelent facility like Crumlin hospital but yet I had to fight for a year to get a medical card for my child while we were paying over 700 euro a month for her medication when she was born until she got the drug payment scheme and gp visits twice a week thankfully now all is ok and we aren't dependent on anything but I believe that it should be a right of every child born to the state that they have free health care and adults should be screened more for it and regulated, it is a burden enough to have a sick child without having to worry how your going to afford health care.

Doesn't the max spend on medication per month (about €130 I think) apply to everyone? It's not something that you have to qualify for. How did you end up paying €700 per month?

I don't get the arguments about 'loads of older sick kids'. You have to start somewhere. There are loads of older sick kids with wealthy parents too. Why should they get a free service if younger kids don't?

Preventative care will be cheaper in the long run than waiting for kids to get really sick.

Uncle Ben

Not only a problem with the under 6s but this package also includes the over 70s. Listened to Alan Dukes yesterday and he wouldn't exactly be my political poster boy however as he also said it won't be long before he's entitled to a gp card also.

Election promises, can't complain however as expected payback to the PS also on the cards. Cest la vie.

heldel00

For Reals wrote: »

The poor, am I right? Should be herded up :rolleyes:

Yeah a lot of medical card holders are not so poor!

Uncle Ben

heldel00 wrote: »

Yeah a lot of medical card holders are not so poor!

The qualification criteria is a pretty conservative figure.

jayo26

RainyDay wrote: »

Doesn't the max spend on medication per month (about €130 I think) apply to everyone? It's not something that you have to qualify for. How did you end up paying €700 per month?

I don't get the arguments about 'loads of older sick kids'. You have to start somewhere. There are loads of older sick kids with wealthy parents too. Why should they get a free service if younger kids don't?

Preventative care will be cheaper in the long run than waiting for kids to get really sick.

Its about 128 euro a month on drug payments scheme but not everyone qualifies for that right away,
She was on one monthly injection as a vaccine against lung conditions I cant remember exact name of it but that alone cost 550 euro then a number of medications brought the total up to about 750 as I said all is ok now but it is a hard thing to deal with at the time,

jayo26

Also the drug payment scheme only covers certain medications that have been approved before hand and trust me there is alot of medications that haven't been approved for it.

heldel00

Uncle Ben wrote: »

The qualification criteria is a pretty conservative figure.

I know some people with medical cards and it just makes no sense but hopefully those days are gone. As people have said already they have become a lot stricter.