Free GP care for Under 6s?

nice_guy80

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?
so many people can well afford GP visits for their sick child

There should be a minimum charge for all GPs visits imho (up to a limit per month) as some people will always abuse a free system.

Its crazy that €70 million is being spent on this when there are so many really sick children in the health system who urgently require better care, special surgery and better facilities

Nodin

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?
so many people can well afford GP visits for their sick child

There should be a minimum charge for all GPs visits imho (up to a limit per month) as some people will always abuse a free system.

Its crazy that €70 million is being spent on this when there are so many really sick children in the health system who urgently require better care, special surgery and better facilities

It's been in the works for some time, however I've never understood the logic behind rolling out this universal measure when cutting back means tested cards, services etc.

BoJack Horseman

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it me or this a huge pre-election stunt?

It was a pre-election promise before GE 2011 & part of the programme for government.

Its just taken 2 years of negotiation to get a framework in place.

ThisRegard

I don't think you'll get too many under 6's abusing the system in fairness. It's adults abusing the medical card system, and the medical card system itself that's the real problem.

I'd much prefer to see under 6's getting this than adults getting medical cards willly nilly.

Nodin

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't think you'll get too many under 6's abusing the system in fairness. It's adults abusing the medical card system, and the medical card system itself that's the real problem.

I'd much prefer to see under 6's getting this than adults getting medical cards willly nilly.

Medical cards are not issued on a universal basis.

heldel00

My sis was with the doc two weeks ago. €70 for consultation!
Was back today for a repeat prescription and the nurse had to pop in to get him to sign scrip and ask two questions my sister had wondered about. When she went to pay, the receptionist asked for 40euro, sis questioned this as being very expensive for prescription and was told the extra 20 was for the consultation that the nurse had had with the doc on her behalf.
I kid you not. This is the sort of $hite that needs to be sorted. Not the fairly healthy under6 population

Fr Tod Umptious

heldel00 wrote: »

My sis was with the doc two weeks ago. €70 for consultation!
Was back today for a repeat prescription and the nurse had to pop in to get him to sign scrip and ask two questions my sister had wondered about. When she went to pay, the receptionist asked for 40euro, sis questioned this as being very expensive for prescription and was told the extra 20 was for the consultation that the nurse had had with the doc on her behalf.
I kid you not. This is the sort of $hite that needs to be sorted. Not the fairly healthy under6 population

You'd be surprised how often you bring an child to the doc before the age of six.

hfallada

40% of the population already has free GP care, while the other 60% pay a ridiculous amount for it. There needs to be a minimum GP charge,even €5 to stop people going to the GP because it costs me nothing. Most countries have minimum payment to stop people over using the system. Ask any GP and they will tell you have people coming in weekly with issues, that are nothing serious and a pharmacist could help them. But the patients attitude is that it doesnt cost me anything. The same with Co-Payments on prescriptions. People think twice about getting a prescription filled when they actually have to pay something towards it.

The fact is until we are all paying a proper compulsory health insurance like Germany. We arent going to have a totally free health system, as we cant afford it. In Germany you pay about 7,5% of your wages on health insurance with no allowances eg like low wage people dont pay USC here. There is still Co-Payments to stop over using the system and you only get generic medication for free.

You cant expect a world class health system and pay nothing in return. We either stick with our health system as it is or we all agree we need higher taxes, as our existing taxes wont cover a Germany style health system here.

allthedoyles

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

Manach

Stunt. Election gambit paid for by other peoples' money which will be skimmed off by entrenched rent-seekers and act as a push factor for even more taxes. Win:win for FG.

jank

Free GP care sounds great and all but it can be riddled with problems. For example, try getting a GP appointment on the same day over on the NHS. Sometimes you have to wait more than two weeks. I notice that the other day the Tories are promising OAP's same day appointments on the NHS so its clearly an issue.

In Australia this has been hot topic of debate lately as the government have been trying to pass legislation that would introduction a small co-payment for GP visits which are currently free under Medicare. Free GP sounds lovely, sure its great to not have to pay to visit some GP's but problems arise. Firstly many of the bulk bill GP's or clinics are below standard. They operate on the maximum of patient turnover, the more patient they see, the more money the make from the state. I have heard some horror stories to this affect.
If I wanted a good check-up that may take a half an hour or more, I would visit a private GP whom I would pay to spend time examining me, not some dude who wants me out the door in two minutes. People generally have 'two GP's. The one they get their prescriptions off, get checked for a flu and so forth and their private GP where they go for better and more professional examinations.

Then of course is the cost to the tax-payer which will grow and grow and anything free will be absued. A common stat the government has aired is that Australians now see the doctor more than twice as often as they did 10 years ago, no doubt because it is free. Its costing the Australian tax payer a fortune and once something free is given out, its very very hard to take it back even though it may make perfect logical sense to introduce a small $5 payment to stop people seeing the GP every 3rd day. People with chronic illness fall under a different scheme and everything get is pretty much free.

In Ireland we love making everyone fit into square peg one size fits all, with the medical card whereby 43% of the population have one and the other 57% of the population have to fork out 60-70euro a pop for a GP visit.

In summary this is a bad idea without any checks and balances to prevent abuse.

Arbiter of Good Taste

allthedoyles wrote: »

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

€50,000! I know people (people, not just one person) on 5 times that, with employer sponsored gold plated health insurance who will qualify. That's just wrong.

micosoft

The truth of the matter is that free healthcare at point of delivery moves delivery of treatment from sick people to healthy people. Minimum charge for everything. I'd love to see an analysis of what has happened with the minimum pharmacy charge for example... that 50c dissuaded a lot of people from stocking up on drugs they didn't need.

El Horseboxo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You'd be surprised how often you bring an child to the doc before the age of six.

How many times unnecessarily? Under this program it will be worse.

Fr Tod Umptious

El Horseboxo wrote: »

How many times unnecessarily? Under this program it will be worse.

Well the problem is that it's very hard to define necessity with a child.

As they get older its easier because they can tell you to some level how they feel, where it hurts etc, and obviously adults can make the decision whether to go or not.

But when you have a child that will not sleep, is crying, is not eating, has a temp etc the best thing to do is get them checked out by a GP.

The number of visits goes down as the child gets older.

hfallada

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

€50,000! I know people (people, not just one person) on 5 times that, with employer sponsored gold plated health insurance who will qualify. That's just wrong.

If you earn €250k this year. You have a mere €131k after tax. Im not saying €131k is a hard amount to live on. But you are after paying €120k in income taxes to Government and you wont get much in return for it. I dont think having free healthcare for your child is asking too much, considering your pension will be the same as someone who earns €17k a year, you still get the same €200 a week if you lose your job, as everyone else

The whole welfare system in this country is geared towards low income people. The high income earners pay for it all and get barely anything in return. At what stage does taxes to reduce inequality but inequity?

Health insurance in this country is a joke. In Germany and the US, your health insurance pays for all your health needs eg Doctor visits, medicines. Here it basically pays for anything in a hospital. So having health insurance doesnt mean you get everything for free, like most people on the medical card.

Timberrrrrrrr

allthedoyles wrote: »

Medical card renewals are been refused like never before ,so it looks to me like Government policy is to get tough with recent applications especially the discretion part.

So free for all under 6's , there will be many losers .

Why should any couple with income of say €50,000 each with health insurance paid for by their employers , be entitled to bring their under 6 to GP for free.

Because they pay a **** load of taxes via PAYE/PRSI/USC

Why should some junkie scrote who has never contributed to society get free medical care?

allthedoyles

I have seen people on the borderline of earnings amount been refused not just a medical card , but a GP card , and in my opinion , this decision to provide all under 6's with card , will penalise genuine people looking for a medical card / GP card .

Willfarman

Those of us that have no medical card only visit the gp when we are in serious bother. 60 euro and a long wait for a five minute consultation.
And then we are faced with the packed waiting room of medical card holders who have nothing to lose, they have all the time in the world, there should be a nominal charge of 20 euro no matter who you are.

For Reals

Across the board I'm against. I don't get how they can cut services and increase charges, but drag these vote grabbers out of the war chest with a straight face and talk about fiscal responsibility.
oh wait, I forgot, they're ****heads.

Timberrrrrrrr

For Reals wrote: »

Across the board I'm against. I don't get how they can cut services and increase charges, but drag these vote grabbers out of the war chest with a straight face and talk about fiscal responsibility.
oh wait, I forgot, they're ****heads.

So you don't think people who work hard and pay taxes should get free GP care for their young children? I would rather see people who pay taxes get free medical care for their children over junkies getting free everything and never contributing a single thing to society.

For Reals

Willfarman wrote: »

Those of us that have no medical card only visit the gp when we are in serious bother. 60 euro and a long wait for a five minute consultation.
And then we are faced with the packed waiting room of medical card holders who have nothing to lose, they have all the time in the world, there should be a nominal charge of 20 euro no matter who you are.

The poor, am I right? Should be herded up :rolleyes:

exgp

Our GP service is efficient but as pointed out above, expensive if you don't have a medical card. When Tony Blair was fighting his first election one of his promises w as a GP appointment within 48 hours. Today Cameron is promising a same day appointment to over 75s. In general you will see a GP , in this country, on the same day you want to if it is anyway urgent. It has been the policy of The Irish College of GPs for 25 years to have free GP care for all and the IMO and the NAGP agree with this. However the government plan for paying for this has been to go the route of universal health insurance. (UHI). There are three problems with this.
Firstly, the estimated cost has been given as €1650 for every man woman and child.
Secondly, insurance companies exist to make profits for their shareholders
Thirdly, we could end up with the insurance companies morphing into Health Management Organisations (HMOs) as they have in the States; HMOs dictate which treatments and drugs can or cannot be used.
If we are to get a free health service, as I hope we do, then insurance companies should not be allowed anywhere near it.

jayo26

As a dad who has a child with down syndrome I have seen the good and bad of our health service in Ireland we are lucky to have such and excelent facility like Crumlin hospital but yet I had to fight for a year to get a medical card for my child while we were paying over 700 euro a month for her medication when she was born until she got the drug payment scheme and gp visits twice a week thankfully now all is ok and we aren't dependent on anything but I believe that it should be a right of every child born to the state that they have free health care and adults should be screened more for it and regulated, it is a burden enough to have a sick child without having to worry how your going to afford health care.

RainyDay

jayo26 wrote: »

As a dad who has a child with down syndrome I have seen the good and bad of our health service in Ireland we are lucky to have such and excelent facility like Crumlin hospital but yet I had to fight for a year to get a medical card for my child while we were paying over 700 euro a month for her medication when she was born until she got the drug payment scheme and gp visits twice a week thankfully now all is ok and we aren't dependent on anything but I believe that it should be a right of every child born to the state that they have free health care and adults should be screened more for it and regulated, it is a burden enough to have a sick child without having to worry how your going to afford health care.

Doesn't the max spend on medication per month (about €130 I think) apply to everyone? It's not something that you have to qualify for. How did you end up paying €700 per month?

I don't get the arguments about 'loads of older sick kids'. You have to start somewhere. There are loads of older sick kids with wealthy parents too. Why should they get a free service if younger kids don't?

Preventative care will be cheaper in the long run than waiting for kids to get really sick.

Uncle Ben

Not only a problem with the under 6s but this package also includes the over 70s. Listened to Alan Dukes yesterday and he wouldn't exactly be my political poster boy however as he also said it won't be long before he's entitled to a gp card also.

Election promises, can't complain however as expected payback to the PS also on the cards. Cest la vie.

heldel00

For Reals wrote: »

The poor, am I right? Should be herded up :rolleyes:

Yeah a lot of medical card holders are not so poor!

Uncle Ben

heldel00 wrote: »

Yeah a lot of medical card holders are not so poor!

The qualification criteria is a pretty conservative figure.

jayo26

RainyDay wrote: »

Doesn't the max spend on medication per month (about €130 I think) apply to everyone? It's not something that you have to qualify for. How did you end up paying €700 per month?

I don't get the arguments about 'loads of older sick kids'. You have to start somewhere. There are loads of older sick kids with wealthy parents too. Why should they get a free service if younger kids don't?

Preventative care will be cheaper in the long run than waiting for kids to get really sick.

Its about 128 euro a month on drug payments scheme but not everyone qualifies for that right away,
She was on one monthly injection as a vaccine against lung conditions I cant remember exact name of it but that alone cost 550 euro then a number of medications brought the total up to about 750 as I said all is ok now but it is a hard thing to deal with at the time,

jayo26

Also the drug payment scheme only covers certain medications that have been approved before hand and trust me there is alot of medications that haven't been approved for it.

heldel00

Uncle Ben wrote: »

The qualification criteria is a pretty conservative figure.

I know some people with medical cards and it just makes no sense but hopefully those days are gone. As people have said already they have become a lot stricter.

Uncle Ben

heldel00 wrote: »

I know some people with medical cards and it just makes no sense but hopefully those days are gone. As people have said already they have become a lot stricter.

The qualification criteria for people here in Ireland is quite low. However there is a provision of medical cards for people who live here BUT they work and pay taxes etc in another EU country.
When I worked on a British ship many years ago I got paid well in stg and paid all my taxes and NI to the UK. My family including myself all qualified for medical cards under the Frontier Workers Scheme. We also qualified for all the additional benefits such as not having to pay the entrance fees for when the kids were doing their inter certs etc.

I'm pretty sure there are very many people whose spouses are working in the EU and whose families are still living here. All of them would qualify for medical cards. And as stated above there is no monetary limits under this scheme. When I had my medical card a chief engineer from Cork also had one and he was earning almost £60k stg.

exgp

It is true that if you have a UK income from the UK, wether as an employee or a social welfare recipient, then your entitled to an Irish medical card, though not with the benefits that come with it such as free ESB allowance &etc. However if you have any additional income from this country, no matter how minimal, then you loose that entitlement.

RainyDay

jayo26 wrote: »

Its about 128 euro a month on drug payments scheme but not everyone qualifies for that right away,
She was on one monthly injection as a vaccine against lung conditions I cant remember exact name of it but that alone cost 550 euro then a number of medications brought the total up to about 750 as I said all is ok now but it is a hard thing to deal with at the time,

jayo26 wrote: »

Also the drug payment scheme only covers certain medications that have been approved before hand and trust me there is alot of medications that haven't been approved for it.

Looks like it is €144 per month per family now. But there is no qualification, other than being resident in Ireland and having a PPS number, so I can't see why there would be any delay. There is also a refund facility of you spend more than the monthly limit at any stage.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/drugs_payment_scheme.html

I hadn't come across the bit about unapproved medicines. Do you know if this means they are unapproved for the refund scheme, or unapproved for sale/use here in Ireland?

nice_guy80

So what would be a decent minimum payment for GP visit for Under 6s?

€10?
Better than paying €40 or €50.

If you charged that, you could probably extend the scheme to all under 10s.

I've a huge issue with people who can well afford GP visits getting them for free. And then those who have all GP visits free abusing the system.
Same with free drugs scheme.

As a republic we need to come up with systems that benefit all aspects if society equally

jayo26

RainyDay wrote: »

Looks like it is €144 per month per family now. But there is no qualification, other than being resident in Ireland and having a PPS number, so I can't see why there would be any delay. There is also a refund facility of you spend more than the monthly limit at any stage.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/drugs_payment_scheme.html

I hadn't come across the bit about unapproved medicines. Do you know if this means they are unapproved for the refund scheme, or unapproved for sale/use here in Ireland?

I don't know the exact details of it now but my little one is 3 now so I'm going back a few years and we got nothing back.

I do know that the unapproved medicines part of it was for refund and not just medications that were not approved for sale in ireland. Off the top of my head I cant think of a proper example apart from a really simple example of if a doctor prescribed Calpol it isn't covered but paralink is covered or it could be the other way around.
I know this is only a few quid so I'm using it as an example but the problems we came up against were alot more expensive medications.

BaronVon

With the tax relief being cut on medical insurance in 2013, my family medical insurance went up €350 for the year. My medical cover pays back €35 per GP visit, so each GP visit costs me €15. So technically my "free GP" care for my 2 year old will kick in on his 24th visit per annum!

Hopefully we'll never need to attend that much, or anywhere close to it, but I think this GP care is far from free!

jayo26

nice_guy80 wrote: »

So what would be a decent minimum payment for GP visit for Under 6s?

€10?
Better than paying €40 or €50.

If you charged that, you could probably extend the scheme to all under 10s.

I've a huge issue with people who can well afford GP visits getting them for free. And then those who have all GP visits free abusing the system.
Same with free drugs scheme.

As a republic we need to come up with systems that benefit all aspects if society equally

I agree with you but I have an issue with a kid depending on an adult having money to pay for a gp visit or other medical expense not no matter how small it is, I would never put anything before my kid but there are parents out there that don't feel the same and it is not the childs fault who they have for parent so if a parent decides that maybe the child don't need to go to the doctor today so I can buy a pack of fags or whatever that is a danger.

nice_guy80

jayo26 wrote: »

I agree with you but I have an issue with a kid depending on an adult having money to pay for a gp visit or other medical expense not no matter how small it is, I would never put anything before my kid but there are parents out there that don't feel the same and it is not the childs fault who they have for parent so if a parent decides that maybe the child don't need to go to the doctor today so I can buy a pack of fags or whatever that is a danger.

Most of those people have a medical card though.
And yes, ignorance is a problem

hfallada

jayo26 wrote: »

Also the drug payment scheme only covers certain medications that have been approved before hand and trust me there is alot of medications that haven't been approved for it.

With good reason. There is a lot of people who believe they should be entitled to experimental drugs, where success is limited and long term benefits are unknown. Take this drug that costs €437k per patient per year. We can improve the live of one individual with that drug or we could hire probably 2/3 doctors and about 11/12 nurses. What will better for Irish society?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/leo-varadkar-criticises-us-drug-firm-s-aggressive-policy-1.2073204

jayo26

hfallada wrote: »

With good reason. There is a lot of people who believe they should be entitled to experimental drugs, where success is limited and long term benefits are unknown. Take this drug that costs €437k per patient per year. We can improve the live of one individual with that drug or we could hire probably 2/3 doctors and about 11/12 nurses. What will better for Irish society?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/leo-varadkar-criticises-us-drug-firm-s-aggressive-policy-1.2073204

There is extremes in everything I can understand why it wont just cover a medication like that but some of the medication we came across were very common, I'm talking from my personal experience and from what I have had to deal with.

Annabella1

This will be fine if brought in during the summer but come the winter there will be extensive waiting lists in gp surgeries.same day access to gp will go in this country especially in urban areas
Not such a vote grabber for the government

ThisRegard

Nodin wrote: »

Medical cards are not issued on a universal basis.

I never said they were.



I had forgotten about this thread over the weekend but many people have already made points I would have.

Many long term diseases and illnesses, such as asthma, allergies etc, and childhood specific diseases are obviously diagnosed at a young age. Due to their nature their diagnosis can involve visits on an almost weekly basis at times. The visits and the medicines all adds up.

So as Timberrrr succinctly put it, why should some junkie for example get free healthcare and a young child at the start of their life not ?

RainyDay

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I've a huge issue with people who can well afford GP visits getting them for free.

Do you have a huge issue with people who can well afford private schooling who send their kids to the local school for free? Or people who can well afford to pay the M50 toll who choose to drive on the free roads instead? Or people who can well afford to pay for a gym who choose to run in the park instead?

nice_guy80 wrote: »

And then those who have all GP visits free abusing the system.

Why do you assume that those who have free GP visits will abuse the system? It seems to work out pretty well in the UK.

jayo26 wrote: »

I don't know the exact details of it now but my little one is 3 now so I'm going back a few years and we got nothing back.

I do know that the unapproved medicines part of it was for refund and not just medications that were not approved for sale in ireland. Off the top of my head I cant think of a proper example apart from a really simple example of if a doctor prescribed Calpol it isn't covered but paralink is covered or it could be the other way around.
I know this is only a few quid so I'm using it as an example but the problems we came up against were alot more expensive medications.

jayo26 wrote: »

There is extremes in everything I can understand why it wont just cover a medication like that but some of the medication we came across were very common, I'm talking from my personal experience and from what I have had to deal with.

If it is a question of generics (Paralink) vs branded drugs (Calpol), then the scheme is perfectly right to pay for the generic only. I'd have hoped that the doctor writing the script and the pharmacist dispensing would have steered you to the generic drugs anyway. I think there is recent legislation that requires the pharmacist to give generics now as the first option.

Are there other kinds of mainstream (non-experimental) drugs that are not covered under the scheme?

NIMAN

As someone who pays between €40/€50 every time I have to take one of my 3 kids to the GP, I would of course love to get it for nothing.

But I don't think that free for everyone is a good idea. I can afford to pay should I need to go, but if it means that money is taken away from needier people with long term, genuine ailments then I would prefer it was subsidised rather than free. Perhaps pay half my fee, not all of it?

nice_guy80

RainyDay wrote: »

Do you have a huge issue with people who can well afford private schooling who send their kids to the local school for free? Or people who can well afford to pay the M50 toll who choose to drive on the free roads instead? Or people who can well afford to pay for a gym who choose to run in the park instead?


Why do you assume that those who have free GP visits will abuse the system? It seems to work out pretty well in the UK.

are you equating going to the doctor with private education?
or with going for a run?

people with medical cards abuse the system.
I know a few GPs.
I also know the children who are constantly brought to the GP and the merest hint of a sniffle

RainyDay

nice_guy80 wrote: »

are you equating going to the doctor with private education?
or with going for a run?

I'm pointing out that many, many public services are free at the point of service. What's so special about GP service that requires a payment? People pay through taxation for all kinds of services. GP service is an essential service. It saves lives. It saves money by dealing with minor issues quickly, and avoiding more serious medical costs down the line.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

people with medical cards abuse the system.
I know a few GPs.
I also know the children who are constantly brought to the GP and the merest hint of a sniffle

The data I saw comparing Northern Ireland GP service (free under NHS) with ROI GP service showed similar visit rates for both. Could we based policy on sound research, and not what folks are hearing in the pub?

BoJack Horseman

RainyDay wrote: »

The data I saw comparing Northern Ireland GP service (free under NHS) with ROI GP service showed similar visit rates for both. Could we based policy on sound research, and not what folks are hearing in the pub?

Was it visit rate for NHS vs Medical Cards?

I remember the CSO advising that the GP visit rate for med card holders was 5 per annum.... For those who pay, its 2 visits per annum.

RainyDay

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Was it visit rate for NHS vs Medical Cards?

I remember the CSO advising that the GP visit rate for med card holders was 5 per annum.... For those who pay, its 2 visits per annum.

It was NHS vs ROI, both medical cards and private - both averaged 3.something per annum.

NIMAN

As someone who came from NI, and who still uses his GP in the North, my local surgery is jammed constantly with people. Jammed. It can take me nearly 3 weeks for an appointment.

I have the feeling that many of those in my local surgery are there to justify their inability to work, being 'on the sick', depressed etc. NI has a very high figure for people on DLA, anti-depressants etc. In Derry on one census 12% of the population were on DLA. That's a shocking figure.

My point would be that charging a nominal figure to attend the GP would cut the numbers using the service dramatically. If something is free, it is generally abused. I know people in RoI with medical cards, and they are constantly at the Gps with their kids.

A couple of quotes from this report:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/finance-and-practice-life-news/half-of-gps-in-favour-of-charging-for-routine-appointments/20003741.article#.VSxqJ5M3nGw

Dr Stephen McMinn, a GP in Bangor, Northern Ireland, said he was in favour of charging patients for appointments. He said: ‘[It] has been shown to work in other countries. There needs to be some pressure to decrease patient demand and expectation.’

Dr Shailendra Bhatt, a GP in Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire, said: ‘I work in a walk-in centre. The amount of people who come through the door for practically no reason at all and say “I was out and saw this sign for a walk-in centre where one can see a doctor, so I came in”… People don’t value the things if they get it cheap, worse still if they get it for nothing.’

SF12

I get totally frustrated at the debate around this.

I don't know how many times I've heard people say "I had to go to the doctor/hospital in Germany/France/Spain/Italy...it only cost me 20eur!! And prescriptions were only 10eur!" (random figures).

Yet we try to implement free GP care for kids and everyone is out in force saying it'll only be abused, or why should wealthy people get it, or it's a terrible idea because it will cost money.

I'm sorry - what are we like? This is what we want, what we proclaim is a brilliant idea in other countries. But perish the thought that we might be progressive in our thinking on this stuff. Other countries have those services because they pay more in tax to fund it (as someone else pointed out). For some reason, we are happy to keep going with a system whereby we:
-pay tax to fund the health system
-pay health insurance to cover our use of the same tax-funded system
-pay for GP/dental/consultant visit

Why don't people realise that we are paying 3 times over for the exact same service?? Why do I pay tax, pay health insurance, but still have to hand over 50eur to see the GP, or 120eur for a hospital scan (which happened recently - I was directed to their private clinic because I "have insurance", but didn't realise until too late that it still entailed me handing over 120eur)?

How is this system ok? How is this system better than what we are proposing???? This thing where we are all wedded to VHI because apparently it offers us a chance to have a better and quicker experience in our hospitals is just incomprehensible. We are in the same hospitals, seeing the same consultants and using the same facilities (operating theatres/scan machines/wards) as public patients. I know there are "Private" facilities in many hospitals now, but they are generally carved out of the existing public facilities and often share staff and equipment.

The whole setup is just so unbelievably wrong, yet when change is proposed, nobody wants anything to do with it. I just don't get the mindset on this. I don't get why I'm paying health insurance either at this stage. Yes, the free GP care may have some problems, and a small fee is a good idea. But personally I am fed up paying hand over fist for every single thing, doubly and triply, and getting next to nothing back in return. So I am totally in favour of this idea. There has to be a middle ground somewhere for those of us who are paying for absolutely everything.