Luttrelstown

ezra_

Hello.

I'm playing Luttrelstown in a couple of weeks, has anyone any tips? I've never played there before.

I'm a highish handicapper, reasonably accurate but I don't have huge distance.

PARlance

ezra_ wrote: »

Hello.

I'm playing Luttrelstown in a couple of weeks, has anyone any tips? I've never played there before.

I'm a highish handicapper, reasonably accurate but I don't have huge distance.

If you download an app such as "hole 19" you'll be able to get a feel for the course. It's a free app.

Course is a favourite of mine, it's fairly long. No real hidden dangers, it's all ahead of you.

ezra_

PARlance wrote: »

it's fairly long.

:eek::eek::eek:

Dealerz

Off topic: that's a quality app parlance- cheers for that.

Felexicon

Actually played there for the first time on Tuesday and loved it. Greens had been heavily sanded which is annoying but to be expected at this time of year.
There are lots of long par 4s throughout the course but apart from length they're not too difficult. Course itself is in great condition and the scenery is amazing. The lady in the pro shop was a joy to deal with too which is always a nice start to your day out

Dealerz

Felexicon wrote: »

Actually played there for the first time on Tuesday and loved it. Greens had been heavily sanded which is annoying but to be expected at this time of year.
There are lots of long par 4s throughout the course but apart from length they're not too difficult. Course itself is in great condition and the scenery is amazing. The lady in the pro shop was a joy to deal with too which is always a nice start to your day out

Can't diagree with any of that- always a pleasure to play

ezra_

Thanks guys. Looking forward to it.

Seve OB

love the place, its a quality course, you will really enjoy it

off now to check out hole 19 app

billy3sheets

Played here over Christmas in a 14 hole team comp. It's a lovely course and was in good condition.
However, a few points:
1. When I booked it online through the club website, it was listed as an open team competition with no indication on the booking site that it was only 14 holes.
2. It was 36 euro per player (35 green fee + 1 euro admin fee) which I thought was expensive, especially for winter golf.
3. When I went to pay, I was told it was 5 euro entry for the competition.

So, 41 euro total for 14 holes of winter golf.
Every club is entitled to set their own prices but I thought this was poor value. For example, St Margaret's had an 18-hole open for 25 euro inclusive of competition fee on the same day.
I did politely convey these points to the lad taking the entries after the round.

dan_ep82

billy3sheets wrote: »

Played here over Christmas in a 14 hole team comp. It's a lovely course and was in good condition.
However, a few points:
1. When I booked it online through the club website, it was listed as an open team competition with no indication on the booking site that it was only 14 holes.
2. It was 36 euro per player (35 green fee + 1 euro admin fee) which I thought was expensive, especially for winter golf.
3. When I went to pay, I was told it was 5 euro entry for the competition.

So, 41 euro total for 14 holes of winter golf.
Every club is entitled to set their own prices but I thought this was poor value. For example, St Margaret's had an 18-hole open for 25 euro inclusive of competition fee on the same day.
I did politely convey these points to the lad taking the entries after the round.

It doesn't seem a great way of doing it I agree, much better to list the total price when booking. I wouldn't pay €40 to play a 14 hole comp in winter either.

At the same time I think St. Margarets isn't near as good a course. Headfort New would be closer I think which is €20 or €25 during the summer which makes the price seem even more ridiculous I suppose

AGC

Have played it plenty of times and love the lay out, course was never in the condition it should have been for what it advertised itself as but since Peter Lawrie took over this year the place was immaculate (may have nothing to do with him!!!) and there is a lot more life around it.

I know quite a few lads that have re-joined/joined.

billy3sheets

dan_ep82 wrote: »

At the same time I think St. Margarets isn't near as good a course.

Perhaps Dan. They are both very good courses in the same area. In winter any difference would be less pronounced as there was placing everywhere.
I'm a member in St Margarets so it would have cost me even less.
My point wasn't to compare the courses rather highlight what I thought was poor value.

slave1

billy3sheets wrote: »

Played here over Christmas in a 14 hole team comp. It's a lovely course and was in good condition.
However, a few points:
1. When I booked it online through the club website, it was listed as an open team competition with no indication on the booking site that it was only 14 holes.
2. It was 36 euro per player (35 green fee + 1 euro admin fee) which I thought was expensive, especially for winter golf.
3. When I went to pay, I was told it was 5 euro entry for the competition.

So, 41 euro total for 14 holes of winter golf.
Every club is entitled to set their own prices but I thought this was poor value. For example, St Margaret's had an 18-hole open for 25 euro inclusive of competition fee on the same day.
I did politely convey these points to the lad taking the entries after the round.

That's a very poor show, I'd write a letter to the committee, reduced course should be fairly advertised as well as competition fees

dan_ep82

billy3sheets wrote: »

Perhaps Dan. They are both very good courses in the same area. In winter any difference would be less pronounced as there was placing everywhere.
I'm a member in St Margarets so it would have cost me even less.
My point wasn't to compare the courses rather highlight what I thought was poor value.

I get ya.

I agree it was poor value. I do think they have every right to charge what they want but should be up front about the cost. I'm sure your not the only one who would have given it a miss for the reduced holes at the higher cost.

whizbang

Was the course restricted to 14 holes or just the competition?
If you were allowed book, without a comp entry fee, then it wasn't mandatory that you enter the competition..
I would have played the 18 anyway..

I have had small issues booking online with them before. Same sort of stuff as above.

billy3sheets

When you click the 'Book a Tee Time' link you are redirected to booking site app.bookgolf365.com and fee is 35 euros. I guess it's for the green fee only. No mention there of 14 holes or additional competition fees.

Course seems to have 4 holes closed - 3, 4, 5, 6.
All competitions over Christmas are 14 holes.

gypsy79

The new head there is an ex pro that is always on Newstalk (whom I am sure he gives plenty free memberships) saying that he wants it to be a premium golf course with premium rates.

Had played it a couple of times for less than 20 euro after work and was a bit meh!

Now they are looking at 40 plus for every round. Seem to have a ttitude against people looking for value golf

Will be giving a miss i think

thewobbler

gypsy79 wrote: »

The new head there is an ex pro that is always on Newstalk (whom I am sure he gives plenty free memberships) saying that he wants it to be a premium golf course with premium rates.

Had played it a couple of times for less than 20 euro after work and was a bit meh!

Now they are looking at 40 plus for every round. Seem to have a ttitude against people looking for value golf

Will be giving a miss i think

If you regard luttrelstown as a bit meh, especially on a €20 green fee, I can’t wait to learn what you regard as top class and great value.

gypsy79

thewobbler wrote: »

If you regard luttrelstown as a bit meh, especially on a €20 green fee, I can’t wait to learn what you regard as top class and great value.

I was ranking it comparison to its rack rate. I used those cheaper rates for flying round seeing how many holes I could fit in.

For example I would rank st Margaret much better course and always 10-15 Euro cheaper

neckedit

gypsy79 wrote: »

The new head there is an ex pro that is always on Newstalk (whom I am sure he gives plenty free memberships) saying that he wants it to be a premium golf course with premium rates.

Had played it a couple of times for less than 20 euro after work and was a bit meh!

Now they are looking at 40 plus for every round. Seem to have a ttitude against people looking for value golf

Will be giving a miss i think

it's not an attitude against people looking for value Golf. it's confidence in his product and it's a good product, If 40e is not value for you, there is lots of cheaper alternatives out there not the same quality but definitely cheaper. Going back to the Op, they should 100% be totally transparent about the course in play and the rate.

BigChap1759

thewobbler wrote: »

If you regard luttrelstown as a bit meh, especially on a €20 green fee, I can’t wait to learn what you regard as top class and great value.

I’d regard it as a bit meh as well to be honest - I don’t think it’s in any way special, interesting or exciting but YMMV

neckedit

BigChap1759 wrote: »

I’d regard it as a bit meh as well to be honest - I don’t think it’s in any way special, interesting or exciting but YMMV

what does YMMV mean?

thewobbler

BigChap1759 wrote: »

thewobbler wrote: »

If you regard luttrelstown as a bit meh, especially on a €20 green fee, I can’t wait to learn what you regard as top class and great value.

I’d regard it as a bit meh as well to be honest - I don’t think it’s in any way special, interesting or exciting but YMMV

But a €40 green fee doesn’t make it special, just a touch better than normal.

For what it’s worth, Luttrelstown was a pleasant surprise to me, and better again the second time. I was expecting a roaring Celtic Tiger parkland, all about power, water features and buggies, and instead got treated to a classic style parkland, with subtleties everywhere, some wonderful approach shots, and an easy walk. That’s the kind of course I prefer myself.

AGC

gypsy79 wrote: »

I was ranking it comparison to its rack rate. I used those cheaper rates for flying round seeing how many holes I could fit in.

For example I would rank st Margaret much better course and always 10-15 Euro cheaper

Having played Margaret’s in the past and this year in Barton Shield it is a nice layout but not in the same bracket as Luttrelstown

whizbang

There's a perception in international golf management, that course quality and its attractiveness, is directly related to its posted green fee.

So quite simply by upping the green fee, the perception of its quality is upped also.
Overseas visitors are generally not budget conscious, and will not pick a €20 course.

Luttrelstown is sufficient good in quality and location to to make use of this idea. However flawed...

Seve OB

gypsy79 wrote: »

The new head there is an ex pro that is always on Newstalk (whom I am sure he gives plenty free memberships) saying that he wants it to be a premium golf course with premium rates.

Had played it a couple of times for less than 20 euro after work and was a bit meh!

Now they are looking at 40 plus for every round. Seem to have a ttitude against people looking for value golf

Will be giving a miss i think

The new head is not that new, I’d say nearly a year and a half there now and guess what, he is not an ex pro, believe it or not, he is still a pro

I’m sure he might give a few free games away to the boys in newstalk but I’d be very surprised if he gives any memberships at all away.

It is a premium course, always was and always charged premium rates till JP decided to close the place. Then we all know what happened to the country, but the members had gone, there was no market to build houses, especially ones of the exclusive price bracket Luttrelstown would have fetched, so they decided to remain open as a golf course and get whatever revenues they could so they followed suit with probably 99% of the other golf clubs in the country and offered knock down green fee rates.

Times have changed and it’s been a long time since I remember seeing a round there for any less than about 35 quid, and even that rate is very rare.

If you think it’s meh, then you are entitled to your opinion, but as someone who has played well over 200 different courses and been a reviewer for golf digest, I respectfully disagree. I like Margaret’s, but they are not in the same league.

Last point, “value”. I think you mean cheap. Value is good value for money. €40 for a round in Luttrelstown is very good value.

billy3sheets

Seve OB wrote: »

If you think it’s meh, then you are entitled to your opinion, but as someone who has played well over 200 different courses and been a reviewer for golf digest, I respectfully disagree. I like Margaret’s, but they are not in the same league.

Last point, “value”. I think you mean cheap. Value is good value for money. €40 for a round in Luttrelstown is very good value.

Well Irish Golfer ratings puts Luttrelstown #35 and St Margarets #63 so someone thinks they are broadly in the same bracket.
https://www.irishgolfer.ie/single-post/2017/11/03/The-Irish-Golfer-Magazine-Top-100-Irish-Course-Ranking-2018

Value is relative though. Korean guy I played with was usedto e250 min per round!
I would be ok with e40 for 18 holes in summer but not for 14 holes in winter.

fred funk }{

€40 for 14 holes there is too steep. I'd be hard pushed to pay that in the middle of summer for 18. It's a nice track but not near the top tier.

Milkers

https://www.irishgolfer.ie/single-post/2017/01/15/Lawries-big-plans-at-Luttrellstown

Can't help but feel his business philosophy regarding Luttrellstown was/is naive at best. I think the employees there are fortunate that the owner seems content to sit on a loss-making operation.

Miley Byrne

Seve OB wrote: »

The new head is not that new, I’d say nearly a year and a half there now and guess what, he is not an ex pro, believe it or not, he is still a pro

I think we all know Gypsy meant "Tour Pro" so I'm not sure what the ":D" is for. Also not sure I'd be still calling him a pro as he has retired as a Professional golfer and is now a Director of Golf.

Why would you still call him a pro? Is he a teaching pro as well as Director of Golf or what?

PARlance

Milkers wrote: »

https://www.irishgolfer.ie/single-post/2017/01/15/Lawries-big-plans-at-Luttrellstown

Can't help but feel his business philosophy regarding Luttrellstown was/is naive at best. I think the employees there are fortunate that the owner seems content to sit on a loss-making operation.

In what way do you think it naive at best?

From the article, I take it that:
1. He is very aware about two of the main challenges of the market: more people are time poor and there's also a race to the bottom which is unsustainable in the long run.
2. He thinks the Club / Course is in a good position to command a higher price. Deep pockets help this but I would agree that location, clubhouse, course standard, facilities such as their driving range would allow this also.

PARlance

dan_ep82 wrote: »

It doesn't seem a great way of doing it I agree, much better to list the total price when booking. I wouldn't pay €40 to play a 14 hole comp in winter either.

At the same time I think St. Margarets isn't near as good a course. Headfort New would be closer I think which is €20 or €25 during the summer which makes the price seem even more ridiculous I suppose

Location plays a big part, Headfort is fairly rural relative to a course that is situated within the M50.

Elm Green is close by, nowhere near the standard of Luttrellstown or Castleknock and has fees at €30 midweek and €40 weekend.

Having such a population within very easy reach is always going to allow a course to charge more.

AGC

Miley Byrne wrote: »

I think we all know Gypsy meant "Tour Pro" so I'm not sure what the ":D" is for. Also not sure I'd be still calling him a pro as he has retired as a Professional golfer and is now a Director of Golf.

Why would you still call him a pro? Is he a teaching pro as well as Director of Golf or what?

He hasn’t retired as a professional golfer.

I am not sure how the director of golf job was advertised if it was at all but in some other clubs such as Carton the job was advertised to European Tour professionals.

Miley Byrne

AGC wrote: »

He hasn’t retired as a professional golfer.

I am not sure how the director of golf job was advertised if it was at all but in some other clubs such as Carton the job was advertised to European Tour professionals.

So does he intened to play any events? As I said I'm sure Gypsy meant Tour Pro which is is no longer

benny79

€40 is no where near top tier at best is average green fees for above average courses which Luttrellstown is and is great value imo.. fair enough it was only 14 holes.. but I guarantee you it won't be near €40 come summer..

I have often paid €35 for a round on courses no were near the standard of Luttrellstown. The European club is €70 now (winter rate) it used to be €50 prices are going up thats the way it is.. A lot of clubs have been struggling for a long time and are now through the worse.. That's just the way it is..

P.s Thats why opens exist

mike12

Think it sits in a very inbetween spot.
It's a long way behind the premium parkland courses.
Kclub MJ druids Killeen Carton house.
Not many courses fit into just a step below them.
Maybe Headford New, Palmerston.
Only played it once and it's okay but I would rather a links course.
Played it in September and it was soft under foot then, how does it hold up over the winter?

Spider Rico

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Seve OB wrote: »

The new head is not that new, I’d say nearly a year and a half there now and guess what, he is not an ex pro, believe it or not, he is still a pro

I think we all know Gypsy meant "Tour Pro" so I'm not sure what the ":D" is for. Also not sure I'd be still calling him a pro as he has retired as a Professional golfer and is now a Director of Golf.

Why would you still call him a pro? Is he a teaching pro as well as Director of Golf or what?

I wasn’t aware that he applied for his amateur status to be reinstated? If not, then yes, he’s still a professional golfer.

Milkers

PARlance wrote: »

In what way do you think it naive at best?

From the article, I take it that:
1. He is very aware about two of the main challenges of the market: more people are time poor and there's also a race to the bottom which is unsustainable in the long run.
2. He thinks the Club / Course is in a good position to command a higher price. Deep pockets help this but I would agree that location, clubhouse, course standard, facilities such as their driving range would allow this also.

I agree they are of a high standard. But they have been of a high standard for a long time now. It has had the same location, same clubhouse, same course and same facilities for years and they have struggled to attract footfall. What exactly has changed to expect a sudden influx of traffic at higher prices?

PARlance

Milkers wrote: »

I agree they are of a high standard. But they have been of a high standard for a long time now. It has had the same location, same clubhouse, same course and same facilities for years and they have struggled to attract footfall. What exactly has changed to expect a sudden influx of traffic at higher prices?

I don't think he stated he expected a sudden influx of traffic. He said it would be difficult and it would take 2-3 years.

Golf Clubs are starting to up their prices again after a real race to the bottom. You only have to look at a weekend rate of €40 in Elm Green to see where they're coming from. The economy has changed for the better, especially in Dublin compared to 6 or 7 years ago.

3putt

I play a lot in Elmgreen and have never seen a rate of €40 . I've never payed more than €25 and you even get a breakfast with that.

Luttrelstown is worth IMO €40

Seve OB

laws of supply and demand and all that, but luttrelstown currently doesnt have a lot of members so they need to sell green fees, ive no doubt their membership will build up. think it is now €2650 for full or €999 for 5 day

as green fee rates go, the place has been reasonably busy any time i was around there in 2017 and that was a lot. if they are to expensive, people wouldnt go, and to cheap just devalues their brand, so i am sure they can work out themselves where their happy medium is and dont need to rely on dropping their rates to suit some cheap golfers.

IMO, summertime, weekends, Luttrelstown is a €60+ course all day long, and €40-€50 midweek.

Winter rates, honestly I would expect to pay the best part of €50 to play it of a weekend, maybe a bit cheaper if society group booking. Midweek, I think €30 would be very and to cheap, €35-€40 would be fair.

I'm not sure what the craic with the 14 holes above mentioned is/was, but anytime I've played 14 hole comps, there has always been the option to keep playing unless holes are out of play for maintenance/weather reasons.

It should have been advertised though, so no excuse. But I still think the rate was ok, bit amazing, but ok for 14 holes.

I'd rather play 1 game in Luttrelstown than any number of games in Elm green.

I did hear a rumour they might introduce a range membership. If they do, I'll be all over it, I reckon it would be great value at up to about €300 but it is all relevant as to how often you would use it.

3putt

Luttrelstown this year:

Introductry membership €2050

Membership 2018 €2300

5 Day €999

Looks like the range membership here Seve:

The Academy - €150The Academy - €150
The Academy @Luttrellstown is now open for membership.

€150 Six Month Membership. €99 if bought before the 31st January 2018.

Academy Membership Includes:

Use of full practise facilities.
Play the three par 3 holes.
€5 per token as apposed to €7 per token
10 tokens for €30 and 5 tokens for €20.

3putt

3putt wrote: »

I play a lot in Elmgreen and have never seen a rate of €40 . I've never payed more than €25 and you even get a breakfast with that.

Luttrelstown is worth IMO €40

I'm in the area and although I avoid Elm Green if possible I've never been in a situation where I can't get St Margarets, Corrstown, Forrest Little or similar at the weekend for around 30 euro or less. That might be unsustainable but it's the facts. Even the Carton House courses and Killeen Castle are now undercutting Luttrelstown.

That said I agree that Luttrelstown is a nice track. Prefer it to all of those except the Montgomerie at Carton House and that's a close thing. Would have no issue with 40 euro at the weekend.

I looked at membership a while back when it was about 1,400, seems to have nearly double in the space of a couple of years. Good luck to them, I hope their strategy works as there's no harm in something for everyone. On the other hand the whole business / golf pitch makes my heart sink.

BigChap1759

neckedit wrote: »

what does YMMV mean?

Apologies, Your Milage May Vary - just a personal opinion

neckedit

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Apologies, Your Milage May Vary - just a personal opinion

Thanks man.... that was killing me☺

PARlance

3putt wrote: »

I play a lot in Elmgreen and have never seen a rate of €40 . I've never payed more than €25 and you even get a breakfast with that.

Luttrelstown is worth IMO €40

Just going by their new website, they're listing it as those prices but they do have "deal" prices alright at €25. Lots of weekend slots at that. No breakfast included though. Recent changes I wonder?

Seve OB

So I was over in Luttrelstown this afternoon and spoke with Peter. The new range is now fully open with new floodlights although they haven't officially launched it yet. It is currently open till about 7pm. Range/Academy membership is usually €150 for 6 months & I think Peter said a years membership was €325 (doesn't add up!) but he would do it for €250. I signed up to for the membership for €99 for 6 months. So what do you get for your €99? In a nutshell cheaper range tokens (by €2) and access to the practice facilities.

Previously you had to go to the clubhouse shop/bar and get your balls, now you need to still go to the clubhouse but you buy a token for a ball dispensing machine which is up at the range. But you can buy a bundle of tokens up front for a discount. Handy as now you can just go straight up to the range rather than fluting around the clubhouse because at quiet times that was a pain, could of easily been up there for 15 mins trying to get balls.

The range is still open to the public and it is €7 a token or 10 tokens for €50. As a member you can buy a single bag at €5 or 10 for €30. So a €2 saving per basket means I need to to 50 times in 6 months to get value for my money.... not likely to happen....but the real benefit is the access to the putting green, chipping green and academy area.

Basically the three academy holes are being upgraded from range holes where you used to just hit range balls at the greens and leave them there and they will be 3 proper playing holes. They are short medium and long par 3's for anyone who doesn't know. There is also a bunker practice area there and a chipping green. This area was available to play if you used the range as a member of the public but it is now only going to be open to members. My understanding is the upgrade on this area won't be finished for a while, but in fairness I played them in October and they were excellent then.

Do I need it? Not really. 10 tokens for €50 was all I needed as I can use the practice greens in Castleknock. What lets Castleknock down for me though is the credits doesn't make it easy if you just want to go out and play 4 or 5 holes and really neither of the 2 practice greens are great in fairness. The practice area in Luttrelstown is far....far superior so I'm looking forward to getting over there a bit more this year. Oh yea, it's about a 90 second drive from my house!!!

dan_ep82

Nice write up and seems a great set up for you, am jealous.

How many golf balls does a token give you?
Are they new or old range balls?

In Royal Tara the range is €3 for 40 new full distance range balls, just wondering what you get for €7

benny79

Seve

would you not just join Luttrellstown Im sure they would do you a deal! I know you want to . Any update on the issue with the medal as did you hear anymore or thats that.. I would genuinely leave a club over that and go to Luttrellstown..

Seve OB

benny79 wrote: »

Seve

would you not just join Luttrellstown Im sure they would do you a deal! I know you want to . Any update on the issue with the medal as did you hear anymore or thats that.. I would genuinely leave a club over that and go to Luttrellstown..

Na. I'm a full member in Greystones and there for 29 years now, so I'm not leaving there any time soon. Castleknock is just handy, to be honest I spend most of my credits in the bar/restaurant with the wife and kids. Summer evenings I would go over a little to the chipping/putting green, really just because Greystones is to far away to spend an hour practising. No update on the medal, they just didn't bother responding to me. I attended the prize giving night and a few blokes asked me about my score for the medal I won! I didn't know them, but they knew me! Interestingly, I'm down to play my first weekend competition this coming Saturday since medalgate!

I will see how the next 6 months unfold, and I might just stick with Luttrelstown for practice and drop Castleknock altogether.

50 balls in a basket, new balls, seem ok bun no branding on them so i don't really know what they are

eoghan104

Seve, I joined Castleknock so let's get a game sometime.

When I joined it was made very clear that you need to play 3 weekend comps before you win one so at least that clarity is there now!