Are there varying degrees of Atheism

shadowcomplex

I suppose on side there isn't you either believe in a god or you don't but when it comes to religion there definitely different degrees of faith, most religious people in this country would be catholic but the vast majority don't actually practice it. I myself was born catholic, but don't have much faith there is a god but I wouldn't rule it out entirely but that's probably because of being brought up being told there is a god and its just an idea that's hard to let go of

endacl

I'm a non-practising, a la carte, cultural atheist. I dip in and out as it suits me.

One eyed Jack

Wouldn't that be varying degrees of belief then rather than an absolute absence of belief?

I don't think there's any merit in that weak atheism/strong atheism nonsense myself tbh, and I know far more people who simply identify as non-religious as opposed to labelling themselves atheist.

I imagine it has to do with the fact that either they're not aware of the concept of atheism, or they are aware of it, but prefer to avoid the negative connotations associated with the label.

human 19

"definitely different degrees of faith";
That's fine as far as it goes for Faith...i.e deciding what you choose to believe in from that particular buffet. Technically you are supposed to take the lot without question, but that's your business.

" would be catholic but the vast majority don't actually practice it."
Catholicism is a belief . Whether one who follows those beliefs decides to actually follow it's rules is a sub-topic for those who give a damn about it in the first place.

Athiesm is the belief that the stories that were instilled into you when you were a child regarding these superstitious beings, are actually a load of rubbish.

regarding whether there is a god or not...for me, maybe there is some sort of higher form on a level greater than ours. Where did the universe come from? The questions multiply the further you go back. The amazing this is...once you free your mind from the god/angels/devil story, and ask questions, the possibilities are wonderfully mind-boggling.

Unfortunately the religious want to keep the whole of the cosmos trapped in their little box of unsubstantiated beliefs.

Carawaystick

yeah, sher some people believe there's no god, while others believe there are no gods...

Harika

Dawkins created this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability

1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."

Besides that list there is the need of destinction between people that believe in a god and people that follow e.g. the catholic church. Cause as you said, still the overwhelming majority of irish people is religious, on the other side it is getting harder to recruit priests and young people that actually go to church.

nozzferrahhtoo

Many degrees. For example I joke refer to myself as an incidental atheist.

What that means is that I simply do not subscribe to ideas that people offer me without basis. And GIVEN that the idea there is a god comes before us with absolutely no substantiation at all..... I simply do not subscribe to it. I do not call myself atheist... I have no reason to.... but many other people would and do.

So I often tell people that atheism if not my world view... it is a consequence of my world view.... which is simply a world view of "If you tell me something without any reason to believe you..... then I wont believe you.... simples!"

But the degrees of atheism has generally been a theist canard. It is an attempt to lend credence to their nonsense. Think about it with any other nonsense you just make up on the spot. If I told you, for example, not to leave your house tomorrow because if you do you will be killed by a pokka dot pink VW microbus that will materialize above your head and fall upon you and kill you.... would you gauge your LACK of belief of this nonsense? Would you feel compelled to quantify just which side of non belief you have for this?

Or would you simply hear the words, not believe them, and move on regardless? Despite the fact you can not in advance disprove the proposition? Of course you would. But somehow over the centuries the theists have built up this narrative that one must not only justify disbelief but give it tiers and put yourself on one.

No. Bull Crap. THEY claim there is a god. I don't believe their claim. Quantify that yourself you claimants.

smacl

I don't think there are degrees of atheism, but there are definitely degrees of anti-theism. I don't believe in God -> I'm an atheist. Simples. That I get pissed off at the many barbaric, discriminatory, unsavoury acts and antics carried out in the name of religion leads me to be somewhat anti-theist. My anti-theism is such that I don't really care what anyone professes to believe or how they choose to lead their life, just so long as they don't try to foist it on me, my family, friends, or society. My anti-theism as such is probably better described as secularism.

ScumLord

Yes, the anti-theism is a more important factor in atheism. I swing wildly between apathy and disdain. I want to be apathetic but it's pretty hard.

Bannasidhe

endacl wrote: »

I'm a non-practising, a la carte, cultural atheist. I dip in and out as it suits me.

I always check the Table d'Hote menu as sometimes it's a good bargain.

Hotblack Desiato

The Early Bird Atheists got in before the rush.

realdanbreen

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I suppose on side there isn't you either believe in a god or you don't but when it comes to religion there definitely different degrees of faith, most religious people in this country would be catholic but the vast majority don't actually practice it. I myself was born catholic, but don't have much faith there is a god but I wouldn't rule it out entirely but that's probably because of being brought up being told there is a god and its just an idea that's hard to let go of

Out of curiousity, do you believe that the universe and all it contains is the creation of a higher power? If not how do you think it came about?

pauldla

realdanbreen wrote: »

Out of curiousity, do you believe that the universe and all it contains is the creation of a higher power? If not how do you think it came about?

I can't speak for shadowcomplexon the first question (though I suspect there is a clue in 'don't have much faith there is a god'); as to the second question, surely the answer must be 'Don't know, and neither do you'?

realdanbreen

pauldla wrote: »

I can't speak for shadowcomplexon the first question (though I suspect there is a clue in 'don't have much faith there is a god'); as to the second question, surely the answer must be 'Don't know, and neither do you'?

Fair enough but the second question was how do you "think" it all started not do you "know" how it started.

pauldla

realdanbreen wrote: »

Fair enough but the second question was how do you "think" it all started not do you "know" how it started.

Same answer; Don't know. As in 'Do you think it will rain next Tuesday?' 'I don't know.'

No harm in saying you don't know if you don't know. If you ARE interested in cosmology (and it's a truly fascinating area), there is a host of material available.

realdanbreen

pauldla wrote: »

Same answer; Don't know. As in 'Do you think it will rain next Tuesday?' 'I don't know.'

No harm in saying you don't know if you don't know. If you ARE interested in cosmology (and it's a truly fascinating area), there is a host of material available.

Obviously you don't know and neither do I or anybody else for that matter but surely you must at some stage have thought about it and came to your own take on how it all came about.OTOH maybe it is something that never crossed your mind.

pauldla

realdanbreen wrote: »

Obviously you don't know and neither do I or anybody else for that matter but surely you must at some stage have thought about it and came to your own take on how it all came about.OTOH maybe it is something that never crossed your mind.

As I said, cosmology is a fascinating area and well worth looking into. Loads of material out there; would you like some recommended reading?

My own take on the matter is, I don't know, but it's a really interesting question, and there have been many attempts to answer it down through human history. It's highly likely that we will never know 'how it all came about', though; and, as you might have guessed, I see no need for the God hypothesis.

Akrasia

I know lots of people who are atheist Monday Wednesday and Friday but theist the rest.


I think It's because they genuinely don't believe in god but have been trained to fill in all gaps in knowledge with god.

ie; God can't exist, look at all the suffering, but how does an acorn grow into a tree? It can't be 'just' nature.

I like to reply:

Nature is god, but all nature cares about Is that you follow the laws of physics

smacl

realdanbreen wrote: »

Obviously you don't know and neither do I or anybody else for that matter but surely you must at some stage have thought about it and came to your own take on how it all came about.OTOH maybe it is something that never crossed your mind.

For myself, I'm very much aware of how limited my mind is in the larger scheme of things and as such fully accept there are very many things that are, and always will be, well beyond my comprehension. By times I use abstract ideas to box off huge areas of this lack of comprehension, but these are no more than weak proxies. I suspect that for many religious people, the notion of a god or creator is an inherited abstract that acts as such a proxy. That is, rather than face into the unknown, it is more palatable to say God did it. Personally, I consider this a delusion, albeit an understandable one backed up by considerable emotional investment. Apologies if that comes across as pompous or condescending, but that is my honest take on it.

realdanbreen

I still think it all boils down to whether you think that the Universe was 'created' or not. I have yet to hear a plausible explanation other than the fact that there is a creator.

shaymus27

realdanbreen wrote: »

I still think it all boils down to whether you think that the Universe was 'created' or not. I have yet to hear a plausible explanation other than the fact that there is a creator.

It's not a plausible explanation, it's a belief.

It's not a fact. it's a belief.

At one time it was a belief that if you sailed over the horizon you would fall off the edge of the world. This is the problem with beliefs. They can turn out to be nonsense.

shaymus27

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I suppose on side there isn't you either believe in a god or you don't but when it comes to religion there definitely different degrees of faith, most religious people in this country would be catholic but the vast majority don't actually practice it. I myself was born catholic, but don't have much faith there is a god but I wouldn't rule it out entirely but that's probably because of being brought up being told there is a god and its just an idea that's hard to let go of

There's no varying degrees of athiesm. The idea is there is no God.

There are varying degrees of suiting yourself when it comes to religion if you are religious. If you are a catholic bishop who knows about abuse you can suit yourself and suit the organisation you belong to and abandon morality preachings that are meant for others but not yourself or your organisation.

You weren't born a catholic. Your parents conformed to the norms of the society they lived in and thought of you as a catholic. You were born a human without any erroneous beliefs derived from believing whatever men with power who are promoting a particular religion they derive status and wealth from are saying.

efb

Like when the woman in the hospital asked "what religion are you"- None",
"No", she goes, "what religion are you..."

Pherekydes

efb wrote: »

Like when the woman in the hospital asked "what religion are you"- None",
"No", she goes, "what religion are you..."

You should say "No religion". She probably thinks you're saying "nun". :pac:

pauldla

realdanbreen wrote: »

I still think it all boils down to whether you think that the Universe was 'created' or not. I have yet to hear a plausible explanation other than the fact that there is a creator.

It is not a fact that there is a creator.

The God Hypothesis raises more questions than it answers; not least of which is, where did the Creator come from? If you speculate that the Creator is eternal, why can you not speculate that the Cosmos is eternal?

realdanbreen

shaymus27 wrote: »

It's not a plausible explanation, it's a belief.

It's not a fact. it's a belief.

At one time it was a belief that if you sailed over the horizon you would fall off the edge of the world. This is the problem with beliefs. They can turn out to be nonsense.

Fair enough. So has anyone got a plausible explanation or theory ?
Rubbishing the existance of God doesn't equate to an alternative theory.

realdanbreen

Pherekydes wrote: »

You should say "No religion". She probably thinks you're saying "nun". :pac:

But if you were baptised a Catholic or Protestant or whatever then unless you formally renounce it then that is what you are.

Arsemageddon

realdanbreen wrote: »

But if you were baptised a Catholic or Protestant or whatever then unless you formally renounce it then that is what you are.

The Catholic church doesn't allow people to renounce their 'faith'.

realdanbreen

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The Catholic church doesn't allow people to renounce their 'faith'.

Of course it does, you are free to formally quit it at any time. The thing is there are very few really committed atheists. Most folk who say they don't believe tend to be the same people who could'nt be ar$ed going to the bother of resigning from the church.

Delirium

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course it does, you are free to formally quit it at any time. The thing is there are very few really committed atheists. Most folk who say they don't believe tend to be the same people who could'nt be ar$ed going to the bother of resigning from the church.

can you explain what the steps are to formally quit the Catholic church? Can it be done online or does a person need to contact a parish house?

Arsemageddon

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course it does, you are free to formally quit it at any time. The thing is there are very few really committed atheists. Most folk who say they don't believe tend to be the same people who could'nt be ar$ed going to the bother of resigning from the church.

I'm surprised that you know so little about your own religion.

Please state exactly how this is done.