passive aggression vs full on aggression

Robsweezie

would you rather deal with someone who skirts around issues with vague comments, without confronting the issue at hand, in a passive aggressive style, or someone who full on rants and raves, screams and shouts about the issue directly and confronts others every time, at the risk of upsetting them, in an aggressive style?

which side do you fall on? id be more the passive type myself but trying to veer away from it towards assertive.

efb

Prefer tact and courtesy myself

JacquesDeLad

Is there no option for persuasion?

cloud493

Nothing more irritating than some passive aggressive ****, frankly. Rather neither mind.

biko

I'd be more passive-aggressive because apparently it's "wrong" to punch people I don't like.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Aggressive people annoy me. Especially when they're your typical "hardman" spoofer types who couldn't box their way out of a paper bag. Sad, really.

Desolation Of Smug

biko wrote: »

I'd be more passive-aggressive because apparently it's "wrong" to punch people I don't like.

Modern niceties eh? God be with the days when a good old slap in the puss quieted the rowdiest critic.

Señor Fancy Pants

Can we not just have a cup of tea and be nice to each other?

efb

Truffle Pig wrote: »

Can we not just have a cup of tea and be nice to each other?

Apparently not

Renegade Mechanic

Truffle Pig wrote: »

Can we not just have a cup of tea and be nice to each other?

Fine. But you won't be getting sugar..

Edit: Obligatory passive aggressive smiley

One eyed Jack

They're the two extremes really and tbh I cannot stand either one. I much prefer to deal with people who are honest and assertive and don't expect that I should be able to decipher what they mean with passive aggressive crap, and equally I have no time either for the shouty, ranty types.

I have it down to an art now that I can tune out whenever I see either type coming, I can just tell by the look on their faces, both of 'em.

Eugene Norman

I'd prefer neither.

Señor Fancy Pants

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Fine. But you won't be getting sugar..

Edit: Obligatory passive aggressive smiley

Gggggrrrrr!!!

You are such a fcuking.....nice guy

efb

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They're the two extremes really and tbh I cannot stand either one. I much prefer to deal with people who are honest and assertive and don't expect that I should be able to decipher what they mean with passive aggressive crap, and equally I have no time either for the shouty, ranty types.

I have it down to an art now that I can tune out whenever I see either type coming, I can just tell by the look on their faces, both of 'em.

I just put them on ignore

Mallagio

Full on aggression....... Its someone showing emotion.

Passive is for the sly that tends to chip away at the decent imo. - Kinda like Chinese water torture.

One eyed Jack

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Modern niceties eh? God be with the days when a good old slap in the puss quieted the rowdiest critic.

Aye, there's something to be said for that alright. I used work in a plant with 400 other men, all men, and if something kicked off, there were slaps thrown alright and some downright nasty injuries, but five minutes after we'd have made up, apologies exchanged and we'd laugh about it.

Christ I miss that place

catallus

Chinese?

Great bunch of lads.

peckerhead

Avoid loud and aggressive persons, for they are vexations to the soul.

Ignore passive-aggressive ones, for they are just a pain in the hole.

pidgeoneyes

"You know the type, loud as a motorbike but wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight"

4zn76tysfajdxp

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Aye, there's something to be said for that alright. I used work in a plant with 400 other men, all men, and if something kicked off, there were slaps thrown alright and some downright nasty injuries, but five minutes after we'd have made up, apologies exchanged and we'd laugh about it.

Christ I miss that place

Sounds very professional.

I've found that anyone who pines for a lifestyle of casual violence is really just another typical Walter Mitty type. Spoofers roaring obscenities from the safety of their Transit.

bb1234567

I hate nothing more than passive aggression its so cowardly or something.
I dunno there was this guy I used to talk to and whenever I took a while to reply to a text and apologised for the lateness he'd make little jabs 'like oh don't worry its not like I had to wait an hour for your reply or anything.' or 'its okay I guess Im not interesting enough for you'
It pissed me the **** off, like just tell me you don't want to talk to me if I take too long to reply or stop moaning

One eyed Jack

Lillian Raspy Poinsettia wrote: »

Sounds very professional.

I've found that anyone who pines for a lifestyle of casual violence is really just another typical Walter Mitty type. Spoofers roaring obscenities from the safety of their Transit.

I never claimed it was any sort of a 'professional' environment. We wore boiler suits, not Armani suits for jaysus sake :pac:

You're reading waaaay too much into what I said in my post to conclude that I 'pine for a lifestyle of casual violence', and none of us would ever roar obscenities from the transit. We had more respect for people than that sort of idiocy. We kept our idiocy to ourselves

It was over 20 years ago and yes, it was an employment I remember fondly, we weren't always knocking spots off each other, and in fact we were quite a close knit group that still keep in contact to this day, where nowadays indeed I do wear a suit to work, never get my hands dirty, and do indeed miss the days of physical manual labour and the closeness we had.

If that's Walter Mitty, then call me Walter Mitty :rolleyes:

Robsweezie

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I never claimed it was any sort of a 'professional' environment. We wore boiler suits, not Armani suits for jaysus sake :pac:

You're reading waaaay too much into what I said in my post to conclude that I 'pine for a lifestyle of casual violence', and none of us would ever roar obscenities from the transit. We had more respect for people than that sort of idiocy. We kept our idiocy to ourselves

It was over 20 years ago and yes, it was an employment I remember fondly, we weren't always knocking spots off each other, and in fact we were quite a close knit group that still keep in contact to this day, where nowadays indeed I do wear a suit to work, never get my hands dirty, and do indeed miss the days of physical manual labour and the closeness we had.

If that's Walter Mitty, then call me Walter Mitty :rolleyes:

I admire how passive aggressively defensive that retort was mr mitty :0

seenitall

bb1234567 wrote: »

I hate nothing more than passive aggression its so cowardly or something.
I dunno there was this guy I used to talk to and whenever I took a while to reply to a text and apologised for the lateness he'd make little jabs 'like oh don't worry its not like I had to wait an hour for your reply or anything.' or 'its okay I guess Im not interesting enough for you'
It pissed me the **** off, like just tell me you don't want to talk to me if I take too long to reply or stop moaning

^ This, so much this. Hate that siht.

I have to say that I have found myself stooping to passive aggression on boards at times, generally with posters or remarks that I would get a ban if I actually posted what I really thought of them; although at the same time there is nothing I despise more than people being passive aggressive.

I do think I stay well clear of it IRL, especially when it comes to any kind of conflict or confrontation - I like everything aired, out in the open and cleared up ASAP.

My bf used to drive me up the wall a bit in the beginning, because unfortunately, clamming up, shutting down, and generally dispensing the silent treatment of a couple of hours or so, is his go-to emotional response to any stress or disagreement. I'm just not used to that kind of communication, and I have found it to be really damaging to the relationship. So I had to sit him down a couple of times and patiently explain that it was completely unacceptable to treat me like that, instead of talking things out like mature adults.

He must really like me, cos he has improved no end.

Cold War Kid

I'm NEVER passive-aggressive.

Mozzeltoff

I don't like either.

My father was the aggressive type. If anything pissed him off or irked him in any way at all he would shout and roar and you'd hear him all over the place. He was never violent but the ranting and shouting was enough.

I had an ex then who was passive aggressive. If he was angry with me over something he would never come out and say it. He'd just dance around the edges and drop a barbed comment. At first it made me feel bad but it didn't take too long to tell him to go **** with himself.

I prefer honesty. I have one friend who will tell me straight out if she's angry or upset with me. None of this tip toeing around with her. I admire her for it.

Ted_YNWA

Anything to be said for saying another Mass?

super_furry

Which one gets me a dig in the head?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I don't like either, but I prefer dealing with aggressive people, because I find it fairly easy to stay calm and assertive in that situation. I have a ferocious though very occasional temper myself, so I know from experience of being the aggressive person that once you start shouting the other person has the upper hand. So when someone else starts roaring and shouting that's grand, I've won

Passive aggression on the other hand, can't hack it. I've learned to call people out on it fairly quickly, and in a calm and assertive manner because if I ignore it for a while I end up reaching the end of my tether and losing my temper.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm NEVER passive-aggressive.

I catch myself at it, and I hate it about me, though I do try not to be.

I don't know where it comes from but I really wish I was better than that, but as it turns out, I'm not.

conorh91

I find that anyone who has ever house-shared tends to have great stories about passive aggressive housemates.

Are these people more abundant in the rental market, or what?

Anyway, I lived with one passive aggressive loser once. He'd never say anything to your face, but would leave notes in the fridge, send catty texts about the laundry being left in the machine, and was forever dropping veiled insults by passing them off as banter.

You know what they hate? Confrontation. Every time they pull this behaviour, confront them about it.

So when you get a vicious text, don't reply with, more of the same. Say, "we'll discuss this back at the house". (They will avoid you for days.)
When they try to pass an insult off as a joke, acknowledge what they're doing in the open, to their face.
When you get a catty note on the washing-up, show it to them later and talk about it in person.

They hate this.

Passive-aggressive people thrive on non-confrontation. So don't give them the oxygen. In my experience, as soon as you keep confronting them, they'll eventually learn to cut it out. Or at least, they'll stop doing it to you because they'll learn they cannot get away with it.

LadyAthame

conorh91 wrote: »

I find that anyone who has ever house-shared tends to have great stories about passive aggressive housemates.

Are these people more abundant in the rental market, or what?

Anyway, I lived with one passive aggressive loser once. He'd never say anything to your face, but would leave notes in the fridge, send catty texts about the laundry being left in the machine, and was forever dropping veiled insults by passing them off as banter.

You know what they hate? Confrontation. Every time they pull this behaviour, confront them about it.

So when you get a vicious text, don't reply with, more of the same. Say, "we'll discuss this back at the house". (They will avoid you for days.)
When they try to pass an insult off as a joke, acknowledge what they're doing in the open, to their face.
When you get a catty note on the washing-up, show it to them later and talk about it in person.

They hate this.

Passive-aggressive people thrive on non-confrontation. So don't give them the oxygen. In my experience, as soon as you keep confronting them, they'll eventually learn to cut it out. Or at least, they'll stop doing it to you because they'll learn they cannot get away with it.

In my experience they really wish the other party to be drawn into making the first publicly open move in a confrontation. 'YOU started it' etc.

Renegade Mechanic

I can cop both a mile off, tbh. But I'm not sure which one I prefer.. Passive aggressiveness is easy to ignore and go about like it doesn't exist. Which I do by default usually as It annoys them.

But actual aggression is right there. There's no hints or roundabout ways, you know exactly where you stand with that person which is quite nice too.

Gun to my head, I'd probably prefer full on aggression. It's more than likely directed at something that could do with being roared at

Precious flower

I don't like either but obviously if I had to choose I would say I hate passive aggression behaviour more. At least with full aggression a person get it all out in one go or at least for the time being. Yet, passive aggressive can go on for a significant time and chips away at the person's confidence they are targeting. Often in domestic abuse relationships, passive aggressive behaviour is often more damaging than right out aggression, from my observations anyway. My father behaves like that to my mother and it's draining and stressful to be around.

Cold War Kid

Candie wrote: »

I catch myself at it, and I hate it about me, though I do try not to be.

I don't know where it comes from but I really wish I was better than that, but as it turns out, I'm not.

Passive-aggressiveness isn't nice when unprovoked (very spiteful) but sometimes it's the best way to deal with someone who is being an ass-hat to you. Getting angry and shouty with them will just give them satisfaction, being calm with them yet showing you won't take their sh-t, will drive them mad.

I've absolutely no doubt you fit into the second category!

suicide_circus

Our teams in work had to be rejigged recently so that there was at least one male per team (female dominated environment) despite the fact that this setup does not harness the full potential of the group. Reason being the amount of sly passive aggressive activity which was occurring amongst the all female teams not to mention the face to face screaming bitchathons! I refuse to get involved but its really awkward to be around

LadyAthame

Just agree with me or go home...that used to be me....particularly with my political beliefs. I still am in debates on said topic. But socially I am more understanding as I get older. I have a natural aggressive streak. I am obstinate.

I distrust passive aggressive people. They make both terrible bosses and terrible employees. I am either assertive directly or logically impassive and unmoved. If you cannot win don't submit or go at it sideways, endure. Stick to your needs and principles, that is life.

Passive aggressive behavior is generally indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.Those types of people often find it difficult to make decisions in good time or often at all and procrastinate. It's about doing as little as possible to get what the person wants. Which means they usually don't get it. It's usually catty and marked by a negative personality.

In a workplace or from a client etc it's damaging towards productivity. When a person refuses to work toward a mutually agreed upon goal or to mutually agreed upon rules but in fact attempts to sabotage said goal. On the surface they may attempt to look productive but are often in fact lazy, catty and negative. It's terrible if a boss is passive aggressive or an employee. They get nothing done. They cause drama. They are suited to neither role in the work place and so put themselves apart in an isolating way. I seen it again and again. They might be chronically late for work or uncommunicative etc.

Malicious compliance is one example. But it can be used positively one example is the work to rule example in industrial action.

Social undermining is another one. Disguising criticism behind a veil of pleasant ambiguity so you cannot answer. As I said they make neither a good employee nor a good boss. They are generally poison to a group. People who are like this a lot usually find themselves isolated.

They usually procrastinate can't make decisions want to get what they want with little personal effort, have a negative attitude and want to exaggerate and over complain about personal misfortune. They never apologize nor admit wrong doing.But this is usually part of it because they are usually uncertain of what it is they actually want. Or they know they can't have what they want and can't let go. But on the other hand, it can be used conscientiously as in the work to rule example or peaceful protests. We are all guilty of it to some degree. It can be used positively sometimes. In a negative sense though not only is it supremely frustrating for both parties involved, but it's also incredibly unproductive to the passive-aggressive person because his or her needs aren't actually ever acknowledged or addressed.

There is something witholding about the interaction and you are told there is not to your face yet expected to let the person keep up the feigning of sincerity so you can be made to look ridiculous. These people have an underlying fear and avoidance of direct conflict, yet a feeling of powerlessness and helplessness. Yet they cannot let someone who IS good at these things take over. They withold intimacy or information or use sarcasm. They want to try and provoke confrontation in the other person first.

It's topping from the bottom basically. They are neither assertive nor passive nor impassive and usually never end up getting what they want.They find people who enable them. People who give in. But that in the end does them no good.They learn that powerful and volatile people cannot be approached directly, but it's OK to lie to them, or keep secrets to get what you want or go about it indirectly while that person tries to figure out what is going on.

People who are avoidant and afraid of conflict are more likely to be passive-aggressive, as are people who are low in self-esteem and self-confidence they don't feel they have permission to have their feelings. The 'passive person' off-hands powers to others The 'assertive person' maintains a good balance between understanding his or her own needs, and accommodating the needs of others. The 'aggressive person' is power hungry and ego-centric. He or she has little or no regard for other people's desires or opinions and wishes to meet their goals regardless of any hurt feelings.

Directness or being assertive is not neanderthals beating each other up it's sincerity balance and consideration.

But as with everything. It has it's place. It's useful I would imagine in business to delay products to withhold sales to boost demand sometimes. The fashion world does that sometimes. It's a passive aggressive technique. But between people it usually means the passive aggressive person's goals/aims/feelings are never acknowledged.

zeffabelli

Passive aggression is a means by which to take no accountability for your anger.


To subtly provoke, demean and invalidate.

Will often drive the other party into aggressive reactions to make them look like the baddie.

I'd take a good old fashioned fight any day of the week.

SoulTrader

Passive aggressive must be the most overused term on Boards. I have never heard anyone use it outside of this website.

Cold War Kid

What if the other party is being the unreasonable one and doing the provoking? It really depends on context IMO.
Of course just using passive-aggressiveness to psychologically torment and chip away at someone's confidence and humiliate and bewilder them is appalling (been on the receiving end myself) but as a reaction to provocation I think it's very understandable.

One eyed Jack

conorh91 wrote: »

I find that anyone who has ever house-shared tends to have great stories about passive aggressive housemates.

Are these people more abundant in the rental market, or what?

...


Passive-aggressive people thrive on non-confrontation. So don't give them the oxygen. In my experience, as soon as you keep confronting them, they'll eventually learn to cut it out. Or at least, they'll stop doing it to you because they'll learn they cannot get away with it.

I think the above is actually applicable in any interpersonal communications tbh. I've held a number of different roles in various careers, and by far I prefer to deal with people who are assertive and decisive, that can communicate their points in a courteous and mannerly way and value honesty and integrity over their ideas of 'professionalism' - ie, the passive aggressive, negative atmosphere that sets in when people instead of being up front with each other, choose to play 'office politics' for appearances sake.

It can absolutely suck the life out of a team, and it only takes one, but if that one is weeded out, it makes whatever work needs to be done, a lot easier on the rest of the team. I absolutely cannot stand people who when they are confronted then, try to maintain that it's someone else's fault or try to shift the responsibility off themselves.

I remember one girl I worked with who was famous for it, and it really upset the rest of the team and caused a bad atmosphere in the office, and like Lady Athane pointed out above, it really was affecting productivity and efficiency, and when I took her aside one day to have a word with her, she tried to justify her behaviour by claiming that her father was a big deal in some other MNC, and "my father taught me this, that and the other, and he's a professional". I simply replied that there was no way her father got to the position he's in if he behaved in the same way she did.

One thing I've always noticed and admired about some of the world's top business people is that they are assertive, but fair, and they treat everyone they meet with respect, dignity and courtesy. It's only unfortunate that some people when they get so much as a sniff of authority, it goes to their heads, but that's because of their attitude underneath towards other people.

zeffabelli

Candie wrote: »

I catch myself at it, and I hate it about me, though I do try not to be.

I don't know where it comes from but I really wish I was better than that, but as it turns out, I'm not.

You live in a culture where anger is taboo and doubly so for women.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I've absolutely no doubt you fit into the second category!

I've been quite snide occasionally, but it's not something I do deliberately or plan: it's just out before I stop myself. I like to think that I'm very provoked before I snap, and that it's usually quite deserved, but still it's not a nice way to be. I'm working on it though.

LadyAthame wrote: »

Passive aggressive behavior is generally indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.Those types of people often find it difficult to make decisions in good time or often at all and procrastinate. It's about doing as little as possible to get what the person wants. Which means they usually don't get it. It's usually catty and marked by a negative personality.

That's a pretty extreme list. When I've been guilty of passive aggressiveness, it's in the form of a barb or dig, which I instantly regret and mostly apologise for. You're beyond that when you display the full list above; that's full-on antisocial obnoxiousness. I suppose it's a spectrum.

Conor Bourke

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm NEVER passive-aggressive.

Which smiley is most passive-aggressive?



Or

:rolleyes:

There's a poster (haven't seen them around in a long time) who was the master of passive-aggressive smiley use, they were all used liberally to underline the pure poison of her posts. Ole rolleyes was the main ammo in her arsenal. I hate that rolleyes, he only gets deployed in extreme cases.

Aongus Von Bismarck

A regular mindfulness meditation practice can really help in building an emotional toolkit for dealing with aggressive people you encounter. It brings a loving kindness to the encounter. It can also be useful for handling aggressive tendencies that may rise within oneself.

suicide_circus

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

A regular mindfulness meditation practice can really help in building an emotional toolkit for dealing with aggressive people you encounter. It brings a loving kindness to the encounter. It can also be useful for handling aggressive tendencies that may rise within oneself.

Just say **** ffs

One eyed Jack

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

A regular mindfulness meditation practice can really help in building an emotional toolkit for dealing with aggressive people you encounter. It brings a loving kindness to the encounter. It can also be useful for handling aggressive tendencies that may rise within oneself.

Wouldn't be into it now myself, but I have to agree with the above in terms of the people I've met who have taken up mindfulness and meditation. The change in them is quite noticeable to varying degrees - less stressed, less aggressive and so on, and they seem to have a far more positive attitude to life and in their interpersonal relationships.

conorh91

Headspace is a great app for that.

I haven't bought the extended version yet, but I've just finished the 10-day exercise and learned some good de-stressing techniques.

The one about picturing your stress as passing cars, and just letting them drive by without dwelling on them, was a useful exercise I thought.

ILikeBananas

I work with an extremely passive-aggressive guy. Some of the things he does:

• Assumes that certain actions by others were done to antagonise him and gets the hump but crucially doesn't inform the person. The result is that he gets into foul moods and nobody knows why
• Remembers everything negative or embarrassing that people have done in the last few years and brings them up at peculiar times. Usually to bring the person down a peg or two when he's having a routine bout of self esteem issues.
• Constantly judges people while at the same time trumpeting his own perceived moralistic stances on issues
• Is so eager to take the hump that he's even taken the hump for other people in situations where he wasn't even directly a part of the conversation. (I've coined the phrase "hump-by-proxy" for this)
• Has to get the final word in on every argument ever.
• Passionately supports a certain football team. If they win he's the stereotypical bad winner crowing and rubbing it in people's faces. If they lose he gets thick with anybody who mentions it and acts like they've just spoken ill of the dead.
• Outside of work he doesn't have much trouble meeting women but all his relationships break down after a couple of dates. He then moans about how he's 'too nice' for his own good and that women only want bad boys.
• The result of all of the above is that people actively avoid him outside of work and then he gets thick about that bemoaning other's 'loyalty' and his lack of 'real friends'

In short he's an insufferable pain in the arse.

e_e

Whenever passive-aggressive people are brought up I'm always reminded of this Dylan Moran bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FCWq6-WxHA