Architect problems

minktrapper

How do architects charge.

DOCARCH

minktrapper wrote: »

How do architects charge.

For what?

Hoop66

minktrapper wrote: »

How do architects charge.

Like a wounded bull...

Jellybaby1

If you mean a break down of their services on an invoice, I have no idea. The only time I used an architect was about 20 years ago for a small domestic job on the front of the house. He came, measured up, wrote down my requirements and left. A few weeks later the plans arrived with the invoice for several hundred quid (can't remember how much). He never even came to see if the job was done to spec. It could have fallen down for all he cared.

Strolling Bones

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

If you mean a break down of their services on an invoice, I have no idea. The only time I used an architect was about 20 years ago for a small domestic job on the front of the house. He came, measured up, wrote down my requirements and left. A few weeks later the plans arrived with the invoice for several hundred quid (can't remember how much). He never even came to see if the job was done to spec. It could have fallen down for all he cared.

I trust you paid him?

Jellybaby1

I did. It was the first and last time I ever used an architect.

the_syco

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

He never even came to see if the job was done to spec. It could have fallen down for all he cared.

Had you employed him to plan it, or to supervise the construction as well?

OP; depends on what you asked him to do.

Strolling Bones

minktrapper wrote: »

How do architects charge.

they carefully listen to what you want them to do for you.
then estimate how much time is invloved for them
then calculate a fee.

Inspection report?
Planning Application?
BER Calcs?
Construction drawings?
Design Certifier ?
Assigned Certifier?
Health and Safety Project supervisor?
Mindreader?

Strolling Bones

Hoop66 wrote: »

Like a wounded bull...

thick skinned and likely to charge anything

RORY O CONNOR

It can be a % of the project cost.

Jellybaby1

the_syco wrote: »

Had you employed him to plan it, or to supervise the construction as well?.....

I asked him to draw up plans for the job. I assumed that he would follow up the job. I didn't expect him to supervise the job, just to inspect it and make sure it was built to his specifications so I could be sure it was done properly. I wouldn't have known if they had used the right materials or not. Anyway its all water under the bridge now as it happened so long ago.

Gumbo

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I asked him to draw up plans for the job. I assumed that he would follow up the job. I didn't expect him to supervise the job, just to inspect it and make sure it was built to his specifications so I could be sure it was done properly. I wouldn't have known if they had used the right materials or not. Anyway its all water under the bridge now as it happened so long ago.

You did not engage him to inspect the works, but yet you expected him to inspect the works???

the_syco

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I asked him to draw up plans for the job

So... you got what you asked for, and don't like architectures he didn't come back and supervise the build for free. Bleh. You get what you pay ask for, tbh.

Poor Uncle Tom

kceire wrote: »

You did not engage him to inspect the works, but yet you expected him to inspect the works???

the_syco wrote: »

So... you got what you asked for, and don't like architectures he didn't come back and supervise the build for free. Bleh. You get what you pay ask for, tbh.

Easy boys! the lady was merely expressing her opinion, times were very different so long ago, where Architects took more than a passing interest in the works they carried out.

I remember on one occasion an Architect called into a business owner in a local town and gave a mouthful to the building owner because the Architect didn't like the colour scheme the building he designed was now painted.

Like it or not times were different back then, people expected and quite often got more for their money then, obviously that wasn't always the case.

minktrapper

minktrapper wrote: »

How do architects charge.

I have hired an architect to do 2 different jobs in the last 5 years or so.I will start with job number 2.An extension to an existing house.I asked him for a price to design the extension.1500 euros was the price.He then needed 250 euros more to survey the existing house.Plans were drawn up.Showed them to me.We made a few minor alterations and the plans were to be changed.I called again to see the changes and a set of builders drawings were laid in front of me.I was happy enough with what he had done except the extension was very long.I asked his professional opinion what did he think.After all he is an architect.He reckoned that everything was fine and we should continue with that plan.We then went for planning.To lodge an application with the co.co. he needed another 1000 euros.I nearly dropped on he spot.He broke the cost down and I said work away.I was up the walls with work at the time.While the application was in the council I said I better check out the plans on the ground and see what they appear to look like in real life so I got two 2 by 1s and pegged them in the ground.The extension was massive going way out on the existing lawn.There was one room 33 feet long.
Contacted the architect again and explained to him what I thought.We need to shorten the extension 3 feet.He wanted another 400 euros to change the plans.We did that and sent new drawings in to the council.The size of the build is 1000 sq. ft..

Am I being robbed.

Strolling Bones

Blind. Completely.

minktrapper

Thought as much.But what does one do.

Strolling Bones

Anything to be said for another mass?

minktrapper

But seriously what does one do

John_Mc

You've paid for the plans up to date. Take your business elsewhere, preferably to someone who has been recommended to you

Strolling Bones

what he said

minktrapper

John_Mc wrote: »

You've paid for the plans up to date. Take your business elsewhere, preferably to someone who has been recommended to you

This is the person who was recommended to me.

Strolling Bones

Maybe it's you then

John_Mc

minktrapper wrote: »

This is the person who was recommended to me.

Well then get another recommendation or do your research and find someone with experience?

Seriously, you either challenge the architect to justify his expenses and/or go elsewhere.

I personally wouldn't keep throwing money at someone if he was carrying on like that. I'm in software engineering which isn't a million miles from what's required to build a house and I need to justify my estimates & costs to my client.

BryanF

minktrapper wrote: »

I have hired an architect to do 2 different jobs in the last 5 years or so.I will start with job number 2.An extension to an existing house.I asked him for a price to design the extension.1500 euros was the price.He then needed 250 euros more to survey the existing house.Plans were drawn up.Showed them to me.We made a few minor alterations and the plans were to be changed.I called again to see the changes and a set of builders drawings were laid in front of me.I was happy enough with what he had done except the extension was very long.I asked his professional opinion what did he think.After all he is an architect.He reckoned that everything was fine and we should continue with that plan.We then went for planning.To lodge an application with the co.co. he needed another 1000 euros.I nearly dropped on he spot.He broke the cost down and I said work away.I was up the walls with work at the time.While the application was in the council I said I better check out the plans on the ground and see what they appear to look like in real life so I got two 2 by 1s and pegged them in the ground.The extension was massive going way out on the existing lawn.There was one room 33 feet long.
Contacted the architect again and explained to him what I thought.We need to shorten the extension 3 feet.He wanted another 400 euros to change the plans.We did that and sent new drawings in to the council.The size of the build is 1000 sq. ft.
Am I being robbed.

You should have stalled the process prior to planning lodgement, if you didn't like the design

the architect should have made it clear that planning fixes the external footprint if the building

the architect charging to change/deal with council and amend construction drawings for that price seems very reasonable.

BryanF

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Maybe it's you then

Let's all be constructive and respectful please. Or if you don't like some posts or posters try to pass over them .thanks

minktrapper

I don't mind paying whatever it costs to draw up the plans and associated fees so long as I am not been ridden.Lets face it I will be living in the house for the rest of my life so having it planned right is a must.But am I really been robbed of my money.

the_syco

minktrapper wrote: »

The extension was massive going way out on the existing lawn.There was one room 33 feet long.

Did you give him any dimensions at all? It sounds like you said you wanted an extension, and he gave you an extension, but you decided you didn't like the size, so changed it a few times. I don't begrudge him from charging repeatedly, as you are getting him to do more work.

minktrapper wrote: »

I asked his professional opinion what did he think.After all he is an architect.He reckoned that everything was fine and we should continue with that plan

You ask someone else for a 2nd opinion, not the guy whose work you are questioning.

Did you know what you wanted going in, or did you just give him a blank canvas?

Strolling Bones

minktrapper wrote: »

But am I really been robbed of my money.

No you were not

minktrapper

the_syco wrote: »

Did you give him any dimensions at all? It sounds like you said you wanted an extension, and he gave you an extension, but you decided you didn't like the size, so changed it a few times. I don't begrudge him from charging repeatedly, as you are getting him to do more work.


You ask someone else for a 2nd opinion, not the guy whose work you are questioning.

Did you know what you wanted going in, or did you just give him a blank canvas?

I knew what I wanted when I started and told him same but no one is ever going to get it right the first time round.It is when you start seeing it on paper you really get a feel for it as such.I am very happy with the final draft though.You would think architects would allow for this in their pricing.

the_syco

minktrapper wrote: »

You would think architects would allow for this in their pricing.

The following is not a criticism levelled at you, but as a reason why people charge for each alteration, instead of charging more at the start.

If you're in the business long enough, you'll find out that if you give something to someone for free, it'll be abused. Some people do change their mind constantly, and the best way to counter this is to ensure that you charge them for each alteration. Well, in web design anyway, but I'd say it's the same for architects as well.

minktrapper

the_syco wrote: »

The following is not a criticism levelled at you, but as a reason why people charge for each alteration, instead of charging more at the start.

If you're in the business long enough, you'll find out that if you give something to someone for free, it'll be abused. Some people do change their mind constantly, and the best way to counter this is to ensure that you charge them for each alteration. Well, in web design anyway, but I'd say it's the same for architects as well.

Agree with you totally.

RORY O CONNOR

+1.

If you do something for free it is not valued-important to always charge something.

Dr_Bill

I think the key thing missing is an agreed scope of works from the outset outlining the costs and setting the expectations with the Client from the start. If the Client is looking to go through the planning process all costs should have been defined, in this instance it doesn't seem as if that happened so it appears to look like death by a thousand cuts and results in ill-feeling which is a shame.

The architect is right to charge for their time for design changes. Depending on the size of the project it may not be cost effective to engage an architect and it may be better to work with a builder?

Strolling Bones

Change your mind with a builder to truly find out what "extra" means....

Dr_Bill

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Change your mind with a builder to truly find out what "extra" means....

Which again is fair enough! Imagine a Client asks the builder to just knock the wall they have just constructed and have it moved?

You pay for the wall to be built in time and materials, then you pay for it be knocked and again for it to be rebuilt. The builder is not going to absorb that cost and why should they?

The difficulty for architects and builders is the majority of their Clients cannot visualise in 3D and hence appreciate what they going to get when the walls go up, the space looks small and congested, Client is not happy makes changes and the costs start to rise.

In instances like the above on a decent size project a good architect will work with you and actually save you money in the longer term as design changes during construction are expensive. Its easy to move walls and change design in CAD, make a few models and visualisations and pay a couple of hundred € rather than hand over thousands in extras during the construction phase!