Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think he's always been in favour of meritocracy and change in the Pro12, on the record too.

He has been, which is why it was an odd way to frame the question, maybe they had forgotten that point.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was under the impression it was a mental approach sort of role, analysis and decision making etc. But maybe you're right, if it is I wonder how he ended up in going that direction.

It could be either I suppose. Possibly even a bit of both. Or he could just be teaching them some of the mental skills we've seen him produce before....

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also interesting how he was so quick to point out that he agreed with the English and French after such an embarrassingly leading question... but maybe best to not dwell on that bit...

On that......

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Spoke about a learning curve during his time there and specifically said that they think they are there or thereabouts, but that still doesn't mean they get it right all the time.

This was the bit that interested me the most. Obviously we could all debate (possibly endlessly) what he meant but it seemed that regardless of what he did or didn't mean he was thinking of something in particular when he said it.

SaveOurLyric

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's been a "Mental coach," it'd be interesting to know what that means.

While we might benefit from a mental coach, we are all stocked up on "Mental coaches" at the moment thanks.

thomond2006

Have you exhausted all the ways you can say you want MOC out? Come on SoL, it's getting a bit old in fairness!

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

This was the bit that interested me the most. Obviously we could all debate (possibly endlessly) what he meant but it seemed that regardless of what he did or didn't mean he was thinking of something in particular when he said it.

Well I don't think it was anything regarding the ERC, as he had very little power over any of that, by design.

I'd imagine he was referring more about financials and those types of negotiations, and particularly what I'd imagine to be the very murky waters of assessing overseas talent and getting deals done with them.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's been a "Mental coach," it'd be interesting to know what that means.

If he is announced as a coach within the week then those hoping for a termination of MOC's contract should be pretty worried. If they are shopping around for another coach then appointing more backroom staff is an odd way to be going about it.

Unless we lose v Bath I cant see MOC going anywhere at this stage. If we lose a home quarter and fail to make the playoffs I can see it happening but they'll be very reluctant to make changes in a World Cup year

Tox56

thomond2006 wrote: »

Come on SoL, it's getting a bit old in fairness!

So is MOC

#Bazinga #MOCout

molloyjh

Tox56 wrote: »

Unless we lose v Bath I cant see MOC going anywhere at this stage. If we lose a home quarter and fail to make the playoffs I can see it happening but they'll be very reluctant to make changes in a World Cup year

It's a tough one either way. We're going to have to resign ourselves to a lean season given we'll be missing so many guys to the Ireland squad unless we can sign some real talent in a few key positions. Would any coach be able to make a success of next season? Probably not. That's not a reason to avoid bringing someone new in or anything, just something I think we'll need to accept no matter who the coach is.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

Unless we lose v Bath I cant see MOC going anywhere at this stage. If we lose a home quarter and fail to make the playoffs I can see it happening but they'll be very reluctant to make changes in a World Cup year

I think it's more likely than not that we won't make the playoffs and I think the game on Saturday is 50-50, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if we find out whether or not that is enough to see the management seek out a replacement, I doubt it would be.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's more likely than not that we won't make the playoffs and I think the game on Saturday is 50-50, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if we find out whether or not that is enough to see the management seek out a replacement, I doubt it would be.

It's too late at this stage to start that process anyway surely?

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

It's too late at this stage to start that process anyway surely?

I don't think it'd be too late purely because the position is prestigious enough to attract candidates out of current employment, but it would be far from ideal. I suppsoe if MOC resigns his position then they would need to start the process. But by all accounts the squad are fully behind him so that doesn't seem at all a likelihood.

.ak

Here's one for SOL

http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/brian-odriscoll-unrealistic-leinster-fans-expect-too-much-31112627.html

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, I think the real problem is finding those players. Leinster need a 9 and are trying to find one but I don't think there's much out there. It's a big need for us though so I hope they're willing to shell out for it.

As for utility backs, I think it's quite rare that one who can cover at 10 is ever able to bring much in the position, if Isa does come back as a player/coach that might be our slot used there though I suppose.

8 weeks ago you said that there were loads!

Coming around to my scepticism?

total former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

8 weeks ago you said that there were loads!

Coming around to my scepticism?

In fairness, he said there were loads at Peter Stringer's level, and there are, but long term we need more than that.

total former

total former wrote: »

In fairness, he said there were loads at Peter Stringer's level, and there are, but long term we need more than that.

I think trying to organise a long term signing at 9 is important, however I don't think we're going to get anyone in September that we'd like to have for 3 years.

What we 'want' is someone who could be a fringe international at RWC15, and subsequently decides that that was their last chance, and want to earn some cash before retirement.
We basically want Whitaker again.

None of those type of players are going to move pre-RWC though, and given that we want cover during the RWC & 6Nations, we will only be after a 9 for this season that wont be near those competitions.

total former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think trying to organise a long term signing at 9 is important, however I don't think we're going to get anyone in September that we'd like to have for 3 years.

What we 'want' is someone who could be a fringe international at RWC15, and subsequently decides that that was their last chance, and want to earn some cash before retirement.
We basically want Whitaker again.

None of those type of players are going to move pre-RWC though, and given that we want cover during the RWC & 6Nations, we will only be after a 9 for this season that wont be near those competitions.

Yeah agree with all that.

I suppose it all depends on the assumption that Reddan plays on after the world cup. Given how often he's injured this season, he may not. If he does retire then our needs become very different.

Buer

I went to the OTB event in Drogheda last night. Good craic and a free beer thrown in too, can't go wrong.

On this weekend, Neil Back was the only one of the final panel (BOD, GT and Hogan also) who thinks Bath will win. But BOD did admit earlier that he doesn't expect us to click as a side and that players coming back from international duty will not be on the same wavelength. He spoke about how in earlier seasons there was a game or two to get back into it and this is going to be a difficult one.

The winning of the game will be in the mental approach and the leadership, they felt. BOD namechecked Heaslip and Kearney as being the two guys that will come back into the camp this week and get the lads focussed and demanding higher standards and aggression.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

8 weeks ago you said that there were loads!

Coming around to my scepticism?

No not at all. I'm talking about guys who can start in Europe here. You're taking that quote completely out of context. I showed you examples of guys who are better currently than Stringer, I've no interest in that calibre of player and I hope Leinster management are setting their sights a little higher.

If they can't find someone then a stopgap will do I suppose. But I would be very worried.

padser

Ignoring peoples personal opinions on whether or not it's warranted, how far do you think we are from chants of of 'MOC out" in the RDS?

It would be a huge change in the RDS to see it, I'd worry we might see it if we lost to Bath and were then trailing in a Pro12 game by double scores at home.....

awec

That won't happen.

At worst you'll have people in the Anglesea muttering under their breath that MOCs continued presence is souring the taste of their fine bottle of prosecco.

Dravokivich

CatFromHue wrote: »

Isa is the guy who kicks the bin and then throws it across the dressing while shouting.

Ah mental as in nuts.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No not at all. I'm talking about guys who can start in Europe here. You're taking that quote completely out of context. I showed you examples of guys who are better currently than Stringer, I've no interest in that calibre of player and I hope Leinster management are setting their sights a little higher.

If they can't find someone then a stopgap will do I suppose. But I would be very worried.

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. But I still stand by the idea that there really are no 'level above' players that we'd want to tie into a 3 year contract that will be looking for a move from September onwards.

And in that situation, we're looking for a Stringer / Mike Blair 'please mind this shirt and give McGrath some support and guidance' signing to give us a little breathing space & time until the 'almost-internationals' are available the following season.

In that regard, signing an IQ player means that we're not going to step on anyones toes, or annoy anyone (not that we really will anyway) when it comes to getting a big name NIQ in the same position the following season.

Every time I think of the situation I wonder why Cooney was allowed go to Connacht tbh. I'd have been more than happy with himself and McGrath for the 5/6 games during the RWC tbh.

.ak

padser wrote: »

Ignoring peoples personal opinions on whether or not it's warranted, how far do you think we are from chants of of 'MOC out" in the RDS?

It would be a huge change in the RDS to see it, I'd worry we might see it if we lost to Bath and were then trailing in a Pro12 game by double scores at home.....

I hope we don't ever become a team that's governed by the fans.

Whilst I know the above comment is offensive to some, the truth is the fans don't have the same sort of insight or knowledge or understanding as to what's going on, even the most educated and articulate of them.

A part of me would die if Dawson succumbed to cries of 'MOC out' and sacked him because it wasn't sitting right with the fans. They're a professional team.

irishbucsfan

There are ex-internationals available who are in far better shape than Stringer though, on a level above.

Plucking one out of the air, what about Andrew Ellis? He's playing in Japan. He's a 31 year old ex-AB. There's a couple more in Japan if I remember right. I know Leinster were looking at someone younger but there are a few guys capable of starting for us about.

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

Every time I think of the situation I wonder why Cooney was allowed go to Connacht tbh. I'd have been more than happy with himself and McGrath for the 5/6 games during the RWC tbh.

Step 1: Loan Cooney to Connacht
Step 2: Get Cooney back for, oooh a week or so, to convince Connacht that we really value him and they're lucky to have him.
Step 3: Sign Kieran Marmion, tell Connacht they'll be grand, sure don't they have Cooney?
Step 4: Laugh maniacally, preferably in some sort of underground lair.

RuggieBear

total former wrote: »

Step 1: Loan Cooney to Connacht
Step 2: Get Cooney back for, oooh a week or so, to convince Connacht that we really value him and they're lucky to have him.
Step 3: Sign Kieran Marmion, tell Connacht they'll be grand, sure don't they have Cooney?
Step 4: Laugh maniacally, preferably in some sort of underground lair.

Step 5: Play Issac Boss anyway

Dravokivich

#Justice4Willis

padser

.ak wrote: »

I hope we don't ever become a team that's governed by the fans.

Whilst I know the above comment is offensive to some, the truth is the fans don't have the same sort of insight or knowledge or understanding as to what's going on, even the most educated and articulate of them.

A part of me would die if Dawson succumbed to cries of 'MOC out' and sacked him because it wasn't sitting right with the fans. They're a professional team.

Sorry but I think that's a little naive (assuming you believe this is the case now as opposed to this being an idealistic "how I'd like it to be" statement).

Ultimately all teams (exception being ones that are privately owned and thus don't need money from fans) are governed by fans.

Dawnson has to keep fans coming through the turnstiles. In the short term (a matter of months) he can ignore fan demands and say "I know best" but in the medium term (ie around 1 cycle of season tickets) he will have to change coach if it's damaging revenue.

All clubs are fan governed at the end of the day

Sangre

padser wrote: »

Sorry but I think that's a little naive (assuming you believe this is the case now as opposed to this being an idealistic "how I'd like it to be" statement).

Ultimately all teams (exception being ones that are privately owned and thus don't need money from fans) are governed by fans.

Dawnson has to keep fans coming through the turnstiles. In the short term (a matter of months) he can ignore fan demands and say "I know best" but in the medium term (ie around 1 cycle of season tickets) he will have to change coach if it's damaging revenue.

All clubs are fan governed at the end of the day

Fans are like shareholders, they are effectively ignored for day-to-day purposes but if they start making a lot of noise you eventually need to pay attention as they'll vote with their feet and stop coming through the turnstiles.