Football Crisis - What's to be done?

WesternZulu

It's very much a problem that is blown out of proportion and influenced by the general GAA media at a national level who seem to have an apathy towards gaelic football.
On the other-hand consider when you last heard a game of hurling described as 'bad'?
Now hurling is a great game but in no sport is there never is a bad match; to think otherwise would be deluded.

Ireland are after winning the 6N with a game that is far from expansive. Other than the last game where they had to go hung-ho Ireland played a fairly conservative brand of rugby.
In fact, rugby in general has foregone its flair for a more physical and a game based on making yards. However, the same media outlets that bemoan gaelic footballs failings don't dedicate half as many column inches to the failings of rugby.

And none of the above is the fault of the hurling or rugby journalists but rather gaelic football sensationalists like Pat Spillane and Joe Brolly. Gaelic football is in a far better state than when they played despite what they tell us.

It's worth remembering the aussie rules received similar assessments as gaelic football has now but the game evolved.

Fr Tod Umptious

WesternZulu wrote: »

It's very much a problem that is blown out of proportion and influenced by the general GAA media at a national level who seem to have an apathy towards gaelic football.
On the other-hand consider when you last heard a game of hurling described as 'bad'?
Now hurling is a great game but in no sport is there never is a bad match; to think otherwise would be deluded.

Ireland are after winning the 6N with a game that is far from expansive. Other than the last game where they had to go hung-ho Ireland played a fairly conservative brand of rugby.
In fact, rugby in general has foregone its flair for a more physical and a game based on making yards. However, the same media outlets that bemoan gaelic footballs failings don't dedicate half as many column inches to the failings of rugby.

And none of the above is the fault of the hurling or rugby journalists but rather gaelic football sensationalists like Pat Spillane and Joe Brolly. Gaelic football is in a far better state than when they played despite what they tell us.

It's worth remembering the aussie rules received similar assessments as gaelic football has now but the game evolved.

I think your right about it being blown out of proportion.
It's the league and we need something to talk about.

And as others have stated the biggest proponents of the ultra defensive systems are at the bottom of the table.

I was at Mayo v Tryone and to be honest Mayo did not look like they were making a huge effort to get past Tyrone at times, it was almost as if they had a heavy weeks training and decided to take it easy.

There would be far more intensity in a championship game.

It must also be remembered the last few Ulster teams to have won Sam have done so playing a far more expansive game than had done previously.

corny

We're on the cusp imo.

Dublin were lauded as champions of everything thats great about football last year and the year before. There was talk of them proving teams don't have to adopt the blanket defence to be successful. Talk didn't last long of course. Dublin were exposed last year by the blankets greatest exponents and now they're showing clear signs they'll follow suit when things get serious. In fact, Mayo are probably the only decent team not playing defensively now but that won't last.

McGuinesses 'system' (very logical if you think about it) is a clear leap in strategy that when you break it down is decisively effective. Knowing this why wouldn't you follow suit? Seriously its a no brainer. Eventually, when all teams do follow suit, you're going to have a basketball type scenario- you attack/we defend or we defend/you attack. Its the logical conclusion.

Now i agree games involving the blanket provide their own fascination and as pointed out maybe crowds will actually increase with the more competitive spectacle but its just not the game i want. Something can't be done soon enough imo.

LeinsterDub

CatFromHue wrote: »

Until people stop going/watching the games the GAA can say there's nothing wrong or that they can do.

Been to two Dublin league games this year. No intention of going to a 3rd if they make the playoffs.

The game on Saturday was unwatchable

Borders no.2

Football is miles more professional than it was even 10-15 years ago and there is no use looking back with rose tinted glasses but even if it was less professional I enjoyed going to matches where the aim was to score more than the opposition rather than the race to the bottom that it has become.

There is great discipline and tactical work involved with setting up defences and most sides are extremely fit and able to cover the ground. I respect every team has to adapt and set up as best they can to suit their resources but from a spectators perspective I certainly don't want to spend my time watching a game where 7 or 8 points will be a winning score over 70+ minutes.

nice_guy80

Its the league ffs. I'd nearly argue there are too many games in the league.

The quicker round robin games come into the championship the better.

8 groups of four, 3 games for each team, seedings for knockout games based on standings.

Stoner

You are always going to get that, you possibly do a bit of it yourself. It all changes when you win an All Ireland, the reason you were slagged becomes the reason you win, it's just crap, like cavan being the black death, puke football was a terrible label to put on something that took so much time to develop and twig.
Teams should be allowed to play and set up as they like. I don't think think there should be rules to limit the style of say Donegal as it is a system that has produced some good football to watch.

Contrast that to Derry, I think their style is wrong for football. If you could make rules that looked at the difference between Derry and Donegal you might be on to something.
I don't see anything wrong with Monaghan either.
Playacting aside I'd remove nothing that stopped an inferior or a smaller County team from playing to its strengths.

TBH the thing I hate the most in GAA is lads faking injury.

Stoner

It might make it easier for Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Donegal but that's it. Breaking up Dublin won't help Leitrim beat Mayo.
Or Antrim Beat Donegal, or Tip beating Kerry.

It would not be positive for me or any of my friends who've supported Dublin all their lives.

Why not split up Mayo it's huge, split it up until it's fair for Leitrim. Then you have lots of Mayo lads could get intercounty experience it would positive for everyone involved including Mayo.

corny

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Its the league ffs. I'd nearly argue there are too many games in the league.

The quicker round robin games come into the championship the better.

8 groups of four, 3 games for each team, seedings for knockout games based on standings.

What does "its the league" mean? Do you think they're practising only to abandon the tactics in the summer?

If anything this years league has been a huge step up on what we've seen before. Previously teams didn't really bother with out and out blanket defence stuff in spring because its very taxing. Tyrone came to Croke Park a couple of weeks and it was a outright military operation. There's only one way these teams are taking it and thats better blanket defence.

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Another thig that must be mentioned too, for all the hysteria over defensive teams.

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Had that dublin team been allowed to run riot like they could do and rack up a few all Irelands on the spin, be interesting to see then how many people would be perfectly agreeable to a defensive shut out to get rid of them!

TBH that suggests that the defensive system was developed to stop Dublin.

Its overstating the significance of McGuinesses single win against Dublin

Dismissive of Mayos non defensive system victory over Dublin in 2012

And completely dismissive of two fantastic teams Tyrone and Kerry.

It was most likely Tyrone McGuinesses planned to overthrow with that system.

Trying to create fear that without this system the dreaded Dubs wound run riot is a little small minded if you ask me as I don't believe the majority of Football fans genuinely think like that, also the system was most likely development to Out Tyrone, Tyrone.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The game isn't evolving unfortunately. We've had close to ten years of over defensive play and its been getting worse year on year and I don't see any improvement coming soon unless some rule changes are implemented

I've seen about 1 good match in the ulster championship in the last 7 or 8 years and the entertainment value of the game has been severely reduced in recent years due to the over defensive nature of some games.

The annoying thing is that when the game is played well it's the best game in the world and we always seem to get some top class matches in the latter stages of the championship but this doesn't compensate for a large amount of crap people have to endure before that.

You can't really blame coaches as the blanket defence is a successful enough strategy and Derry for example got within 4 points of dublin on Saturday because of it.If they played "normal" football they would have been hammered.

Currently we have a situation where their is little incentive for teams to play in a positive manner and little incentive for teams to attack and little incentive to kick pass the ball.

The only good thing about this year is that the media have finally began to realise that handpassing is not the issue and it is the blanket defence that is what needs to be fixed.

Either going to 13 a side or a rule where a certain amount of players have to be within certain distance of the goal they are a attacking at all times (say 5 inside the 65) would in my opinion make a big difference and solve the issue however I can't see any changes being made as it is extremely difficult to get even minor changes introduced due to the conservative nature of the association and the 2/3 majority rule.

J Cheever Loophole

I'd have to say that I checked in here in the expectation that there would be hysteria about the death of football at the hands of those fiends from Ulster and have been pleasantly surprised by the measured response. Indeed there have been some great posts - Tom Joad and klairondavis, I doff my hat - and a recognition that the problem is being blown out of all proportion.

I don't have an awful lot to add beyond what has been said, save to say that I grew up in the seventies and early eighties when our Championship was dominated year-on-year by two giants of the game - Kerry and Dublin - who each engaged in duck shoots as they marched forward to their date with each other. I've mentioned elsewhere about the 17,000 attendance at our All Ireland semi-final with Kerry in 1982, with about 15,000 of those present from Armagh - that match, like many of that time, was played in a crumbling, empty stadium and made for depressing viewing - yet it's often referred to as a golden age.

robbiezero

The problem in the last year is not of one team playing the defensive system, but now when the top teams come up against it, they match it with their own blanket defense and trust that having the better players will be enough to see them through a dour struggle as it did for Dublin on Saturday night and Dublin v Donegal in 2011 and for Kerry in last years All Ireland.
The catalyst for this was the Dublin v Donegal semi-final last year where Dublin set up in their usual attacking mode and got destroyed by a counter-attacking Donegal. We saw Mayo at home to Tyrone a few weeks ago, utterly clueless against their blanket defence and beaten easily on the counter-attack. They will surely be looking to implement something like Dublin and Kerry now when they encounter this again.

As some have said the defensive system itself is fine when its just one team doing it and they have a decent counter attack.
Once Donegal added the counter-attacking element to their game after 2011, they were very watchable and played good football, but this was largely due to the fact that the opposing team played their normal game against them. Unfortunately now, like on Saturday night, the second team or the favourites are going to set up just as defensively and you will see this awful lateral passing slow game like we did on Saturday night.

iDave

A big problem we have is a very select number of pundits seem to set and control the national debate. They set the agenda after every match when everyone is still watching and like sheep the print/online media follow. Unfortunately this select group are sensationalist and cant argue their point in a grown up fashion. Its usually rants, colourful language, exaggerations and sound bites. Many of us can see through it but many don't and base their opinions on this. I was largely in favour of Sky entering the market, perhaps they should engage their powers of positivity better in year 2.
Now I do miss how the game was played in the 90s where a group of 8 teams had All Ireland ambitions and went all out for it. Nevertheless I don't believe in rule tinkering to counteract how certain teams play. One of the joys of Gaelic Football is its simplicity. Its not hard to explain and only soccer is less complicated. This is why it grew as the GAAs number one sport, the ease of play. Introducing hand pass restrictions, x amount of players in one half etc sends it down the Rugby route whereby only the hard-core know why frees and penalties are given.
What needs to be done is referees rewarding attacking play more. How often do we see a lad field or receive a pass only to be mugged by 3 or 4 defenders. He's harried and harassed into over carrying or going to ground and handling it there. Rarely is any proper attempt made to actual dispossess. This is where leadership is needed by referees. Any swings that don't make contact with the ball should be a free, that will discourage random swarming and if he's brought to ground in hope he'll handle it again a free to the player in possession.
The basic skill of a real Gaelic Football tackle is post where you punch the ball cleanly out of a players hand is lost and as a result we see defenders crowding out a player 3 or 4 at a time. If you need that many to tackle one player its no surprise most of team are back in their own half.

Jampip

km79 wrote: »

Football involving any of the ulster teams is absolutely horrible to watch . Horrible. And it's slowly creeping into most teams .
Something HAS to change . I wonder do players / forwards on these teams even enjoy it ? And 2 of those teams look likely to be relegated so what's the point ?
Anyway rules changes must be made.
I like the idea of having to keep a certain amount of players inside the opposition half but will it just end up with the middle sector being congested?
Limit on hand passes too possibly ?
The one thing that really annoys me though is the number of backward passes to the keeper by all team.
This is I couplet because of the blanket defences so will need to Be addresses in tandem with other things.
Something HAS to he done though.
People can't honestly have enjoyed the first half of Dublin Derry for example ? An awful awful advert for the game
As is the entire ulster championship.
Dublin , Mayo, Cork , Kerry etc can play with the same "intensity" ulster is lauded for without resorting to 100% negative tactics
We need change
Rant over

Going into this thread I wondered how many posts it would take before I read a rant about the Ulster championship.

Regarding the two Ulster teams being relegated from Division1, two of the counties vying for promotion are Down and Cavan so they may well be replaced by two Ulster counties. You also have Donegal and Monaghan operating in Division 1 so there'll be at least three Ulster counties in Division 1 next year I expect, if not four. There'll also be four to five in Division 2. In fact, next year, eight of the nine Ulster teams will be operating in Division 1 and 2, Antrim being the only exception. Therefore your initial argument "what's the point" is blatantly incorrect.

You talk about Kerry not resorting to negative tactics. Did you watch their matches last year? It was often 14 men behind the ball and O'Donoghue left in as a one man forward line. When they were struggling, Donaghey was thrown on and the ball was lumped into him - junior B stuff but it worked. Hardly the beautiful game we see it lauded as though. I never watched as cynical a game as Kerry vs Mayo in Croke Park. Mayo weren't allowed to run the ball without being fouled.

Of course Cork, Dublin and Mayo don't need to resort to overly negative tactics - they're handing out severe beatings to most of the rest of their provinces.

Say what you like about Ulster football but at least its competitive. As others have said, when I go to a match, I'd rather watch the intensity that Cavan and Monaghan will bring to Breffni than Dublin beating Meath or Kildare again by twenty points.

Nib

While I agree with Tom Joad's post on the first page, I believe some small tinkering needs to be done. A rule whereby a player can only be tackled by one player at a time would put a stop to this blanket defence to some degree. There's nothing worse than seeing a team's marquee forward being surrounded by 3 or 4 hatchet men and then "fouling the ball". What's he supposed to do, where can he go? I would like to see the game become 13 a side too but that won't happen.

It's rife at club level too, I don't blame people for not attending games as much these days. Most games are a hard watch.

Tom Joad

Nib wrote: »

While I agree with Tom Joad's post on the first page, I believe some small tinkering needs to be done. A rule whereby a player can only be tackled by one player at a time would put a stop to this blanket defence to some degree. There's nothing worse than seeing a team's marquee forward being surrounded by 3 or 4 hatchet men and then "fouling the ball". What's he supposed to do, where can he go? I would like to see the game become 13 a side too but that won't happen.

It's rife at club level too, I don't blame people for not attending games as much these days. Most games are a hard watch.

Would 100% agree with you on this and while I don't think the game is dying or in crisis there is room for some rule changes and the particular one you highlighted does need addressing. Let's just not throw out the baby with the bath water.

There was a great article a few years ago about the evolution of the game and some of the hysteria that surrounded that at the time. One bit in particular was about Dublin in the early 50's changing the way the game was played to combat the dominance of the legendary Meath full back Paddy Hands O'Brien who destroyed full forwards for fun. The Dublin team changed tactics and put a nippy wee lad in who dragged Paddy around the field and Dublin ran riot. There was consternation about it - Dublin had ruined the game and it wasn't gaelic football anymore it was athletics, the high fielding skills were gone - blah, blah. That nippy wee lad was Kevin Heffernan and it wan't the ruination of the game. The game survived and thrived!

Same with the Kerry team of the seventies and the use of the handpass.

Difference now is that there is constant media analysis and the same voices are being heard all the time (usually Spillane and Brolly) but it's easy for them as people don't seem to form their own opinions anymore - they just rely on a soundbite from one of the panel and run with that. And that's not a dig at anyone here btw - it's great that we can have this discussion here without the hysteria.

keane2097

Jampip wrote: »

You talk about Kerry not resorting to negative tactics. Did you watch their matches last year? It was often 14 men behind the ball and O'Donoghue left in as a one man forward line.

TBF, that just isn't accurate.

robbiezero

keane2097 wrote: »

TBF, that just isn't accurate.

Certainly isn't. They went fairly blanket defense in the All-Ireland final alright, which was the sensible thing to do after seeing what happened Dublin. Dublin look to be adopting this approach this year also i.e. meeting blanket defense with blanket defense

MayoAreMagic

Stoner wrote: »

It might make it easier for Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Donegal but that's it. Breaking up Dublin won't help Leitrim beat Mayo.
Or Antrim Beat Donegal, or Tip beating Kerry.

It makes it fairer on every single team in the country. Teams from the Leinster championship now have the lowest average league position of all provinces. The reason for this is guys from Leinster counties outside Dublin have nothing to play for and are giving up on the game. Dublin on the other hand saunter to a provincial title and an AI semi every year. The times they don't make the final is when they are caught on the hop. That is obviously a big issue. Competitiveness is the key to a successful competition. Teams should be having really tough games from the provincial final on, not the second last game where you might get caught on the hop.


Leitrim has it's own issues, but that needs to be looked at on it's own, not lumped in with the Dublin issue. That is like saying we cant make a decision on gay marriage until the solution also caters for the issues on abortion. They have their own parameters and should be treated as such. That is simply whataboutery.

Stoner wrote: »

It would not be positive for me or any of my friends who've supported Dublin all their lives.

I appreciate that, but to be frank about it, the good of the gaa as a whole takes precedence over what some fans only looking out for their own county. The argument of 'what me and my mates want' never made many objective arguments. Have you ever stopped to consider what the Laois man and his mates, or the Kildare man and his mates want? You have to take on board that Dublin have too many advantages over everyone else and that is detrimental to the game as a whole. If you and your mates wont do that then you are only looking out for yourself.

Stoner wrote: »

Why not split up Mayo it's huge, split it up until it's fair for Leitrim. Then you have lots of Mayo lads could get intercounty experience it would positive for everyone involved including Mayo.

Well, because mayo are a county with the average population of any county in the country. It makes no sense to take a competitive team with the average population and dismantle them into several teams of the same size as Leitrim, you are basically removing a competitive team and replacing them with several non-competitive teams. That isn't helping the game in any way. Nor does it address the issue around Dublin being a de facto province (it has almost 3 times the population of connacht). However, taking a county with 10 times the average population and a squad that is far far stronger than everyone elses, and making two teams with 5 times the average population (yes, you would still have 5 times the population of mayo or donegal - each), does make sense. You don't seem to realise, you could have 2 Dublin teams contesting the AI final, easily, and Id have no issue with that, because the next year you might have 2 other teams, and he next 2 other teams, because teams would be more even, and that is a positive thing.

wackokid

klairondavis wrote: »

All sports thrive on competition. Gaelic football moreso than most. Ulster football gets a lot of criticism from neutrals. Some of it is justified. However, the local crowds will flock to watch the Ulster Championship. It might not be pretty a lot of the time but almost every county believes they have a chance and that's what gives it meaning and relevance.

The obvious contrast is with Leinster football. I was at the Laois v Kildare match on Saturday evening and although the conditions were poor it was a fairly open and entertaining game. Despite this the attendance was disappointing. When both teams were competitive 15 years ago a local derby between the two would have drawn twice the crowd that was there on Saturday night. I've noticed a huge drop off in the Kildare support in recent years and it's a similar story up in Meath. They're two of the traditionally best supported counties but many matchgoers have given up because they don't see any hope of success in Leinster. On the other side of the coin Dublin's support has also dropped off. Between 1996 and 2001, Dublin couldn't win a Leinster Championship yet they would draw much bigger crowds for provincial games than they do now. A lot of fans probably think what's the point in paying €30 to watch a turkey shoot. I suspect if more Leinster teams adopted much more negative tactics there would probably be an increase in attendances because the championship would be a lot more competitive. There's no point in being easy on the eye if you're getting hammered out the gate whenever you meet a good team.

A few small tweaks to the rules would make a big difference to football:

All kickouts having to travel beyond the 45 would be a good starting point. Most teams are happy to surrender possession from a short kickout because it allows them to pull men back and pack their defence. It would also promote high fielding which is one of the great spectacles of our game and is in danger of becoming a lost art.

Give referees the power to advance the ball thirty metres rather than thirteen. It's a pity this proposal wasn't passed not so long ago. Teams strategically foul in their own half of the field to give themselves time to get their forwards back into defensive positions. The amount of quick frees that are stopped by opposition players is staggering. They'll think twice if the ball is brought forward by the referees and suddenly it becomes a scoreable free. It works very well in Australian Rules Football.

Only allow two men tackle an opponent at the one time. One of the ugliest sights in the game is when one of these rucks develop where the man in possession is surrounded by three or four opponents. Referees interpretations of these rucks are often inconsistent, particularly at club level. It is a great source of frustration for players and spectators. When there are more than two tacklers, surely they can't all be tackling the ball legally?

Abolish the black card and trial the sin bin again instead. Granted this would probably be scuppered because of the difficulties implementing it at club level. The thinking behind the black card is sound enough but it isn't really enough of a deterrent. Reducing a team to fourteen players for seven or eight minutes goes a bit further. Also widen the scope beyond the so-called 'cynical fouls' to include persistent fouling. Multiple frees against you, take a break for seven or eight minutes.

Congrats........really good attempt at improving the game for players and spectators which is surely the object of the exercise. Not sure about the long kick out though, as the 1st two changes you propose would probably be enough to change the game.
Having read through every post on this subject I am amazed that referees have escaped so here's my tuppence worth to improve the game for everybody.

RULE 1 A senior intercounty referee must have played senior intercounty football for at least one year.

Yes I know that is radical, but not impossible. Make it worthwhile for ex players financially to become refs and make life difficult for players who disagree with their decisions on the playing field as in rugby. I believe one of the main reasons that ex players do not become refs has to do with the abuse.

robbiezero

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

However, taking a county with 10 times the average population and a squad that is far far stronger than everyone elses, and making two teams with 5 times the average population (yes, you would still have 5 times the population of mayo or donegal - each), does make sense.

It's not far stronger than everyone elses. We would need to wait at least 10 more years before we can see if Dublin are so strong that this step might be required. For now there have been far, far more dominant teams than this Dublin team have been i.e. Kilkenny in hurling for the last 15 years, Kerry and Tyrone in the last decade. Kerry in the 70's , 80's.

I would certainly do away with the provincial system or separate it from the All-Ireland championship, the excitement is long gone out of it and the likes of the Leinster championship is a stroll for Dublin whereas the Ulster championship is a huge dogfight.

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

TBH that suggests that the defensive system was developed to stop Dublin.

Its overstating the significance of McGuinesses single win against Dublin

Dismissive of Mayos non defensive system victory over Dublin in 2012

And completely dismissive of two fantastic teams Tyrone and Kerry.

It was most likely Tyrone McGuinesses planned to overthrow with that system.

Trying to create fear that without this system the dreaded Dubs wound run riot is a little small minded if you ask me as I don't believe the majority of Football fans genuinely think like that, also the system was most likely development to Out Tyrone, Tyrone.

That wasn't the intention.

We all know what the media are like, and the general population. Dublin the best thing since sliced bread win a couple of Irelands, the jealousy kicks in, then people start advocating defensive teams to stop them.

That type of thing.

MayoAreMagic

robbiezero wrote: »

It's not far stronger than everyone elses. We would need to wait at least 10 more years before we can see if Dublin are so strong that this step might be required. For now there have been far, far more dominant teams than this Dublin team have been i.e. Kilkenny in hurling for the last 15 years, Kerry and Tyrone in the last decade. Kerry in the 70's , 80's.

It absolutely is stronger. Plus, you don't seem to factor in that there are numerous players in Dublin that, given the opportunity could develop into high level county standard players. I mean if donegal, Kerry, tyrone and mayo can put together teams with roughly 150,000 people, then surely Dublin can make 2 with 1.5 million?

Kilkenny and Kerry are different - they had the same resources as everyone else and then went to dominate. If you split Dublin and one of their teams dominated for a decade that would be fair enough, because they would have had the same starting point as the rest.

robbiezero wrote: »

I would certainly do away with the provincial system or separate it from the All-Ireland championship, the excitement is long gone out of it and the likes of the Leinster championship is a stroll for Dublin whereas the Ulster championship is a huge dogfight.

Has it not occurred to you that the reason for that is because it is so unbalanced? If donegal had 10 times the population of everyone else in ulster, that would just be a stroll too.

robbiezero

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It absolutely is stronger. Plus, you don't seem to factor in that there are numerous players in Dublin that, given the opportunity could develop into high level county standard players. I mean if donegal, Kerry, tyrone and mayo can put together teams with roughly 150,000 people, then surely Dublin can make 2 with 1.5 million?

Kilkenny and Kerry are different - they had the same resources as everyone else and then went to dominate. If you split Dublin and one of their teams dominated for a decade that would be fair enough, because they would have had the same starting point as the rest.




Has it not occurred to you that the reason for that is because it is so unbalanced? If donegal had 10 times the population of everyone else in ulster, that would just be a stroll too.

Dublin are not that much stronger than Cork or Kerry and possibly Mayo if the new management manage to keep them at their levels of the previous few years. The Kerry squad is arguably as strong.

Dublin has had "10" times the population for as long as the GAA has existed. Why are they only "dominating" in the last 5 years. And I use the word dominating very loosely here. Its a good period for Dublin but there is no guarantee it will last, it is far too soon to be talking of breaking up Dublin.

MayoAreMagic

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

That wasn't the intention.

We all know what the media are like, and the general population. Dublin the best thing since sliced bread win a couple of Irelands, the jealousy kicks in, then people start advocating defensive teams to stop them.

That type of thing.

So it kicks in when Dublin scrape two 1 point AI final wins, but not when Kerry win 4 AIs in one decade...:rolleyes:
The defensive system wasn't brought in for Dublin at all. The actual reason why it is annoying Dublin fans is because they are struggling with beating teams using it. I recall many of them were happy enough with it in 2011, when they were using one themselves.

bucketybuck

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If donegal had 10 times the population of everyone else in ulster, that would just be a stroll too.

If population is king, then why do Antrim struggle?

elefant

robbiezero wrote: »

Dublin are not that much stronger than Cork or Kerry and possibly Mayo if the new management manage to keep them at their levels of the previous few years. The Kerry squad is arguably as strong.

Dublin has had "10" times the population for as long as the GAA has existed. Why are they only "dominating" in the last 5 years. And I use the word dominating very loosely here. Its a good period for Dublin but there is no guarantee it will last, it is far too soon to be talking of breaking up Dublin.

It would be great financially for the GAA and as a spectacle to have 2 or 3 strong Dublin teams, but it would be earth-shattering in terms of breaking of tradition and the spirit of county pride that's very important to the inter-county game.

MayoAreMagic

robbiezero wrote: »

Dublin are not that much stronger than Cork or Kerry and possibly Mayo if the new management manage to keep them at their levels of the previous few years. The Kerry squad is arguably as strong.

I think you are confusing squad with starting team. The Dublin squad is unmatched by anyone ever. Again, given time to develop, Dublin would easily produce 2 teams of the level of mayo or donegal etc.

robbiezero wrote: »

Dublin has had "10" times the population for as long as the GAA has existed. Why are they only "dominating" in the last 5 years. And I use the word dominating very loosely here. Its a good period for Dublin but there is no guarantee it will last, it is far too soon to be talking of breaking up Dublin.

Well because it has become more professional, and that brings a reliance on resources. Not to be confused with paying players - that's not what Im saying, but the preparation, gyms, best of care etc costs money, Dublin can throw a lot more around than anyone else. Also, the gaa is far more popular in Dublin now, they have clubs with more members than some counties have players to pick from. To sum up, they weren't really using that financial and population muscle in the past, they are now.

Jampip

keane2097 wrote: »

TBF, that just isn't accurate.

In the games against Mayo and Donegal, when they needed to, that was what Kerry resorted to.