Does the ESB install a parked car with all charge Points?

tcpip1414

Hi all,
I just left back a new Nissan Leaf that I had taken for a 4 day test drive.
The car was fantastic and really suits most of our driving. The only thing that makes me pause before buying is that in 4 days, EVERY SINGLE charge point that I came across had a car parked in front of it preventing me from charging the car.
I dont think anyone would park their car in from of a filing station pump and head off to work for the day, but it seems that the Electric point is an exception to that rule...
There was one car parked with someone in it about to head off and when I asked them if they could let me charge my car, I was told they could not find another spot and to go look for another charger..
I was stunned at peoples attitude... There are only 40 fast charge points in all of Ireland, so to block a single one, should be an offence (This is the only time I would advocate clamping).
Anyone got any legal ways to ask repeat offenders to stop this without glueing a sign to their car pointing out how much of a prick they are??
Pity the ESB has such a useless number of points for what was a great car...
Thanks for the vent...

Cuddlesworth

tcpip1414 wrote: »

I was stunned at peoples attitude... There are only 40 fast charge points in all of Ireland, so to block a single one, should be an offence (This is the only time I would advocate clamping).

But its not an offence. And most public chargers I saw were put into premium parking spots in high demand areas. Any idiot could see what was going to happen.

Disabled spots with actual laws behind them have people parked in them to let people "pop" into the shops for 2+ hours.

tcpip1414

I suspect that will change soon as the cars become more popular. These are the only spots that if blocked, there is absolutely no alternative and would venture into the legal region of impeding someone from going about their daily life, and that is 100% an offence, though I doubt a Garda would be very supportive..

vandriver

If you do find a charging point free,don't forget to pay the parking charge.

tcpip1414

One more point on the placement of the charge points...
I completely agree that they were placed in premium spots and this was just stupid... They should be placed in the furthest point of car parks or the last place that anyone will choose to park to at least try and ensure they are kept free. The placement matches the thought in the number of chargers....
Nicely done again ESB...
0 for 2 so far...

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Couple of charging spots have been put in beside me and they have road markings saying "ELECTRIC VEHICLES ONLY". So no excuse really.

There's a charging point outside the Mater and I don't think I've ever seen an electric car charging or the space free. There's always a car parked in the spot though.

They could just make it a parking offence to park/stop in the parking spot unless it's electric. EUR 500 fine will sort the problem out pretty quickly.

tcpip1414

Reply to:vandriver: If you do find a charging point free,don't forget to pay the parking charge.



Not an issue at all this time, if you cant charge, you have to keep going....

tcpip1414

Wonder what the law is if you parked directly behind the car blocking the charge point and ran the cable to your car and then walked away..
2 wrongs dont make a right, but the charge is more important than an inconsiderately parked car..

Renegade Mechanic

Who's to say your car doesn't "run out of juice" right beside the parked car?

polydactyl

Many people run the cable if it stretches to a non charger spot and if the space is clearly marked for EV only in a car park and some eejit parks in it then I have witnessed EV park behind them and charge and tough luck if they can't get out it's their fault (but only in clearly marked spaces not the random road side ones obviously)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Happened to be at the Topaz in Dublin Airport yesterday. The relatively new charging station has two spots with two large signs, "electric vehicles only". Both spots taken with Taxis vehicles. No drivers to be seen.
It must be a pain in the arse to get a charging point. I definitely would agree with boxing non electric vehicles in to get (an electric) charge. Hopefully it'll teach them a lesson.

toadfly

vandriver wrote: »

If you do find a charging point free,don't forget to pay the parking charge.

A lot of councils don't charge for parking while charging. Mayo is one.

vandriver

toadfly wrote: »

A lot of councils don't charge for parking while charging. Mayo is one.

Dublin City Council do.

toadfly

vandriver wrote: »

Dublin City Council do.

I'm aware. I was just pointing out that not all councils charge.

irishgeo

toadfly wrote: »

A lot of councils don't charge for parking while charging. Mayo is one.

Any electric cars in Mayo?

nokia69

irishgeo wrote: »

Any electric cars in Mayo?

who knows

but I did see a few leafs in Galway, so chargers will be needed in Mayo

testicle

nokia69 wrote: »

who knows

but I did see a few leafs in Galway, so chargers will be needed in Mayo

Would a leaf even get to Mayo from Galway?

nokia69

testicle wrote: »

Would a leaf even get to Mayo from Galway?

of course

toadfly

irishgeo wrote: »

Any electric cars in Mayo?

I personally know of two. I've been to north Mayo with my leaf numerous times. Handy having free parking!

testicle

nokia69 wrote: »

of course

Would it get back?

cros13

testicle wrote: »

Would it get back?

I've gone from Dublin to North Mayo in a Leaf... and back.

In June I'm going to Berlin in my i3... and back. With the Rapid chargers along the way... 4300km there and back.

Mayo is getting a Rapid charger this year as part of the ESB expansion.

tcpip1414

Hopefully it will not break down.. ESB don't seem to fix them when they do..

peposhi

My argument to the eejit that won't move his car that blocks me from reaching a CP would be the following real time conversation:

-How would you feel if you run out of gas and at the ONLy available pump at the petrol station I have parked my Leaf and you can not refuel.
-I will go to the next petrol station -he says
-Well there are 3/5/30 petrol stations in the town with 6/10/60 refueling points for you. I have one and the nearest second is an easy 20km from here so would you please, move your car before I @€;&?€:)/);&(@;@:&(€;



Or I will just put a banana in his exhaust pipe (God bless you Eddie Murphy )

reboot

tcpip1414 wrote: »

Hi all,
I just left back a new Nissan Leaf that I had taken for a 4 day test drive.
The car was fantastic and really suits most of our driving. The only thing that makes me pause before buying is that in 4 days, EVERY SINGLE charge point that I came across had a car parked in front of it preventing me from charging the car.
I dont think anyone would park their car in from of a filing station pump and head off to work for the day, but it seems that the Electric point is an exception to that rule...
There was one car parked with someone in it about to head off and when I asked them if they could let me charge my car, I was told they could not find another spot and to go look for another charger..
I was stunned at peoples attitude... There are only 40 fast charge points in all of Ireland, so to block a single one, should be an offence (This is the only time I would advocate clamping).
Anyone got any legal ways to ask repeat offenders to stop this without glueing a sign to their car pointing out how much of a prick they are??
Pity the ESB has such a useless number of points for what was a great car...
Thanks for the vent...

I tried to flag the charging issue "Public charge points a nightmare into 2015"in a Thread back in December.
The situation has not improved over the last two years I have been suffering from so called "'Icing" and may never for the following reasons.
Ecarni.com in the North tell me they have only painted some of the bays green so as not to offend Petrol drivers.
This often results from a discussion with the petrol car driver who does not know that the charge points have two outlets,as only one bay is market
NIE/EBB argue that CP placement is determined by access to a 3 phase 415V supply,which seems to mean they are right beside the restaurant,loading bay, trade, or white van man entrance at hotels.
About 50% of the bays in S.Down are on private land and I believe will never have parking fines.
There appears to be no enforced legislation to introduce fines in Any of the bays,even DRD car parks, and traffic wardens/Police stay well away from the issue, won't discuss it.
The situation is also not entirely clear regarding parking in Hotel land, with the years grace now over and "Hotel Guests only" signs up near me.
Hard to believe that two years on from the Ecar launch in Titanic Quater no one seems to be across any of these issues regarding access to charge the car, never mind the woeful failure rate of the charge points in my experience,waiting sometimes months for a repair,with zero feed back from anyone.
Put that in your radio programme?

Once the Co Councils start fining motorists who ICE charging bays , people will stop pretty quick. Carlow Town is another place where the charge points are regularly ICE'd, though two of the charge points have been out of service for months !!!

Athy charge point is usually free but it's broken about 1 month or so though showing as working on the ecars map, I doubt it's working now. But they will get an ear full from me again next time if it's broken and showing as working on the Map !

For private places like garages etc, it's up to the owner.

Topaz Dublin Airport, I'm not surprised to see such a busy location ICE'd , only when people go in every time and complain will they do something about it. It is a very tight location and I would have thought the Airport could afford to install a Fast charger and charge for the leccy. The ideal place would be actually in the Airport, I presume the charge points already there are only 3Kw capable and of no use.

Gen 2 leccys will greatly reduce the need for the public charge points, but the fast chargers will still be needed. Gen II leccys are only 2-3 years away.

beauf

They would need to sort that. If you can't get to charging point, because non EV are parking in those spots. It really calls into question the viability of electric car. They should have an electric bollard that only activated by something on the car.

tcpip1414

It is a real shame.
The car was great and if there was a reliable infrastructure of Chargers (That you can get to) then I would buy the car.
I will not be buying this car due to the awful service from the ESB.
Why bother starting this, if they are not going to make it viable and over a week on the charger is still not working.. (I would be fairly cold by now if I was stuck waiting..

tcpip1414

tcpip1414 wrote: »

It is a real shame.
The car was great and if there was a reliable infrastructure of Chargers (That you can get to) then I would buy the car.
I will not be buying this car due to the awful service from the ESB.
Why bother starting this, if they are not going to make it viable and over a week on the charger is still not working.. (I would be fairly cold by now if I was stuck waiting..

I manage fine 99% of the time but I'm charging at quiet periods, 8 am and 8 pm.

You could wait another 2-3 years and Leaf II and the GM Bolt will be hopefully available in Ireland then, hopefully Opel Ireland will import the Bolt and not pull a stunt like Kia Ireland and not import the Soul EV because they feel Irish people won't have the interest so why bother even advertising it ?

The Bolt promises 200 miles and the Leaf is sure to have the "option" of at least twice the range. You should not need to rely on many chargers at this point.

What really needs to be addressed is allowing people in estates who have to park on the street to be allowed to install a charge point and apartment owners allowed install the charge point because many management agencies will not allow this. This will only happen through governmental intervention and this is not going to happen with the current government.

tcpip1414

200Mile range and I would queue up to buy one..
It would be a Very, Very, Very rare occasion when I would do that in a day so that would be perfect and the the charger at home would be fine..
I cant believe with the infrastructure as poor as it is, they do not give the granny cable with the car like I have heard they do in the North.. Currently these cable are not 'Just in case' but for 'When it is certain to happen'

nokia69

the bolt and the next gen Leaf should be great cars but the model 3 is the car to watch

tcpip1414

The charge maps is another thing...
Broken down chargers are not updated.
I know the Newcastle West one in Limerick to be broken and is still showing as working on the maps. I suppose if the real situation were updated on the maps, then you quickly realize that the max range is only a few miles from home...

nokia69

nokia69 wrote: »

the bolt and the next gen Leaf should be great cars but the model 3 is the car to watch

The Model 3 will be well above the price of the Leaf/Bolt.

More like High Spec A4 or 3 series prices !

I'll take a 200 mile range bolt, you can be sure GM won't make a slow car.

tcpip1414

tcpip1414 wrote: »

The charge maps is another thing...
Broken down chargers are not updated.
I know the Newcastle West one in Limerick to be broken and is still showing as working on the maps. I suppose if the real situation were updated on the maps, then you quickly realize that the max range is only a few miles from home...

To be honest, you'll mainly use the fast chargers and the normal street chargers will only be used if you go way out of town and decide to plug in. If you have the 6.6 kw charger then you'll replace 50% in nearly 2 hrs, with the 3.3 Kw standard charger this would be Zoe makes best use of the normal non fast chargers. But seemingly there is an issue that's causing it to brake chargers, Seems only to be the Zoe according to the Contractor who came out to fix the fast charger one day I got stuck.

tcpip1414

tcpip1414 wrote: »

I suppose if the real situation were updated on the maps, then you quickly realize that the max range is only a few miles from home...

Ah no, not really, I'm doing about 85 miles per day with a 15 min fast charge top up, could get away with less.

I don't depend on the normal street chargers, more fast chargers are what's needed.

You could easily do 130-150 miles a day in a Leaf. If you're doing that mileage daily then you need a new job or move !

nokia69

Deleted User wrote: »

The Model 3 will be well above the price of the Leaf/Bolt.

More like High Spec A4 or 3 series prices !

I'll take a 200 mile range bolt, you can be sure GM won't make a slow car.

still early days but I think the model 3 will cost less than the bolt based on what GM and Tesla have said

the base model 3 will be close to 35K in the US, god knows what it will cost here

nokia69

nokia69 wrote: »

still early days but I think the model 3 will cost less than the bolt based on what GM and Tesla have said

the base model 3 will be close to 35K in the US, god knows what it will cost here

It will cost +23% and that's (after) the import duty and VRT are applied to make it cost as much as possible.

The Leaf is about 10 K cheaper in the US than here and they still think it's expensive !!!

+ the USD is a lot stronger now which will make the car more expensive again.

It will be priced about High spec A4 or 3 series.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

It will cost +23% and that's (after) the import duty and VRT are applied to make it cost as much as possible.

The Leaf is about 10 K cheaper in the US than here and they still think it's expensive !!!

+ the USD is a lot stronger now which will make the car more expensive again.

It will be priced about High spec A4 or 3 series.

I think you are about right with the price point. Although that should go down if they decide to open a production line in the EU (which I understand is a distinct possibility in the medium term).

bipedalhumanoid

What happened to this legislation that was "coming soon" in 2012 to make parking in electric spots illegal?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/electric-vehicles-to-get-free-parking-if-new-laws-are-put-in-motion-26848280.html

SpaceTime

I saw this in Cork the other day - an actual argument took place.

The guy who parked was saying "Ah sure nobody has electric cars anyway... it's a waste of a space!"

It's a bit pointless having the spaces marked at all if there's no enforcement.

The other solution might be a rising pole barrier that's activated by the charger?

There must be a simple, technical way of stoping parking at these with a barrier system as you've already got a high tech charger there.

bipedalhumanoid

Looks like it is illegal to park there. The smarter transport Bill was passed - and is thus now the smarter transport act - to make it possible for councils to set up bylaws making it illegal.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/6211/b6211d.pdf

bipedalhumanoid

I just contacted Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown council to complain about the lack of enforcement. I suggest that others here complain to their local councils and get something done about it. I want to see some petrol cars parked in electric car spaces with big shiny yellow clamps attached to their wheels.

Post Edit:

I was mistaken, it doesn't appear in the list of acts on the Oireachtas web site. It's 2015 and this 2011 bill has not been passed. So much money has been pissed away trying to encourage people to buy electric cars and they can't even enact a bill that would make it possible for eCar drivers to access the infrastructure. It is utterly pathetic.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=-1&StartDate=1+January+2011&CatID=87

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2011/6211/document1.htm

bipedalhumanoid

Ok, now I am really confused.

I just read this on Eoghan Murphy's web site.

"New regulations for car clubs and electric vehicles were finally signed by myself and Leo Varadkar in May, bringing my Smarter Transport Bill in to
law and completing five years of hard work. Phew!"

http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Sep-Newsletter-2014.pdf

This is in the September 2014 newsletter.

So according to that, it has been legal for county councils to create bylaws making it an offence for non-electric vehicles to park in electric car parking bays for about 12 months now.

Perhaps the hold up is just in the county councils passing bylaws?

Post Edit:

Here it is on the statute book:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0325.html

pwurple

I know a guy who got a ticket for parking in an EV space. In cork. So they are enforced here.

dulpit

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

I want to see some petrol cars parked in electric car spaces with big shiny yellow clamps attached to their wheels.

I know this is slightly unrelated, but if the car is blocking the space, surely clamping it doesn't make sense?

On topic - I can say that the electric parking spot in Cork always seems to be filled by an EV (a really nice Tesla S :cool:). How long does it take to charge a car? And is there a charge for this? Just wondering if the Tesla is effectively blocking the space for the whole day from others?

bipedalhumanoid

dulpit wrote: »

I know this is slightly unrelated, but if the car is blocking the space, surely clamping it doesn't make sense?

And nontheless I would be beaming with joy. ;-)

On topic - I can say that the electric parking spot in Cork always seems to be filled by an EV (a really nice Tesla S ). How long does it take to charge a car? And is there a charge for this? Just wondering if the Tesla is effectively blocking the space for the whole day from others?

A fast charging station typically takes 15-20 mins (30 mins from empty). The slow charging stations can take hours, but you'd wouldn't typically leave it there for a full charge, just a top up.

At the moment the electricity is free, but some county councils make you pay for parking while you are charging. I don't think Cork does. I've heard good things about Ennis too.

cros13

dulpit wrote: »

How long does it take to charge a car? And is there a charge for this? Just wondering if the Tesla is effectively blocking the space for the whole day from others?

Model S has a big battery to fill on a 22 kw it can be between 5 and 10 hours. 43kW Rapid charger to full can take over 2 hours.

On a 7kw it could be more than 14 hours. On a supercharger (which there are four planned this year but none open in Ireland yet) it can be 20-50 minutes.

dulpit

dulpit wrote: »

I know this is slightly unrelated, but if the car is blocking the space, surely clamping it doesn't make sense?

On topic - I can say that the electric parking spot in Cork always seems to be filled by an EV (a really nice Tesla S :cool:). How long does it take to charge a car? And is there a charge for this? Just wondering if the Tesla is effectively blocking the space for the whole day from others?

The early Model S had a 40 Kwh battery option, but not offered any more.

The 60 Kwh battery would take about 3.5 hrs to fully charge from our public street chargers (IF) and that's a big (IF) the person got the 20 Kw twin chargers fitted.

The 80 Kwh would take about 4.5 hrs to fully charge with the twin charger option.

Our AC public chargers are quiet powerful @ 20 Kw.

Even the 50 Kw DC (fast) chargers would take about 2 hrs to fully charge the Model S 85 kwh. ( the fast chargers are not meant to be used beyond 80% because it takes too long) it can take as longer to get from 80-100% in a leaf than 0-80%

It's not all about speed though, an hour on the 20 Kw public charger is enough for about 60-75 miles range.

The public chargers are not for personal use and I would imaging that the ESB can monitor those hogging charge points and notify them that this behaviour is not acceptable.

The ESB have also stated that no one should abandon their EV at fast chargers for an hour that fast charging is meant to be no more than 30 mins max.

Charging a Model S 85 Kwh at home would at 7 kw or 32 amps about 14 hrs but that will take you 280 odd miles !

Sabre Man

Deleted User wrote: »

The early Model S had a 40 Kwh battery option, but not offered any more.

The 60 Kwh battery would take about 3.5 hrs to fully charge from our public street chargers (IF) and that's a big (IF) the person got the 20 Kw twin chargers fitted.

The 80 Kwh would take about 4.5 hrs to fully charge with the twin charger option.

The 60 kWh battery was recently replaced by a 70 kWh battery.

cros13

Sabre Man wrote: »

The 60 kWh battery was recently replaced by a 70 kWh battery.

All five Model S registered in Ireland are 85kWh.

bipedalhumanoid

This idiot was parked in this space today and yesterday:



Post Edit:

And again today. Both cars in this picture just park here every day for the entire day. The council does not seem to be willing to do anything about it.

Sabre Man

Sabre Man wrote: »

The 60 kWh battery was recently replaced by a 70 kWh battery.

Yes, so you'll now have 40, 60, 70 and 85 kwh Model S's out there.

Lucky gits !!!