.223 for first time applicant

international shooter

Hi,
So I'm looking to get on the books and get a rifle licence. Now I already have a shotgun licence (for the last 5-6 years) and my father has a .22 and a .223 rifle licence and we both live in the same house. (Not sure if that makes much difference) my question for you is would I be able to get a licence for my fathers .223 when its my first rifle licence application.? I want it to shoot foxes. The local farmers are plagued by them and I'm also part of a gun club so there's no problem in getting permission to shoot. The reason for not applying for a licence for my fathers .22 is because 1). its not big enough to shoot foxes beyond 100 yards (my father regularly shoots foxes up to 300 yards with his .223 ) and 2). He wants to get rid of the .22. So what do you people think. Is it possible.?

aaakev

Shouldn't be a problem for you i know plenty of lads who have had a 223 as a first time rifle licence with less experience than you

Cass

I've known lads to get 308s as their first license. There is no legal limit on the size of the gun you want whether it's your first or not.

As you are a firearm onwer, with land, you are a prime candidate to get it. Especially if you go as a joint license holder with your Father. IOW you tick all the boxes.

fabwing

Hi,you should be fine getting your new license for your new 223 should take three or four weeks.

international shooter wrote: »

Hi,
So I'm looking to get on the books and get a rifle licence. Now I already have a shotgun licence (for the last 5-6 years) and my father has a .22 and a .223 rifle licence and we both live in the same house. (Not sure if that makes much difference) my question for you is would I be able to get a licence for my fathers .223 when its my first rifle licence application.? I want it to shoot foxes. The local farmers are plagued by them and I'm also part of a gun club so there's no problem in getting permission to shoot. The reason for not applying for a licence for my fathers .22 is because 1). its not big enough to shoot foxes beyond 100 yards (my father regularly shoots foxes up to 300 yards with his .223 ) and 2). He wants to get rid of the .22. So what do you people think. Is it possible.?

international shooter

Cass wrote: »

I've known lads to get 308s as their first license. There is no legal limit on the size of the gun you want whether it's your first or not.

As you are a firearm onwer, with land, you are a prime candidate to get it. Especially if you go as a joint license holder with your Father. IOW you tick all the boxes.

Thanks for the reply. Funny you should say that because, that's what I thought, but I went into the guards barracks today to ask (not apply) about getting a 300 win mag and they basically said that the chances of getting it would be fairly low because its my first rifle application.?? p.s I want the 300 win mag so I can shoot in Africa.

aaakev

fabwing wrote: »

Hi,you should be fine getting your new license for your new 223 should take three or four weeks.

You must be his super?

Cass

international shooter wrote: »

......... but I went into the guards barracks today to ask (not apply) about getting a 300 win mag and they basically said that the chances of getting it would be fairly low because its my first rifle application.??.....

The law says:

• No limit on the amount of guns
• No limit on the frequency you apply for them
• No limit on what you can or cannot have as first, second, etc. gun

The onus is on you to prove that you have good reason for the gun. So if you want just because you want one then that will not be seen as a good reason. The FO is doing one of two things:

1. Acting as a buffer for the Super to dissuade people from applying for something they either do not think is right or they would rather not have to process.
2. Is one of the "old School" that would not like to see us with a catapult.

I had something similar years ago, and i thanked the guy at the desk for his input then politely asked him to do his duty and send my application on up for a decision by the Super. Got the license 3 weeks later. Know what little rights you have. The right to apply (assuming you are not disentitled) is one of them. Be polite, and make sure every I is dotted and T crossed. Give plenty of good reason and as much supporting documentation you can.

Lastly, GET A RECEIPT when yopu hand in the license. Cannot over emphasise the importance of this. Go in with one written out yourself if necessary.

Zxthinger

Wouldn't it be easy if the FAC1 forms had an attached receipt page that was simply detached at the desk etc etc.

international shooter

Cass wrote: »

The law says:

• No limit on the amount of guns
• No limit on the frequency you apply for them
• No limit on what you can or cannot have as first, second, etc. gun

The onus is on you to prove that you have good reason for the gun. So if you want just because you want one then that will not be seen as a good reason. The FO is doing one of two things:

1. Acting as a buffer for the Super to dissuade people from applying for something they either do not think is right or they would rather not have to process.
2. Is one of the "old School" that would not like to see us with a catapult.

I had something similar years ago, and i thanked the guy at the desk for his input then politely asked him to do his duty and send my application on up for a decision by the Super. Got the license 3 weeks later. Know what little rights you have. The right to apply (assuming you are not disentitled) is one of them. Be polite, and make sure every I is dotted and T crossed. Give plenty of good reason and as much supporting documentation you can.

Lastly, GET A RECEIPT when yopu hand in the license. Cannot over emphasise the importance of this. Go in with one written out yourself if necessary.

Cass, appreciate the reply. The FO is actually bang on. He is someone you can talk to and he has some brothers into shooting, so he knows the crack. He didn't try to dissuade me from applying, he directly said "you can still apply for the 300" but he then said that its of his opinion that the super might want me to start out with a small rimfire (i.e .22) then after a while move up. That's why I kind of started this thread I thought that the .22 was a bit small so asked you guys about the .223, but as you pointed out there is no legislative restriction to applying for a caliber as a first time applicant. I'm really considering just going straight in and applying for the 300 win mag now. In terms of reasons to needing one, well its a recommended caliber for game shooting in Africa plus I can get permission from lots of farmers I know in Wicklow to shoot red deer on their land. Can't really get much better than that can you.? I've 2 more questions for my a Cass.
1. How much of this is on the supers judgement/opinion.? I mean if I give him and prove good reason to require this caliber and all the background checks are clear (which they will be) will he be objective and say "this guy ticks all the boxes I'll approve him" or will it be more like "this guy is a bit young (I'm 22) and he doesn't even have a smaller caliber to his name".
2. What did you mean when you said get a receipt when you hand in the licence.??
p.s sorry for the long post

Cass

international shooter wrote: »

......... so he knows the crack.

I'm sure he is a nice bloke, but this:

international shooter wrote:

......... he then said that its of his opinion that the super might want me to start out with a small rimfire (i.e .22) then after a while move up.

and this:

international shooter wrote: »

........... they basically said that the chances of getting it would be fairly low because its my first rifle application.??

........ show that he in fact doesn't know the crack. If you were to be refused based on age then not only is it illegal from a firearms leegislative point of view but i'm sure there might be hints of agism there too. Not to mention i would love to see a Super give you a written refusal that says "Too Young". He might as well write you out the license on his way to the court to defend his decision. That is how weak it would be.

And while he may not have came right out and said it, the fact that he said you are too young/the Super might not give it because of your age, and the fact you started this thread asking shows that his comments have acttually set doubt in your mind. Anyone else might have just taken his word ffor it and not applied at all. For the .300 or the .223.

I'm really considering just going straight in and applying for the 300 win mag now. In terms of reasons to needing one, well its a recommended caliber for game shooting in Africa plus I can get permission from lots of farmers I know in Wicklow to shoot red deer on their land. Can't really get much better than that can you.?

I'd go for the deer stlaking first (you need deer license, etc before you apply) as the Africa thing on it's own might see you end up with a condition that the gun can only be used on Safari, and not to be shot in the state. I sh*t you not. I've seen it happen.

1. How much of this is on the supers judgement/opinion.? I mean if I give him and prove good reason to require this caliber and all the background checks are clear (which they will be) will he be objective and say "this guy ticks all the boxes I'll approve him" or will it be more like "this guy is a bit young (I'm 22) and he doesn't even have a smaller caliber to his name".

He cannot refuse you because of your age. Plain and simple. If you can get a firearms license at 14, a full one on your own at 16 then 22 is not even close to being too young.

The decision will ultimately rest with the Super, but you have avenues open to you if it goes pear shaped. just supply the necessary info, good reason, and you're good to go.

2. What did you mean when you said get a receipt when you hand in the licence.??

An application is meant to be processed within 3 months of being submitted. the problem arises from this.

You hand an application in on say January 1st. As far as you are concerned you'll have your decision by March 31st. 3 months. The FO only processes your application on February 24th. An Gardaí now count this as the time the 3 months begins.

When you apply your are meant to receive a receipt via the post (as i'm sure you got for the shotgun) that says your application has been received and a decission will be given in 3 months. This is only sent when your details are put onto PULSE. Your details are only put onto PULSE when a decision has been made. It's why some get the receipt just days before the license, the same day as the license or even after the license. At which point it's redundant.

If your application has been in since January 1st you have nothing, bar your word, that it's been in that long. A written receipt from the FO or Garda that took your application gives you written proof that you handed it in on such a day/date/time. Means when you ring on March 31st (assuming you have not gotten your license) and you're told that it'sonly on PULSE a couple of weeks you can provide the receipt to show it's been in for the 3 months.

This is a ncommon issue with some people waiting upwards of a year or more. It's also the reason An Gardaí were able to claim that only a small number of licenses went beyond the 3 month processing time framee.Because they only classed the 3 months as having started from the time it was first entered onto PULSE, not when it was actually handed in.

international shooter

Cass wrote: »

I'm sure he is a nice bloke, but this:
and this:

........ show that he in fact doesn't know the crack. If you were to be refused based on age then not only is it illegal from a firearms leegislative point of view but i'm sure there might be hints of agism there too. Not to mention i would love to see a Super give you a written refusal that says "Too Young". He might as well write you out the license on his way to the court to defend his decision. That is how weak it would be.

And while he may not have came right out and said it, the fact that he said you are too young/the Super might not give it because of your age, and the fact you started this thread asking shows that his comments have acttually set doubt in your mind. Anyone else might have just taken his word ffor it and not applied at all. For the .300 or the .223.
I'd go for the deer stlaking first (you need deer license, etc before you apply) as the Africa thing on it's own might see you end up with a condition that the gun can only be used on Safari, and not to be shot in the state. I sh*t you not. I've seen it happen.
He cannot refuse you because of your age. Plain and simple. If you can get a firearms license at 14, a full one on your own at 16 then 22 is not even close to being too young.

The decision will ultimately rest with the Super, but you have avenues open to you if it goes pear shaped. just supply the necessary info, good reason, and you're good to go.
An application is meant to be processed within 3 months of being submitted. the problem arises from this.

You hand an application in on say January 1st. As far as you are concerned you'll have your decision by March 31st. 3 months. The FO only processes your application on February 24th. An Gardaí now count this as the time the 3 months begins.

When you apply your are meant to receive a receipt via the post (as i'm sure you got for the shotgun) that says your application has been received and a decission will be given in 3 months. This is only sent when your details are put onto PULSE. Your details are only put onto PULSE when a decision has been made. It's why some get the receipt just days before the license, the same day as the license or even after the license. At which point it's redundant.

If your application has been in since January 1st you have nothing, bar your word, that it's been in that long. A written receipt from the FO or Garda that took your application gives you written proof that you handed it in on such a day/date/time. Means when you ring on March 31st (assuming you have not gotten your license) and you're told that it'sonly on PULSE a couple of weeks you can provide the receipt to show it's been in for the 3 months.

This is a ncommon issue with some people waiting upwards of a year or more. It's also the reason An Gardaí were able to claim that only a small number of licenses went beyond the 3 month processing time framee.Because they only classed the 3 months as having started from the time it was first entered onto PULSE, not when it was actually handed in.

Cool Cass. Thanks for the help. I'll get the ball rolling tomorrow I think. I'll come back to you for more advice if I'm stuck...... if that's OK with you.??

Cass

Feel free. The forum has plenty of lads and ladies that are more than capablee of helping you out. We've all been through it at one stage or another.

Kramer

You don't need a 300 WinMag for African game. A .270/.308 or even better, 30-06 would be an ideal calibre for Africa (what I used) & more suitable for native deer stalking here too.
I've known experienced shooters abandon the 300 WinMag due to the recoil & muzzle blast, especially in a light short(ish) barrelled stalking rifle.

Cheaper to feed too & more readily available in Ireland as well as easier to sell on later, if you're still intent on a .300.

If you're going after dangerous game in Africa, big five etc., a .300 isn't suitable either - you'd require a .375 H&H or similar but you would be insane trying that without any hunting/rifle experience.

Best of luck either way :cool:.

international shooter

Kramer wrote: »

You don't need a 300 WinMag for African game. A .270/.308 or even better, 30-06 would be an ideal calibre for Africa (what I used) & more suitable for native deer stalking here too.
I've known experienced shooters abandon the 300 WinMag due to the recoil & muzzle blast, especially in a light short(ish) barrelled stalking rifle.

Cheaper to feed too & more readily available in Ireland as well as easier to sell on later, if you're still intent on a .300.

If you're going after dangerous game in Africa, big five etc., a .300 isn't suitable either - you'd require a .375 H&H or similar but you would be insane trying that without any hunting/rifle experience.

Best of luck either way :cool:.

Thanks for the input. However I've shot a few different 300's and they're not as bad as everyone makes out. I don't know what everyone is winging about. I'm actually going to get a heavy barrel, heavy for hunting not for target shooting, so should be fine. In terms of price of ammo it doesn't really bother me to be honest. I'm aware of the price and its fine. I've spoke to a few guys that organise safari trips at the show in Germany and they all said the 300 is a great calibre and that they would reccommend it. I definitely won't be shooting the big five because I just don't agree with shooting animals that are endangered such as lions. Imagine a world without them. I wouldn't like to see it.

Kramer

Jayzesake

international shooter wrote: »

I definitely won't be shooting the big five because I just don't agree with shooting animals that are endangered such as lions. Imagine a world without them. I wouldn't like to see it.

Fair play.

aaakev

international shooter wrote: »

I definitely won't be shooting the big five because I just don't agree with shooting animals that are endangered such as lions. Imagine a world without them. I wouldn't like to see it.

shooting the big 5 nowadays is not like ot used to be, the animals you shoot are bread for it in game reserves so your not taking away from the true wild population. Alot of the money game reserves make is also put into conservation so do your homework if you fancy shooting them and go with a reputable outfitters and your conscience will be clear!

international shooter

aaakev wrote: »

shooting the big 5 nowadays is not like ot used to be, the animals you shoot are bread for it in game reserves so your not taking away from the true wild population. Alot of the money game reserves make is also put into conservation so do your homework if you fancy shooting them and go with a reputable outfitters and your conscience will be clear!

Respect what your saying but its just not for me. Its just a pity the world has so many animals endangered now and someone like me and others here I'm sure who dont even shoot them gets blamed for it anyway. 😀