Irish Rail seat reservations - what's the point?!

I don't get the train all that regularly, but the last few times that I have, I reserved a seat online and every time, there has been an issue on board.

Saturday just gone, I boarded the 11:05 Dublin Connolly to Sligo train in Connolly station at 10:45. Rather than look for my seat number, I looked for the name, and there were no names on any seats. I walked back down the carriage looking for my seat and when I got there, there was someone already in it. However, my name was not above the seat. I sat in the seat adjacent which meant facing in the opposite direction. A minute later, my name appeared over my seat and when the woman noticed, she went to move, I told her not to worry that I had a seat so she could stay there.

The guy sitting facing me then checked his seat and it was reserved. He said that the names had only just come up and were not in place when he got on the train.

This morning I'm doing the return journey, 9am from Sligo. I found my seat this time by number, not by looking for my name is shiny lights as it was not there! The names appeared over the seats when we were already on the move.

What is the point of offering this service, if they don't actually implement it effectively?

Have I just been very unlucky or is this a regular occurrence?

cython

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get the train all that regularly, but the last few times that I have, I reserved a seat online and every time, there has been an issue on board.

Saturday just gone, I boarded the 11:05 Dublin Connolly to Sligo train in Connolly station at 10:45. Rather than look for my seat number, I looked for the name, and there were no names on any seats. I walked back down the carriage looking for my seat and when I got there, there was someone already in it. However, my name was not above the seat. I sat in the seat adjacent which meant facing in the opposite direction. A minute later, my name appeared over my seat and when the woman noticed, she went to move, I told her not to worry that I had a seat so she could stay there.

The guy sitting facing me then checked his seat and it was reserved. He said that the names had only just come up and were not in place when he got on the train.

This morning I'm doing the return journey, 9am from Sligo. I found my seat this time by number, not by looking for my name is shiny lights as it was not there! The names appeared over the seats when we were already on the move.

What is the point of offering this service, if they don't actually implement it effectively?

Have I just been very unlucky or is this a regular occurrence?

in the last year, I've only booked a seat on 2 Irish Rail services (Dublin to Enniscorthy on a Tuesday, and returning on the Thursday), and had a 50% success rate with reservations displaying - on the journey from Dublin, they were displayed from Connolly when the train pulled up, but on the return journey they were never displayed, so I just took whatever seat I could find, as even the carriages weren't particularly clearly indicated.

There have been plenty of threads outlining shortcomings with the system on here in the past though.

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

Have I just been very unlucky or is this a regular occurrence?

It's a regular occurrence, there's been a few fairly long threads about various aspects of it (most recently this one).

In my own experience, seats were actually reserved much less than half the time. (In fairnes, that was a couple of years ago, before I just gave up on Irish Rail. Things *may* have improved since)

Heisenberg1

OP if you had your seat number before you boarded I don't see the problem just find your seat and sit I wouldn't let the digital display stop you sitting in a seat you have paid for after all the seats are numbered and you have a reservation for that seat.

Dravokivich

I'd just go to my seat printed on the ticket. The issue I have with reservations, is sometimes it's hard to identify the correct carriage and quite often, they aren't the same as shown when you are booking. Particularly on the Sligo line. It's hard to find room for a buggy at times.

Granted I know, the accessibility spots are generally for wheelchairs. People who need'em will have the same complaint to make when they aren't there at all. Which I've seen once before in June.

ClonNGB

I was on a Cork Dublin train last week and the reservations once again were not working. A lot of passengers got angry with people who were sitting in 'their' seats and several it was close to getting resolved by fisticuffs

The IR gob****e turned up and turfed out the innocent passengers who sat in seats with no reservations showing. No apology given.

It got so bad that they finally announced in Limerick Junction that the reservation system was borken and there was a sit anywhere policy in force.

Fiasco of a company.

Rakish Paddy

I have on occasion reserved a seat going from Dublin on trains heading to Galway, Westport or Sligo and have generally not had an issue - my name was displayed above the seat.

The one time I did have an issue was when I was travelling from Ballina to Dublin and reserved my seat. On that journey I had to take a crappy commuter-type train from Ballina, and change on to the inter-city train coming from Westport at Manulla Junction. This was a Sunday afternoon during college term so the Westport-Dublin train was fairly full. I was glad I had the foresight to reserve my seat.

However when I got to my seat, the set of four seats was occupied by four lads who I assume were students, and who had their stuff spread all over the table and the rack overhead. I pointed to the seat I had reserved and said "Sorry - I reserved that seat - that's my name there above it". The guy just looked blankly at me without saying anything. I pointed again to my name, showed my ticket with the reservation, and again he just looked but didn't respond. I asked him to vacate the seat that I had reserved, and he said he wouldn't move unless I gave him €80. Now, I was extremely annoyed and sorely tempted to resort to physically attempting to remove the guy from the seat, but I thought better of it, since there were four of them and one of me, and didn't want to either end up getting a kicking myself or winding up with an assault charge against me. I ended up sitting in a seat nearby that had also been reserved but was not occupied, with the intention to get up if the rightful occupant got on (I actually made it all the way to Dublin without that happening).

My issue is this: There was no security of any sort on the train and no visible staffing - I didn't even see a ticket inspector for the whole journey. What was the "proper" course of action to take in this case? If there is no proper means to have such an offender removed from the seat / train, then it makes a mockery of having a reservation system at all.

coylemj

Part of the problem is that you cannot purchase a seat online and NOT reserve a seat. People like me will sit anywhere just for a quiet life, I really can't imagine turfing an innocent passenger out of a seat just because IR insist that I sit there. If I book the train in advance, it's so that I can avoid going to the ticket desk, I don't want to reserve a seat so why force me to take one?

The problem then becomes an issue that if a large number of seats are reserved, you simply have to take the seat assigned to you because otherwise you'd be sitting in someone else's seat. The system that I'd prefer is that you get a choice as to whether you want a seat reserved or not, I suspect that a lot of people would decline a seat reservation and that would sort the problem out.

Rakish Paddy

coylemj wrote: »

I really can't imagine turfing an innocent passenger out of a seat just because IR insist that I sit there.

You have an innocent passenger sitting there if the names weren't displayed above the seats, as seems to happen sometimes based on the posts above. If however the passenger names are displayed and someone without a reservation chooses to sit there anyway (ingoring the 'please do not sit in pre-booked seats' announcement), they are no longer innocent ;-)

paddyland

Most people's simple answer to this? Forget the train. Drive.

This suits everyone in the long run.

It suits me, because I get there quicker, cheaper, in my own time, in my own company, with more comfort, and without all the hassle.

It certainly suits IR, who would rather run a railway without any passengers at all.

It suits the government, because they earn more tax revenue if I drive.

It suits everyone else on the train, because it's one less person taking up their space.

Bottom line?

This is Ireland. Nobody gives a damn.

foggy_lad

Deleted User wrote: »

Have I just been very unlucky or is this a regular occurrence?

It is a regular occurrence and has been for several years but IE have been denying any issues or problems with their reservations system for just as long so don't expect any help from that quarter.

Hilly Bill

I won't comment here, check out the previous threads for my response :-)

highlydebased

I wish reservations were optional, a la UK.

Hilly Bill

highlydebased wrote: »

I wish reservations were optional, a la UK.

It is. You have the option to not reserve a seat .

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

yabadabado

IR seat reservations are a complete joke.I would love to meet the complete simpleton who set it up,it should be fairly straightforward to implement properly but there are regular problems with it.

Vic_08

highlydebased wrote: »

I wish reservations were optional, a la UK.

They are only optional on walk-up tickets, the cheaper Advance fares all come with a compulsory reservation and are invalid for travel without one. Operators which do not allow seat reservations but do offer Advance fares issue blank reservations tying the ticket to a specific train but not a seat.


The standard procedure across UK operators is that if seat reservations are not shown either on electronic screens or cards on seat backs then reservations will not be honored and that train is reservation free, the Guard will usually make announcements to inform all passengers of this.

Anyone with a reservation that is unable to get a seat (any seat, not the specific one they had booked) can apply for compensation.

The one exception is Arriva CrossCountry who often try to enfore reservations even when the electronic displays are not working (just like Irish Rail the electronic displays seem to break more regularly, the paper dockets are very rarely absent). The working theory is that because of the level of overcrowding on their trains the refund bill was high so management are pressuring guards to move unreserved passengers in favour of reserved ones so they can't claim compensation. It is predictably causing aggro.

That same company also have come up with a "10 minute reservation" scheme where certain seats will display "Seat available but may be reserved later" or something similar. Anyone can then use an app to reserve one of these seats either just before they board or while they are on board from a stop a few minutes down the line.

It is rather hit and miss but if working it is possible to board a crowded train, stand by a seat, book it for the next station and when the train pulls in tap the person on the shoulder and tell them to get out of your seat. Predictably another source of aggro on board.

Heisenberg1

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

OP if you had your seat number before you boarded I don't see the problem just find your seat and sit I wouldn't let the digital display stop you sitting in a seat you have paid for after all the seats are numbered and you have a reservation for that seat.

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'd just go to my seat printed on the ticket. The issue I have with reservations,

That's all fine and dandy, the issue arises when there is a person already in the seat because your name/number is not displayed.

They should be displayed before the train begins to board so that people who haven't reserved don't end up booted out of their seats later on.

A time previous to this I had to ask a guy to move, the train was packed, he moved without question and I got my seat but he likely ended up with none despite the fact he may well have sat in a seat that looked like it was not reserved ten minutes prior.

paddyland wrote: »

Most people's simple answer to this? Forget the train. Drive.

I agree completely. I normally do. On this occasion I was out the Friday night and knew it would be a late one so opted to do the responsible thing and get the train.

helimachoptor

I've got the train a few times down to the in laws (mayo)
Generally im there in a fair bit of time so dont have an issue with people in my seat.

However as i get on at manulla and the train leaves from Wesport i always have an issue.. people have point blank refused to move "Well im sitting here" is the standard reply, i'd love to turf them out but these days that assault

IF you wanted a bloody seat why didnt you book one!

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is the point of offering this service, if they don't actually implement it effectively?

Because it ticks a box somewhere, and they can use it when advertising their services.

moleyv

The biggest joke for reservations is the Dublin to Belfast enterprise service.

Only people buying their ticket through IR can reserve a seat, and for only one carriage.

There are no screens above seats, a 'ticket' has to be manually printed out by staff and manually placed above the seat.

The northern staff rarely do this, and on the few occasions they have, they placed them in the wrong slits which causes chaos.

Also when some people (usually from the north) who have purchased through TransLink are asked to move as the seat is booked, they take huge offence as they don't have the option to book a seat, and usually the tickets haven't been put in place.

peppa 1986

I go to the station early and purchase my ticket unreserved. I board the train and sit in a seat without a name above it. Just as the train is about to depart a person arrives to my seat and tells me he has reserved the seat that I am sitting in. As the train is full there are no more seats available. Do I get up and give him the seat thereby standing for the full journey or stay where I am. This has happened to me twice......

moleyv

moleyv wrote:

The northern staff rarely do this, and on the few occasions they have, they placed them in the wrong slits which causes chaos.

I should add, this is my experience.

Rakish Paddy

helimachoptor wrote: »

I've got the train a few times down to the in laws (mayo)
Generally im there in a fair bit of time so dont have an issue with people in my seat.

However as i get on at manulla and the train leaves from Wesport i always have an issue.. people have point blank refused to move "Well im sitting here" is the standard reply, i'd love to turf them out but these days that assault !

This is exactly the issue I had, and I have no idea what the 'right' way is to deal with it, considering the absence of staff on the trains.

helimachoptor

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

This is exactly the issue I had, and I have no idea what the 'right' way is to deal with it, considering the absence of staff on the trains.

yeah thats the biggest issue, IR sell this booking service (you can be sure its factored into the price) however they dont seem to facilitate it on the train.

Michael D Not Higgins

Best use of the seat reservations I ever saw on Irish Rail.

Tow

peppa 1986 wrote: »

I go to the station early and purchase my ticket unreserved. I board the train and sit in a seat without a name above it. Just as the train is about to depart a person arrives to my seat and tells me he has reserved the seat that I am sitting in. As the train is full there are no more seats available. Do I get up and give him the seat thereby standing for the full journey or stay where I am. This has happened to me twice......

This has happened to me, except we were 3 adults with 5 young (aged 3 to 8) children.

Arrived early, got two tables beside each other, then got booted out when the signs got switched on a couple of minutes before the train departed. At this stage there were only a few seats left and we ended up spread throughout the carriage. If the signs were switched on before the train started boarding we would have been able to sit together, without any hassle.

But I suppose this would required the drivers to change their work practices and receive extra compensation...

Wise Old Elf

The Journal are doing an interview with Iarnród Eireann and they claim they're going to fix this problem...

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-seat-booking-system-1998995-Mar2015/

Rakish Paddy

Wise Old Elf wrote: »

The Journal are doing an interview with Iarnród Eireann and they claim they're going to fix this problem...

That's all well and good and to be welcomed and should cut down on some of the hassle, but doesn't address the problem of removing people who sit in another person's seat (knowingly or otherwise) and refuse to move. I think trains need to be staffed with security to resolve these disputes - any time I have seen this situation, the person refusing to move was a scobe who was usually drinking and who most ordinary people who not be keen to tackle!

Am I talking nonsense here, or would it not make sense to have a seat number on ALL tickets sold, and if all the seats are sold then offer a number of half-price (or less) standing tickets?

seventeen sheep

Just happened to see the attached on the Irish Rail Twitter page ... Apparently you're entitled to a refund if you don't get the seat you booked or a similar one ... interesting to know for future reference!

MOH

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Am I talking nonsense here, or would it not make sense to have a seat number on ALL tickets sold, and if all the seats are sold then offer a number of half-price (or less) standing tickets?

Would make perfect sense, but wouldn't hold my breath waiting for IE to make sense

seventeen sheep wrote: »

Just happened to see the attached on the Irish Rail Twitter page ... Apparently you're entitled to a refund if you don't get the seat you booked or a similar one ... interesting to know for future reference!

Yep, it's part of the T+Cs for online bookings. Which is why imo it makes sense for the person already in the seat not to move if IE didn't bother reserving it, since at least the person with the reservation that wasn't honoured can get a refund. Whereas if the person who sat in an unresreved seat then has to stand after the train fills up, they get nothing.

Or, you know, IE could just stop trotting out "it's an IT issue" excuses and actually get their reservation system working, like most other countries managed to years ago.

foggy_lad

Wise Old Elf wrote: »

The Journal are doing an interview with Iarnród Eireann and they claim they're going to fix this problem...

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-seat-booking-system-1998995-Mar2015/

They have had several years to "fix" this problem but have failed to do anything at all about it except make the situation worse by changing the sets around so that now the train you travel on could have any number of carriages from 3-9 and the booking system will usually be oblivious to the size of the train.

seventeen sheep wrote: »

Just happened to see the attached on the Irish Rail Twitter page ... Apparently you're entitled to a refund if you don't get the seat you booked or a similar one ... interesting to know for future reference!

Ah yes but Irish Rail will never take your word that there was not ONE single seat on board that you could have used! and it is just about impossible to prove as most trains are unstaffed!

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is a regular occurrence and has been for several years but IE have been denying any issues or problems with their reservations system for just as long so don't expect any help from that quarter.

irish rail deny any issues. at least the others realise there are problems

end of the road

Tow wrote: »

This has happened to me, except we were 3 adults with 5 young (aged 3 to 8) children.

Arrived early, got two tables beside each other, then got booted out when the signs got switched on a couple of minutes before the train departed. At this stage there were only a few seats left and we ended up spread throughout the carriage. If the signs were switched on before the train started boarding we would have been able to sit together, without any hassle.

But I suppose this would required the drivers to change their work practices and receive extra compensation...

no it wouldn't.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

irish rail deny any issues. at least the others realise there are problems

Where and when have they denied that there are any issues?

end of the road

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Where and when have they denied that there are any issues?

they bury their heads in the sand. irish rail management that is . even the staff will admit there are plenty of issues.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

they bury their heads in the sand. irish rail management that is . even the staff will admit there are plenty of issues.

You haven't answered the question . Where and when have they denied that there aren't any issues?

may06

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You haven't answered the question . Where and when have they denied that there aren't any issues?

Side stepping the reality there...
they just dont deal with the issues thats the issue...and thats indefensible.

Grandeeod

I am literally curious about this, so here goes. Is the booking issue down to some union issue? Based on what is being related here, I cannot understand why a booking system is not being switched on BEFORE passengers board. Sounds like a work issue for driver only trains. Please correct me if I'm wrong with some evidence.

foggy_lad

Grandeeod wrote: »

I am literally curious about this, so here goes. Is the booking issue down to some union issue? Based on what is being related here, I cannot understand why a booking system is not being switched on BEFORE passengers board. Sounds like a work issue for driver only trains. Please correct me if I'm wrong with some evidence.

From what has recently been said by Irish rail and also posted on boards it was down to communication issues with the trains in the stations and the reservations not being transmitted to the trains over the stations private WiFi networks.

It has taken several years for someone to suggest using a sim card and using mobile broadband instead of relying on the unreliable WiFi for something that really should be better managed.

Drivers have no input afaik into the reservations being transmitted to the train apart from when they enter the cab and turn on the communication equipment for the journey. I would imagine they would do this normally and that when WiFi is working the reservations transmit to the train without incident.

I personally suspect that there are other issues with the system apart from transmitting the data between station and train set as dodgy/faulty WiFi seems like such a simple issue that it should have been resolved years ago.

number10a

Systems like this really only work on an all-or-nothing basis. Imagine if Ryanair (when they had free-for-all seating) allowed you to pay extra to book a seat. By default most passengers would have no assigned seating, but they wouldn't know which seats had been reserved. Boarding the plane would have been an absolute nightmare! So instead they switched to giving everyone an assigned seat.

Same on the trains - as is the case in most countries across Europe now. Every passenger should be given a reserved seat on their ticked, whether booked in advance or ten minutes before departure. That way, everyone is in the same boat, everyone gets it, and everyone knows what they need to do. That, or abandon seat reservations altogether. Two different systems, side by side, has never worked.

number10a

number10a wrote: »

Systems like this really only work on an all-or-nothing basis. Imagine if Ryanair (when they had free-for-all seating) allowed you to pay extra to book a seat. By default most passengers would have no assigned seating, but they wouldn't know which seats had been reserved. Boarding the plane would have been an absolute nightmare! So instead they switched to giving everyone an assigned seat.

They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.

rubberdiddies

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.

Yep Ryanair did this for years and it worked very well. People generally dont behave badly on airlines because for one an airline won't tolerate it, will throw you off and you'll never be allowed fly with them again

No such restrictions on a train it seems

malkmoose

number10a wrote: »

Same on the trains - as is the case in most countries across Europe now. Every passenger should be given a reserved seat on their ticked, whether booked in advance or ten minutes before departure. That way, everyone is in the same boat, everyone gets it, and everyone knows what they need to do. That, or abandon seat reservations altogether. Two different systems, side by side, has never worked.

I can only speak for France and Finland but both these countries have a mix of reserved and unreserved seats on trains. It works because seats are marked reserved before anyone boards the train, there are staff on the train in the unlikely event of someone refusing to move. Tickets are more expensive as a result but I love taking the train.

Grandeeod

Thanks for clearing up how it works Foggy.

foggy_lad

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Yep Ryanair did this for years and it worked very well. People generally dont behave badly on airlines because for one an airline won't tolerate it, will throw you off and you'll never be allowed fly with them again

No such restrictions on a train it seems

No such staff on a train to deal with any such issues arising.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

From what has recently been said by Irish rail and also posted on boards it was down to communication issues with the trains in the stations and the reservations not being transmitted to the trains over the stations private WiFi networks.

It has taken several years for someone to suggest using a sim card and using mobile broadband instead of relying on the unreliable WiFi for something that really should be better managed.

Drivers have no input afaik into the reservations being transmitted to the train apart from when they enter the cab and turn on the communication equipment for the journey. I would imagine they would do this normally and that when WiFi is working the reservations transmit to the train without incident.

I personally suspect that there are other issues with the system apart from transmitting the data between station and train set as dodgy/faulty WiFi seems like such a simple issue that it should have been resolved years ago.

The names should come up when the driver enters the train id.

5rtytry56

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.

Done for me on the Westport train to Dublin about 2 years ago.

Hilly Bill

may06 wrote: »

Side stepping the reality there...
they just dont deal with the issues thats the issue...and thats indefensible.

No side stepping just asking when and where have they denied that there is an issue.

goingnowhere

This is more rubbish really

There are already 3 ways to get reservations implemented and Irish Rail can't consistently make those work (WIFI, sdcard, paper). The problem is not the technology its people.

Far too often the reservations only appear after everyone has boarded, that's not technical that's staff not setting up the system. Missing coaches and seats, that's bad planning and not technical

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The names should come up when the driver enters the train id.

Only if that information has been transferred via station WiFi to the train from the station office or Irish Rail data centre. Names can only appear if they exist on the train. it's pretty basic stuff yet beyond the capability of Irish Rail.