Rent a room his girlfriend moved in

robert2000

I have to have a chat with the guy I have rented the spare room to as he has moved in his girlfriend :mad: and although I very much need his rent and don't want to have to go through the process of finding someone again.......
I just need an idea of how much would a fair increase of rent be for the remainder of her stay?

punisher5112

robert2000 wrote: »

I have to have a chat with the guy I have rented the spare room to as he has moved in his girlfriend :mad: and although I very much need his rent and don't want to have to go through the process of finding someone again.......
I just need an idea of how much would a fair increase of rent be for the remainder of her stay?

if there are 2 of them and 1 of you 33⅓ each ;-)

guttenberg

punisher5112 wrote: »

if there are 2 of them and 1 of you 33⅓ each ;-)

For bills yes, but not for rent aswell surely?

punisher5112

guttenberg wrote: »

For bills yes, but not for rent aswell surely?

well if she is living there I would be saying they can put a bit extra.

Its not going to end well living with a couple

handlemaster

up the rent by a half at least. you don't need the hassle. He has a cheek...

robert2000

I just charge him a flat €400 a month no bills!
they are nice enough people and stay in the room most of the time but I was not asked and while it is not a permanent arraignment she shows no sign of going any time soon!

robert2000

So is an extra €200 a reasonable amount to ask for?

Kristopherus

Yes, that amount ,or the door. Your choice.

TheBody

Does she use any of the house facilities or just spend the nights there?

robert2000

Yes cooks showers laundry all that!

TheBody

robert2000 wrote: »

Yes cooks showers laundry all that!

Wow! That is cheeky. At least €200 more then.

Greenmachine

Don't let them away with it. He is taking the proverbial p***

whupdedo

What part of the country are you in, would you find it hard to get someone else to rent it ??

mikemac1

He's paying 400 including bills.

600 seems ok to me, feel free to ask for 650

The Diabolical Monocle

I'd go with 500 and 66.66% of bills.

Any feedback tell him you rented the room to HIM. not him +1.

Bills is most concerning imho - you're presently paying for her to cook/wash/watch tv.

i.e giving a stranger free money.

robert2000

whupdedo wrote: »

What part of the country are you in, would you find it hard to get someone else to rent it ??

Tallaght in Dublin, I could get some one else in but its a pain doing all the interviews and stuff ....... Yes i might not have picked the best person but some of the people who came :eek:

The_Morrigan

Robert2000 are you an tenant or an owner here in this situation?

robert2000

the apartment is mine!

The_Morrigan

robert2000 wrote: »

the apartment is mine!

If it was me I'd be telling them to get out. That is absolutely ridiculous behaviour out of the two of them.

Do you know what the market rent in the area is by chance?
If it was me (and I'm an owner occupier too) I'd be charging the market rent for the room + 20/25% and then divvie the bills up by 3.

Please make sure you keep all bills and amounts paid for them from these two - your tax return has to include the rent + bills under the rent a room scheme.

cerastes

robert2000 wrote: »

So is an extra €200 a reasonable amount to ask for?

200 easily and split the bills 3 ways without a doubt, did you or he ever say anything about this? How long have you left it, I'd have said it after she stayed over after 2 days. Say it now, looks like bad news.
Absolutely 200 plus share bills, its a right cheek to do without asking.
If he questions it. Its your home and an extra person adds to wear and tear and bills and that she was never mentioned or agreed to, you home, your rules, they have no rights and have pulled a fast one.
If he doesn't like it or gets shirty give him 24 hours notice and tell him to move his stuff out. Any significant hassle or threats, then don't make any agreement and tell him to leave on the spot. For convenience only I'd refund only what he didn't use. Has he paid a deposit? Have you ever let rooms before op? Up the deposit too, not sharing bills is a recipe for problems also. Check daft for prices?

By taking rent inclusive of bills you are shooting yourself in the foot regarding reaching your limits for what you are taking in for rent a room, in didn't think bills had to be reported too, don't recall seeing that on the form ever but I haven't let a room in years.
Basically rent inclusive of bills means people have no motivation to keep bills as low as possible, electric heating? Screw it, just run it all day.with the attitude he's taken so far why wouldn't he.

the_syco

robert2000 wrote: »

remainder of her stay?

How about nothing, as either she's gone by Monday, or they're both gone by Friday.

Moving someone in "on the sly" when the landlord lives there is just stupid!

Lau2976

I would say at least charge for utilities if nothing else. Last year my sister moved in with me for a few months because of issues with her job (although I lived there alone) and as agreed with my land lord we uped the rent by 35% and split utilities equally.

So if I was paying €1000 for rent and €200 utilities it was put up to €1350 and the utilities we were using.

robert2000

Its been a few weeks now I brought it up a while ago and was given a bit of a sob story so i ok you have 4 weeks to sort something out and that time is up!
if I end up getting someone else in I will take your advice about not including bill in the rent!

The_Morrigan

robert2000 wrote: »

Its been a few weeks now I brought it up a while ago and was given a bit of a sob story so i ok you have 4 weeks to sort something out and that time is up!
if I end up getting someone else in I will take your advice about not including bill in the rent!

It's easier to include the bills in the rent for the rent a room scheme as you have to include it in the annual tax return.
The trick is to have set price plans for all your utilities or pay the same amount in monthly to the accounts so that over the summer you build up a credit to use against the higher winter bills.

cerastes

If they end up going from not agreeing to paying more for her then take from the deposit for her stay, and I'd check the Meter and split bills, you might not have said it at the start but they arbitrarily changed the agreement without your consent.
If they stay and you're happy, get a deposit if you don't have one and split bills there ways. Check what the local rental rates are for an apartment and for a room, don't underprice yourself.

Personally if they are difficult in anyway or try negotiate I'd get them to move due to the slyness, they might pull a fast one and do some damage.
Under no circumstance take any dicking around or late rent.
I can't see how this would work well going into the future as they have taken the piss, unless they are completely suprised by it and genuinely apologetic I'd move them out, that can be on the spot if there is a hint of a threat or hostility. Otherwise its a reasonable notice, 24 hours is reasonable.
Accept no excuses.
Is either of them there during the day,
Opmif you haven't done this before, even if a person rents there, someone who might claim they are only staying temporarily but are using an all the facilities and running up bills is either in on the agreement or they don't have showers or cook and are there infrequently, tell them she has to chip in or they both ship out.
Awkward time for them toonif they don't agree or are not happy, take any extra money up front and no excuses or delays so they don't dick you around and leave next week giving them time to do some mischief.

You do have a deposit? Cos that's what helps limit this kind of messing around, ie you lose nothing if you hold some deposit and therefore influence.
Your place, your rules, don't be swayed by pleas or any hard luck story or it will only get worse.

The_Morrigan

cerastes wrote: »

200 easily and split the bills 3 ways without a doubt, did you or he ever say anything about this? How long have you left it, I'd have said it after she stayed over after 2 days. Say it now, looks like bad news.
Absolutely 200 plus share bills, its a right cheek to do without asking.
If he questions it. Its your home and an extra person adds to wear and tear and bills and that she was never mentioned or agreed to, you home, your rules, they have no rights and have pulled a fast one.
If he doesn't like it or gets shirty give him 24 hours notice and tell him to move his stuff out. Any significant hassle or threats, then don't make any agreement and tell him to leave on the spot. For convenience only I'd refund only what he didn't use. Has he paid a deposit? Have you ever let rooms before op? Up the deposit too, not sharing bills is a recipe for problems also. Check daft for prices?

By taking rent inclusive of bills you are shooting yourself in the foot regarding reaching your limits for what you are taking in for rent a room, in didn't think bills had to be reported too, don't recall seeing that on the form ever but I haven't let a room in years.
Basically rent inclusive of bills means people have no motivation to keep bills as low as possible, electric heating? Screw it, just run it all day.with the attitude he's taken so far why wouldn't he.

cerastes - on the bill element , it's very much a part of the scheme and has been that way for the last 6 years that I've been using it.

From the tax year 2015 onward, the total (gross) rent that you get, which includes sums that the tenant pays for food, utilities, laundry or similar goods and services, cannot exceed €12,000 in the tax year (1 January to 31 December) – see ‘Exclusions from rent-a-room relief’ below .

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

cerastes

The_Morrigan wrote: »

It's easier to include the bills in the rent for the rent a room scheme as you have to include it in the annual tax return.
The trick is to have set price plans for all your utilities or pay the same amount in monthly to the accounts so that over the summer you build up a credit to use against the higher winter bills.

That sounds like a mess, for a start, bills based on fixed amounts means a person renting a room may be paying more or maybe even less than what's due. Go by the bill at the time and the Meter readings is a more accurate and fair way.
Mixing rent and bills is a messy scenario in my opinion, no incentive scheme r them not to take long electric showers, run heating when its not needed. These people are taking the piss and its been four weeks, I'd be putting an end to this asap op. Never mind the sob stories or anything, its just dragging out that they are taking you for a ride.
Take cash off them and not a single excuse, they had a chance already, if they see you accepting another excuse they will think you're a soft touch and will lap up any sob story, even if its true, its not your problem, funnily people will pay up only if they have to, if you don't press it,why would they.

cerastes

The_Morrigan wrote: »

cerastes - on the bill element , it's very much a part of the scheme and has been that way for the last 6 years that I've been using it.




http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

I'm not disputing that, said that earlier,been years since I let a room in my home, but these people are taking the op for a ride. Not paying bills/inclusive in the rent means no incentive to minimise them, they have already taken serious advantage here, and don't seem to be paying their fair share.
The op will be seriously short changed when the weather is colder or they just run things with less concern even in good weather, then the op can find themself paying big bills and getting much less in return for their room.

The_Morrigan

I don't write the rules - the monies you receive all contribute towards that 12k, so if you are getting a fixed amount or rent + bills you have to have a record of all monies received over the year on the off chance you are audited.
Which imo is going to happen as a lot of people are abusing this scheme.

pablo128

To put it in context, they are paying the equivalent of 50 euro each per week. I paid my mother a lot more than that when I lived back home over 10 years ago!

The_Morrigan

NotCominBack wrote: »

700, and she does all the washing & cleaning too

Cut that out.

Sir Oxman

Rule number 1:
Don't share/live with couples. EVER.
Doubly so if one half was sneaked in.

handlemaster

you'd be better off without either way.

ABajaninCork

Personally? The guy overstepped the mark from the time Girlfriend moved in. He knows it. You know it. Tell him tonight, give them until the end of the week, then they have to hit the pavement. His hard luck stories are not your concern.

jackdalad23

Agree. Taking the p**s. Extra money or show em the door.

BabySlam

You could ask him to have a chat for a few minutes. Tell him you are happy with him as a tenant and in fact you did not mind his partner staying for a short while. But as it looks like she is still there, you will expect him to understand that she needs to pay the same amount as he does. He may quibble, but it sounds like you are charging too little. So it is 400 for one person or 800 for two. You do not have to justify your charge - there is a lot of inconvenience etc sharing with a "couple". Just say that that will be the charge for her "going forward" (an expression I hate!) ...either you will get the extra money or she will move out or they both will. Try not to have a bust-up as your apartment might suffer. Also you should say you expect her to pay 4 weeks up front (you DID do this with him didnt you?) . Do not be afraid of having to find somebody else - if you are generally agreeable he wont want to go. Dont ramble around the point, just make your few points and keep repeating them nicely.

BabySlam

On another point, it is useful to have a printed list of "house rules" covering visitors and other stuff.

Mrs OBumble

OP, lots of people here telling you that you have a problem living with a couple. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. Really, it's your call.

But think carefully: how much of a problem is she, and how much extra cost is involved in having her in the house? Use those factors to decide how much you want to up the rent.

Yeah, it's not great that it just happened - but it's possible that he didn't really plan it that way, or that he just didn't think about how you'd see it.

Solve problems that you actually have, not ones that randoms on the interweb think you have.

campingcarist

cerastes wrote: »

That sounds like a mess, for a start, bills based on fixed amounts means a person renting a room may be paying more or maybe even less than what's due. Go by the bill at the time and the Meter readings is a more accurate and fair way.
Mixing rent and bills is a messy scenario in my opinion, no incentive scheme r them not to take long electric showers, run heating when its not needed. ....

Having been a lodger for many years, I have always preferred a "bills included" basis. I knew exactly how much I had to pay per month even if it was more than a shre of the actual bills.

The_Morrigan

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I don't write the rules - the monies you receive all contribute towards that 12k, so if you are getting a fixed amount or rent + bills you have to have a record of all monies received over the year on the off chance you are audited.
Which imo is going to happen as a lot of people are abusing this scheme.

It's hardly that big a job to keep the bills and jot down how much received (very easy if just dividing the full bill amount up evenly).

I'd imagine most people keep the bill element in cash anyway so it's not going to be showing up even if audited.

The_Morrigan

Emilee Delicious Rice wrote: »

It's hardly that big a job to keep the bills and jot down how much received (very easy if just dividing the full bill amount up evenly).

I'd imagine most people keep the bill element in cash anyway so it's not going to be showing up even if audited.

That there would be fraud.

daUbiq

The_Morrigan wrote: »

That there would be fraud.

This is Ireland... fraud is rife in our wonderful society!

The_Morrigan

daUbiq wrote: »

This is Ireland... fraud is rife in our wonderful society!

Well it is not tolerated here - so there shall be no advice given to the OP that will result in him partaking in any dubious activities.

Mrs OBumble

Emilee Delicious Rice wrote: »

It's hardly that big a job to keep the bills and jot down how much received (very easy if just dividing the full bill amount up evenly).

I'd imagine most people keep the bill element in cash anyway so it's not going to be showing up even if audited.

Auditors aren't actually dumb.

If there was no written record of how the bills were done, they would quite possible assume that an equal-shared cash split was in place and do an assessment based on that.

For this reason alone, if you're doing "rent-a-room", it's a good idea to have some kind of written agreement, signed by the lodgeer, saying that bills are included.

whupdedo

How many people were ever actually audited over the rent a room scheme ,I'd say very few,

op I'd up the rent, but not so much as to force them to move out, you sat they're quite and stay in the room a lot, I'd try and keep them, better the devil you know would be my take on it

JillyQ

Op he has showed a complete lack of respect for you and your property. I'm speaking as an owner occupier who rents a room out in my house. If anyone tried to move someone else in they would find themselves out pretty quickly. However if you are going to let her stay i would say charge them an additional €200 at least a month but say you need the bill split as well.

cerastes

Completely agree, leaving it longer than a few days and noticing that someone was using the shower and cooking facilities Id be on that pretty quick, from experience if you leave people off they will just take advantage, the sob story doesnt make a difference, they should have brought it up.

Any new info OP? are you a bloke or woman? is there some reason you dont want to tackle this?

While someone has said, it looks like other posters are identifying a more serious problem than you are experiencing, its your home, this wasnt what you agreed to and have questioned it enough to leave it some time and then seek advice here, the overwhelming advice is knock it on the head.

No need to say this in a way that would make it awkward for all to still live together but it needs to be sorted, Id be taking back money too (as in back date what they owed from when she moved in).

I found two apartments, one for 600 and the other 650 on daft in tallaght for house share for a couple/double bedroom, so plus 200 on top of the 400 he already pays is reasonable.
Thats 300 each for a month which is still reasonable, Id also be doing bills seperate, otherwise you arent getting a fair amount.
Thats still comes in well under the 12k allowance not even including bills, what are they going to amount to? whatever, deduct that off the money you desperately need and dont expect any favours from someone that has done what they already have so far.

I presume you are in it because you need the money, but you are selling yourself well short by allowing someone else in for a free ride and including bills, with what you have leftover wont be much, how much is it worth the hassle, if they arent happy, well it will cost a damn sight more to get their own place.
I hope to god you have a deposit, if not start adding it to the monthly rent or you might be back here with another thread after getting very little inn return for your room/extra wear and tear/inconvenience.
Its not too late to apply this after the fact.
ALSO, you hold all the cards, you are under no obligation to formalise anything by putting anything in writing, this is your home, you have all the rights, putting anything in writing may reduce that advantage, not something you need in your own home.
Any insistence or refusal, just give them them the time frame (max a fe days) to sort out the money situation or their marching orders or you will effectively be housing someone free of charge.

robert2000

cerastes wrote: »

Any new info OP? are you a bloke or woman? is there some reason you dont want to tackle this?

I am a single bloke Its my place but I hate confrontation even when I am 100% in the right.
I am right on the edge of being in trouble mortgage/money wise and I just can't manage without the rent money if it comes to that

They have not been around since yesterday so no change yet!

cerastes

robert2000 wrote: »

I am a single bloke Its my place but I hate confrontation even when I am 100% in the right.
I am right on the edge of being in trouble mortgage/money wise and I just can't manage without the rent money if it comes to that

They have not been around since yesterday so no change yet!

On the edge, dont worry about it, seriously, when you are up to your neck, then get concerned, even then.
All the same, it will be better help if they pay their fair share, all the more reason to demand she pays.
You cant rely on someone like that, youd be better off having someone in that isnt going to mess you about as they are taking advantage of your situation and may suspect you dont want confrontation.
I recommend you knock it on the head, just tell them (you dont have to ask, plead or encourage, at the same time it doesnt need to be hostile or angry, just matter of fact) she has to pay her way end of or leave if thats what you want, if it was me Id say you'll start splitting the bills three ways (I highly recommend you do that if you are stuck for money).
Do both of them work? from nearby?

If they say the bills wasnt in the agreement, well neither was her staying either, they are doubling (or maybe more) his expected utility usage and halving what they pay for utilities, on top of that it appears the all in bills deal means there is no limit to how much they could abuse that.

Do you have a deposit? do you know anyone near for moral support? back date any amount to the time she moved in and if you dont have a deposit, get one.

I appreciate you say you need the money, but the bank wont throw you out on your ear if they go or are told to leave, in the interim of getting someone else in.
You cant rely on someone this bad, Ive found either they will realise the game is up and just pay up or any niceness wears off them rapidly when they realise reality kicks in, so Id say either she moves out or they pay up. I dont think the former will work as she lives there now.
Basically, youd be better off with them gone, there are other nice and decent people out there. But if she pays her fair share, then take advantage, any hassles or backlash, be prepared to give them notice, if it comes to that get a few mates in for a pizza and xbox or whatever, 24 hours notice is acceptable, any threats call the gardai, and turf him out on the spot.
Its your decision, they have taken too many privleges so soon from what I can see, what will they be like later? not worth it.

Its been tried on me in the past, in my opinion/experience best nip it in the bud.

oppenheimer1

Some of the advice the OP is being offered here is terrible to be honest it takes no account that if he doesn't turf the person out he still has to live with him. The first thing you should ask your licensee is how long is the GF going to be staying. It is quite possible that she is looking for a place and is stuck for somewhere to stay at the moment in the short term. If shes going to be around for less than a month then seeking extra money is probably not worth it, for the sake of good relations. If she is staying longer then you should look at a three way split of the bills and if the arrangement is more long term then you should look at an increase in the rent. Any increase should be proportional, if there is only you and him, then half his rent is for his room and half is for access to the communal areas. If his rent is 400 then it should only increase to 470.


Demanding the crazy sums proposed here will only lose you your licensee.

athtrasna

Sorry but I disagree, the lodger has an absolute cheek moving his girlfriend in and the rent should increase retrospectively immediately. Whether or not the girlfriend is looking for a place is not the op's problem and more than two /three nights is not on. They are taking the absolute proverbial! Particularly with bills being included, it's costing the op to have her there!