Does 'Irish Heritage' mean anything to you?

Hello, folks...

I'd like to gather AH opinions on the meaning/relevance/importance of 'Irish Heritage'.

As far as I can tell, from about Gen Y-ers onwards -- and some Gen X-ers, too -- Irish heritage has lost a load of relevance and is not a central area of interest to many.

As for me, I'm interested more in Irish Catholic heritage and our natural heritage (as in landscapes, rivers, mountains...) than political heritage. However, although I would say that the former two are important to me, I do not necessarily consider them a central part of my life and way of thinking.

I'll leave it up to you guys to describe your own definition of heritage along with your rating of it on the poll (and any other comments you think are relevant to answering the thread title).

Many thanks!

EDIT: The last option in the poll should read 'It's more or less irrelevant...', of course.

Thanks to all who've voted so far: please keep them coming!

Wacker The Attacker

Corned beef and cabbage be jaysus begorrah

Wacker The Attacker

It's the perception of irishness that can be more annoying.

The american " I'm an one eighth irish wack-a-rooney leprechaun" type of nonsense that annoys me.

Isnt nationality more of a mindset than anything else

Pumpkinseeds

I'm part of Generation X, tbh, the whole Irish heritage begosh and begorrah, Irish language, dreary depressing poetry, etc crap means nothing to me, never has done. For me being Irish is an accident of birth, nothing more. I'm not knocking other people's views but being born on an island in the Atlantic isn't really an achievement.

Eugene Norman

I voted middling. I don't trust the deracinated "it don't mean nuttin to me guv" unless you've left and ain't coming back. A cousin of mine who was always like that high tailed it back from Oz pretty soon after going there because of home sickness. Home sickness for a placd he felt no affinity to until he left.

Meanwhile I'm fond of my irish heritage and part english background and both countries are in the top ten. Great to visit. Great history. Good peeps.

Eugene Norman

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'm part of Generation X, tbh, the whole Irish heritage begosh and begorrah, Irish language, dreary depressing poetry, etc crap means nothing to me, never has done. For me being Irish is an accident of birth, nothing more. I'm not knocking other people's views but being born on an island in the Atlantic isn't really an achievement.

Being born anywhere isn't an achievement, being uninterested in where you come from is an indication of dullness ( as is using americanised marketing guff about generations).

conorh91

Of course it's important. Its importance isn't overbearing, but it certainly matters.

It matters if you had ancestors who grinded and drudged through life hoping for a better future for their offspring, and eventually you or your grandparents are the generation who saw that alternative way of life finally realized.

To me, being Irish means an awareness of where you came from, which for many of our ancestors, at least somewhere along the line, was poverty and oppression, and even famine in our recent history. The sacrifices those people made deserves to be acknowledged. Not as tokenism, with parades and museums, but in a practical way, by ensuring fairness and freedoms in our own country.

People who rejoice at the gradual erosion of cultures and heritage, and who think we should all be part of one great featureless world where everyone is the same, are as bad as those who would sack museums and desecrate monuments. It's a type of cultural sabotage.

Pumpkinseeds

conorh91 wrote: »

Of course it's important. Its importance isn't overbearing, but it certainly matters.

It matters if you had ancestors who grinded and drudged through life hoping for a better future for their offspring, and eventually you or your grandparents are the generation who saw that alternative way of life finally realized.

To me, being Irish means an awareness of where you came from, which for many of our ancestors, at least somewhere along the line, was poverty and oppression, and even famine in our recent history. The sacrifices those people made deserves to be acknowledged. Not as tokenism, with parades and museums, but in a practical way, by ensuring fairness and freedoms in our own country.

People who rejoice at the gradual erosion of cultures and heritage, and who think we should all be part of one great featureless world where everyone is the same, are as bad as those who would sack museums and desecrate monuments. It's a type of cultural sabotage.

Apart from the upper classes that applies to every generation of every country in the world.

conorh91

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Apart from the upper classes that applies to every generation of every country in the world.

The specific nature of it doesn't. That's a bit like saying that future generations of Jews shouldn't remember the Holocaust as something central to their identity because the same thing happened the Chinese under the Qing Empire, or to American natives during 16th century acts of genocide in the Americas.

Donkey Oaty

conorh91 wrote: »

To me, being Irish means an awareness of where you came from, which for many of our ancestors, at least somewhere along the line, was poverty and oppression

Jesus Cornflakes on stilts.

Why don't we rename the country "The Self-Pitying Republic of Misery".

brummytom

As an English person with Irish grandparents, the heritage does mean a lot to me. It's hard to describe, but 'Irish Catholics' here, first second or third generation, have a distinct identity. I find I instantly get on with people who've got that heritage, probably due to similar upbringings, the same frames of reference, and similar attitudes.

I once read an article by an English flute player about Traditional Irish music in England. He made the point that many musicians in England may feel the need to try and outdo their Irish counterparts to prove their 'irishness'.

I know a lot's said about the whole 'Irish-Americans' who's great grandad bought a lawn mower off a woman who's brother had been to Ennis, and I don't do the plastic paddy shít of only drinking Guinness at this time of year while wearing big hats, but that connection to Ireland is something I value. There's nothing that annoys me more than 'but you're English, shut up,' many other immigrant groups celebrate where they came from, and I think the irish catholic identity should be embraced.

conorh91

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Jesus Cornflakes on stilts.

Why don't we rename the country "The Self-Pitying Republic of Misery".

Yeah yeah.

Acknowledging does not being wallowing, it can aim to make sure we have a more positive future. If you bother to read what I said, you'll see the bit where I said our heritage should make us especially passionate about freedom and fairness for everyone.

Donkey Oaty

brummytom wrote: »

As an English person with Irish grandparents, the heritage does mean a lot to me. It's hard to describe, but 'Irish Catholics' here, first second or third generation, have a distinct identity. I find I instantly get on with people who've got that heritage, probably due to similar upbringings, the same frames of reference, and similar attitudes.

I once read an article by an English flute player about Traditional Irish music in England. He made the point that many musicians in England may feel the need to try and outdo their Irish counterparts to prove their 'irishness'.

I know a lot's said about the whole 'Irish-Americans' who's great grandad bought a lawn mower off a woman who's brother had been to Ennis, and I don't do the plastic paddy shít of only drinking Guinness at this time of year while wearing big hats, but that connection to Ireland is something I value. There's nothing that annoys me more than 'but you're English, shut up,' many other immigrant groups celebrate where they came from, and I think the irish catholic identity should be embraced.

Brummytom does not speak with forked tongue.

He has decided what is important to him and runs with it.

Nobody can argue with that.

Donkey Oaty

conorh91 wrote: »

Yeah yeah.

Acknowledging does not being wallowing, it can aim to make sure we have a more positive future. If you bother to read what I said, you'll see the bit where I said our heritage should make us especially passionate about freedom and fairness for everyone.

I read it very carefully, several times, before posting an extremely restrained comment, which will be a source of disappointment to the eavesdropping ghosts of my Irish heroes - and there are many - who agree with my views on mawkish nationalist sentimentality.

LDN_Irish

I saved this to show a friend but I feel it's relevant here:

Iwasfrozen

conorh91 wrote: »

Yeah yeah.

Acknowledging does not being wallowing, it can aim to make sure we have a more positive future. If you bother to read what I said, you'll see the bit where I said our heritage should make us especially passionate about freedom and fairness for everyone.

Everyone is concerned with freedom and fairness but people's definitions of freedom and fairness vary wildly.

Pumpkinseeds

conorh91 wrote: »

The specific nature of it doesn't. That's a bit like saying that future generations of Jews shouldn't remember the Holocaust as something central to their identity because the same thing happened the Chinese under the Qing Empire, or to American natives during 16th century acts of genocide in the Americas.

Nah, you just need to admit that I'm right and you're clutching at straws.

LDN_Irish

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I saved this to show a friend but I feel it's relevant here:

Sorry, I hit post too soon.

I think my point was that it's not relevant at all to me, especially when you're dragging up sun 10 Percentiles to derive your sense of self.

conorh91

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Everyone is concerned with freedom and fairness but people's definitions of freedom and fairness vary wildly.

Not sure what your point is.

We have the democratic institutions to debate, apply and amend our particular vision of those two aspirations.

All I suggest is that, given our recent history, we should be protective of the right to freedom and fairness, even if interpretations will change as society changes.

MRnotlob606

I am an Irish Nationalist.

Adamantium

Watching Game of Thrones and seeing the beautiful landscapes of Northern Ireland has made me realise that there are little to no movies based on Irish Myths and legends and/or real life Irish ancient figures.

It seems like like a goldmine that is waiting to tapped, enough of the existential student films that nobody but yourself gives a **** about, give me a rousing epic.

Donkey Oaty

Adamantium wrote: »

Watching Game of Thrones and seeing the beautiful landscapes of Northern Ireland has made me realise that there are little to no movies based on Irish Myths and legends and/or real life Irish ancient figures.

It seems like like a goldmine that is waiting to tapped, enough of the existential student films that nobody but yourself gives a **** about, give me a rousing epic.

Be careful what you wish for...

Eugene Norman

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Nah, you just need to admit that I'm right and you're clutching at straws.

Excellent reply. I mean I though when he pointed out that other groups don't forget their history he had you but that erudition and use of historical references is beyond answer.

Of course irelands history is not related to whether you feel allied to the country or not.

Eugene Norman

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Sorry, I hit post too soon.

I think my point was that it's not relevant at all to me, especially when you're dragging up sun 10 Percentiles to derive your sense of self.

Surely people in Ireland -- where this forum is based -- would be more than 8% irish.

LDN_Irish

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Surely people in Ireland -- where this forum is based -- would be more than 8% irish.

A good 70% of me thinks that you're probably right. 15% and the other 15% are conflicted.

Karl Stein

Still an unrepentant Fenian.

Iwasfrozen

conorh91 wrote: »

Not sure what your point is.

We have the democratic institutions to debate, apply and amend our particular vision of those two aspirations.

All I suggest is that, given our recent history, we should be protective of the right to freedom and fairness, even if interpretations will change as society changes.

My point is that given everyone's definition of freedom and fairness is different then compromise is necessary and someone (probably large groups of people) is (are) always going to believe we are failing that aspiration. There is no way to ever achieve that aspiration for everyone.

Eugene Norman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

My point is that given everyone's definition of freedom and fairness is different then compromise is necessary and someone (probably large groups of people) is (are) always going to believe we are failing that aspiration.

Yes but do you feel irish or not.

Iwasfrozen

My heritage is important to me in the sense it is how I define myself but I believe spending too much time looking behind instead of looking to the future is counter productive.

I obviously care about my parents and have fond (fuzzy) memories of my grandparents but obviously anyone beyond that would be a stranger to me.

Iwasfrozen

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Yes but do you feel irish or not.

I am Irish. I don't feel a nationality. :P

random1337

Absolutely not, I can't wait until we become ethnic minorities in our country. Thankfully our youth today are self loathing and unpatriotic so it shouldn't be too long now until we breed ourselves out.

Pumpkinseeds

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Excellent reply. I mean I though when he pointed out that other groups don't forget their history he had you but that erudition and use of historical references is beyond answer.

Of course irelands history is not related to whether you feel allied to the country or not.

No he didn't. He's focusing on the negative elements, i.e the Famine, the Holocaust. Summing up heritage based on tragedy and misery. He leaves aside the positive aspects of Irish Heritage in favour of the hand wringing, hard done by Irish that so many want to cling on to. I, like many of generation X, had Irish drilled into me in a dreary rote manner that killed any interest I might have had. Listening to the misery of Peig Sayers and her dreary God forsaken existence.

Many of us have little or no interest in or love for Irish heritage because the way it was drilled into us bred an indifference for something we couldn't relate to. Frankly, I find it insulting to suggest that a lack of interest in Irish heritage is the equivalent of asking future generations of Jews to forget the Holocaust. Maybe instead of talking horse shi*te he could aquaint himself with the details of the Holocaust.

conorh91

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

My point is that given everyone's definition of freedom and fairness is different then compromise is necessary and someone (probably large groups of people) is (are) always going to believe we are failing that aspiration. There is no way to ever achieve that aspiration for everyone.

That's correct, there is no way of achieving perfect fairness; nature doesn't know perfection, and human nature is no exception.

I'm not claiming we are perfectly free or perfectly fair. I'm suggesting that these are qualities which, by dint of our recent history, we should be (and usually are) especially passionate about.

For example, nowhere else in Europe is private property so highly-valued. That's partially a product of our history of attachment to the land, and a long history of having been denied the right to own property, I suggest.

Equally, nowhere else in Europe is Government so accountable to the courts of justice and to the Constitution: not even in republican France or liberal Britain. This unusual feature of our society is a remnant of an Irish experience of political oppression, I suggest.

These are two examples of the freedom and the fairness that Irish people feel passionate about, and they are two aspects of Irish life which people would be very slow to part with. I'm sure there are many more examples, and maybe better ones.

The point is we are constantly seeking freedom and fairness, not that we have managed to achieve it. We probably never will.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Hello, folks...

I'd like to gather AH opinions on the meaning/relevance/importance of 'Irish Heritage'.

As far as I can tell, from about Gen Y-ers onwards -- and some Gen X-ers, too -- Irish heritage has lost a load of relevance and is not a central area of interest to many.

As for me, I'm interested more in Irish Catholic heritage and our natural heritage (as in landscapes, rivers, mountains...) than political heritage. However, although I would say that the former two are important to me, I do not necessarily consider them a central part of my life and way of thinking.

I'll leave it up to you guys to describe your own definition of heritage along with your rating of it on the poll (and any other comments you think are relevant to answering the thread title).

Many thanks!

EDIT: The last option in the poll should read 'It's more or less irrelevant...', of course.

I am actually beginning to detest the word "heritage". It gets bandied about a lot but no oever seems to have a clear defintion of what it actually means. What do YOU mean by "heritage"?

People gravitate to what is most relevbant and interesting to their lives - generation X and Y are still cultures, like it or not. And at least people who live their lives by these or any alternative subcultures are at least expressing themsleves and not blindly following some some mythical handed-down ideal.

bodice ripper

Being Irish is very important to me, but I don't know if I believe in heritage. You don't own events that happened to people you never met, even if they are faintly related to you. What a bizarre idea.

crockholm

It does,I am interested in how we got to where we are today,who we are today and looking at ourselves through a prism is easier when we use our built heritage,our linguistic heritage,our cultural heritage.

I don't neccessarily Think a person any less Irish if they don't share a similar interest in their own heritage,but i do connect better with people with a more pro-Active Outlook regards irish heritage.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I am actually beginning to detest the word "heritage". It gets bandied about a lot but no oever seems to have a clear defintion of what it actually means. What do YOU mean by "heritage"?

Thanks for mentioning this and I appreciate your question (and the frustration that may lie behind it).

When I decided to allow posters to discuss their own views of 'heritage' (and to use the poll accordingly), I was aware that it might look lazy of me not to use a definition of 'heritage' myself. Maybe that was part of it. However, I thought that allowing people to make what they would of a term that has unfortunately become rather fuzzy might also be useful: when a word is no longer generally understood in a strictly defined sense, one needs to know what people make of it.

I understand 'heritage' to be a very broad term, but it ultimately concerns that which we inherit: whether by being taught (implicitly or explicitly; by parents, grandparents, etc, or in our formal education system) or by learning what was the heritage of our ancestors (reclaiming it, to an extent). In my original post, I mentioned different kinds of heritage: Irish Catholic, natural, political. There are others, of course...though there's probably debate on where to draw the line between certain kinds of 'shared history' and heritage.

super_furry

It mean we're not bleedin' Brits!

The Backwards Man

Since when does Irish heritage = Catholic heritage?

Hans Bricks

As a Dubliner I always loved visiting relatives up the North and out West. Something very charming and innocent in a way about the whole parochial, GAA loving communities who would scoff at me for being a jackeen. Stark difference to me when I'd come home then to Dublin that's for sure.

Places like O'Donoghues on Merrion Row where the barmen stand on the counter handing out Guinness, while the trad session is hopping in the corner or the repugnant smell of manure once you go outside the commuter belt , I'd like to think elements like those will still be prevalent even when I'm dead and gone.

bb1234567

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'm part of Generation X, tbh, the whole Irish heritage begosh and begorrah, Irish language, dreary depressing poetry, etc crap means nothing to me, never has done. For me being Irish is an accident of birth, nothing more. I'm not knocking other people's views but being born on an island in the Atlantic isn't really an achievement.

You can still be proud of something you didn't 'achieve', Im proud of our countrys history, I love our culture, Im proud to be an irish person even though I didn't do anything to be irish, or whatever

Darkglasses

Heritage is central to both my jobs, so yeah it's pretty important to me

P_1

Doesn't really do a lot for me personally, basically I prefer to deal in the present and not in the past

InTheTrees

Hans Bricks wrote: »

or the repugnant smell of manure once you go outside the commuter belt , I'd like to think elements like those will still be prevalent even when I'm dead and gone.

The new name for The Pale is the Commuter Belt.

:rolleyes:

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Being born anywhere isn't an achievement, being uninterested in where you come from is an indication of dullness ( as is using americanised marketing guff about generations).

I'd have gone the opposite.. Being too interested would imply a lack of other things in a person's life.

Paramite Pie

bodice ripper wrote: »

Being Irish is very important to me, but I don't know if I believe in heritage. You don't own events that happened to people you never met, even if they are faintly related to you. What a bizarre idea.

It's more to do with the fact that we're products of that history in ways we don't always realise. In fact, if Britain never invaded Ireland most of us would never have been born - so the one thing so many Irish people bitch is actually crucial to our existence!

Reading Irish history makes me think of the butterfly effect and how much impact people can have. My own ancestors arrive from France in 1798 and fought in the rebellion, so I take a particular interest in that part of history. Even one person can have many ancestors, completely changing the course of our history in the long run.


So it's not about thinking that our history is better or more worth telling than other nations, but more about how its shaped our perceptions in ways we often don't even realise. You ARE the history all added up, from unimportant skirmishes to larger battles, from hardship to the good times aswell.

My only complaint is that we don't learn enough about Irish Cheiftains & their reigns. Aside from Brian Boru, I never heard about other chieftains and their stories until I read up on it myself. It'd be nice to learn about our own provinces more.

Adamantium wrote: »

Watching Game of Thrones and seeing the beautiful landscapes of Northern Ireland has made me realise that there are little to no movies based on Irish Myths and legends and/or real life Irish ancient figures.

It seems like like a goldmine that is waiting to tapped, enough of the existential student films that nobody but yourself gives a **** about, give me a rousing epic.

Yeah, we seriously need some Epic Irish movies!! It's so much to choose from as well.

shruikan2553

I see no reason for me to attempt to enjoy or take part in something just because of heritage or culture. If I enjoy or like something it will be of interest and I'll take part in. Some of that may be part of Irish heritage, some of it could be English or even Asian.

Things change all of the time. Parts of heritage and culture are lost, new things are brought in.

Hans Bricks

InTheTrees wrote: »

The new name for The Pale is the Commuter Belt.

:rolleyes:

Pedantic much ?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Pedantic much ?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's not even pedantic because he's not right.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for mentioning this and I appreciate your question (and the frustration that may lie behind it).

When I decided to allow posters to discuss their own views of 'heritage' (and to use the poll accordingly), I was aware that it might look lazy of me not to use a definition of 'heritage' myself. Maybe that was part of it. However, I thought that allowing people to make what they would of a term that has unfortunately become rather fuzzy might also be useful: when a word is no longer generally understood in a strictly defined sense, one needs to know what people make of it.

Therin lies the problem: how can I tell you whether or not I'm proud of it when I'm not entirely sure what it is?

I understand 'heritage' to be a very broad term, but it ultimately concerns that which we inherit: whether by being taught (implicitly or explicitly; by parents, grandparents, etc, or in our formal education system) or by learning what was the heritage of our ancestors (reclaiming it, to an extent). In my original post, I mentioned different kinds of heritage: Irish Catholic, natural, political. There are others, of course...though there's probably debate on where to draw the line between certain kinds of 'shared history' and heritage.

I tend to take umbrage at the idea of "education" considering I'm from an era when it was used as a tool to ram my heritage into me. Neither my paretns nor grandparents - loveing people for the most part - never really had a strong sense of heritage either, so I grew up wondering why exactly I was supposed to be blindly proud of something I was completely unable to relate to.

Interesting that you use the word "catholic" as part of irish heritage. Which it is, but most people would say that being catholic means nothing to them whereas beign Irish does. For me, there is no difference between the two in terms of heritage.