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Does 'Irish Heritage' mean anything to you?

[Deleted User]

Hello, folks...

I'd like to gather AH opinions on the meaning/relevance/importance of 'Irish Heritage'.

As far as I can tell, from about Gen Y-ers onwards -- and some Gen X-ers, too -- Irish heritage has lost a load of relevance and is not a central area of interest to many.

As for me, I'm interested more in Irish Catholic heritage and our natural heritage (as in landscapes, rivers, mountains...) than political heritage. However, although I would say that the former two are important to me, I do not necessarily consider them a central part of my life and way of thinking.

I'll leave it up to you guys to describe your own definition of heritage along with your rating of it on the poll (and any other comments you think are relevant to answering the thread title).

Many thanks!

EDIT: The last option in the poll should read 'It's more or less irrelevant...', of course.

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random1337

Absolutely not, I can't wait until we become ethnic minorities in our country. Thankfully our youth today are self loathing and unpatriotic so it shouldn't be too long now until we breed ourselves out.

Pumpkinseeds

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Excellent reply. I mean I though when he pointed out that other groups don't forget their history he had you but that erudition and use of historical references is beyond answer.

Of course irelands history is not related to whether you feel allied to the country or not.

No he didn't. He's focusing on the negative elements, i.e the Famine, the Holocaust. Summing up heritage based on tragedy and misery. He leaves aside the positive aspects of Irish Heritage in favour of the hand wringing, hard done by Irish that so many want to cling on to. I, like many of generation X, had Irish drilled into me in a dreary rote manner that killed any interest I might have had. Listening to the misery of Peig Sayers and her dreary God forsaken existence.

Many of us have little or no interest in or love for Irish heritage because the way it was drilled into us bred an indifference for something we couldn't relate to. Frankly, I find it insulting to suggest that a lack of interest in Irish heritage is the equivalent of asking future generations of Jews to forget the Holocaust. Maybe instead of talking horse shi*te he could aquaint himself with the details of the Holocaust.

conorh91

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

My point is that given everyone's definition of freedom and fairness is different then compromise is necessary and someone (probably large groups of people) is (are) always going to believe we are failing that aspiration. There is no way to ever achieve that aspiration for everyone.

That's correct, there is no way of achieving perfect fairness; nature doesn't know perfection, and human nature is no exception.

I'm not claiming we are perfectly free or perfectly fair. I'm suggesting that these are qualities which, by dint of our recent history, we should be (and usually are) especially passionate about.

For example, nowhere else in Europe is private property so highly-valued. That's partially a product of our history of attachment to the land, and a long history of having been denied the right to own property, I suggest.

Equally, nowhere else in Europe is Government so accountable to the courts of justice and to the Constitution: not even in republican France or liberal Britain. This unusual feature of our society is a remnant of an Irish experience of political oppression, I suggest.

These are two examples of the freedom and the fairness that Irish people feel passionate about, and they are two aspects of Irish life which people would be very slow to part with. I'm sure there are many more examples, and maybe better ones.

The point is we are constantly seeking freedom and fairness, not that we have managed to achieve it. We probably never will.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Hello, folks...

I'd like to gather AH opinions on the meaning/relevance/importance of 'Irish Heritage'.

As far as I can tell, from about Gen Y-ers onwards -- and some Gen X-ers, too -- Irish heritage has lost a load of relevance and is not a central area of interest to many.

As for me, I'm interested more in Irish Catholic heritage and our natural heritage (as in landscapes, rivers, mountains...) than political heritage. However, although I would say that the former two are important to me, I do not necessarily consider them a central part of my life and way of thinking.

I'll leave it up to you guys to describe your own definition of heritage along with your rating of it on the poll (and any other comments you think are relevant to answering the thread title).

Many thanks!

EDIT: The last option in the poll should read 'It's more or less irrelevant...', of course.

I am actually beginning to detest the word "heritage". It gets bandied about a lot but no oever seems to have a clear defintion of what it actually means. What do YOU mean by "heritage"?

People gravitate to what is most relevbant and interesting to their lives - generation X and Y are still cultures, like it or not. And at least people who live their lives by these or any alternative subcultures are at least expressing themsleves and not blindly following some some mythical handed-down ideal.

bodice ripper

Being Irish is very important to me, but I don't know if I believe in heritage. You don't own events that happened to people you never met, even if they are faintly related to you. What a bizarre idea.

crockholm

It does,I am interested in how we got to where we are today,who we are today and looking at ourselves through a prism is easier when we use our built heritage,our linguistic heritage,our cultural heritage.

I don't neccessarily Think a person any less Irish if they don't share a similar interest in their own heritage,but i do connect better with people with a more pro-Active Outlook regards irish heritage.

[Deleted User]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I am actually beginning to detest the word "heritage". It gets bandied about a lot but no oever seems to have a clear defintion of what it actually means. What do YOU mean by "heritage"?

Thanks for mentioning this and I appreciate your question (and the frustration that may lie behind it).

When I decided to allow posters to discuss their own views of 'heritage' (and to use the poll accordingly), I was aware that it might look lazy of me not to use a definition of 'heritage' myself. Maybe that was part of it. However, I thought that allowing people to make what they would of a term that has unfortunately become rather fuzzy might also be useful: when a word is no longer generally understood in a strictly defined sense, one needs to know what people make of it.

I understand 'heritage' to be a very broad term, but it ultimately concerns that which we inherit: whether by being taught (implicitly or explicitly; by parents, grandparents, etc, or in our formal education system) or by learning what was the heritage of our ancestors (reclaiming it, to an extent). In my original post, I mentioned different kinds of heritage: Irish Catholic, natural, political. There are others, of course...though there's probably debate on where to draw the line between certain kinds of 'shared history' and heritage.

super_furry

It mean we're not bleedin' Brits!

The Backwards Man

Since when does Irish heritage = Catholic heritage?

Hans Bricks

As a Dubliner I always loved visiting relatives up the North and out West. Something very charming and innocent in a way about the whole parochial, GAA loving communities who would scoff at me for being a jackeen.

Stark difference to me when I'd come home then to Dublin that's for sure.

Places like O'Donoghues on Merrion Row where the barmen stand on the counter handing out Guinness, while the trad session is hopping in the corner or the repugnant smell of manure once you go outside the commuter belt , I'd like to think elements like those will still be prevalent even when I'm dead and gone.

bb1234567

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'm part of Generation X, tbh, the whole Irish heritage begosh and begorrah, Irish language, dreary depressing poetry, etc crap means nothing to me, never has done. For me being Irish is an accident of birth, nothing more. I'm not knocking other people's views but being born on an island in the Atlantic isn't really an achievement.

You can still be proud of something you didn't 'achieve', Im proud of our countrys history, I love our culture, Im proud to be an irish person even though I didn't do anything to be irish, or whatever

Darkglasses

Heritage is central to both my jobs, so yeah it's pretty important to me

P_1

Doesn't really do a lot for me personally, basically I prefer to deal in the present and not in the past

InTheTrees

Hans Bricks wrote: »

or the repugnant smell of manure once you go outside the commuter belt , I'd like to think elements like those will still be prevalent even when I'm dead and gone.

The new name for The Pale is the Commuter Belt.

:rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Being born anywhere isn't an achievement, being uninterested in where you come from is an indication of dullness ( as is using americanised marketing guff about generations).

I'd have gone the opposite.. Being too interested would imply a lack of other things in a person's life.

Paramite Pie

bodice ripper wrote: »

Being Irish is very important to me, but I don't know if I believe in heritage. You don't own events that happened to people you never met, even if they are faintly related to you. What a bizarre idea.

It's more to do with the fact that we're products of that history in ways we don't always realise. In fact, if Britain never invaded Ireland most of us would never have been born - so the one thing so many Irish people bitch is actually crucial to our existence!

Reading Irish history makes me think of the butterfly effect and how much impact people can have. My own ancestors arrive from France in 1798 and fought in the rebellion, so I take a particular interest in that part of history. Even one person can have many ancestors, completely changing the course of our history in the long run.

So it's not about thinking that our history is better or more worth telling than other nations, but more about how its shaped our perceptions in ways we often don't even realise. You ARE the history all added up, from unimportant skirmishes to larger battles, from hardship to the good times aswell.

My only complaint is that we don't learn enough about Irish Cheiftains & their reigns. Aside from Brian Boru, I never heard about other chieftains and their stories until I read up on it myself. It'd be nice to learn about our own provinces more.

Adamantium wrote: »

Watching Game of Thrones and seeing the beautiful landscapes of Northern Ireland has made me realise that there are little to no movies based on Irish Myths and legends and/or real life Irish ancient figures.

It seems like like a goldmine that is waiting to tapped, enough of the existential student films that nobody but yourself gives a **** about, give me a rousing epic.

Yeah, we seriously need some Epic Irish movies!! It's so much to choose from as well.

shruikan2553

I see no reason for me to attempt to enjoy or take part in something just because of heritage or culture. If I enjoy or like something it will be of interest and I'll take part in. Some of that may be part of Irish heritage, some of it could be English or even Asian.

Things change all of the time. Parts of heritage and culture are lost, new things are brought in.

Hans Bricks

InTheTrees wrote: »

The new name for The Pale is the Commuter Belt.

:rolleyes:

Pedantic much ?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Pedantic much ?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's not even pedantic because he's not right.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for mentioning this and I appreciate your question (and the frustration that may lie behind it).

When I decided to allow posters to discuss their own views of 'heritage' (and to use the poll accordingly), I was aware that it might look lazy of me not to use a definition of 'heritage' myself. Maybe that was part of it. However, I thought that allowing people to make what they would of a term that has unfortunately become rather fuzzy might also be useful: when a word is no longer generally understood in a strictly defined sense, one needs to know what people make of it.

Therin lies the problem: how can I tell you whether or not I'm proud of it when I'm not entirely sure what it is?

I understand 'heritage' to be a very broad term, but it ultimately concerns that which we inherit: whether by being taught (implicitly or explicitly; by parents, grandparents, etc, or in our formal education system) or by learning what was the heritage of our ancestors (reclaiming it, to an extent). In my original post, I mentioned different kinds of heritage: Irish Catholic, natural, political. There are others, of course...though there's probably debate on where to draw the line between certain kinds of 'shared history' and heritage.

I tend to take umbrage at the idea of "education" considering I'm from an era when it was used as a tool to ram my heritage into me. Neither my paretns nor grandparents - loveing people for the most part - never really had a strong sense of heritage either, so I grew up wondering why exactly I was supposed to be blindly proud of something I was completely unable to relate to.

Interesting that you use the word "catholic" as part of irish heritage. Which it is, but most people would say that being catholic means nothing to them whereas beign Irish does. For me, there is no difference between the two in terms of heritage.

Eramen

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'm part of Generation X, tbh, the whole Irish heritage begosh and begorrah, Irish language, dreary depressing poetry, etc crap means nothing to me, never has done. For me being Irish is an accident of birth, nothing more. I'm not knocking other people's views but being born on an island in the Atlantic isn't really an achievement.

Learning to love is the achievement. It starts with who/we all are. Anything else is failure.

“Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart.”

― Marcus Aurelius, (Roman Emperor)

Pumpkinseeds

Eramen wrote: »

Learning to love is the achievement. It starts with who/we are. Anything else is failure.

“Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart.”

― Marcus Aurelius, (Roman Emperor)

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Pumpkinseeds

Medracic wrote: »

Reread it when you finish puberty.

Oh please, someone disagrees with you so you adopt a patronising tone. The poster didn't even have an original thought of their own to post so settled for a cut and paste quote from a Roman emperor. Sounds like the type of nonsense spouted by fans of Deepak Chopra who cling desperately to the achievements of others to compensate for their own lack of achievement.

Eramen

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

You and others are suffering from what Durkheim termed the Anomie, which is the breakage of social bonds between individual and community. Naturally this leads to an absence of common morality and identities, a very negative proposition. Hence today we are seeing the sub-cultures and the political 'filling' this void in the person as they restlessly seek an identity and world-story in which to find belonging.

Though for most, nationality, culture, history and family still plays an important role.

Still if we look at things with a clear mind we can see the past is the only thing that's certain. Thus it's our only means of reliably measuring ourselves through reason to guide our actions in the present.

For this reason I'd argue that for those who want to live well in the here and now, you actually have to love and remember the past, as much as your own personal history. It's the guiding light that culminates in the current moment, a great director that helps to resolve all of life's contradictions.

Remember the present time is short.. and the future doubtful, but the past is entirely ours.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eramen wrote: »

Learning to love is the achievement. It starts with who/we are. Anything else is failure.

“Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart.”

― Marcus Aurelius, (Roman Emperor)

Sounds like something a politician would say, alright.

Iwasfrozen

Medracic wrote: »

Reread it when you finish puberty.

Is this supposed to be an insult? I don't feel obliged to be proud of an accident of birth. I value my self worth based on my own achievements, not the achievements of others and if you can't understand that well then there's no hope for you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eramen wrote: »

You and others are suffering from what Durkheim termed the Anomie, which is the breakage of social bonds between individual and community. Naturally this leads to an absence of common morality and identities, a very negative proposition. Hence today we are seeing the sub-cultures and the political 'filling' this void in the person as they restlessly seek an identity and world-story in which to find belonging.

That's what the chruch says too. But you can go through life making your own decisions regarding morality and stil have a strong identity.

The thing often not pointed out abotu sub-cultures is that they have an identity - an identity that they forged for themsleves, which is an even more powerful thing than something just handed down.

Though for most, nationality, culture, history and family still plays an important role.

Still if we look at things with a clear mind we can see the past is a certainty. Thus it's the only means of reliably measuring ourselves through reason to guide our actions in the present.

For this reason I'd argue that for those who want to live well in the here and now, you actually have to love and remember the past, as much as your own personal history. It's the guiding light that culminates in the current moment.

Because the present time is short.. and the future doubtful.

Like many others, I wouldn't say I love the past and I feel no leser a being for it. I do respect it though - if only because I can point to it with certainty and say that is NOT who I am.

Darkglasses

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Oh please, someone disagrees with you so you adopt a patronising tone. The poster didn't even have an original thought of their own to post so settled for a cut and paste quote from a Roman emperor. Sounds like the type of nonsense spouted by fans of Deepak Chopra who cling desperately to the achievements of others to compensate for their own lack of achievement.

In fairness, you basically cut and paste your post from Dodgeball.

Eramen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Is this supposed to be an insult? I don't feel obliged to be proud of an accident of birth. I value my self worth based on my own achievements, not the achievements of others and if you can't understand that well then there's no hope for you.

But your achievements are based and built upon the achievements of others. To say otherwise is selfish. This is how the concepts and realities of nationality, culture, history were born and are held in great esteem - they represent the shared experience of the group.

We are all members of a team - a great biological, linguistic and cultural empire. So is everyone part of their own distinct group and rendered valuable in this way. I think it's a great thing to be a part of.

However in modern times we live in a 'ME first' culture which recklessly disregards the works of others with a misplaced & selfish sense of false-individuality.

Iwasfrozen

Eramen wrote: »

You and others are suffering from what Durkheim termed the Anomie, which is the breakage of social bonds between individual and community. Naturally this leads to an absence of common morality and identities, a very negative proposition. Hence today we are seeing the sub-cultures and the political 'filling' this void in the person as they restlessly seek an identity and world-story in which to find belonging.

Though for most, nationality, culture, history and family still plays an important role.

Still if we look at things with a clear mind we can see the past is a certainty. Thus it's the only means of reliably measuring ourselves through reason to guide our actions in the present.

For this reason I'd argue that for those who want to live well in the here and now, you actually have to love and remember the past, as much as your own personal history. It's the guiding light that culminates in the current moment.

Remember the present time is short.. and the future doubtful, but the past is entirely ours.

This time I threw up.

Seriously listen to yourself, history is important to help us understand our society today and perceive historical trends. But a society which only concentrates on the past and is not open to outside evolution and progression will never advance.

I don't even know what you're supposed to be arguing for tbh.