Civil rights & Gardai

chewed

I often come across articles and videos from the States about Police brutality and bullying. Civilians there are encouraged to use their phones to record encounters with the police and told that they don't have to give any details to them when stopped, unless they're being detained for a specific reason.

What is the situation in Ireland with regards to civilian's rights and the Gardai? Do we have the right to record them and the right to withhold information?

Is there anywhere on the web that has information on our civil rights?

kneemos

Name and address I think.

chewed

But if you're not being detained or under any suspicion, do you have the right not to say anything?

biko

There is a Legal Discussion forum and a Emergency Services forum, both should be able to give you definite answers.


Having said that - don't say nuttin' man! Fight tha powa!!

Dravokivich

If you don't comply with their request they'll detain you under a public order offence. Bit of a stupid thing to get yourself locked up for.

In reference to recording them, I don't think there's anything that can be charged against someone for it. The only thing is the recordings are never of the full encounter.

chewed wrote: »

But if you're not being detained or under any suspicion, do you have the right not to say anything?

You can't incriminate yourself by identifying yourself.

jimmii

You have a right to your privacy. However, in some situations, the Gardaí can ask for personal information such as your name and address. Under public order laws, it is an offence if you fail to give your name and address when a Garda asks for it.

http://www.iccl.ie/garda%C3%AD-2.html

First thing that popped up on Google.

biko

Everyone's so concerned with civil rights they forget about civil obligations.

SEPT 23 1989

once you are not a blaggard you have nothing to worry about

HamsterFace

I long for the day when someone asks what their civil responsibilities are

kneemos

Non cooperation creates suspicion.
If you have something to hide best to cooperate,if you have nothing to hide you're just being a dick.

The Backwards Man

This citizen's information pamphlet highlights all your rights and entitlements OP.

lazybones32

the shell to sea protestors compiled a very interesting factsheet on civilian rights when dealing with gardai - based in law. i'd link it - despite hating linking - but i'm not on my laptop... as evidenced by my lack of caps.

they wrote it after seeing how sparse and vague citizens information was on the subject

lazybones32

the shell to sea protestors compiled a very interesting factsheet on civilian rights when dealing with gardai - based in law. i'd link it - despite hating linking - but i'm not on my laptop... as evidenced by my lack of caps.

they wrote it after seeing how sparse and vague citizens information was on the subject

bjork

You have rights alright,

but don't be suprised if the recording equipment accidentally gets smashed in to the nearest wall after your head, accidentally of course

Dramatik

He hit me with his truncheon,
Which made the situation harder,
I had to hit one,
So I picked the Bán Garda...

seamus

Worth noting that the rules change completely if you're using any kind of vehicle.

If you're in/on a vehicle and stopped by a Garda (including on a bicycle), you are required to supply a name and address when asked. You don't have to be stopped for any specific reason, it is an offence to refuse to identify yourself.

chewed

seamus wrote: »

Worth noting that the rules change completely if you're using any kind of vehicle.

If you're in/on a vehicle and stopped by a Garda (including on a bicycle), you are required to supply a name and address when asked. You don't have to be stopped for any specific reason, it is an offence to refuse to identify yourself.

Fair enough, but if they start asking where you're going or coming from, do you then have a right to refuse to answer?

catallus

If a guard is asking one where one is coming from or going to surely the best and most responsible approach is to tell them?

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

If you have something to hide, well then.......

Witcher

chewed wrote: »

Fair enough, but if they start asking where you're going or coming from, do you then have a right to refuse to answer?

Generally if a Garda asks that they're seeing if they can smell drink on your breath, if you can string a sentence together etc....they don't give a bollocks where you're going.

Refuse if you want, either they'll get enough info in the course of your refusal to determine you haven't been drinking or they'll put you on the breathalyser.

chewed

Strider wrote: »

Generally if a Garda asks that they're seeing if they can smell drink on your breath, if you can string a sentence together etc....they don't give a bollocks where you're going.

Refuse if you want, either they'll get enough info in the course of your refusal to determine you haven't been drinking or they'll put you on the breathalyser.

if they suspect that you're over the limit then they should breathaliyse you! It doesn't matter if they smell drink or not. It's not illegal to drink alcohol and drive, it's illegal to be over the limit!

seamus

chewed wrote: »

if they suspect that you're over the limit then they should breathaliyse you! It doesn't matter if they smell drink or not. It's not illegal to drink alcohol and drive, it's illegal to be over the limit!

What if they're not carrying a breathalyser?

chewed

catallus wrote: »

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

I'm sick of that phrase! It doesn't matter if you've nothing to hide! You still have the right to your own privacy!

Valetta

chewed wrote: »

I'm sick of that phrase! It doesn't matter if you've nothing to hide! You still have the right to your own privacy!

In my opinion the best way to keep your privacy is to co-operate fully and be on your merry way.

Not much privacy in stations these days.

Mint Aero

Whatever about the scary states, people here don't need to be acting like that. My typical run in with a garda if ever involves pleasantries and being respectful towards the authority. I find that far more normal than reciting some nonsense about your rights and withholding your details.

jimgoose

You have the right to remain unconscious.

padd b1975

A Garda has no powers unless he's wearing his hat.

Any barstool lawyer will tell you that....

seamus

chewed wrote: »

I'm sick of that phrase! It doesn't matter if you've nothing to hide! You still have the right to your own privacy!

I agree in principle. However, you don't exist in a silo. You're a member of a wider society and in order to function in that society you need to be a reasonable person.

Asking where someone is coming from or going to, is a reasonable question. Unless you're constantly being stopped by the same Garda, or you feel that you're being unfairly victimised, then you're not serving any reasonable purpose by being belligerent because you have decided that you need to maintain your privacy at all costs, even where there is no reason to.

Gardai do not routinely stop people and ask them questions because they feel like it. They do it for a reason. If you automatically make an assumption that all Gardai are on a power trip and are asking you questions just to piss you off, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - Gardai will start asking asking you questions because you're being suspicious and belligerent.

If you ask politely, "May I ask why I've been stopped, Garda?", you might actually get a reasonable response.

For example, I got stopped one night on the N81. Garda popped his head in the window, asked my name, asked where I was going, where I was coming from, and if I often drove that route. Now, I could have been an asshole about it, spouted about my rights and my privacy and then enjoyed a nice 30 minute chat at the side of the road while the Gardai found a few things wrong with my car.
Instead I told him. Why was he asking? Because there had been a robbery in that location at that time a week beforehand and he wanted to know if anyone had seen anything suspicious.

A very reasonable cause for asking me those questions, and because I answered his reasonable questions, I went merrily on my way.

Lmklad

Be careful what you record. The Garda is entitled to seize any recording of a crime as it is evidence. This could (rarely happens) include your phone. Gardai themselves have been told not to take pictures of crime scenes on their phones as theirs can be taken too.

Cee-Jay-Cee

If you've done nothing wrong but still feel the need to refuse to give your nane and record the encounter then you desetve to be arrested, taken to the stations c held until your identity has been established.

BlaasForRafa

“Where do I stand? I’ll tell you where I stand. I stand four-square for justice. I stand for discipline , good order and the rigid application of the law – and Grud help any limp-wrist liberals who say different. The people, they know where I stand. They need rules to live by – I provide them. They break the rules, I break them. That’s the way it works. The people like it that way. They need to know where they stand. Rights? Sure ~I’m all for rights. But not at the expense of order”

NotASheeple

biko wrote: »

Everyone's so concerned with civil rights they forget about civil obligations.

And on the flip side of the coin, some Gardaí get so overwhelmed with their power tripping fascist tendencies. That they forget they have a duty of care to the public. Or to put it another way, the very people who pay their wages.

qt3.14

NotASheeple wrote: »

And on the flip side of the coin, some Gardaí get so overwhelmed with their power tripping fascist tendencies. That they forget they have a duty of care to the public. Or to put it another way, the very people who pay their wages.

A couple of cents of your taxes goes towards any individual gardais wages. If that was all you were paying me and you kept bringing it up as if it was somehow meaningful I'd probably treat you with a bit of contempt too.

conorh91

NotASheeple wrote: »

And on the flip side of the coin, some Gardaí get so overwhelmed with their power tripping fascist tendencies. That they forget they have a duty of care to the public. Or to put it another way, the very people who pay their wages.

Workers pay about 0.82% of their taxes towards Garda salaries.

That means a single person, on a gross salary of €40k per annum, pays €50 per year directly towards Garda wages.

Meanwhile... unemployment-related payments are six times that amount.

I think we know which is better value-for-money...

NotASheeple

qt3.14 wrote: »

A couple of cents of your taxes goes towards any individual gardais wages. If that was all you were paying me and you kept bringing it up as if it was somehow meaningful I'd probably treat you with a bit of contempt too.

You like some Gardaí seem to miss the point, your concern is not how much a particular citizen pays you. But rather, to ensure you provide a high quality & professional service to the very citizens you seem to hold in contempt. The root of the problem is, some members seem less concerned with serving the public and more concern with serving their organisations fiefdom.

Dawn Rider

padd b1975 wrote: »

A Garda has no powers unless he's wearing his hat.

This is true and a good way of getting off a charge in court. British police had those tall helmet's to store their legal notes and in doing so were 'acting under proper authority'. It's also why you'll sometimes hear of a person arrested 'under' the misuse of drugs act etc.
With radios and mobile phones they don't need to carry such large files and most UK cops wear caps with the Royal seal inside to state that they're acting under the authority of the crown. It's the same for the Irish Guards with the harp stamp inside their caps.

The press don't report the amount of people who get off with that defence because there must be a conspiracy of silence or something...

MarkAnthony

I was driving along the other night; there was a guard in the road with his hand up. I thought he's never going to be strong enough.

Anyway after he bounced off the bonnet he picked himself up and asked if I had a police record. I told him I had walking on the moon.



I'll get my coat.

Incidentally that story is about as true as any of the Freeman bollocks you're going to get about hats and such.

Dawn Rider

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I was driving along the other night; there was a guard in the road with his hand up. I thought he's never going to be strong enough.

Anyway after he bounced off the bonnet he picked himself up and asked if I had a police record. I told him I had walking on the moon.



I'll get my coat.

Incidentally that story is about as true as any of the Freeman bollocks you're going to get about hats and such.

Shhh...