All Grain Beer

boboboland

Did an all grain ale at the end of January opened my first bottle today and i can safely say i will never brew a beer kit again. The difference in taste is unbelievable. Does everybody feel this way or can u get the same result from kits?

oblivious

Welcome to the obsession

macnug

I've yet to do an all grain but I got that from extract brewing. never really enjoyed the kits and I was about to give up on homebrewing before giving extract a go with a stock pot on a hob. Way way better than kits. In fact I've always wondered if kits didn't exist would more people be into homebrew, the amount of people that give kits a go then give up.

I'm going to get a biab kit later in the year but I don't know if all grain will be worth the extra effort of doing it for every brew. Is there anyone here that does both? Is there much of a difference?

finatron

I had read so many bad things about kit brews I didn't even try them. First home brew I did was all grain biab and was about a year and a half ago.
I've made alot of mistakes but haven't made anything worse than what's available in my local.
I'm going to up grade soon 3 kettle all grain system I'm building myself
. I love imperial style beers so biab is not ideal but I think it's the best way to start homebrewing .

oblivious

finatron wrote: »

I had read so many bad things about kit brews I didn't even try them. First home brew I did was all grain biab and was about a year and a half ago.

Sanitisation is what usually kills it for people, Some of those all malt kits produce not bad beer

MrGee

100% agree, i was brewing extract up to christmas time, got a peco boiler and am brewing in a bag all grain. All grain has a better fresher flavour then extract. Ive made 4 batches since christmas and each one of them was superb.

boboboland

macnug wrote: »

I'm going to get a biab kit later in the year but I don't know if all grain will be worth the extra effort of doing it for every brew. Is there anyone here that does both? Is there much of a difference?

I dont know about extract kits but it took me about 7 hours start to finish for the all grain my first time and it was definitely worth it. Unbelievable Results.

oblivious

boboboland wrote: »

I dont know about extract kits but it took me about 7 hours start to finish for the all grain my first time and it was definitely worth it. Unbelievable Results.

An in thing and a little of pre prep, you can get that down to 4 ish

Have grain weighed out, water volumes ready an carbonate levels adjusted and FV sanitised they night before

boboboland

oblivious wrote: »

An in thing and a little of pre prep, you can get that down to 4 ish

how can u manage to get it down that low?

lee_baby_simms

boboboland wrote: »

Did an all grain ale at the end of January opened my first bottle today and i can safely say i will never brew a beer kit again. The difference in taste is unbelievable. Does everybody feel this way or can u get the same result from kits?

Was thinking the exact same thing the other day...just bought a BIAB kit.

Mesrine65

I use one of these for all grain, liberated it from my granda's shed & cleaned it up, works a treat.

finatron

boboboland wrote: »

how can u manage to get it down that low?

Biab is 5 hours tops with my set up. I invested in a gas burner and 33L brew kettel.
I pre heat a gallon of water and add the remaining gradually. Mash is 75mins and takes about 30 mins to get the boil up to temp. 1 hour boil and worth chiller has it cooled in 30-40 mins. I've also left it once or twice to cool by itself and it's worked fine.

matt007

From Extract to partial grain and finally onto all grain.
I buy the grain by the sack..
Never go back. It is also cheaper per pint.

Hingo

Not to mention the added satisfaction of making a top quality beer (well sometimes :P ) and knowing this is something you've brought from all the way from the grain to the glass.

In saying that I wouldn't turn my nose up at some of the kits out there, especially the more recent newer brands to the market, quality has come a long way.
Sure you could argue that one could make the same beer with a good AG recipe but for those who might fancy a making a quick kit on the side of their AG brewday or that, theres still some decent stuff out there.

macnug

For all you all grain/biab brewers our there, minches (the exclusive suppliers of malt to Guinness as far as I remember) are now supplying their grain through the homebrew company. Great price too. Seriously need to get into all grain!

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/irish-pale-ale-malt-crushed-25kg-36-ebc-minch-p-2807.html

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/irish-pale-ale-malt-crushed-1kg-36-ebc-minch-p-2810.html

oblivious

I got the first bag

finatron

macnug wrote: »

For all you all grain/biab brewers our there, minches (the exclusive suppliers of malt to Guinness as far as I remember) are now supplying their grain through the homebrew company. Great price too. Seriously need to get into all grain!

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/irish-pale-ale-malt-crushed-25kg-36-ebc-minch-p-2807.html

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/irish-pale-ale-malt-crushed-1kg-36-ebc-minch-p-2810.html

Ya great price I got some to try last week I've and oatmeal stout in mind for it

ian_m

Would I be correct in presuming that the kits from HBC come with uncrushed grains? Can you get pre-crushed kits?

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/beercider-kits-hbc-full-extract-kits-23lts-c-1_216.html

boboboland

ian_m wrote: »

Would I be correct in presuming that the kits from HBC come with uncrushed grains? Can you get pre-crushed kits?

You can get crushed grain from them I know that for a fact I'd say all the kits are pre crushed definitely looks like it from the pic anyway. Be no harm ring em an see Just in case. I get all grain kits from them that are pre crushed.

madhatter76

I made a few of them and like them. They are crushed, come with a little grain bag and almost everything you need, ready to go.

Only thing I found out is to make only 20-21 L instead of 23. I found them to be a bit too thin on 23L.

sharingan

macnug wrote: »

I'm going to get a biab kit later in the year but I don't know if all grain will be worth the extra effort of doing it for every brew. Is there anyone here that does both? Is there much of a difference?

Extract at its worst has can have a tang to it. At its best, it can have a one-dimensional malt character. Grain preserves what the extraction process leaves behind.

All grain improves further when you are doing malty styles also. And fresh grain matters also.

lee_baby_simms

I'm making the move to all grain at the moment. Mottly Brew in Glasnevin do grains now. You can email him a recipe and he'll crush it and bag it for you along with hops, yeast and Irish moss. I picked one up on Tuesday. Pale ale. €18

I also have an all grain Saison kit from HBC that I have to brew. That was €20.

The BIAB kit from HBC is great value. €80 quid for boiler, wort chiller, bag and free all grain kit.

Looking forward to the process. I'll report back here with results from both kits when I get to drink them. *rubs hands*

lee_baby_simms

ian_m wrote: »

Would I be correct in presuming that the kits from HBC come with uncrushed grains? Can you get pre-crushed kits?

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/beercider-kits-hbc-full-extract-kits-23lts-c-1_216.html

They're crushed. Mine was anyway.

macnug

sharingan wrote: »

Extract at its worst has can have a tang to it. At its best, it can have a one-dimensional malt character. Grain preserves what the extraction process leaves behind.

All grain improves further when you are doing malty styles also. And fresh grain matters also.

That's the thing though, I don't get the twang from dme that I used to get from kits. Agree about the malt character though, a lot of my beers have a dryness to it.

loyatemu

macnug wrote: »

That's the thing though, I don't get the twang from dme that I used to get from kits. Agree about the malt character though, a lot of my beers have a dryness to it.

I've done 3 brews with DME now and no twang off any of them. There was some degree of twang from every kit that I did (less so on the more expensive all malt kits). Steeping grains should provide some additional malt character, no?

macnug

loyatemu wrote: »

I've done 3 brews with DME now and no twang off any of them. There was some degree of twang from every kit that I did (less so on the more expensive all malt kits). Steeping grains should provide some additional malt character, no?

Yea I think twang seems to come from LME more so than DME from my experience. I think its a personal thing though, some people are fine with drinking kits and dont taste any twang, some people can only drink AG and can taste twang from all extract beers and some people cant drink homebrew at all. I personally never felt I got much from the specialty grains alone.

The extract beers I do seem ok to me, I think the dryness may come from the fact I use extra-light or light DME and use the grains for colour. In saying that, im not in a homebrew club so I never really get any objective, impartial reviews of my beers.

craiclad

How do you all treat your water for all grain? I'm living in Dublin and thinking about getting into biab since I have all the necessary materials. Only thing holding me back now is the water chemistry.

oblivious

craiclad wrote: »

How do you all treat your water for all grain? I'm living in Dublin and thinking about getting into biab since I have all the necessary materials. Only thing holding me back now is the water chemistry.

I am in west Dublin on the leixlip water. Liffey water in Wicklow is soft, but as it flows though Kildare it becomes hard. So my water is hard and hardness is a seasonal venerable dependent on how much water is flow (it maybe be inversely related to flow).

I use and find Brun water (excel sheet) very useful. it a get excel sheet that allow you to accurately adjust your water (as long as you know its original composition)

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Also get a good (mg) digital scales for accurate measurement of salts

My stock water profile for hoppy beers is below. For dark beer such as porter I adjust the calcium to at around 70ppm for good yeast health with some gypsum. Which will also raise the sulphate level too . I have highish bicarbonate so there no need for me to adjust it.

Calcium 120
Sulfate (SO4) 160
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 20-50 (depending on seasonal changes and adjusted with CRS soultion http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm)

Magnesium (Mg) 7.0
Sodium (Na) 5.0
Chloride (Cl) 15.0


The brun water has a number of inbuilt water profile that can used. Pale ale (Burton) ,Dublin and a number of German and Belgian profiles too.

finatron

All good information on the water content but for me I just stopped worrying about it a long time ago.
Different beers are better with different water but beer has been brewed for a long time with out anyone knowing the makeup of the water.
By default an area would have become know for a certain type of beer and this will happen with your homebrew the beer you like the best suites the water you have

oblivious

finatron wrote: »

All good information on the water content but for me I just stopped worrying about it a long time ago.
Different beers are better with different water but beer has been brewed for a long time with out anyone knowing the makeup of the water.
By default an area would have become know for a certain type of beer and this will happen with your homebrew the beer you like the best suites the water you have

All the salt adjustments do is a fine tune the brewing proccess. As you have found, if the water is good you will brew good beer

craiclad

oblivious wrote: »

All the salt adjustments do is a fine tune the brewing proccess. As you have found, if the water is good you will brew good beer

So does this mean I shouldn't worry about ruining beer with chlorinated water?

finatron

No don't worry about it just get brewing if you get the all grain kits from homebrewing company you cant really go wrong. The more you make the better your beer will get

slayerking

craiclad wrote: »

So does this mean I shouldn't worry about ruining beer with chlorinated water?

No don't worry about it just get brewing if you get the all grain kits from homebrewing company you cant really go wrong. The more you make the better your beer will get

OR just treat your brewing water with campden tablets?

craiclad

slayerking wrote: »

OR just treat your brewing water with campden tablets?

Right, I guess my question was a little vague.

Does Irish water contain such a significant amount of chlorine/chloramine that it would be necessary to treat the water with campden tablets? Or do people have good results without doing this?

I've been having trouble finding specific information about the water in my area, and it seems to change from month to month as well according to what others have been saying. Since I'm such a new brewer I'm considering just going ahead without treating my water if doing so isn't going to ruin my beer. Once I have all of the other variables down, then I can start fiddling around with water chemistry and really dial it in.

Edit: That is of course if I can do so without worrying about ruining my beer with chlorine or some other chemicals. IF there is some vital adjustment I need to make, I will of course make it...

Mesrine65

craiclad wrote: »

I've been having trouble finding specific information about the water in my area, and it seems to change from month to month as well according to what others have been saying.

Check the drinking water statistics on the website for the local authority in your area, monthly reports are submitted & are available to peruse.

craiclad

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Check the drinking water statistics on the website for the local authority in your area, monthly reports are submitted & are available to peruse.

I've been searching around, but haven't been able to find all that much useful info... Is this the sort of thing you mean? Or is there a more precise resource for the quality of water in your (or my) area?

The one that I linked only mentions if there is an incident whereby the limits are exceeded, but doesn't give us any information about the actual levels of each chemical or the p.h. of the water. It also doesn't seem to tell me if the water is chlorinated, but only that the colour of water might indicate a problem with water in areas where the water is chlorinated... I'm sorry if it seems like I'm asking you guys to hold my hand through this, just having a little trouble pulling up the info that I think I need.

Do you use a more specific resource for your water?

oblivious

craiclad wrote: »

So does this mean I shouldn't worry about ruining beer with chlorinated water?

As far as I am awear all the chlorine added to irish water is volatile. Let the brewing water stand over night until covered it will be fine. I have never had a issue

craiclad

oblivious wrote: »

As far as I am awear all the chlorine added to irish water is volatile. Let the brewing water stand over night until covered it will be fine. I have never had a issue

So I can cover the water while it stands? I was thinking of doing something similar but was afraid of dust and hair etc getting in and making its way into the brew.

finatron

Right now the make up of the water is Notting to worry about you have plenty of other stuff you can screw up while actually brewing your beer.