What do you hope/expect your old age to look like?

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I happened across this article earlier today. It's about a photographer documenting the lives of women in their 80s and 90s, who live alone, in New York City.

Immerman eventually introduced Monteiro to Claire Gottfried and Molly Kanner, both of whom agreed to let the photographer and her camera into their lives. A fellow resident at Immerman's co-op -- Sonia Goldstein -- joined the project too. In contrast to Monteiro's grandmother, Immerman and the other widows and single women enjoy days full of activities and agendas packed with group gatherings. Intrigued by the independence these women demonstrated, Monteiro attempted to capture the sense of adventure they reserve for each day and each activity, from gazing at masterpieces at the Whitney to playing bridge with other seniors to enjoying a glass of wine before a trip to the theater.

There are a few lovely shots in it (I particularly like the make-up, and the dresses drying over the bath). And it got me thinking for a number of reasons. Both my grandmothers are this age and still living alone and independently. They have been widowed for decades. Their days closely resemble these women's. They are lucky to both live in cities, with lots going on. They differ from these ladies in that they still see a lot of us, their families - every day through Whatsapp, Facetime, Facebook, and in person a few times a week. They both have five children, all married, and over a dozen grandchildren and greatgrandchildren. Many of the family live abroad or far away, but there are so many of us that there are still a lot nearby, and we can between us make sure that the grandmothers get a lot of attention, without it overwhelming just a couple of people.

It's not all roses. In the last five years especially, their closest friends and siblings have died. Their health is deteriorating. One can no longer travel abroad, the other cannot handle crowded places or too much physical activity (this is particularly sad as up until just a few years ago she swam or walked miles every day).

But overall, they are very lucky and happy women. Their lives have been full and their days still are. The losses of my grandfathers hit them both hard (one in particular was in her early forties with five children still in education and it was very hard and emotional for many years) but they rebounded.

Having them both still alive and close to me, I think quite a bit about what I want from life when I am their age. Obviously, this is all dependent upon health - being as lucky as they are and the women in the photographs are, to still be physically and mentally capable of getting about. But advances in modern medicine mean that most of us first world women, if we look after ourselves, have a pretty good shot at making it to 80 in reasonably good nick.

I think I'd be good at living alone. I have rarely had to do it, I like housemates and met my husband pretty young. But I enjoyed it and when my children are destroying my clean house like a hurricane I often think how much I'll like it when I'm the only one there to make a mess!

Having said that (and this is going to maybe sound a bit calculated or strange, but I can't think of a better way to put it) I've always thought that one of the biggest attractions, to me, of having children is the prospect of having family in old age. Now I know, it isn't a guarantee. It can't be guaranteed. There are plenty of old people whose children never speak to them. Maybe my kids won't want to have kids of their own - that's fine. But usually most families get on pretty well, and it's fairly likely I will have grandchildren. I'd love that relationship. And that dynamic. I'd never expect like daily contact or to live with them or anything. I'd be happy being whatsapped some photos every now and then and taking them out to the theatre.

I don't know if I'm putting things off until retirement. I'm not good at deferring, if there's something I want I like to start trying to get it immediately or I just get stressed out. My grandmothers have learned basic computing, French, flower arranging, etc over the last twenty years. I could see myself flower arranging.

What do you hope/expect your old age to look like? The Golden Girls? Would you cope with being a widow? The odds are good, especially if your other half is male and even a little bit older than you, that we will be on our own for at least a few years at the end. My only non-negotiable is that I'd better have a hoverboard by the time I get to 80.

MrWalsh

I don't have any children and sometimes do wonder what will happen when I get old.

I've lived alone and liked it. I'd like to have a pet but I'd be worried what'd happen my pet if I died. I also like the idea of a retirement village or assisted living but I don't know anywhere near me that does it and maybe I couldn't afford it?

I've had some orthopedic problems in youth that will probably bite me in old age so I might be pretty bockety, I already am quite a bit bockety!

I'd say I'd be happy to have some social activities, the gym, lunch with friends, enjoy nature etc...

It does worry me that I might be frail and alone and maybe not able to take care of basic needs like staying clean, going food shopping, making food.

Maybe I'll take up smoking and drinking too much and wear a crazy purple hat to things and be some kind of eccentric mildly crazy old lady?

meeeeh

I don't know. Both of my grandmothers outlived their husbands and lived alone, I think one was quite relieved when grand father died. He was a sort of functioning alcoholic who wasn't exactly violent drunk but he was pain in the arse. They were both active but one of them lost sight and was fairly miserable towards the end. I think something died in her when she couldn't garden anymore. Happiness in old age strongly depends on external factors and miserable old age is just as likely as a happy one. And there is f all you can do. Mostly I just hope that I won't be dying slowly and painfully and be dependent on the kindness of others.

seventeen sheep

It's very hard to imagine! Of my grandparents, three of four of them died quite young, before I was old enough to know them. The fourth was in very ill health the last couple of decades of her life, very reliant on her grown children for everything, and besides which she was very old-fashioned and set in her ways - even if it weren't for her ill health, I imagine she'd have chosen to stay at home in front of the fire rather than travelling or learning new skills. So basically I've never really been around any "active" retired people.

I'd love to think I'll have financial security, and a home. I'm turning thirty this year, with no savings and no mortgage. It's something I have to admit I'm starting to worry about. I have one child, and would hope to have more within the next few years, but that pretty much kills any hope of saving for a deposit on a house. I hate the idea of ending up reliant on my children, of ending up in a granny flat in their back garden or something!

Other than that, I like to think I'd travel, and learn new skills. Of course that'll depend on how lucky I am with my health. It's hard to imagine how you'd manage to fill all your time with no job and no children to mind. Maybe I'd be a childminder for my grandkids. If I have any.

If I did end up living alone ... I'm not sure how I'd cope, really. I'd have been fine with living on my own in my twenties, but I don't like the idea of knocking around a big empty house on my own as a vulnerable old person. And I can't imagine getting any joy out of cooking every meal for just one person. I don't know, maybe I'd move into one of those retirement villages like you see in American movies. Somewhere I'd have my own little bit of space, but where people would check in on me regularly ... reduce the chances of my dead body being eaten by my cats, you know!

Weirdly enough I don't mind the idea of getting older. I just hope I'm lucky enough not to have any major health issues. It's the ideal really isn't it, to live a long healthy and active life, and then to die blissfully unaware in your sleep.

LenaClaire

My mom is older and divorced, she plans on working full time until she is 70 and then part time later, just to keep busy. She has a ton of lady friends who are within a 15 year range up and down and they go to lunch, and the theater and stuff.

I'd like to think I would be like that if my husband passed before me. My only big fear is that two of my grandparent's had Alzheimer's and it is hereditary. I do not want to go that way

MrWalsh

seventeen sheep wrote: »

It's hard to imagine how you'd manage to fill all your time with no job and no children to mind.

This is the one thing I'd have absolutely no worries about. I literally never ever have enough time to follow all my interests or do all the things I like doing. I was redundant for 2 years and I studied, spent loads of time outside, walking, hobbies, watching movies, reading, swimming, going to the gym, trying new recipes, other hobbies, exploring, catching up with old friends....and I still never ever had enough time to do all the things I'm interested in!!

They can put that on my headstone. "She had too many interests and never had enough time to follow all of them"

I'm hoping to have a nice long retirement to make a dent in them!

beks101

I've literally never thought about it until right this minute. It's a strange and in a sense, unsettling thought.

I never knew any of my grandparents and haven't had too many examples of old age in my life. Watching my parents get on in recent years is a process that, despite them both being happy, healthy, productive (with a better social life than me!) and very much on the lower spectrum of 'old age', makes me a bit sad and with a tendency to worry. Two of us live overseas and my older sister is virtually in their full time care due to a profound disability, and I feel it's too much for them to have to deal with. It's not fair, but then such is life.

To be honest I'm the kind of person who has trouble projecting into next week, never mind a decade or four decades ahead. My twenties have been flighty, I've moved around, done things and become someone I couldn't quite have predicted if I had tried to crystal-ball myself ten years ago. I've also learned quite harshly that tomorrow isn't promised to any of us.

I would hope that I'd be surrounded by love and not be too lonely. Ideally I guess, family would be a key part of my life and I'd have a decent chunk of pension and retirement savings to be able to travel and develop some hobbies. I'd like to be fit and healthy. I grew up with friends whose grandparents were the focal part of their family lives - truly celebrated, adored people whose children and grandchildren hung on their every word. They babysat, my friends would count down the days before their arrival. I'd like that.

But if I don't have family and it doesn't pan out that way, I'll be grand. I'm good on my own. Sometimes better on my own than when I'm answerable to lots of people. If there's one thing I've learned in my (almost) three decades here, it's that. I'll spend my days knitting, baking and eating cake and listening to classical music

Novella

I started to think about being old when my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. My mam retired from her job to be his full-time carer. Both of my parents are in their early fifties so in my opinion, they're actually pretty young. The thing is though, my dad seems old. He has epilepsy, had a heart attack last year and he's dependent on other people for almost everything at this stage.

I had always imagined that when my brother and I were in our twenties, our parents would have a great time. I imagined them traveling the world together. They always loved to go on holidays. It made me sad when I realised that my dad won't have that time in his life. He worked so hard for years and years for his family and I looked forward to him experiencing college graduations and weddings and the births of his grandchildren. I thought that maybe we could make it all worthwhile for him.

I got married last year, his only daughter, and because he wouldn't have been well enough to walk me down the aisle, I had the teeniest, tiniest wedding - just me and my husband. My brother is going to graduate from college this May and my dad doesn't even remember him but he would have been so proud. I am expecting my first baby, his first grandchild and he won't understand. He would have been just as wonderful of a grandad as he was a dad to me growing up.

So I try not to think about growing old too much anymore. I just hope that I will be happy and healthy enough for be around for my child (or future children) for as long as possible.

beks101

Congratulations on the pregnancy Novella x

Novella

beks101 wrote: »

Congratulations on the pregnancy Novella x

Thanks, beks!

Littlekittylou

I hope I am a writer still writing.

I would LOVE to still be totally independent etc. You never know. I will still be eccentric and batty. I will still be glam.

I think that is the time for doing anything you want to.

Travel or whatever.

I'll marry a man twenty years younger than myself so I will pop off first :-P ..nah I dunno if there will be a man or not. It's not the be all and end all. I will have friends.

I don't smoke or drink. So I will not lose myself to addictions like I see happening to a lot of people. Particularly older people living alone. I think I would like to still be active sporty.

I don't have to do old age hobbies bleh.

TheBeardedLady

I think about this daily because Madrid is absolutely packed full of old people. Very low birth rate here, so Spain has a really old population and people tend to live into their 90s here. You're reminded of what's around the corner everyday here but the old people all seem in great shape for their age and get about and do a lot for themselves independently that perhaps wouldn't be so common elsewhere. The women generally outlive the men but you do see really old couples holding hands quite often (maybe they fell in love later in life in some cases?).

I think the things they have in common are: They don't smoke (though the Spanish smoke a lot, you don't see the really old people smoking), they're not overweight, they eat healthily (Mediterranean diet) at meal times, they live in a hot country, they're fairly active, their public healthcare is good and they have friends.

I'm making mental notes on what I have to do myself to be like them down the line. I definitely want to retire somewhere hot and not live in a city, though. Can't imagine living in NY at that age though (those photos are great btw).

Longevity is not in my genes; my mother died young and my grandmothers didn't live that old though my granny on my dad's side lived old enough for a smoker. But they'd stressful lives by the sounds of it. I think stress really ages you and it's something we take for granted as part of modern living but

If I do reach a grand old age, I want to definitely be an eccentric auld one. Purple hair, bright clothes, red lipstick. I won't have to worry about being judged and I really hope to just say "fcuk it". They have groups here where the elderly can go on holidays together and centres for old people to socialise, which I plan on joining and if they don't exist where I live, I'll start one up. I also plan on being wise as hell and everyone will come to me for a chat and advice. Whatever happens, I plan on not disappearing into the background and being ignored. I plan to keep pushing, learning, fighting...one of my students talked about his 94 year-old mother-in-law who's learning to use an Ipad - that'll be me. I'll make my presence known.

LynnGrace

MrWalsh wrote: »

This is the one thing I'd have absolutely no worries about. I literally never ever have enough time to follow all my interests or do all the things I like doing. I was redundant for 2 years and I studied, spent loads of time outside, walking, hobbies, watching movies, reading, swimming, going to the gym, trying new recipes, other hobbies, exploring, catching up with old friends....and I still never ever had enough time to do all the things I'm interested in!!

They can put that on my headstone. "She had too many interests and never had enough time to follow all of them"

I'm hoping to have a nice long retirement to make a dent in them!

+1 to all of this.
It's not something I've given a lot of thought to. Living alone wouldn't bother me, I've done it, in the past, and it has it's merits. I've seen good example too with female relatives widowed who went on to live full, busy lives and continue to do so, into old age.

eviltwin

I want to be like my mother in law. She's in her 70s and lives life to the full. She's very inspirational. Age is just a number, I will keep on doing what I'm doing once the body and mind are willing.

In some ways I think single women retain there independence longer that women with children purely from necessity. The reason I think this is because last year I had a serious illness and was in and out for appointments, I would see two kinds of older women,..... woman who had let their children take over usually the daughters but on occasion a son talking to the doctors etc., then older women with no children who had to navigate every thing for themselves they seemed to be much more independent and competent than the woman who had come to depend on their children.

Call me Al

While I agree re the independence for longer there comes a point for many people where they do need an advocate. Someone who can speak on their behalf, and this is often brought about as a result of ill-health.
I'd be very nervous of either of my parents being seriously ill in hospital without someone being around to help them or speak up on their behalf and make sure they were treated with respect and dignity, if they weren't in a position to ensure that for themselves.
Nurses may not have time to spend helping my parent eat a full meal or change bedlinen when it needs to be done.
As for me, I dread the idea of having nobody around me or being without my husband with my children far away .I'm a fairly introverted person but I take comfort from having them near. Of course life happens, people emigrate, people die and I would never dream of micromanaging my childrens paths but I would hate to be alone like this, and dependent on the kindness of strangers when I couldn't do the basic functions of living by myself.

I wasn't making any particular point about the older women on their own in a way life had forced them to be self reliant.

Littlekittylou

I think we are under the impression that you can control everything. I have seen from relatives you can't predict what your old age will look like.

I would like to be in a sunnier climb. If I marry I would like to be in peace and tranquility still in love and having sex. If I was a widow I would like to be socially active.

I would still like to be writing or continue being busy. I would like to be learning new things. If I had family I would want to be the granny sending letters or what have you. I would want to do volunteer work. And have animals around me.

It's difficult to predict what you will require healthwise. As we live older and older quantity seems to outweigh quality sometimes.

TheBeardedLady

Nah I'm under no illusion I have control over all of it and am only too aware of the fragility of life but I believe in trying to stay positive about the inevitable and doing everything in my control to help it along. I'm definitely not a fatalist but yes, our health is out of our control to a large degree but there's still plenty you can do to sway the outcome. I'll always hope for the best.

supermouse

This frightens me so much.

I am an only child and I live in NZ. My parents are still at home in Ireland and whilst I try make the journey every 2 years, it is very far. They've both come here but they would never re-locate. My mammy isn’t in the best of health and my daddy is obese, I’m sure facing a heart attack/stroke due to his unhealthy lifestyle. The thoughts of anything happening to them with me at the opposite side of the world terrifies me. However, I adore my life here, it means so much to me and that also breaks my heart when I know deep down I will come back to Ireland to be closer to my parents within the next 5- 10 years. I would HATE to miss out on time with them. They are incredible people and I am very lucky to have them in my life, I need to show it.

I also am facing 30 and have no partner/children. I really hope to have children one day, which would mean the world to me. Whist I would adore to have children and a huge family around me, perhaps my life’s path will take a different direction and that will be just as grand 

I will be a fantastic ‘’auld wan’’. I am active and fit, I will remain active and fit. I will probably live in a community as I adore people but I’ll also be the wagon that throws the house parties and sneaks in younger men in their 50’s I will have financial independence. I will also have at least one dog. I will continue to volunteer my time as much as possible, PROBABLY still in aged care (imagine that, a 90 year old volunteering with the elderly haha) I will travel. Oh, how I will travel.

I will wear taffeta and shoulder pads. God knows, I love a good shoulder detail. I will talk the hind legs off ANYONE who will listen. I will have plenty of friends. I will put myself out there and make friends with everyone and anyone, young and old. I will laugh every day and continue to practice yoga daily.

Heck, why wait 40 years – can I be old now!?

Tigger99

Ok assuming I'll still be around. Fingers crossed

Surrounded by love. Perhaps with a partner, we'll see. Some of the millions of kids I'm going to foster in the future will pop over for a cuppa. There will be many pets, all taken from a pound. Lol probably an assortment of blind one legged dogs.

Still surrounded by stubborn amazing loyal talented loving friends.

Hopefully still with few regrets and a curiosity about life.

Oh and a walk in wardrobe. I'll have me one of those please

strobe

I expect I'll be living on a little plot of land in the countryside in some country or other, having gotten handsomer and handsomer year on year (has to happen to someone eventually surely, why not Zoidberg?), and whiling our days away sitting on the porch as the sun goes down laughing about the funny things our dog family do in the fields in front of us as I feel her up and we get hammered on southern comfort and red lemonade and drop really good quality e.

r93kaey5p2izun

Actually this is something that really worries me. I am fairly sure I'll be single (and I'm happy enough with that). I don't worry about loneliness as I'm a very solitary person but obviously most elderly people need some level of support they can turn to if necessary. I am very worried about how I will manage financially though. How will I afford rent? House sharing past 50 seems difficult enough but nigh on impossible as a pensioner.

Ideally I'd like to live alone with a dog and just enjoy my own interests, with some limited contact from extended family and lots of travel. Living alone would only be possible if I move far from any family supports leaving me totally isolated though, but the alternative housing costs and set up don't seem suitable either.

I earn enough to rent alone now (but would have no savings to fall back on in the future) but am not in a position to get a mortgage (would have very good deposit but work contracts not adequate) or to save up enough to buy outright to secure my future. But even house sharing now doesn't allow me save enough to ensure I can look after appropriate housing costs in future. I would happily continue working part time or whatever but I see lots of relatives now who were relying on doing the same but who are struggling now they can't because of lack of opportunities or unforeseen ill health.

I want to enjoy my life now but at the same time feel I have to be responsible in planning to support myself in retirement. Hard to find the right balance!

Spirogyra

I had heard about how it's normal for old couples to live together in some (possibly Asia or Italy) countries, where one sells their house, and moves in with another couple (presumably owners) and they all help each other out? so maybe I might do that?.

Can't have kids of my own but hopefully the nieces and nephews will drop in occasionally, trying to be nice to them now as I might need them in future

Hopefully I will be still running, or at least walking/running 10K's, no doubt a good deal slower than today, but hopefully I will still be at least present

Hopefully health will hold until late but I know that to a certain extent, it's a lottery.

Amica

I hope I get to be old. My parents and several family members died young so, for me, old age is a luxury I hope to experience. I hope we'll be a happy family - kids and grandkids coming round for Sunday dinner. Hope myself and the hubby will be going strong and still madly in love with a bookshelf full of photo albums of all the great times we had in life. I would like to still travel or holiday and still be intellectually alive!

Tarzana2

Call me Al wrote: »

While I agree re the independence for longer there comes a point for many people where they do need an advocate. Someone who can speak on their behalf, and this is often brought about as a result of ill-health.
I'd be very nervous of either of my parents being seriously ill in hospital without someone being around to help them or speak up on their behalf and make sure they were treated with respect and dignity, if they weren't in a position to ensure that for themselves.

Yes.

I was seriously ill at the age of 23 and had an extended hospital stay. I was surrounded by many elderly patients, coming and going.

During my stay, I questioned and queried and strove for comprehension in all the tests they were carrying out on me, not out of distrust, just to fully understand everything. I probably annoyed them at times, but I didn't care. It's my body and my life and I needed to know.

One thing that struck me while I was there was that the more elderly patients weren't as forceful for whatever reason. Weakness, being a bit doddery, being a bit doped up from meds, perhaps some being a bit confused. And of course, family couldn't be around all the time. So stuff was happening to them and they were frequently in the dark.

For me personally with my condition, there was some arguing between the medical team and the surgical team about my treatment. I made sure I was right in the middle of what was happening, but for some, that might not be so easy!

NI24

I've thought about this quite alot lately because my mother is getting older and she recently went through a short, but serious illness (talk about a portal to the future!) and to be honest I hope I don't make it past 60. I used to work in a retirement home and being an old woman is a pretty miserable existence, generally speaking. It's funny, because the difference between old men and old women is the difference between night and day. There wasn't one bachelor in the entire place and there were dozens of women who were either single or widowed and most had been for several years. The men always had some woman around to take care of them, but about half of the women there die alone, although many have children, but children just aren't dependable for several reasons (mainly because they have their own lives to lead and don't have the time). The women who were married to older men were lonely for much longer and you could always spot them because they were not pleasant to be around. Men just have it so much easier than women in so many regards. Getting older is difficult for everyone, but for women it's practically a death sentence. (come to think of it, it is a death sentence! for everyone!)

And judgmental this may be, but I hope to God I don't get so desperate for attention that I have to dress like a clown. And I don't understand this purple thing people keep talking about? I've never found the color purple to be very attention getting-- no more so than say, green or blue or whatever.

Amica

NI24 wrote: »

I've thought about this quite alot lately because my mother is getting older and she recently went through a short, but serious illness (talk about a portal to the future!) and to be honest I hope I don't make it past 60. I used to work in a retirement home and being an old woman is a pretty miserable existence, generally speaking. It's funny, because the difference between old men and old women is the difference between night and day. There wasn't one bachelor in the entire place and there were dozens of women who were either single or widowed and most had been for several years. The men always had some woman around to take care of them, but about half of the women there die alone, although many have children, but children just aren't dependable for several reasons (mainly because they have their own lives to lead and don't have the time). The women who were married to older men were lonely for much longer and you could always spot them because they were not pleasant to be around. Men just have it so much easier than women in so many regards. Getting older is difficult for everyone, but for women it's practically a death sentence. (come to think of it, it is a death sentence! for everyone!)

And judgmental this may be, but I hope to God I don't get so desperate for attention that I have to dress like a clown. And I don't understand this purple thing people keep talking about? I've never found the color purple to be very attention getting-- no more so than say, green or blue or whatever.

I know that men generally die earlier than women. Do you think that could have accounted for the differences between men and women in the home?

NI24

Amica wrote: »

I know that men generally die earlier than women. Do you think that could have accounted for the differences between men and women in the home?

Yes. This is exactly the reason. And selfishly, I would rather die of say, cancer at aged 55, with my husband holding my hand, than die of the same cancer 30 years later, with no one in the room except a harried nurse waiting for her shift to end.

I'm being facetious here, but you catch my drift.

Amica

Ok well to each their own. I think a lot of people are afraid of being old or just equate old age with helplessness, loneliness and being a burden (which unfortunately is a true representation for a lot of people). My MIL would see it that way too and I think her experiences working in old folks homes shaped that view. But if your work in a home like that you're likely to develop a skewed/biased perspective of what it means to be old because you only see the alone elderly day in day out instead of the elderly who live at home with their spouse and have kids and grandkids visiting etc. It's hard to know what the 'norm' would be...I guess that up until 80, it would be normal to live in your own home and have visiters etc as described above. Once you're in your mid 80's or 90's though, the likelihood of living in a home probably increases greatly (same for bereavement, helplessness, ill health etc)

55 though is incredibly young. My Dad died a few years ago at the age of 49 and a beloved uncle died just before him at 60. They had so much living left to do. Their lives were cut short and the sense of ...I don't know...how unfair it was for them...never left me. Nobody wants to become that version of old - i.e. alone, helpless, sick, and with a mental health problem like Alzheimer's or dementia - myself included, but I am more afraid of not having the chance to experience life. I'd rather take the good and the bad than miss it all

skallywag

Concerning those that die young, I've put quite a bit of thought into the same and have come to the conclusion that the unfairness of it all is carried by those who are left behind to mourn rather than the dead themselves, as being dead is the easy part, getting there through the process of dying perhaps not so ...

lazeedaisy

I don't have children, always pictured my life like an Italian soap wih a massive family, large dining table always full of noise.

I live in hope that when We have no dependant in laws, we will up ship to Spain, and live there.

My parents broke up last year father 50 years together, my 71 year old dad is to be a dad again any day soon, and has cut himself off from all of us.

My mum is happy, healthy and living alone for the first time in her life. She has more time to spend with her 95 year old mum, her dad living to 93, so I expect her to live to a great age and hope she can travel back and forth to us when we ever move.

Siblings have never been close, unless they need anything.

I moved from Dublin to a very rural life, it suits me, and I wonder about the future.

In my case, we invested a lot of time, money, stress trying to have a family for nearly 10 years. Never meant to be, and I do wonder what our purpose is.

We seem to have strong bonds tying us together that not many people have, due to what we ave been through. We are great at living together wth our own interests, I do hope himself lives long,

That's it I think,

McChubbin

I hope to be as fabulous as my 85 year old grandmother- she still goes out galavanting nearly every Saturday night with a naggin of Bacardi smuggled into her handbag. She's fiesty and takes no crap and always speaks her mind.
I plan to be just like her- growing old disgracefully!

NI24

Amica wrote: »

Ok well to each their own. I think a lot of people are afraid of being old or just equate old age with helplessness, loneliness and being a burden (which unfortunately is a true representation for a lot of people). My MIL would see it that way too and I think her experiences working in old folks homes shaped that view. But if your work in a home like that you're likely to develop a skewed/biased perspective of what it means to be old because you only see the alone elderly day in day out instead of the elderly who live at home with their spouse and have kids and grandkids visiting etc. It's hard to know what the 'norm' would be...I guess that up until 80, it would be normal to live in your own home and have visiters etc as described above. Once you're in your mid 80's or 90's though, the likelihood of living in a home probably increases greatly (same for bereavement, helplessness, ill health etc)

55 though is incredibly young. My Dad died a few years ago at the age of 49 and a beloved uncle died just before him at 60. They had so much living left to do. Their lives were cut short and the sense of ...I don't know...how unfair it was for them...never left me. Nobody wants to become that version of old - i.e. alone, helpless, sick, and with a mental health problem like Alzheimer's or dementia - myself included, but I am more afraid of not having the chance to experience life. I'd rather take the good and the bad than miss it all

Oh don't get me wrong, longevity has its place. I tend to flip flop on this issue, so ask me in ten years and I might give a different answer. I suppose spirituality can affect someone's view too. If one believes in an afterlife, then a short life doesn't seem so bad and you're headed towards something better (eat sh*t now, pie in the sky when you die), but if one believes this is all there is, then death can be pretty terrifying. I think I'm one of the few atheists who is not at all afraid of death. As far as I'm concerned, if my life is enjoyable, then it doesn't have to be long--short and sweet is fine by me.

I guess if I had to choose, I would go like my grandmother. She was two years into retirement so she was still on a high, she had only been widowed a few years so the loneliness hadn't gotten too bad, she lived in her own apartment, she had weekly poker nights, etc..... And she was still an incredibly stylish woman.

But even she would admit that she was the exception and not the rule. We'll all be put out to pasture eventually, man or woman; but for women it's much sooner, and often they have to deal with it alone and I don't know if I could handle it. And if you're a childless woman (which is my plan) then things are even more of a challenge. I'm more afraid of getting older than I am of anything else.

TheBeardedLady

NI24 wrote: »

I've thought about this quite alot lately because my mother is getting older and she recently went through a short, but serious illness (talk about a portal to the future!) and to be honest I hope I don't make it past 60. I used to work in a retirement home and being an old woman is a pretty miserable existence, generally speaking. It's funny, because the difference between old men and old women is the difference between night and day. There wasn't one bachelor in the entire place and there were dozens of women who were either single or widowed and most had been for several years. The men always had some woman around to take care of them, but about half of the women there die alone, although many have children, but children just aren't dependable for several reasons (mainly because they have their own lives to lead and don't have the time). The women who were married to older men were lonely for much longer and you could always spot them because they were not pleasant to be around. Men just have it so much easier than women in so many regards. Getting older is difficult for everyone, but for women it's practically a death sentence. (come to think of it, it is a death sentence! for everyone!)

And judgmental this may be, but I hope to God I don't get so desperate for attention that I have to dress like a clown. And I don't understand this purple thing people keep talking about? I've never found the color purple to be very attention getting-- no more so than say, green or blue or whatever.

Well that was a grim read. Thanks for that.

Thank fook I'm surrounded by energetic, fit, fiesty, stylish, colourful (not clownish) and happy old women every single day here who give me hope.

No plans to dress like a clown (the colour purple is hardly clownish) but have no plans to cut my hair into a short unstylish cut and wear beige either.

I'm a generally positive person anyway, so that helps. Obviously not everyone is like that.

TheBeardedLady

It also has to be said that these are very different times to the times of even our mothers', nevermind our grandmothers'. My mother didn't go to university, didn't have the opportunity to travel, didn't go out very often and have the craic with her friends - she was too busy looking after 5 kids and a very "traditional" husband while also working full-time. She was down the very bottom of her list of priorities as was the case with women of her generation with families. Women have more of an opportunity to live life for themselves than they ever did, so I think our old age will be quite different.

NI24

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Well that was a grim read. Thanks for that.

Thank fook I'm surrounded by energetic, fit, fiesty, stylish, colourful (not clownish) and happy old women every single day here who give me hope.

No plans to dress like a clown (the colour purple is hardly clownish) but have no plans to cut my hair into a short unstylish cut and wear beige either.

Um, I didn't say purple clothing was clownish-- in fact I said it was the opposite. But yeah, in my opinion, purple hair and red lipstick are the definition of clownish. I hardly think I'm alone in this.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

It also has to be said that these are very different times to the times of even our mothers', nevermind our grandmothers'. My mother didn't go to university, didn't have the opportunity to travel, didn't go out very often and have the craic with her friends - she was too busy looking after 5 kids and a very "traditional" husband while also working full-time. She was down the very bottom of her list of priorities as was the case with women of her generation with families. Women have more of an opportunity to live life for themselves than they ever did, so I think our old age will be quite different.

But different in what way? Hobbies and interests? We'll all suffer declining health at some point so how will the very end change? And more women than ever before are going child free, so who's going to care for these women (and men, for that matter)? The low birth rate in many modern countries is a serious concern-- with the exception of modern medicine to keep us as pain free as possible, our old age will be more of a challenge than it ever was. And as someone who has to care for an aging parent, it stresses me greatly. I can't bury my head in the sand about this, no matter how hard I try.

MrWalsh

I often think that if I was in a bad way in old age and very miserable with it Id just quietly save the painkillers and take my own life. Am I allowed to say that?

While its nice to dream and with modern medicine people are living a longer healthier old ages, a lot of people do experience arthritis and dementia and other health problems and if you are living solely on the old age pension you wont be well off. On the other had I hate the portrayal of older people as sick, lonely and in poverty because its not live that for a lot of older people.

I like to think of my old age as being mentally and psychical well, being able to live without support or only minor support, having enough money to live the life I want and having the love of my family. I will also get involved with every active retirement group in the area and still be out hill walking.

TheBeardedLady

Um, I didn't say purple clothing was clownish-- in fact I said it was the opposite. But yeah, in my opinion, purple hair and red lipstick are the definition of clownish. I hardly think I'm alone in this.

You're taking what I said very literally - the point I was trying to make was that I'm not taking on the uniform of beige and short hair and disappearing out of view like many older women choose to.

But different in what way? Hobbies and interests? We'll all suffer declining health at some point so how will the very end change? And more women than ever before are going child free, so who's going to care for these women (and men, for that matter)? The low birth rate in many modern countries is a serious concern-- with the exception of modern medicine to keep us as pain free as possible, our old age will be more of a challenge than it ever was. And as someone who has to care for an aging parent, it stresses me greatly. I can't bury my head in the sand about this, no matter how hard I try.

Yes - hobbies and interests and not such a dependency on the husband and children.

You give the impression that your experience of those women in the old peoples home was inevitable and all I have to do is walk outside my front door to see it's not. Not to say everyone will be so lucky but many will - many more than in the past because a)modern medicine is always advancing and b) women don't live for their families anymore like they used to and many have active social lives outside the home with large circles of friends.

I'd argue that women having the choice to limit the amount of children they'll have is a good thing. I can guarantee my mother would be alive today if she had that choice (even if the choice was there via other means, it wasn't acceptable in catholic Ireland in those days).

On the other hand, I do agree that the low birth rate will affect social services put in place to support elderly people. Hopefully people will see the value of immigration to deal with this issue to a degree and make it easier for women to balance career and family (which is not the case in Spain).


They have organisations here set up where old people can come and socialise and go on holidays and tours together. I see groups of old women in gangs basically hanging out having a great time - many of them have more of a social life and a bigger group of friends than I do at 34. That outlet wasn't there in the past and it is now. Their healthcare, though heavily in debt, is world class. They live well into their 90s for a reason and often in very good health allowing longevity and good health even among the working class.

I understand why your situation might colour your persepective but I'm more optimistic. You simply can't apply your experience to all cases. There is hope.

Sorry to hear about your difficult situation though - that can't be easy.

fatknacker

I reckon I'll be a fat oul wan

Jamaican Me Crazy

I hope I'm one of those older people that gets out and about doing things, meeting friends, volunteering etc.
We have Active Retirement groups into my workplace a lot and they always seem to be having loads of fun.

My dad will be 69 this year and he has a few health issues but no notions of retiring. Still working full time and working very hard. He has a good life though. He is in a happy relationship and they go on lots of holidays.

My mams husband is 75 this year and he is great. Very fit and active. Cooks, cleans and looks after my mam very well even though she is 10 years younger.

FactCheck

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

No plans to dress like a clown (the colour purple is hardly clownish) but have no plans to cut my hair into a short unstylish cut and wear beige either.

You've said this a couple of times now, and honestly, it reads very harsh. Most old women don't wear their hair short because they're unstylish frumps. They wear their hair short because when you get older, hair gets thin and brittle and they have no choice but to have it short.

Problems like arthritis can make hair care very difficult too.

It's reminder I suppose that we can plan all we want but much of how our old age will actually look is dependent on our health.

TheBeardedLady

FactCheck wrote: »

You've said this a couple of times now, and honestly, it reads very harsh. Most old women don't wear their hair short because they're unstylish frumps. They wear their hair short because when you get older, hair gets thin and brittle and they have no choice but to have it short.

You used the words "unstylish frumps", not me and you're taking what I said up and skewing it. I'm not trying to take a pot shot at old women but many older women do choose to disappear even more than they already have, which I think is unfortunate.


I don't equate short hair with being unstylish, by the way - I had short hair for a number of years and it's just below my chin now. You can wear it short but you can still wear it stylishly. I don't plan on having long, flowing locks in my 80s (obviously) but I'll get my hair done and make sure it looks nice.

NI24

There may be hope, BeardedLady, and in fact my grandmother was an example of that, but other people's posts are sort of confirming what I'm saying. One poster talks about how her father, at aged 71, is starting a whole new life, with a new woman and a new baby, while her mother is alone for the first time. Another one talks about her 65 year old mother and her 75 year old husband. Now, men can and do outlive women, but if we're talking the Law of Averages and if I was a betting woman, I would not predict the 65 year old is going to go first. As a woman, I can't trump biology, so if I choose not to have children now, there's no turning back. But this is not the case for men, and even men without children are surround by a plethora of women in their old age.

I'm not trying to belabor the point, but I do feel romantic relationships are one of the cornerstones of society, and the thought of not having that in my old age, when I need it the most, scares the living h*ll out of me. Family and friends give their own kind of love, there's no doubt about it, but in my humble opinion, they have never been a substitute for romantic love. This is just my feeling on the subject and obviously everyone feels different about what a fulfilled or unfulfilled life is, or what loneliness means to them, and you can't control how you're going to go, but speaking from a woman's (and only this woman's) point of view, I see old age as non-existent-- as in, I don't want it, therefore I hope it doesn't exist. But if I was a man? Oh yeah baby, bring it on! The opportunities never end.

TheBeardedLady

In my experience, men in long-term relationships/married men tend to not hold on to friendships as they age like women do and rely more on a romantic partner than women as they get older, hence the greater need to find a replacement. I don't see friendships or family as a substitute personally, I see them as equal to a romantic partner but in a different way.

But anyway, you have your view and I respect that. I think it's a pretty bleak one and one I can't share as I don't see it as inevitable. You do have some control over the quality of your old age though yes, I concede not complete control and yes, death is inevitable but it doesn't necessarily have to be a long and painful one filled with suffering.

All I can do is control what I can and hope for the best and remain positive because chances are, it's on its way whether I like it or not.

Neyite

I would very much hope that I don't have a debilitating illness in old age, that my partner and I have lots of retirement years together, and that I'm active right to the end and die peacefully in my bed.

I've never feared loneliness, I quite like my own company and have a few hobbies that I do on my own. But that might change as I get older, in that I might feel more vulnerable, I don't know.

I think I would like to be a zany auld wan growing old disgracefully.

pwurple

If I make it to old age, and I very much hope I do, then I expect it will be fun! More travel hopefully. There are loads of places I've still yet to see, and I'll be able to go off-peak! Wahoo!

Zipping around on the free travel pass like my grandparents did. Seeing matinee's and getting the pensioner rates on entry to galleries and museums. Early bird dinners. Having the most fun pottering around in the garden growing and swapping beautiful plants.

Maybe still doing a small bit of work, if I'm any use. I do like to keep busy.

I really hope my good friends and family are still around to have some banter with.


Looks-wise, I hope I'll live long enough to have a really interesting face, packed with amazing wrinkles. The wrinklier the better. Once I get to 70, I'm ditching the sunscreen and hitting the beach! Yeah baby!

I haven't a hope of being like this myself, however I always admire this sort of woman.

In their sixties and have let there hair go grey, but its a fabulous shade of grey and a stylish hair cut, designer glasses, understated elegant clothes, looks fabulous even in a pair of jeans, sexy and vibrant.

I saw a woman like that yesterday. I am realistic enough to know that while the look appears casual and easy to put together in reality it take a lot of effort.

pwurple

mariaalice wrote: »

I am realistic enough to know that while the look appears casual and easy to put together in reality it take a lot of effort.

... and money!

meeeeh

I think most of us are destined to wear Gerry Webber (clothes for real women or whatever they call themselves) and not some French designer brand that goes up to size 12 and no more. All I hope is that I will be able to avoid the loose Capri pants worn with wide flat sandals.

Anyway I very much hope my partner will be around. I think old age without him wouldn't be half as much fun. Besides someone has to do the gardening and I doubt I will hate it any less when I am old.