Dating questions

stickyfinger

Hi,
So I am just wondering what do you generally think about who asks who in dating? So I have asked guys out before when I've thought there was a bit of interest but it never went beyond one date, which is fair enough. But on talking to a few of my friends they were saying that they would never ask, and always wait to be asked, that if a guy likes you he'll ask. One also said she thinks that the guy might feel emasculated, I wouldn't have thought that anymore, as surely everyone likes to be asked out now and again even if they might say no to it.

I suppose I'm a bit of a failure at the whole thing so I would be interested to know what people think. Are you seen as too direct if you ask a guy out, and when is it even considered a date, or just hanging out without some one saying the word 'date'? If a guy asks you to get dinner together I'd assume it's a date (assuming they weren't a close friend), would a guy assume the same on being asked? Am I supposed to inject the word date when asking?!

I just thought it would get easier as time went on, but I often would just like it to be more straight forward, if someone likes you could they not just come out and ask you out instead of dropping hints, you then ask and it turns into nothing. I mean there is a good chance that the hints I think are there are all in my head and maybe that's what I need to work on, but these guys (most of them) have still said yes when I asked and we've (or at least I have) had a good time but then nothing after first meeting so maybe it's the rest I need to work on, I'm fairly sure that I don't turn the whole thing into an interview, I'm really just looking for a bit of a laugh and to see if we get on.

Rejection is a bummer, it's not that I am really invested in these but sometimes it would just be nice to even have a second date or to know if I am just doing something wrong, but even whether it is rejection isn't that clear when you don't even know if they consider it a date!

Anyhow sorry for the long post but I'm just really starting to wonder where I'm going wrong, I'd be interested in other opinions and to see if I should I keep doing what I'm doing or take a different approach or view on it!

Littlekittylou

Generally I like it if he asks. I have been led on by a couple of guys and they asked them out and rejected. It wasn't in my head they were just playing games TBH.

I like him to ask me out nicely. If he likes me he should and will. Or he will make time and effort to start chatting to me and be extra responsive etc. And then ask me out.

Go for people who are really keen in response to your query I think. Who are genuine and really like you.

I mean there is a good chance that the hints I think are there are all in my head and maybe that's what I need to work on,

Hint guys are a headwreck. It's not hints I need it's someone showing me respect and that they reeeaaaalllly like me. If they give me that attention I can be quite the assertive one.

I for one am going to stop second guessing everything. Either he asks or doesn't either he shows me he likes me and I ask or he ignores me.

It depends on the guy ETC. How you know him and how well.

I do worry guys find it odd. I have been rejected it hurts. But there are many soft nos or ways someone tells you they don't like you. It's when they mix up the signals that it gets weird.

When you are straight they find it too scary when you are gentle it's too ambiguous. It's never going to be perfect.

if someone likes you could they not just come out and ask you out instead of dropping hints, you then ask and it turns into nothing.

I know guys and girls can both be like this. If I drop hints I mean them. But it doesn't mean we are all not cautious of getting hurt. I guess.

A lot of the time guys ask you when they are drunk and then recant or you are unsure if it's genuine. Guys dropping hints then you ask and nothing is something I think that happens to both genders. I think we must misread it or something. Or it's all in our heads!:rolleyes: I think we have all done that.

stickyfinger

Thanks a mill, it's great to get another view on it, I think you have a better perspective on it than I do. Yes definitely I think I need to stop second guessing. I suppose I always just hear how guys are supposedly much more straightforward about it, so hearing that others think they can be a headwreck too helps, I've no doubt plenty of it is my head too!

Littlekittylou

stickyfinger wrote: »

Thanks a mill, it's great to get another view on it, I think you have a better perspective on it than I do. Yes definitely I think I need to stop second guessing. I suppose I always just hear how guys are supposedly much more straightforward about it, so hearing that others think they can be a headwreck too helps, I've no doubt plenty of it is my head too!

I wonder why?

Precious flower

I really wish you could just see a big green tick or a big x over a guy's head when he looks at you to know if he's interested. I would expect a guy to ask me but only because I'm a bit shy and am convinced that I'm not good enough/pretty enough for any guy I find attractive. Thing is that guy could be just as shy and waiting for you to make a move and then you are both caught but in this stupid dance that never goes anywhere. I've definitely been struggling to get a guy that you don't just meet for a night out when drinking and for the long haul. How to you gather up the courage without alcohol in an everyday setting? I mean I can chat to guys no problem in college it's just moving to that next step. Maybe they just aren't interested but are polite and I confuse that for shyness. Seems like everyone around me are getting boyfriends and I feel like there is something I'm not getting.

Littlekittylou

From now on in unless I hear from his own mouth, I REALLY like you ....i can't be bothered. I find it's usually just an emotional one up manshi game or they have a few girls on the go at the same time.

Littlekittylou

Precious flower wrote: »

I really wish you could just see a big green tick or a big x over a guy's head when he looks at you to know if he's interested. I would expect a guy to ask me but only because I'm a bit shy and am convinced that I'm not good enough/pretty enough for any guy I find attractive. Thing is that guy could be just as shy and waiting for you to make a move and then you are both caught but in this stupid dance that never goes anywhere. I've definitely been struggling to get a guy that you don't just meet for a night out when drinking and for the long haul. How to you gather up the courage without alcohol in an everyday setting? I mean I can chat to guys no problem in college it's just moving to that next step. Maybe they just aren't interested but are polite and I confuse that for shyness. Seems like everyone around me are getting boyfriends and I feel like there is something I'm not getting.

When I am upfront though they back off....so i dunno.

Precious flower

Littlekittylou wrote: »

When I am upfront though they back off....so i dunno.

Yeah I've always felt that women have been taught more so than men not to come across as 'desperate' which basically meant waiting to be approached and not showing initiative. The idea that guys like 'the chase' and get bored with you the minute you reciprocate is so stupid.I always felt anyway that guys are intimidated by girls who are forward, but for feck sake if they aren't being forward it's just a waste of time!

route9

stickyfinger wrote: »

Hi,
So I am just wondering what do you generally think about who asks who in dating? So I have asked guys out before when I've thought there was a bit of interest but it never went beyond one date, which is fair enough. But on talking to a few of my friends they were saying that they would never ask, and always wait to be asked, that if a guy likes you he'll ask. One also said she thinks that the guy might feel emasculated, I wouldn't have thought that anymore, as surely everyone likes to be asked out now and again even if they might say no to it.

I suppose I'm a bit of a failure at the whole thing so I would be interested to know what people think. Are you seen as too direct if you ask a guy out, and when is it even considered a date, or just hanging out without some one saying the word 'date'? If a guy asks you to get dinner together I'd assume it's a date (assuming they weren't a close friend), would a guy assume the same on being asked? Am I supposed to inject the word date when asking?!

I just thought it would get easier as time went on, but I often would just like it to be more straight forward, if someone likes you could they not just come out and ask you out instead of dropping hints, you then ask and it turns into nothing. I mean there is a good chance that the hints I think are there are all in my head and maybe that's what I need to work on, but these guys (most of them) have still said yes when I asked and we've (or at least I have) had a good time but then nothing after first meeting so maybe it's the rest I need to work on, I'm fairly sure that I don't turn the whole thing into an interview, I'm really just looking for a bit of a laugh and to see if we get on.

Rejection is a bummer, it's not that I am really invested in these but sometimes it would just be nice to even have a second date or to know if I am just doing something wrong, but even whether it is rejection isn't that clear when you don't even know if they consider it a date!

Anyhow sorry for the long post but I'm just really starting to wonder where I'm going wrong, I'd be interested in other opinions and to see if I should I keep doing what I'm doing or take a different approach or view on it!

A guy's point of view here...

If a bloke is interested, you'll know - unless he is the shy type and then you might need to drop a lot of hints until he strikes up the courage. However, in most cases a guy will just ask you out for a drink or whatever after a while chatting / interacting.

I think asking first is probably not the way to go, as I would say it sets off some questions around 'why did she ask me out, is there something going on'. Now there could be no reason for thinking this but you have to remember that we are the ones used to pursuing, and so it just seems more natural for us to do it, as opposed to being asked.

beks101

I think it's an interesting and bloody mindfcuking thing, this who-asks-who malark.

I always subscribed to the notion that "if he's interested, he'll ask. If not, he won't" but on reflection I'm not sure that allows for all the subtle nuances and specific circumstances and variances in different guys' personalities etc.

I think I had maybe one or two not-so-great experiences with being the 'initiator' and that was what led me to the above conclusion.

However I've had a few situations since I've gotten in a relationship where one or two male friends or work colleagues, ex colleagues etc have told me something along the lines of 'oh ya, I had a serious thing for you back then' etc, when at the time, I would've been absolutely none-the-wiser. But single during those times and possibly interested in dating them.

Those guys wouldn't have asked me out though because of circumstances - working together, fear of jeopardizing the friendship, lack of opportunity to actually chat to me etc - but would probably have been receptive to me making a move.

It made me think, I guess. About this 'fear of rejection' or the lack of confidence or nerves or hesitation or 'he's definitely just being friendly, not flirty' that any one of us ladies would have about asking someone out - it's just as real for lads too! Just because society tells us the onus is on them to do the asking - it doesn't make it any less nerve-wracking.

I'd say specifically with Irish lads too, as we don't quite seem to be down with this dating business like other countries are. I got asked out probably five times the amount that I did in Ireland when I lived in America and Canada. Because dating and casually approaching and meeting up with three different girls in one week is just a reality over there. It's got less of the risk or weight or terror of what will it mean if she/he says no attached to it. Guys will just ask and get on with their day.

So yeah. I think ultimately, life is a bit short for the hmming and hawing. Holding back may either be the right decision because the lad in question isn't overly interested; or it could mean missing out on a big opportunity because both of you are too nervous about taking a chance and are too busy mistaking the other's interest for platonic friendship to just bloody say, "fancy getting a drink sometime?"

I think if I were single again, I'd try to spend as much time as I could in the guy's company, flirt a bit and see if he responded to me. See if he moves things forward. Throw caution to the wind if I think the signals are there. Treat it as it should be treated - as something fun, an opportunity to maybe get to know someone a bit better - not some sort of invitation to get married and have babies, which it really isn't.

Precious flower

beks101 wrote: »

I think it's an interesting and bloody mindfcuking thing, this who-asks-who malark.

I always subscribed to the notion that "if he's interested, he'll ask. If not, he won't" but on reflection I'm not sure that allows for all the subtle nuances and specific circumstances and variances in different guys' personalities etc.

I think I had maybe one or two not-so-great experiences with being the 'initiator' and that was what led me to the above conclusion.

However I've had a few situations since I've gotten in a relationship where one or two male friends or work colleagues, ex colleagues etc have told me something along the lines of 'oh ya, I had a serious thing for you back then' etc, when at the time, I would've been absolutely none-the-wiser. But single during those times and possibly interested in dating them.

Those guys wouldn't have asked me out though because of circumstances - working together, fear of jeopardizing the friendship, lack of opportunity to actually chat to me etc - but would probably have been receptive to me making a move.

It made me think, I guess. About this 'fear of rejection' or the lack of confidence or nerves or hesitation or 'he's definitely just being friendly, not flirty' that any one of us ladies would have about asking someone out - it's just as real for lads too! Just because society tells us the onus is on them to do the asking - it doesn't make it any less nerve-wracking.

I'd say specifically with Irish lads too, as we don't quite seem to be down with this dating business like other countries are. I got asked out probably five times the amount that I did in Ireland when I lived in America and Canada. Because dating and casually approaching and meeting up with three different girls in one week is just a reality over there. It's got less of the risk or weight or terror of what will it mean if she/he says no attached to it. Guys will just ask and get on with their day.

So yeah. I think ultimately, life is a bit short for the hmming and hawing. Holding back may either be the right decision because the lad in question isn't overly interested; or it could mean missing out on a big opportunity because both of you are too nervous about taking a chance and are too busy mistaking the other's interest for platonic friendship to just bloody say, "fancy getting a drink sometime?"

I think if I were single again, I'd try to spend as much time as I could in the guy's company, flirt a bit and see if he responded to me. See if he moves things forward. Throw caution to the wind if I think the signals are there. Treat it as it should be treated - as something fun, an opportunity to maybe get to know someone a bit better - not some sort of invitation to get married and have babies, which it really isn't.

This definitely! A lot of Irish guys seems to need dutch courage before they approach you which can sometimes translate to blind drunk and fawning all over you. It's a big problem here because then how does that work in a setting with the alcohol removed? I mean if a person isn't in to clubs and the lot then finding a guy and making something happen becomes that much more difficult. I remember watching an American reality tv show once before and being so surprised that this girl was talking with this guy in a normal setting and he asked for her number straight out! Then as a date they went to the park and got ice-cream! It was so alien to me, they weren't teenagers either but in their 20's!

Littlekittylou

beks101 wrote: »

I think if I were single again

Congrats beks.

beks101

Precious flower wrote: »

This definitely! A lot of Irish guys seems to need dutch courage before they approach you which can sometimes translate to blind drunk and fawning all over you. It's a big problem here because then how does that work in a setting with the alcohol removed? I mean if a person isn't in to clubs and the lot then finding a guy and making something happen becomes that much more difficult. I remember watching an American reality tv show once before and being so surprised that this girl was talking with this guy in a normal setting and he asked for her number straight out! Then as a date they went to the park and got ice-cream! It was so alien to me, they weren't teenagers either but in their 20's!

I didn't date when I lived in Ireland. I had a great group of college friends and sometimes I might hit it off with a friend of a friend at a house party, or else some random guy in some random pub on some random night out, and that was how I met guys. That's kind of how it goes, isn't it?

I didn't get asked out on a date in the sober light of day until my first hike abroad at the age of 19 - I went on a J1 summer to New Jersey and one of the fellas I worked with in a rollercoaster park took a fancy to me (ah god be with the days!). I remember how unsettling it felt as an experience - to have this man profess his feelings for me and ask me out for dinner, in broad daylight, with others around to hear, without the fall-back of "shur I was locked, I can't remember what shyte I was talking!" It was lovely, but weird and slightly terrifying.

Since moving abroad I've realized how commonplace that kind of dating actually is in so many other parts of the world, and how normal it is to walk down the street and get stared at, admired, heads turning, guys approaching or broaching chat in ordinary every day situations. That's how the world works elsewhere.

As a teenager and even into my early twenties living in Ireland I assumed I 'just wasn't one of these stunners' who got asked out on the street, it was maybe something that I wasn't as opposed to it just simply not being our culture at all at all. Men aren't encouraged to stare, to fawn, to compliment and to approach; just as women aren't encouraged to see that kind of interest as comfortable and just human nature.

I absolutely love Irish lads, they're the best craic in the world and some of the warmest and funniest fellas you can ever meet, but I think there can be this sort of stand-off between the sexes where we just don't know how to figure each other out and that sort of discomfort and self-consciousness often doesn't allow for any progression in the romantic sense. The amount of times I've had these drunken confessions of "oh I fancied the aRse off ya then" from some of the lads in recent years, and I've been like "and you're telling me NOW, when I live overseas and we're both in relationships?! For the love of god WHY!!"

I think we have some ways to go when it comes to all of this stuff, and that's why now that I'm a lot more confident in myself and more at ease socially and kind of understand these social intricacies, I think I'd be a lot more willing to sort of meet halfway or do some of the 'ground work' when it comes to the dating question if I was single again.

stickyfinger

Thanks, some good advice there! I really find the whole thing a mindf*ck alright, but I do try and go on the hints and vibe I get, and it does feel like some of them aren't that subtle when they say oh yeah I must take you there sometime, numerous times. Perhaps I'm impatient, I know my personality is fairly direct. Anyway for the time being I think I'll take the advice and back off for a while, keep chatting to guys, attempt to flirt badly and see how it goes!

Beks I've heard the same in the past when I was seeing someone for a while, that guys I knew at the time only said afterwards that they should have asked me out before that, if they had I would have been interested in some of them at the time as well. Anyway I completely agree about the date culture here, at the end of the day it really is just a case of the first few dates being do we have a bit of fun and get on together as we get to know each other, I'm certainly not into reading much more than that out of it!

The Corinthian

There's a traditional expectation, that still holds true to a great extent, that men should approach women and not the other way around. TBH, I think this has benefited men more, as it means we have to deal with rejection over and over again, and so over time we become hardened to it and more willing to carpe diem in this and other areas of life. It's not just in matters of love that one can run the danger of becoming a wallflower.

I agree that there's too much reliance on alcohol in Ireland, not just for Dutch courage, but seemingly to justify any kind of sexual behaviour.

I have no preference who asks who. However I do have a preference against a woman who strictly expects that it should be a man who does the asking and were I a woman would likely have a similar preference against a man who would have a prejudice against my asking him out. Such people exist.

zeffabelli

route9 wrote: »

A guy's point of view here...

If a bloke is interested, you'll know - unless he is the shy type and then you might need to drop a lot of hints until he strikes up the courage. However, in most cases a guy will just ask you out for a drink or whatever after a while chatting / interacting.

I think asking first is probably not the way to go, as I would say it sets off some questions around 'why did she ask me out, is there something going on'. Now there could be no reason for thinking this but you have to remember that we are the ones used to pursuing, and so it just seems more natural for us to do it, as opposed to being asked.

By indirection, direction find.

Women do "court" but do it obliquely, in code. The skilled ones let you think you are the one driving the train.

Yes it's games, and people will rabbit on sanctimoniously about games [and to a large degree they are right] but when you look at game theory, performance theory, isn't life full of game? Rules and boundary allows to maneuever and place some order on what is otherwise chaos.

I do agree with another poster that the rituals have moreso benefitted men, and this transfers to other parts of life, like the professional life where women are less rehearsed in risk, rejection, pursuit, and working around barriers. Life is not perfect or ideal, you can break protocols and tradition, but you will pay a price for that, sometimes its worth it, sometimes you get burnt.

The Wallflower

Littlekittylou wrote: »

Hint guys are a headwreck. It's not hints I need it's someone showing me respect and that they reeeaaaalllly like me. If they give me that attention I can be quite the assertive one.

I am quite a quiet guy not shy though and I make sure to respect women.
I have seriously been contemplating asking a girl I barely know out as opposed to meeting on a night out and going from there.
However I don't want to put her in an awkward situation if she doesn't like me.

NI24

beks101 wrote: »

Since moving abroad I've realized how commonplace that kind of dating actually is in so many other parts of the world, and how normal it is to walk down the street and get stared at, admired, heads turning, guys approaching or broaching chat in ordinary every day situations. That's how the world works elsewhere.

As a teenager and even into my early twenties living in Ireland I assumed I 'just wasn't one of these stunners' who got asked out on the street, it was maybe something that I wasn't as opposed to it just simply not being our culture at all at all. Men aren't encouraged to stare, to fawn, to compliment and to approach; just as women aren't encouraged to see that kind of interest as comfortable and just human nature.

This may sound great in theory, but it can lead to creepy situations you can only imagine in horror movies. And it really only happens if you're a young, reasonably attractive girl in the first place. Try being an old woman of average looks and see how much you get stared at and fawned over. If anything, these cultural situations only drive home how much women are valued for their looks.

And to the OP, generally speaking, if the guy is very reserved or very shy, there's nothing wrong with taking the lead, surely? Although I have found that if a guy doesn't do the asking, he's generally not interested.
But you never know and it's better to take the risk and get rejected, than to always be wondering. Life's too short to be polite.

Coup detat

The Wallflower wrote: »

I am quite a quiet guy not shy though and I make sure to respect women.
I have seriously been contemplating asking a girl I barely know out as opposed to meeting on a night out and going from there.
However I don't want to put her in an awkward situation if she doesn't like me.

How does one "respect" women? I think some people have the idea in their head that respecting women means not expressing your sexual it and communicating as a man to a woman in a non platonic way and not as a friend to a friend.

zeffabelli

The Wallflower wrote: »

I am quite a quiet guy not shy though and I make sure to respect women.
I have seriously been contemplating asking a girl I barely know out as opposed to meeting on a night out and going from there.
However I don't want to put her in an awkward situation if she doesn't like me.

You are not respecting her competency by assuming she doesn't know how to say no thank you.

Precious flower

The Wallflower wrote: »

I am quite a quiet guy not shy though and I make sure to respect women.
I have seriously been contemplating asking a girl I barely know out as opposed to meeting on a night out and going from there.
However I don't want to put her in an awkward situation if she doesn't like me.

Have you interacting with her on a few occasions at all? How does she response to you? Do you have the opportunity to get to know her better? Chances are meeting a girl going out is doesn't have a strong chance of forming into a relationship. Well, it might be worth sussing her out a bit and seeing how she reacts to you first to gauge her interest. Either she says yes or no and at least if yer are not well acquainted with one another it won't be awkward afterwards, ye'll just both move on!:)

NI24 wrote: »

. Try being an old woman of average looks and see how much you get stared at and fawned over. If anything, these cultural situations only drive home how much women are valued for their looks.

Well, not to be cynical but most people are judged on their outer appearance when you first meet them. It's just human nature because you don't know them well enough yet you have nothing else to go on. Similarly, a girl will see a guy and subconsciously note how attractive he is. It often happens that a girl comes across a guy who, outwardly would not be someone she'd be interested in. However, she gets to know him a bit and it turns out he's perfect for her. That's way I tend not to immediately discount a guy because he may not fit into my type as I haven't gotten properly to know him yet. You can think a guy is amazingly hot then get to know him further and find out he's not your type.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

You are not respecting her competency by assuming she doesn't know how to say no thank you.

I know she can but I don't want to put her in an awkward situation. In Ireland there doesn't seem to be a culture of going up and asking someone out so they probably wouldn't be expecting it.

The Wallflower

Precious flower wrote: »

Have you interacting with her on a few occasions at all? How does she response to you? Do you have the opportunity to get to know her better? Chances are meeting a girl going out is doesn't have a strong chance of forming into a relationship. Well, it might be worth sussing her out a bit and seeing how she reacts to you first to gauge her interest. Either she says yes or no and at least if yer are not well acquainted with one another it won't be awkward afterwards, ye'll just both move on!:)

I have barely spoke to her before, just the odd greeting because she works in a shop. It seems to be acceptable in other countries to go up and ask someone on a date you just met but not in Ireland.

zeffabelli

The Wallflower wrote: »

I know she can but I don't want to put her in an awkward situation. In Ireland there doesn't seem to be a culture of going up and asking someone out so they probably wouldn't be expecting it.

So don't put her on the spot. Hand her your number on a piece of paper and tell her you'd like to take her out, and to give you a call. She can think about it and answer later.

This is not a huge deal. Very simple.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

So don't put her on the spot. Hand her your number on a piece of paper and tell her you'd like to take her out, and to give you a call. She can think about it and answer later.

This is not a huge deal. Very simple.

My word, that's brilliant lol See this is why I need more female friends.

The Corinthian

The Wallflower wrote: »

I know she can but I don't want to put her in an awkward situation. In Ireland there doesn't seem to be a culture of going up and asking someone out so they probably wouldn't be expecting it.

Then phrase it in a less direct fashion whereby she can decline without making it look like a rejection; "I'm going for a drink later if you're free" instead of "would you like to join me for a drink".

zeffabelli

The Corinthian wrote: »

Then phrase it in a less direct fashion whereby she can decline without making it look like a rejection; "I'm going for a drink later if you're free" instead of "would you like to join me for a drink".

This could work but it would really depend on your delivery, otherwise it could come off as making her feel anonymous.

I certainly would be more impressed by someone willing to risk rejection than someone who just needed some company...any company over a drink.

Not bad advice, just very dependent on delivery.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

This could work but it would really depend on your delivery, otherwise it could come off as making her feel anonymous.

Not entirely a bad thing? After all, without a little uncertainty where's the challenge for her?

I certainly would be more impressed by someone willing to risk rejection than someone who just needed some company...any company over a drink.

Even at the risk of being in an awkward situation, as the Wallflower suggested? You can't have everything all the time, after all.

Or as you suggested, you can use a piece of paper. Or email. Or stick to cybersex so as to keep everything completely safe too

zeffabelli

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not entirely a bad thing? After all, without a little uncertainty where's the challenge for her?

Even at the risk of being in an awkward situation, as the Wallflower suggested? You can't have everything all the time, after all.

Or as you suggested, you can use a piece of paper. Or email. Or stick to cybersex so as to keep everything completely safe too

These things always have a some uncertainty.

Yes even at the risk of being in an awkward situation, as I said earlier he must trust her competency to say "No thank you."

I would not be too interested in the anonymous feel of it. She might be....

zeffabelli

zeffabelli wrote: »

These things always have a some uncertainty.

Yes even at the risk of being in an awkward situation, as I said earlier he must trust her competency to say "No thank you."

I would not be too interested in the anonymous feel of it. She might be....

Sorry I can't edit for some reason.

The piece of paper would only be for the phone number...not the entire verbal exchange. He would still be inviting her out directly it just removes the being put on the spot part. This is pretty clear from what I said, I don't know why you are nit picking with talk of cybersex....etc...which brings even more of an anonymous feel and exactly what I would try to avoid.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

This is pretty clear from what I said, I don't know why you are nit picking with talk of cybersex....etc...

Actually, it wasn't clear to me. I understand what you were saying now.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

I would not be too interested in the anonymous feel of it. She might be....

I don't get to see her that often so I suppose I could try and introduce myself first, then add on facebook and go from there.

zeffabelli

The Wallflower wrote: »

I don't get to see her that often so I suppose I could try and introduce myself first, then add on facebook and go from there.

You are making too big a stink out of this in your head.

Next time you see her, either do what Corinthian suggested or tell her you'd like to take her out for a drink or ice cream or doughnut or whatever it is, and give her your number.

And then forget about it. That is all there is to it.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

You are making too big a stink out of this in your head.

Next time you see her, either do what Corinthian suggested or tell her you'd like to take her out for a drink or ice cream or doughnut or whatever it is, and give her your number.

And then forget about it. That is all there is to it.

Straight to business? My friends don't agree with that but I do agree with you. I'm 21 and all my friends meet girls at nightclubs etc.

zeffabelli

The Wallflower wrote: »

Straight to business? My friends don't agree with that but I do agree with you. I'm 21 and all my friends meet girls at nightclubs etc.

You can do it that way too.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

There is only ONE way to get good at this, and that is practise. No way around that.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

You can do it that way too.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

There is only ONE way to get good at this, and that is practise. No way around that.

I don't drink and find the nightclub way useless. I think your way is best bet for me as I want something more than an easy 'shift'.
I have only recently became more confident with women and usen't to feel good enough for women but I really want to just ask her out even if she says no, I've tried. Thanks

zeffabelli

The Wallflower wrote: »

I don't drink and find the nightclub way useless. I think your way is best bet for me as I want something more than an easy 'shift'.
I have only recently became more confident with women and usen't to feel good enough for women but I really want to just ask her out even if she says no, I've tried. Thanks

Ok many will find this odd advice, but you could practise by asking out women you are neither here nor there about so that the old ego doesn't take a hit if you are rejected and then you get some affirmation when you aren't.

Then you are rehearsed and getting some practise.

Your asking for a date, it's not a marriage proposal. You need to chill out.

The Wallflower

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ok many will find this odd advice, but you could practise by asking out women you are neither here nor there about so that the old ego doesn't take a hit if you are rejected and then you get some affirmation when you aren't.

Then you are rehearsed and getting some practise.

Your asking for a date, it's not a marriage proposal. You need to chill out.

Thanks for the advice zeffabelli

Meauldsegosha

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ok many will find this odd advice, but you could practise by asking out women you are neither here nor there about so that the old ego doesn't take a hit if you are rejected and then you get some affirmation when you aren't.

Then you are rehearsed and getting some practise.

Your asking for a date, it's not a marriage proposal. You need to chill out.

So he should ask out women he is not interested in for practice and to get an ego boost? What about the women he is asking out, he is using them to practice on. Obviously women are just playthings for men to practice on. :mad:

zeffabelli

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

So he should ask out women he is not interested in for practice and to get an ego boost? What about the women he is asking out, he is using them to practice on. Obviously women are just playthings for men to practice on. :mad:

Women are free to do this too. Seriously how else do you learn to date other than practise?

You could look at it as "using," but it's also up to the responder to learn to discern. Win win.

Meauldsegosha

zeffabelli wrote: »

Women are free to do this too. Seriously how else do you learn to date other than practise?

You could look at it as "using," but it's also up to the responder to learn to discern. Win win.

It doesn't matter if it is men or women doing it. Asking out someone you have no interest just to get an ego boost is is a horrible thing to do.

zeffabelli

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it is men or women doing it. Asking out someone you have no interest just to get an ego boost is is a horrible thing to do.

Oh really, you don't get an ego boost when you are asked out? You wouldn't be flattered by the attention?

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

Oh really, you don't get an ego boost when you are asked out? You wouldn't be flattered by the attention?

In fairness, I'd agree with you were it a question of simply flirting, but asked out by someone with no interest?

What would be the end result? Cancellation? Stood up? Or worst of all wasting an evening with someone who has no interest in me whatsoever? The minor ego boost I'd gain from the initial invitation would not be worth the eventual realization that it was a sham.

zeffabelli

The Corinthian wrote: »

In fairness, I'd agree with you were it a question of simply flirting, but asked out by someone with no interest?

What would be the end result? Cancellation? Stood up? Or worst of all wasting an evening with someone who has no interest in me whatsoever? The minor ego boost I'd gain from the initial invitation would not be worth the eventual realization that it was a sham.

This is where you have to learn to discern.

This happens all the time in dating.

How many conversations have you had with women which consist of "will he wont he" does he really like me.... how will I know....

Why they examine every conversation in disection.. under a microscope....

Why they say no two or three times before they actually say yes to a date...

It's all part of it.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

This is where you have to learn to discern.

This happens all the time in dating.

How many conversations have you had with women which consist of "will he wont he" does he really like me.... how will I know....

Asking someone out for whom you have no interest in to begin with and what you're suggesting are not the same thing. The person pursuing a date in reality is just wasting the other's time - there's no "will he wont he" because they don't care - they're not interested either way.

This is not to be mistaken, of course, with someone who is undecided at the start and eventually decides they're not interested, BTW.

Not sure how often it happens to women, but thankfully it happens rarely to men. It's normally some moocher who's looking for a free dinner.

zeffabelli

The Corinthian wrote: »

Asking someone out for whom you have no interest in to begin with and what you're suggesting are not the same thing. The person pursuing a date in reality is just wasting the other's time - there's no "will he wont he" because they don't care - they're not interested either way.

This is not to be mistaken, of course, with someone who is undecided at the start and eventually decides they're not interested, BTW.

Not sure how often it happens to women, but thankfully it happens rarely to men. It's normally some moocher who's looking for a free dinner.

Look there really is not other way around this but practice.

I happens all the time to women, why do you think they forensically analyse everything?

Yes there is a lot of time wasting in dating as there are in relationships too.

But when you consider game theory and the somatic marker hypothesis, then the person has to have some positive results behind them so they can make decisions in the future, otherwise no one tries.

It's called the "dating game" for a reason. It is a game.

zeffabelli

You think when women are on a dating website and she gets 85 emails from men that all those men are genuinely interested?

They probably emailed 600 women to cast their nets far and wide. And that's where they need to discern.

I think you might be assessing dating on how you feel it should be, rather than how it actually is.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

Look there really is not other way around this but practice.

I don't disagree with this, but that's what flirting is for. Actively asking someone out when you've no interest in them is a bit too close to PUA territory.

I happens all the time to women, why do you think they forensically analyse everything?

If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a very, very rich man indeed.

Yes there is a lot of time wasting in dating as there are in relationships too.

Ultimately perhaps, but at least both parties enter on good faith, even if it doesn't work out in the end.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

You think when women are on a dating website and she gets 85 emails from men that all those men are genuinely interested?

You're suggesting these men emailed them without any intention or interest in ever meeting them? That's just a bit far fetched, TBH.

I think you might be assessing dating on how you feel it should be, rather than how it actually is.

Oh, I'm well aware that people play games in dating, but for example emailing 600 women you have no interest in, for practice, is not very believable either.

zeffabelli

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't disagree with this, but that's what flirting is for. Actively asking someone out when you've no interest in them is a bit too close to PUA territory.

Ah yeah, ok then take it to "moderate interest." I didn't quite say "no interest." Somehow 'neither here nor there" got translated into NO interest, which is not precisely the same thing.

The Corinthian wrote: »

If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a very, very rich man indeed.

I know the answer to that, but that's for another day.

The Corinthian

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ah yeah, ok then take it to "moderate interest." I didn't quite say "no interest." Somehow 'neither here nor there" got translated into NO interest, which is not precisely the same thing.

Actually you clearly responded to a post that specifically cited "no interest". Not sure how you can claim a mistranslation.

I know the answer to that, but that's for another day.

So you claim.