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Who would be called in?

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34 imperator567


    Zambia wrote: »
    Not quite what we are talking about but in the case above chances are the military would be summoned.

    But I stress it's highly unlikely to occur.


    But even in a fluid and evolving Paris type incident with armed terrorists roaming loose after a significant incident, ie a multiple murder, the Wing would be called in. As French Special Forces were.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    French police had two major events unfolding , no surprise they required another tactical unit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    I would think that if anyone was to storm any buildings it would be the rangers in place of the ERU

    Definitely. I remember the so-called Athy 'shootout', among (rumoured) other f**kups. Not the Guards' finest moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    Definitely. I remember the so-called Athy 'shootout', among (rumoured) other f**kups. Not the Guards' finest moment.


    Doesn't read terribly
    In January 1990, one of five armed criminals was killed by a team from the Garda Emergency Response Unit, during a hostage-taking at a bank in Athy, County Kildare. Five raiders, each armed, from a prominent Dublin based criminal gang attempted to steal cash from the bank, but had been followed by an undercover unit from the ERU, following a spate of violent robberies in the Greater Dublin Area. When the armed gang attempted to raid the bank, they were surrounded by ERU operatives, and resorted to taking staff, customers and passers-by hostage. An ERU marksman shot one gang member in the head from long range. Austin Higgins (26), who was on bail from robbery charges at the time, was fatally wounded. Eight people were injured during the incident, but all of the hostages were freed and survived. The remaining gang of four who were armed, but did not fire their weapons, were apprehended (two of whom were shot but survived) by Gardaí and later received 12 year prison sentences.[26]

    What is your issue?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Zambia wrote: »
    Doesn't read terribly


    What is your issue?

    The issue is the eru are not as cool as the ARW clearly...


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Closing this thread until ive time to read to ensure there are no OPSEC issues... please bare with me.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Thread reopened, please observe OPSEC at all times, thanks.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    The INLA or some paramilitary that has real life experience with terrorist & anti-terrorist situations.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Morpheus wrote: »
    Thread reopened, please observe OPSEC at all times, thanks.

    Are you for real? lol This is what happens when u get a small bit of power in the most insignificant of places you go mad! lol if the irish army is compromised by boards.ie then i think it has bigger issues than OPSEC...lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Zambia wrote: »
    Doesn't read terribly

    What is your issue?

    You need to re-read, then. The ERU showed up, blasted anyone and everything in sight (including civilians and other Guards) like the Dirty Harry wannabes they are. The initial press reports - of course, since the 'crime correspondents' live by transcribing from leaks from the boys in blue - claimed that there was a shoot-out which caused all of these casualties, but it eventually came out that the gentlemen in the bank didn't fire a single shot.

    If you think that this is fine, then you no doubt also think the Alamo was a roaring success.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    You need to re-read, then. The ERU showed up, blasted anyone and everything in sight (including civilians and other Guards) like the Dirty Harry wannabes they are. The initial press reports - of course, since the 'crime correspondents' live by transcribing from leaks from the boys in blue - claimed that there was a shoot-out which caused all of these casualties, but it eventually came out that the gentlemen in the bank didn't fire a single shot.

    If you think that this is fine, then you no doubt also think the Alamo was a roaring success.

    Please provide a link to those accounts .


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Are you for real? lol This is what happens when u get a small bit of power in the most insignificant of places you go mad! lol if the irish army is compromised by boards.ie then i think it has bigger issues than OPSEC...lol

    No need to target a mod like this, real life got in the way
    For those wondering, I saw the title, as a mod i temporarily decided to close the thread and I intended to just check over it for any opsec issues which may be there .however when i got home from work real life intervened and i didnt get the chance to read over it and subsequently forgot. . if any poster here might have any issues with how anyone moderates, consider engaging via PM.

    Yellow card issued.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    You need to re-read, then. The ERU showed up, blasted anyone and everything in sight (including civilians and other Guards) like the Dirty Harry wannabes they are. The initial press reports - of course, since the 'crime correspondents' live by transcribing from leaks from the boys in blue - claimed that there was a shoot-out which caused all of these casualties, but it eventually came out that the gentlemen in the bank didn't fire a single shot.

    If you think that this is fine, then you no doubt also think the Alamo was a roaring success.

    That is also my recollection.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    That is also my recollection.

    Well then a link showing how you based your account should be easy for you to find.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Morpheus wrote: »
    No need to target a mod like this, real life got in the way
    For those wondering, I saw the title, as a mod i temporarily decided to close the thread and I intended to just check over it for any opsec issues which may be there .however when i got home from work real life intervened and i didnt get the chance to read over it and subsequently forgot. . if any poster here might have any issues with how anyone moderates, consider engaging via PM.

    Yellow card issued.

    It wasnt targeting you and i was not being uncivil, but seriously you are checking a post on boards.ie for OPSEC...its abit much dont yeah think? lol

    The yellow card was also well over the top, are we not allowed to question some mod actions, since when is it uncivil to disagree with something?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4 salthillflyer


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Ah, you mean a militia?

    Not sure if that's not prohibited under the current constitution. The real problem there might be handing over military firearms and other VERY specialised equipment to civilians acting in loco ARW.

    Serving members of the PDF, who do this kind of thing, are already called the ARW. The 'ASU' bit does not trip off the tongue well, especially if you will recall that PIRA and their ilk - the RIRA, call themselves by this title.

    Under whose overall authority are they likely to fall, AGS or the military?

    You seem to be rather caught up with the 'use of force' part of it, too, and that in itself is a worrying thing to most people in government. If you had said 'sufficient force to effect control of situation that are outside the scope of AGS/ERU personnel, in the absence, or in support of the ARW' that might have flown better with me - not, of course, that it matters a hoot in my case.

    Does the RoI have the equivalent of the UK's Aid to Civil Powers [in times of emergency]?

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .

    This just sounds like the Black and Tans


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭daithi55


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .


    bob hope and no hope the pdf arent let do feck all ie have this kind of responsibility ... they aint going to give warlord part timers this role..

    as a matter of interest where would said weapons be kept
    under lock and key in an army barracks where their pdf falling over each other everyday looking for something to do... there not going to drag in a part timer from 20 miles out the road who is in the middle of wiring a socket or stacking a shelf or teaching school kids to come in and fill a role like this

    stop dreaming... you refer to it as motivated id call it day dreaming


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,240 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    tac foley wrote: »
    Ah, you mean a militia?

    Not sure if that's not prohibited under the current constitution. The real problem there might be handing over military firearms and other VERY specialised equipment to civilians acting in loco ARW.

    Serving members of the PDF, who do this kind of thing, are already called the ARW. The 'ASU' bit does not trip off the tongue well, especially if you will recall that PIRA and their ilk - the RIRA, call themselves by this title.

    Under whose overall authority are they likely to fall, AGS or the military?

    You seem to be rather caught up with the 'use of force' part of it, too, and that in itself is a worrying thing to most people in government. If you had said 'sufficient force to effect control of situation that are outside the scope of AGS/ERU personnel, in the absence, or in support of the ARW' that might have flown better with me - not, of course, that it matters a hoot in my case.

    Does the RoI have the equivalent of the UK's Aid to Civil Powers [in times of emergency]?

    tac

    Pay no heed to him. He's a fantasist that has already been banned from the Aviation forum. And after only 3 posts. That must be a record.

    To answer the last question yes they do have something very similar. EOD in the state is done by the defence forces for example.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭wildfowler94


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .

    I see Dave is back. Perhaps he can drive the scene of any incidents in his pajero or mondaeo


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .

    **** that they should just let people handle it themselves altogether throw on an ole bandanna dust off the ole bow and go full rambo on any terrorists!....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,628 ✭✭✭Señor Fancy Pants


    evo2000 wrote: »
    ...you are checking a post on boards.ie for OPSEC...its abit much dont yeah think? lol

    Not really


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 cacdit2016


    I imagine they would. An armies first purpose is to defend it's nation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Not really

    Yes really, ye prob have absolutely nothing to do with the army, and yet are worrying about opsec and ****.. im fairly sure the Irish army can look out for itself!

    Or are ye The Opsec Division Boards.ie Brigade HOORAH! lol


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,628 ✭✭✭Señor Fancy Pants


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Yes really, ye prob have absolutely nothing to do with the army, and yet are worrying about opsec and ****.. im fairly sure the Irish army can look out for itself!

    Or are ye The Opsec Division Boards.ie Brigade HOORAH! lol

    I am the Chief Brigadier General First Class Airman in charge of counter OPSEC. I'm also in charge of red pen distribution within the DF.

    Don't you sass me young woman! Now run along.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Savage93


    Now this is what is needed , I proposed this several times and it has fallen on deaf ears


    There are many highly motivated members and ex members of the RDF , who be more that happy to assist with regional set ups for anti terrorist duties and any other roles that would require the use of force,

    We are locally based and could be called out in minutes , just equip us with weapons , vehicles and away we go .

    Well well , if it's not Nutcase Dave with more lunatic proposals, out on day release again Dave??????:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Might be interesting although german is required



    But basically the same sort of discussion is going on in Austria the moment, although more publically. The police unit (Cobra) maintain it's their preserve legally and they are certainly well trained to do so.. however the Army special forces (Jagdcommando) have access to a higher level of equipment than the police and are pushing to get more responsibility in the case of anything happening, while the police would prefer more funding. A few days ago I read in the paper that they made an agreement where the police can have access to military helicopters depending on the level of threat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭wotswattage


    Zambia wrote: »
    Doesn't read terribly


    What is your issue?

    The Wiki you quoted is basically a piece of spin. It doesn't tell any lies per say but dresses up the truth to make it look fairly rosey. One issue with the Wiki post is the gang member who was fatally shot was shot by several Gardai armed with pistols and shotguns so unlikely shot at 'long range'...

    The gang were under surveillance beforehand & up to the attempted raid. They never fired their weapons during the 'shootout' (if you can call it that when only one side are firing). Gardai shot one gang member dead. They also shot and injured 3 fellow Gardai, one other gang member, two hostages and a woman down the street! Again the gang never fired a shot!

    Yes the Gardai were successful in preventing the raid, and I'm sure preparation & technique has improved since, but the operation was carried out in a gung ho fashion and I'm sure all of the injuries & fatality could have been prevented.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    The Wiki you quoted is basically a piece of spin. It doesn't tell any lies per say but dresses up the truth to make it look fairly rosey. One issue with the Wiki post is the gang member who was fatally shot was shot by several Gardai armed with pistols and shotguns so unlikely shot at 'long range'...

    The gang were under surveillance beforehand & up to the attempted raid. They never fired their weapons during the 'shootout' (if you can call it that when only one side are firing). Gardai shot one gang member dead. They also shot and injured 3 fellow Gardai, one other gang member, two hostages and a woman down the street! Again the gang never fired a shot!

    Yes the Gardai were successful in preventing the raid, and I'm sure preparation & technique has improved since, but the operation was carried out in a gung ho fashion and I'm sure all of the injuries & fatality could have been prevented.

    Surely the gardai would face some sort of consquences if what your saying is the truth?, you say they dressed up the truth in wiki, but i think your doing abit too good of a job dressing it down..

    The way your making it sound, the gardai just showed up and started blastin in every direction no warning no provocation nothing just showed up and fired from the hip till nothing moved, i doubt thats how it went down tho!


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