different ambitions

LegacyUser

I'm struggling a lot with this issue and it makes me feel like a bad person. I am getting married next year and happy in my relationship apart from one problem which seems petty I suppose. Our levels of ambition are very different. I have a master's and avail of courses and ongoing training in my field to continually upskill. My partner on the other hand works in a minimum wage job, has no college behind him, or desire to move on from this situation.

I never had a problem with this issue until recently. I am in a well paid job but unfortunately on a zero hours contract. I pay the majority of our expenses, rent, bills, food, car expenses etc which is fair given I earn about 1000 more a month.

My worries really are that we are looking at buying a home and having children. I feel under so much pressure to keep working extra hours to pay for the majority of everything at the minute, and I don't believe I actually could have children any time soon as his wages wouldn't support us both and because of my contract I'd only get state maternity pay. I'm working myself into the ground trying to save as much as possible and starting to resent him as a result. When I have tried talking to him about it he says he can't find another job, and isn't willing to go back to college, but that everything will be ok. I'm trying desperately to get a permanent contract at the minute and would do anything for one, but I suppose I don't feel part of a team at the minute. I feel like a total bitch for resenting him because apart from this issue everything is good. Help please!

Tigger99

So apart from him burying his hand in the sand and you run ragged with worry, everything is grand. I think it's very far from grand tbh. I'm not surprised you are starting to resent him. How can you afford to pay for a wedding and a mortgage on your own? If you said that he was willing to rear the kids or anything that sounded like you guys are a team then I'd say fair enough, but it all sounds very one sided.

Also, maybe he is happy to not buy a house for the next while bit ever, or get married and have kids
I know you are engaged but he's not being proactive at all. I think you need to have an honest conversation with him where he tells you what he thinks. Everything will be grand is a cop out for him.

Also there is no guarantee of a salary with a zero hours contract, as you know, I would be beside myself with stress planning this future with that type of contract.

Abd worrying about this doesn't make you feel like a bad person, far from it.

zoobizoo

What ages are you both and has he ever shown an interest in anything work / career wise?

How is the wedding being paid for?

LegacyUser

Thank you for your replies. I am 29 and he is 30. We are both paying for the wedding (having a small, low key and fairly cheap wedding) but I am paying substantially more. I don't mind paying more proportionately for things as I do earn more, but if I was off maternity for example we could not manage on his salary. He does not seem to understand my worries about any of this. Thank you for reading.

Stavro Mueller

I wouldn't call this you being a bitch. In my opinion it's you coming to realise that there is a very real problem here. You are absolutely right to be concerned about this. I wonder have you been enabling your partner's behaviour to a certain extent? You are the one who went out and bettered herself. Earned the masters, got a better paying job and is paying for just about everything from what I can see. It has sheltered your partner from the reality of living on a minimum wage and is enabling him to live a more comfortable life. Of course he's saying everything's going to be OK. You've been there as his safety net all the way along.

jackboy

Could your partner stay at home and mind the children. Not many couples out there who both have good careers. People manage.

LegacyUser

Hi Jackboy, he would not stay at home if we did have kids, we have a few friends with stay at home dads and he always says he would absolutely hate to do that. I suppose I feel that Im meant to do it all! Stavro Mueller thanks for that, I am sure I have enabled him, I was raised to be self-sufficient and my mother worked extremely hard to give me a good start in life, so that was always a priority for me. I'm from a very disadvantaged area of Dublin too (he is from somewhere much more affluent and from quite a well off background) and does not seem to have the same drive as I do. this only really started to become an issue recently as now we are planning for our future. I feel trapped to be honest as I love him and want to stay with him but need some more help.

Stavro Mueller

OP, why didn't he go to college?

In the short term I strongly advise against you buying a house or having children with him. I'd also consider postponing the wedding. Now that this issue is making you resent him, there's no guarantee that these feelings will go away. In fact they could grow stronger, especially if you find money getting very tight at home.

LegacyUser

All relationships require give and take but when you doing all the giving no wonder you feel the way you do. The reality is that your paying most the bills. You can't see your life improving any time soon.

You have spoken to your fiancé about changing jobs or going back to college so things will get better for you both. He is unwilling to do this. I have to be honest he sounds very immature. The reality is that your a couple planning to get married. You need to work together.

Several of my friends support there oh for a while but these men were setting up business, in college or at the beginning of a career. They were not being used as a cash cow.

At this stage I would say to your finance that you want to get married, buy a house and have children but if you stay with him this won't happen for you. I would then tell him that since he won't look for a better job or go back to college he has left you with no other choice but to end things with him.
I would be this blunt with him. The reality is yes your engaged to be married but to a man who is unwilling to make changes in his life to improve both of your lives long term.

I know a woman who was in a similar situation to you. She got engaged to a man who was always going out, was not willing to save money or make any long term plans. She spoke to him but he made no changes. She ended things with him.

I know several woman who ended relationships that were going no where and they went on to meet men who wanted the same as them.

freshpopcorn

I pay the majority of our expenses, rent, bills, food, car expenses etc
If you pay for all these things what exactly does he pay? I.e percentage Wise.
Is there any reason why he never went to college. I know some people and college/university was just not for them.
If ye did have kids he might have to face up to being a stay at home dad. just because it would not be viable To pay for child care.

LegacyUser

Thank you everyone for replying. I actually thought that by making this thread people would tell me to just get over it, and that no relationship is completely equal. I'm a little shocked by some replies but grateful as they are giving me a new perspective. He didn't go to college as he did very badly in school, just about passed the leaving cert whereas I got quite high points. A trivial example about out differing motivations is that I go to the gym a lot and keep active, whereas he doesn't look after himself at all. Just to mention as well, this genuinely is the only problem in our relationship (i know it's a major one). He is incredibly kind, loving, and intelligent, and if he was more motivated and we were equals I feel like we'd be perfect. I hate judging the man i love as I feel disloyal doing it, but I'm starting to make myself sick over all this. Thank you again

zoobizoo

Might his lack of motivation be anything to do with a lack of confidence and a lack of self belief which comes across as a lack of motivation?

Does he have any plans for after you get married?

What does he do all day?

LegacyUser

He does have a job, it's just that it's minimum wage so he doesn't have much income at all. It's definitely to do with low confidence which is why I feel bad even starting this thread. It's just that I feel under huge pressure to work as much overtime as physically possible,if I didn't we wouldn't have any savings behind us at all.

zoobizoo

struggling with ambition wrote: »

It's definitely to do with low confidence which is why I feel bad even starting this thread.

Sorry, I forgot about the job.

Don't feel bad for starting the thread.

Maybe try to find ways that would encourage him to explore his lack of confidence and face up to the realities that you have concerns about.

If he doesn't, things will remain the same.

He is only 30 and he has plenty of time to begin a career.

LegacyUser

Thanks for that, it's very good advice. I know rationally that 30 is very young, I suppose part of the issue is my biological clock, I didn't mention this in my original post but I have several medical issues that will make it hard/maybe impossible to conceive. So part of me thinks I should really try to have babies sooner rather than later, but with me on zero hours contract we just can't afford it. That definitely weighs on me, which isn't at all his fault. Really appreciate the replies.

Stavro Mueller

Funny you say it's a minor issue in an otherwise fine relationship. I can see this eating you up and destroying the relationship over the coming years. At 30 years of age, there's a very good chance he's not going to change from what he is. Are you prepared to accept that? He's not going to be the person you want him to be - someone who pulls his weight financially. Going by what he has said about being a stay at home parent, I genuinely fear that if you have children you will be the one who's left doing just about everything. Are you sure it's lack of confidence he's suffering from or is it simply a guy who has coasted through life because his parents and you enabled him?

I would suggest you get out a pen & paper or do some maths in Excel. Write down what you earn, what he earns. Then write down what's going out of your household in the month - all the bills, the rent, the groceries etc. Then print out a second set of accounts, estimating what it'd cost if you have a child, have to start paying for nappies etc. and you end up out of work. Perhaps do another without your overtime. Ask him what he thinks of the maternity numbers and where he thinks the money for this will come from. Do not accept "Ah t'will be grand. It'll be OK". He has been getting away with that cloud cuckoo land nonsense since he was in short trousers. He needs to be told in very cold stark language that if he continues on in this fashion, the wedding, the house and the kids are on hold. That this is a dealbreaker. You physically can't keep putting in the hours you are just because he can't be bothered trying to improve his lot. He has no intention of looking for another job, let alone upskilling.

My feeling is that he's one of those people who's really good at saying the right thing but goes missing when it comes to putting their shoulder to the wheel. Your high-achieving personality has papered over the cracks until now. You've got to ask yourself why you're feeling sick about this. I'm a big believer in listening to your gut. If you've got misgivings about things, don't walk into a marriage, a mortgage and children.

the_syco

struggling with ambition wrote: »

It's just that I feel under huge pressure to work as much overtime as physically possible,if I didn't we wouldn't have any savings behind us at all.

If you have to work overtime to make ends meet, you'll know deep down that you'll never be able to afford kids. Unfortunately love alone won't pay the bills.

LegacyUser

I've been thinking about this all day. To answer the questions posed here, we can afford to live at the minute without my overtime, I'm doing non stop overtime in order to pay for wedding and hopefully save for house deposit. In a way I feel it's my issue not his because he has always been like this and maybe I'm the one changing the goal posts by saying we need to save for settling down? He'd happily never buy a house and keep renting and just hope it worked out whereas I couldn't live like that. I'm so lost. I feel I've made a mess of everything and that I'm stuck now. I really want to marry him and get all of this settled but if he won't change i don't know what to do. I wish I was able to get a proper contract in work and I'm trying to so maybe that will work out.

Tigger99

See this is where I'm confused. If my partner was working crazy hours to save money for our house and our wedding you can be damn sure I'd be looking at whatever options I could to help out. Take a second job, look at see how I could help to reduce expenses etc etc. I could and would not watch someone I love break their back to get something that would help our future, without doing everything I could to help.

Stavro Mueller

struggling with ambition wrote: »

I feel I've made a mess of everything and that I'm stuck now. I really want to marry him and get all of this settled but if he won't change i don't know what to do. I wish I was able to get a proper contract in work and I'm trying to so maybe that will work out.

Why do you feel you've made a mess of things?

This boils down to a fundamental difference in values. He's someone who's just ambling along through life, living on the coat-tails of other people doing the worrying on his behalf. If you were OK with that, it might not be a problem. You are bothered though and you can't change the way you're wired. You have every right to be worried about what's coming down the lines here. A better job contract would be a really great thing to get but realistically, it'd just be a sticking plaster covering a gaping wound.

If he won't change or listen to what you have to say, you have two choices
(i) Accept that you'll be the one working your fingers to the bone for years to come, stressing about finances, putting kids through college etc.
(ii) Break up.

cactusgal

Hi Op. Sorry to hear you're going through this. I was once engaged to a guy who was very nice, and very talented and able, but also very unambitious. He had 2 Bachelor's degrees and two Master's degrees and a mountain of student loan debt, but was only working 20 hrs a week at minimum wage, while I was busting my arse working 2 jobs to save up for the wedding. If I'd gotten pregnant, I knew I'd have to go straight back to work. I refused to pay for his half of the rent and bills, so as a result, we had to live very simply, no holidays, no big nights out, etc.

He was cool with that kind of life. I was not. I realized that that is just how he was, and will likely always be. Getting married would only mean that I'd be signing up to a life of that.

You can't date someone's potential. Be with then for who they are, right now, not who you hope they will become. Don't expect them to fundamentally change.

As a sidenote, after breaking up with my ex, it really made me appreciate men like my father. He always worked hard to provide for his family and help out his own parents. My mother, sadly, is very ill, and he now cares for her full time. That's the kind of support I'd be looking for in a prospective life partner, someone who'll always have your back and be there for you (not just financially, but in general).

freshpopcorn

I don't think you should be worrying about buying a house.
I know couples similar to you. I.e one of them is in a high paying job and the other is working minimum wage and getting by. The ones that have lasted got on well and lasted as couples because they weren't worried about success/bbuying houses/keeping fit. They knew they had there differences but they loved one another.

the_syco

struggling with ambition wrote: »

I never had a problem with this issue until recently. I am in a well paid job but unfortunately on a zero hours contract. I pay the majority of our expenses, rent, bills, food, car expenses etc which is fair given I earn about 1000 more a month.

struggling with ambition wrote: »

he is from somewhere much more affluent and from quite a well off background

Seems his attitude of "everything will work out", as so far, everything has worked out. When sh|t has gone down the drain, I'm thinking his family got him out of it. Currently, he goes along nice and easily, and everything, from his point of view, is working out. What he is blissfully ignoring is that others are picking up the slack for him.

If you love, kick him up his hole, and book him into a course. If he doesn't upskill, he'll be forever stuck in the rut.

LegacyUser

Aside from the fact you are the main breadwinner, where the lightbulb goes on for me is if you decide to have kids one day. Childcare in this country is a second mortgage and if he is not going to be a stay at home dad or help out here then you are going to end up working yourself into the ground. It might be a good idea to do a pre-marriage course or post pone the wedding because you both seem to have a different idea of what is ok and whats not.

As another poster said you are going to have sit down and work out the figures,if you are on a zero hours contract at the moment you wouldn't get a mortgage as your job is unsecure. Banks have tightened up a lot when it comes to giving out mortgages and you now need a 20% deposit as well.

Also just because he came from an affluent family, from a good area and went to good schools doesn't really mean anything. Its more do with his personality and the fact he is happy to coast along.

foleypio

Ok, im going to play devils advocate here, what if the sexes were different. I think the majority of posters replies on this thread would be quite different too. I would be expecting some replies along the lines, arent you a catch, etc.

I think alot of the trouble with this thread is that some people still expect the man to be the main breadwinner. Why cant the woman make more money then the man, be the main breadwinner, worry about the bills etc. Men have been doing this throughout history.

We're at an unprecendented time in this country where women are becoming better qualified than men & also starting to earn more than they did in the past. Woman & feminists have campaigned for equal rights long enough.

It sounds to me like the OP is quite desperate to have the kids, get married relatively soon. Maybe he is willing to wait, we're only hearing one side of the story.

rondog

OP-Its very easy for people to come on here and say 'oh just leave him,life will be much better'..they havent invested the time and effort in the relationship nor are thery in love with your partner.

I found in life,that in many cases people who seem strong and offer their opinion are the same people that never took their own advice.

talk to your partner and work things out.If you are going to run at the slightest sign of a problem then you have a very weak relationship.

Tigger99

Foleypio I think responses would have been the same, I know i queried if he would be willing to rear the children, but he has already told her a very definitive no. No matter the gender I think that it's unfair to have one partner shoulder all the worry about finances.

I do think you have a point about not hearing his side, but his actions speak volumes.

miamee

foleypio wrote: »

Ok, im going to play devils advocate here, what if the sexes were different. I think the majority of posters replies on this thread would be quite different too. I would be expecting some replies along the lines, arent you a catch, etc.

I think alot of the trouble with this thread is that some people still expect the man to be the main breadwinner. Why cant the woman make more money then the man, be the main breadwinner, worry about the bills etc. Men have been doing this throughout history.

We're at an unprecendented time in this country where women are becoming better qualified than men & also starting to earn more than they did in the past. Woman & feminists have campaigned for equal rights long enough.

It sounds to me like the OP is quite desperate to have the kids, get married relatively soon. Maybe he is willing to wait, we're only hearing one side of the story.

Equality means being equal. Somebody breaking their back doing overtime, studying and paying the lion's share of the bills and expenses for a period of years when the other partner has no intention of ever picking up the slack is not equality regardless of whether it's a man and a woman, two men or two women.
The OP whether it were a man or in this case, a woman, has every right to look to the future and worry about how their life with this person is going to turn out.

cactusgal

Tigger99 wrote: »

Foleypio I think responses would have been the same, I know i queried if he would be willing to rear the children, but he has already told her a very definitive no. No matter the gender I think that it's unfair to have one partner shoulder all the worry about finances.

I do think you have a point about not hearing his side, but his actions speak volumes.

+1, it's not much of a partnership when one person is effectively leeching off the other, regardless of gender. If you've got two arms and two legs, no major health issues, and are if at least average intelligence, there's no reason why you can't pitch in and do your fair share.

sashafierce

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sashafierce

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foleypio

miamee wrote: »

Equality means being equal. Somebody breaking their back doing overtime, studying and paying the lion's share of the bills and expenses for a period of years when the other partner has no intention of ever picking up the slack is not equality regardless of whether it's a man and a woman, two men or two women.
The OP whether it were a man or in this case, a woman, has every right to look to the future and worry about how their life with this person is going to turn out.

Yes, equality, that old chestnut. Well, I have news for you, men have & are still carrying the majority of families, relationships in this country. Whats so bad about the roles being reversed in some instances between the sexes. That's what were really talking about here.

If it was a guy on here talking about being unable to see a future with his partner because she wasn't earning enough money. The responses on here would have been completely different. You & I both know that.

Some of the posts criticizing the boyfriend have been out of order on here in my opinion. We don't know if kids is really what he wants, we know she wants them & is running out of time to have them. Maybe he is agreeing to the marriage, mortgage & kids to keep her happy. And if that is the case, its not such a bad thing that she has to work more for them

sashafierce

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foleypio

sashafierce wrote: »

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Well, we know its not working for her. We dont know about him, maybe he paid the rent, fees for her while she was in college doing her masters. Maybe he genuinely likes what he does & doesnt want to change jobs in the pursuit of more cash. Maybe he's unable to work more, contribute more because that option isnt open to him or he doesnt want to do shadow work in a MacDonalds.

Truth is we dont know the full story or his side of it & judgement should be reserved until we do as some of the criticism of him on here has been over the top.

Also, Some of the inferences that she should leave him are very reckless considering it seems like she does love him.

We dont all get what we want in life. True love, marriage, kids, nice house etc. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices

sashafierce

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LegacyUser

Op, I might as well have written this myself. I'm with my other half 5 years and we have both talked about saving for our own place (both at home at the moment). Like you, I earn a good bit more than him while he works 40hrs at just above minimum wage. I've told him numerous times he needs to be looking for a new job in order for us to realistically save a deposit. To me, it seems he tries only when I pressure him, gets an odd interview, never gets the job and expects me to back off because he's 'done his best'

I pay for nights out, weekends away, all we do together. It's either that or we don't go out.
Anyway, what I've started to do is look after no 1, me. I've been going out with friends more, saving for MY future, letting him sit in if he's no money. Basically, letting him realise his income wont even allow for a few pints, never mind contributing to a household, kids etc.

Op, trust me, a short sharp shock is the way to go here. Frighten the bejesus out of him that you and your wallet are ready to walk, It's the only thing that will work. Your his equal partner, not his mammy.