Now Ye're Talking - To a Transgender Woman

orthsquel

You've given some excellent responses Deirdre, particularly as one response was to a question I had a similar question to ask!

If I understood correctly your birth cert is still in your birth identity including in a male name... I assume that what while you have legal recognition as a female, your passport is still in the male identity? Have I that correct? Has it prevented you from travelling while you are in transition (outside EU for example), or if you have travelled regardless as to which identity is on your passport (if that isn't relevant or where I am wrong), do you get much hassle from passport control when entering a country?

Also, given that it was your late 30s you discovered you are indeed transgender (as outlined in one of your first responses) do you regret not realising it sooner in your life, or is this actually for you, the "right time" in your life to be dealing with it? I'm sure there's no "right time" as such but would it have been better for you personally to have realised all this when you were younger, would it have made much difference in your quality of life, general happiness?

1moreyr

Hi Deirdre, great to talk to you. A couple of years ago a friend of mine was in a psychiatric ward and there was a person there who was about to transition from male to female and was explaining the lengthy psychiatric evaluation that is required before surgery. Is this still the case? This psychiatric ward was pretty horrific and I was appalled that a stay there was a requirement.

Also you mentioned Iran? I am not sure if I have this right but when I was researching a paper for college recently I came across a human rights website that was criticizing Iran for the forced gender reassignment that gay men had to undergo. My understanding of it was that it was seen as a cure for homosexuality and these men had no choice???

deirdre_dub

gozunda wrote: »

I am correct in understanding that this is where the concept of sis gender derives?

Cisgender is nothing other than the opposite of transgender.

Cis is a latin prefix meaning "on the same side of". Trans is a latin prefix meaning "on the other side of". So cisgender is the literal opposite of transgender - nothing more, nothing less.

deirdre_dub

Vojera wrote: »

Within the LGB community there can be a bit of anger from some people towards others who don't "conform" to wider societal ideals (for example, the queer community tends to be more open about the existence of polyamory, kink etc.) because they're afraid that if we're not all "normal" then we won't be accepted by society in general.

Is there a similar feeling in the trans community towards those who don't "pass" as well, or those who are genderqueer, etc? And is there ever a superiority complex from people who've "completed" their transitions over those who decide that they don't need surgery to feel comfortable in their bodies?

Yes, unfortunately.

The "hierarchy" in some quarters in the transgender "community" really angers me sometimes. In that hierarchy, I'm towards the "top" as a transitioning transgender woman, and cross-dressers are towards the "bottom". And those who don't need surgery can be seen by some as "pretenders". It really sickens me.

We are all people - in particular, we are all people who break the gender binary - people who say that our need to express ourselves is more important than the social expectations imposed on us. As far as I am concerned, anyone who does that, in whatever measure, is an important ally, not to mention a courageous and beautiful person.

There can be particular tensions with drag queens - as drag queens tend to be quite visible, and their experience of gender bears no resemblance to mine. But as far as I am concerned, they have as much right to express who they are as I have to express who I am, and their greater visibility and their different experience of gender is something that I need to take on board as a call to arms to make myself more visible.

deirdre_dub

orthsquel wrote: »

If I understood correctly your birth cert is still in your birth identity including in a male name... I assume that what while you have legal recognition as a female, your passport is still in the male identity? Have I that correct?

Nope! I'm happy to report that my passport has "Gender: F" on it.

I had to present myself to the passport office, at a particular booth, with a letter from my endocrinologist, and my deed poll, in order to get that passport.

Has it prevented you from travelling while you are in transition (outside EU for example), or if you have travelled regardless as to which identity is on your passport (if that isn't relevant or where I am wrong), do you get much hassle from passport control when entering a country?

I got a bit of hassle when I was returning home from Canada a few years ago.

The story is - my flight to Dublin was delayed. I was sent to a hotel. At that stage, my beard was beginning to show itself, so I had to ask the hotel staff if they had a razor (as I had my own razor in my checked luggage). They did, but I ended up hacking my face to pieces with it.

When I returned to the airport the following morning, I had a hacked face, and the tiredness meant that my male voice was beginning to re-assert itself. Anyway, I had my dilator (a medical device used to keep my neo-vagina open, which I have to use twice a week) in my hand luggage (it costs something like EUR 200). The customs inspector wanted to know what it was, so I told him. He said he had to ask his supervisor if I was allowed to carry it on the airplane (and I didn't have any idea what the hell I was going to do if the supervisor said "no").

The customs inspector came back, and said "yes, sir, you can take that on board with you" :mad:

But that's the only bad experience I've had while travelling. I've heard of much worse - a British comedian trans woman was sent to a male prison from that same airport when it was discovered that she had previously out-stayed a visa.

Also, given that it was your late 30s you discovered you are indeed transgender (as outlined in one of your first responses) do you regret not realising it sooner in your life, or is this actually for you, the "right time" in your life to be dealing with it? I'm sure there's no "right time" as such but would it have been better for you personally to have realised all this when you were younger, would it have made much difference in your quality of life, general happiness?

Yes - I wish I had transitioned sooner! It would have made a *HUGE* difference to my quality of life.

But I was probably not psychologically ready for it.

deirdre_dub

1moreyr wrote: »

Hi Deirdre, great to talk to you. A couple of years ago a friend of mine was in a psychiatric ward and there was a person there who was about to transition from male to female and was explaining the lengthy psychiatric evaluation that is required before surgery. Is this still the case?

Oh yes!

If I had gotten surgery with the HSE, I would have ended up with 5 independent diagnoses of "gender identity disorder". As it was - going to Thailand - paying for it myself - I ended up with "only" 4. :mad:

Also you mentioned Iran? I am not sure if I have this right but when I was researching a paper for college recently I came across a human rights website that was criticizing Iran for the forced gender reassignment that gay men had to undergo. My understanding of it was that it was seen as a cure for homosexuality and these men had no choice???

Yes - that is the other side of Iran's official acceptance of transgender people, and it is dreadfully wrong.

Vojera

I've another question, if you don't mind. Do you feel that trans rights have been done a disservice by the way that T has been stuck on the end of LGB? After all, sexuality and gender are not the same thing. Do you think groups claiming to be LGBT-representative put enough emphasis on the trans part or do they just pay lip service to it while groups like TENI do all the heavy lifting?

deirdre_dub

Vojera wrote: »

I've another question, if you don't mind. Do you feel that trans rights have been done a disservice by the way that T has been stuck on the end of LGB? After all, sexuality and gender are not the same thing.

That is true - sexuality and gender are completely independent. However, the way that sexual and gender minorities are treated by society have too much in common for LGB and T people to not collaborate.

One area of current topical collaboration is marriage equality. The gender recognition legislation currently working its way through the system will require married transgender people whose marriage survived transition to choose between their marriage and getting their gender recognised. The Government has said that married transgender people must divorce before getting their gender recognised lest we create same-sex marriages. :eek: :mad:

There are all sorts of fault lines even within the LGB community. Bisexuals are constantly (and correctly) complaining of erasure and biphobia within the community. But there are people who see the big picture and who are trying to move things forward, both from within and in terms of social justice.

Do you think groups claiming to be LGBT-representative put enough emphasis on the trans part or do they just pay lip service to it while groups like TENI do all the heavy lifting?

5 years ago, I would have answered that question with a resounding "yes".

Today I think LGB organisations by and large are at least beginning to cop on. It helps that transgender issues are in fashion at the moment. I think it will be quite a while yet before LGB organisations will be doing heavy lifting without needing to collaborate with trans organisations in order to at least get feedback that they are doing it right.

deirdre_dub

deirdre_dub wrote: »

The Government has said that married transgender people must divorce before getting their gender recognised lest we create same-sex marriages. :eek: :mad:

... which means that as a bisexual transgender woman, I won't be getting my gender recognised until either marriage equality comes to transgender people, or until I find myself wanting to marry a man, because I'd like to be able to marry a woman should I find myself wanting to do so.

deirdre_dub

Since the issue of travel came up, if I may, I'll tell the story of my first time visiting relatives in Canada.

It was before I started medical transition, but after I started social transition. Naturally I presented as male for the journey to and from Canada, and I decided to use the liberalism in Canadian society to help my social transition by presenting as female at times when I was over there. (The relatives weren't involved in this - long story - I couldn't come out to them at the time - I've since done so, and they are all great).

I also decided to get travel insurance, and on the insurance form it asked about current medical conditions. At this stage I had 3 of those 4 independent diagnoses of Gender Identity Disorder that I mentioned above, so I decided to put that down on the form.

I can't remember how it happened, but I ended up in a phone call with an official from the travel insurance company. She was asking me about this thing "Gender Identity Disorder". I explained it - even using that horrid phrase "born in the wrong body (ugh)" - but she wasn't getting it. Eventually she gave up and said "you won't be covered for that in Canada"!

As one of my friends said - "whatever you do, don't go skiing in Canada in a dress"!

Transition can be really really funny at times.

nibtrix

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you want to get your birth cert changed?

You explained very clearly that despite being born with "a male chromosomal gender, a male biological gender, a male genital gender, a male birth cert, a male legal gender, male gender expression (imposed on me)" you had a female gender identity.

I understand what you are saying, but as you were born legally male, and your birth cert is a historical representation of that, I don't understand what good changing it would do? Are you requesting that it be completely changed to show "Gender: Female", or annotated to show that you were assigned the wrong gender at birth?

deirdre_dub

nibtrix wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you want to get your birth cert changed?

Because I'm "outed" as transgender every time I use it. This most recently happened when I was getting my social welfare card. The social welfare clerk was on the computer, obviously struggling with something, asking me about my name, my maiden name, how to spell it etc. Eventually I copped that she was looking for my birth cert, so I had to tell her that Deirdre is not my birth name, and that I'm transgender, and all the rest of it. It was a very very uncomfortable experience for both of us.

You explained very clearly that despite being born with "a male chromosomal gender, a male biological gender, a male genital gender, a male birth cert, a male legal gender, male gender expression (imposed on me)" you had a female gender identity.

I understand what you are saying, but as you were born legally male, and your birth cert is a historical representation of that

The historical record is going to be kept by the Government - don't worry about that! It's just not going to be kept on my birth cert. The details are in the gender recognition legislation.

Look - I need for there to be a paper trail between Deirdre and the person I spent almost 40 years trying to be. "He" created an awful lot of things - leaving certs, degrees, legal contracts, earnings, taxes - that I need to be able to access. It is in everyone's interest - mine included - that the historical record be kept somewhere. But it's also in everyone's interest - mine included - that it only be accessed as necessary. And it's not necessary for that historical record to be accessed when I'm getting my social welfare card or my passport or anything else that the birth cert is used for.

I don't understand what good changing it would do?

I hope I've explained that.

Are you requesting that it be completely changed to show "Gender: Female", or annotated to show that you were assigned the wrong gender at birth?

I'm requesting that it be changed completely - there is no need whatsoever for it to contain details of an (understandable) mistake made by the doctor when he looked between my legs over 45 years ago.

nibtrix

Thanks Deirdre, great answer re the birth cert. I haven't needed my birth cert in so long that I didn't think of things like that.

Another quick question, how did you pick your new name? Is it in any way similar to the name you were given at birth, or is it just a name you liked? Did you enjoy picking out a new name?

MrWalsh

Actually your last response has made me think of a question.

I am married and generally use either my single surname or my married surname depending on situation. In work I still use my single surname because all of my academic stuff is in my single surname (even more recent qualifications because I wanted them all to have the same name). Its easy for me because legally I can switch between names as I wish.

How does this work for you? How is your degree related to who you now are? I suppose the issue exists for anyone who changes their forename by deed poll.

If youd been named an androgynous type name at birth, like Adrian, would you still have chosen a more "female" name when you transitioned?

deirdre_dub

nibtrix wrote: »

Thanks Deirdre, great answer re the birth cert. I haven't needed my birth cert in so long that I didn't think of things like that.

It's one of the many varied and interesting challenges of legal gender change

Another quick question, how did you pick your new name? Is it in any way similar to the name you were given at birth, or is it just a name you liked? Did you enjoy picking out a new name?

I'm unusual in that I put basically no thought into my new name. Most transgender people put quite a bit of thought it, and it's not unusual to hear transgender people changing their name more than once.

I was 39 years old, I had just decided to accept that I'm transvestite (as I thought at the time), and it was the night before my first night out on the transgender scene in Dublin. I was lying in bed about to fall asleep, when I thought to myself that whereas my birth name can be made into an androgynous name, to me it was a male name, and if I had a female name, what would it be? Remember that I thought I was transvestite - I didn't realise I was picking a name that would be my legal name for the rest of my life! Anyway, I rattled off a few names, "Deirdre" was one of them, I thought to myself "that's nice", and I fell asleep.

The following night, in the transgender club, I was asked for my name. I innocently gave the androgynous version of my birth name. I was asked "is that your male name or your female name"? I didn't actually realise that transvestites pick a female name for themselves, so I said "male name". I then remembered the previous night, and I said "my female name is Deirdre". "Well hello, Deirdre" was the response.

So less than 24 hours after thinking of the name, I was called "Deirdre" for the first time

Of course when I realised that I was transgender, and that I have a cousin with exactly the same name, I thought "I'd better change it". But at that stage, the name "Deirdre" had gained traction, and I'm a lazy bitch anyway

But if I had changed it, it would have been "Katherine", and it's a long (and lovely) story as to why. So I've compromised - "Katherine" is now my middle name

deirdre_dub

MrWalsh wrote: »

I am married and generally use either my single surname or my married surname depending on situation. In work I still use my single surname because all of my academic stuff is in my single surname (even more recent qualifications because I wanted them all to have the same name). Its easy for me because legally I can switch between names as I wish.

How does this work for you? How is your degree related to who you now are? I suppose the issue exists for anyone who changes their forename by deed poll.

There are two classes of documents that I need to change - those with my name, and those with my name and gender. When it comes to changing my gender on the latter documents, I usually just flash my passport at them (with its lovely "Gender: F" on it), and that's usually enough to get them to change it.

Changing my name - it depends. I recently ordered a copy of my leaving cert. I said on the order that I had changed my name, but when I got the cert it was still in my old name (and the letter in which it was sent to me was addressed to "him" ). So I now have to find out what the Dept. of Education require from me before they will change it.

My degree - I have to return the parchment I got at the time, with a copy of my deed poll, and they will give me a new parchment. But I believe other colleges have more difficult procedures than that.

In general, I find that if I just tell people the situation, they will change my name, though many will ask to see a copy of my deed poll.

One of the documents I had to change was my TV Licence. I rang the TV Licence people, and told them about my change of name. I got a welcome "that's no problem ma'am - but if I may ask you a personal question - why are you changing your name?". I decided to tell him I could hear him squirming on the other end of the line :pac:

If youd been named an androgynous type name at birth, like Adrian, would you still have chosen a more "female" name when you transitioned?

I was actually using the androgynous version of my birth name. But for me it was a male name, so I changed it, as every time I heard it I saw "man" in my head.

scudzilla

What's your favourite type of cheese?

tailgunner

deirdre_dub wrote: »

... which means that as a bisexual transgender woman, I won't be getting my gender recognised until either marriage equality comes to transgender people, or until I find myself wanting to marry a man, because I'd like to be able to marry a woman should I find myself wanting to do so.

Hi Deirdre, could you elaborate on what you mean by marriage equality for transgender people?

I would have thought that as a transgender woman, you are currently able to marry a man. And (assuming the legislative changes go ahead) in the near future, you'll also be able to marry a woman. Surely this means that equality will thus exist for transgender people, regardless of their sexuality?

I hope I'm not missing something obvious...

Thanks for your answers so far by the way, really interesting and informative!

MrWalsh

The only transgender actress I am familiar with is the lady in Orange is the New Black. They did a little of her back story in the show and they actually used her identical twin brother to play her before transition (which was very useful that she had a twin!). It got me thinking about that whole "if an identical twin committed a crime and left DNA you couldnt prove which twin did it".

If you committed a crime and left some DNA behind would the police be looking for a man? Could you be the perfect criminal

deirdre_dub

scudzilla wrote: »

What's your favourite type of cheese?

I was in Wensleydale two years ago, and I love some of the things they do with their cheeses. If I remember correctly, the apricot, and the caramelised onion, were my two favorites. Yum.

deirdre_dub

tailgunner wrote: »

I would have thought that as a transgender woman, you are currently able to marry a man.

Nope. I'm currently able to marry a woman! And the reason is because marriage is based on the gender on your birth cert.

And (assuming the legislative changes go ahead) in the near future, you'll also be able to marry a woman. Surely this means that equality will thus exist for transgender people, regardless of their sexuality?

If marriage equality comes in, then I can marry whomever I want. But without marriage equality, I can marry a woman without getting my gender recognised, and a man if I were to get my gender recognised (under the current proposals).

I hope I'm not missing something obvious...

The only thing you are missing is how complicated our politicians make things for the people they serve.....

Thanks for your answers so far by the way, really interesting and informative!

Thanks - glad to hear it!

deirdre_dub

MrWalsh wrote: »

The only transgender actress I am familiar with is the lady in Orange is the New Black. They did a little of her back story in the show and they actually used her identical twin brother to play her before transition (which was very useful that she had a twin!). It got me thinking about that whole "if an identical twin committed a crime and left DNA you couldnt prove which twin did it".

If you committed a crime and left some DNA behind would the police be looking for a man? Could you be the perfect criminal

I've thought of that too!

Every time I see CSI, and the DNA guy comes in an says "you are looking for a man", I'm, like, "nope - not necessarily!"

But it's an issue not only with transgender people. There are some intersex conditions whereby someone with the Y chromosome can naturally develop into a woman (even, in rare cases, a fertile woman), and someone without the Y chromosome can naturally develop into a man.

tailgunner

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Nope. I'm currently able to marry a woman! And the reason is because marriage is based on the gender on your birth cert.

Or a transgender man?

deirdre_dub wrote: »

The only thing you are missing is how complicated our politicians make things for the people they serve.....

You're right - utterly confusing!

eviltwin

Is there much support for the family and friends of a transgender person? I'd imagine it must be like a bereavement in some ways. Is that support easy to find?

deirdre_dub

tailgunner wrote: »

Or a transgender man?

You win!!!

You're right - utterly confusing!

Yup - sure is!

Aln_S

Another question if you don't mind!

You have said a few times that what's between your legs is not important and that it didn't define your gender. I take it from your posts though that you have had gender reassignment surgery (if that's the correct name). Did you feel that this was something you needed to do to complete your physical transition or could you share a little on your thinking behind this.

Thanks

deirdre_dub

eviltwin wrote: »

Is there much support for the family and friends of a transgender person? I'd imagine it must be like a bereavement in some ways. Is that support easy to find?

There is a group called transparentci which is for the families of transgender people. You can find them through teni

No-one dies when someone transitions. Indeed, it is my experience and the experience of many many others that transition is life-saving.

Family members reactions are in two broad categories - transphobic, and accepting, with the former being more common than the latter.

Amongst non-transphobic reactions, there can be some mourning if, for example, the father was really looking forward to walking his daughter down the aisle.

But after the initial shock, and adjustment, and mourning is dealt with, what families are left with is a child / sibling who is much much happier, and who has a much brighter future ahead of them. And that is celebrated by those who truly love the transgender person.

In my case, I would have to guess the initial reaction of my father was one of worry - he didn't know if I could make a life as a female "work", and he was dreadfully afraid that I would be the victim of transphobic violence. But as time passed, he saw that my life as a female works better than my life as a male, and that whereas transphobic violence is there, it is nowhere near as big a deal as he had feared. I don't know if he mourned anything - I doubt it - I was 40 at the time!

As for friends - it's complicated. Again there are transphobic and accepting reactions, and I think most reactions are accepting.

Having said that, I kinda lost my closest friend at the time. One of our mutual friends told me that as far as he was concerned, he was fine with me, but there were some friends of his who, if they transitioned, it would freak him out. I think he was saying that there is a different dynamic for many heterosexual men in male-male close platonic friendships than there is in male-female close platonic friendships, and I think that may be why I sort-of lost that friend.

deirdre_dub

Aln_S wrote: »

You have said a few times that what's between your legs is not important and that it didn't define your gender. I take it from your posts though that you have had gender reassignment surgery (if that's the correct name). Did you feel that this was something you needed to do to complete your physical transition or could you share a little on your thinking behind this.

First - I don't like talking publicly about my genitals. It's kinda a private part of me - it's called "your privates" for a reason. It's quite personal. It's something that's only the business of me and those I'm in intimate relationships with and those who are exploring the possibility of an intimate relationship.

But - the question is a good one, and it needs to be addressed.

Speaking for myself, the main interest I have in GCS (Gender Confirmation Surgery) is the removal of testes, which means that my body stops producing massive quantities of testosterone, and so I can stop taking some expensive powerful drugs which stop my natural testosterone production. The second main interest I have is that I can use the female changing rooms (as the male changing rooms are out of the question due to how I look) without fear of exposing the other occupants to something they are not expecting. And the third main interest is the realisation that the reason why I've had so much trouble with my sexuality all my life is because I've had the "wrong" junk.

But that's just me, though many other transgender people will say something similar, though maybe not in that order.

In general - you have to realise how big that surgery is. Obviously surgery itself is only a few hours or something, but there is a 2 week or so period where you are pretty bedridden, maybe 6 weeks where you find it difficult to walk, and an absolute ton of aftercare. The aftercare takes maybe 2.5 hours per day for the first 3 months, maybe an hour a day for the first year, and maybe 1.5 hours a week for the rest of your life. You are not going to go through that unless you see it as necessary.

There are many options. A popular option is a cosmetic job - giving you something that looks like female genitals - but without the massive amount of aftercare in particular. Another option is orchiectomy - removal of the testes - which some transgender women get just to get rid of that damn testosterone. Everyone is different.

But here's the thing. What really "gets" me is the way that whenever we talk about transgender surgery, everyone looks between the legs. GCS is not the most important transgender surgery there is - the most important is FFS (facial feminisation surgery). Only a small number of transgender women get that surgery, but the impact on their lives is far greater than GCS, as many more people see your face than your junk! A trachea shave can also be very important to those with a prominent apple. I think I counted 8 trans-specific surgeries that are available. I'm still considering if I need breast augmentation. Why might I need it? Same reason why any woman with a flat chest might need it ...

FFS? Thanks for asking! They break every bone in your face, and re-set them, in such a way that you have more feminine features. I've seen the pictures of a friend of mine who had it - she looked like she went a few rounds with Mike Tyson until it healed.

But surgeries are not, by a long margin, the most important medical intervention - HRT is. The difference those little blue pills make to my life is astounding.

And medical transition is not the most important or most difficult and fraught transition - social transition is! So I think you can see why I sometimes go "oh not again!" when people start talking about GCS.

MrWalsh

deirdre_dub wrote: »

FFS? Thanks for asking! They break every bone in your face, and re-set them, in such a way that you have more feminine features. I've seen the pictures of a friend of mine who had it - she looked like she went a few rounds with Mike Tyson until it healed.

I always thought they "shaved" the bones somehow....... not sure which sounds worse tbh!!

deirdre_dub

MrWalsh wrote: »

I always thought they "shaved" the bones somehow....... not sure which sounds worse tbh!!

Well, I could be behind the times with that one - maybe the surgery has evolved since. But I can remember the picture of my friend who had just gone through it, and she didn't look too healthy at the time...