Wales vs Ireland buildup [MOD WARNING POST #8]

timaru89

timaru89 wrote: »

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-only-six-8765818

Welsh article making a composite team of both nations. 9 Welsh v 6 Irish. More than a hint of bias!

Seems fair enough to be honest

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Seems fair enough to be honest

Yeah there's a few marginal calls that go the way of the Welsh player (or the most experienced player) which is to be expected. Nothing to really get worked up about at all. I might argue the LH call somewhat but again how much of that is bias on my part I'm not sure.

thomond2006

Zebo over Delon Williams. This journo wins.

total former

Yeah, it's fair enough really. I think all Welsh people overrate Gethin Jenkins who is well past his best, and I'm not sure Samson Lee has really proved himself yet, but meh, not much to be outraged over.

sydthebeat

total former wrote: »

Yeah, it's fair enough really. I think all Welsh people overrate Gethin Jenkins who is well past his best, and I'm not sure Samson Lee has really proved himself yet, but meh, not much to be outraged over.

agreed...

horses for courses as well.

still think warburton is a very over rated rugby player

bilston

timaru89 wrote: »

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-only-six-8765818

Welsh article making a composite team of both nations. 9 Welsh v 6 Irish. More than a hint of bias!

I don't see much controversy here. You could make the odd argument here and there but it isn't an unreasonable selection.

Just on the 20 point win last year, we shouldn't forget that most of that Welsh were on the come down after the Lions, it was always likely to be a tough year for them. They look in much better shape this year.

Jeepers this could be as tight as '09 lads.

total former

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed...

horses for courses as well.

still think warburton is a very over rated rugby player

Actually I was momentarily outraged by that, but then he says that Warburton is picked because of O'Brien's injury problems, and it's hard to argue there.

timaru89

A giant marquee with Warren G's face on it will be erected

bilston wrote: »

Jeepers this could be as tight as '09 lads.

Hopefully not too tight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wrp4c-x95w. Don't think heart would be able for a repeat of that.

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed...

horses for courses as well.

still think warburton is a very over rated rugby player

Warburton put paid to that ridiculous notion (which seems more common in Ireland than elsewhere for some reason?) during the Lions tour. In terms of tight play he's just unparalleled in Europe (except maybe l'Armitage obese when he's on form, which isn't exactly common).

I don't think you can really compare him to O'Brien directly though, that's not really comparing like with like, but if I had to choose one in a vacuum it would be SOB.

Quint2010

Closed

Wales might have better players but Ireland have a better team (and coach). Give me the latter any day.

shuffol

Quint2010 wrote: »

Wales might have better players but Ireland have a better team (and coach). Give me the latter any day.

Yep, and at what point do guys that are playing better just accepted as better players. It's hard to call.

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

Yep, and at what point do guys that are playing better just accepted as better players. It's hard to call.

I really don't buy the notion that Wales have better players that gets repeated everywhere. Comparable sure but they're not noticeably better than us in any area except maybe centre, and I think closing that gap is just a matter of time

corny

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Warburton put paid to that ridiculous notion (which seems more common in Ireland than elsewhere for some reason?) during the Lions tour. In terms of tight play he's just unparalleled in Europe (except maybe l'Armitage obese when he's on form, which isn't exactly common).

That's an exaggeration. One game (third Lions test) doesn't cement his position as the premier anything in Europe.

He's robust at the breakdown and every now and again a few fancy turnovers go his way but he brings little else if we're comparing him to SOB.

Have nothing against Warburton mind you. Honest lad who'll play hard when the chips are down. Also, he was made for Gatland and his game plan.

irishbucsfan

corny wrote: »

That's an exaggeration. One game (third Lions test) doesn't cement his position as the premier anything in Europe.

He's robust at the breakdown and every now and again a few fancy turnovers go his way but he brings little else if we're comparing him to SOB.

Have nothing against Warburton mind you. Honest lad who'll play hard when the chips are down. Also, he was made for Gatland and his game plan.

He didn't play the 3rd test, so I'm fairly sure that game definitely wouldn't have affected his reputation much either way.

However every other game he plays does, including the other two tests where he was among the best players on the pitch, and that's probably why he's rated so highly. If he didn't bring much outside the breakdown he probably wouldn't end up as captain of every team he ever comes into contact with!

Yeah_Right

Have to say I think Warburton is a bit over-hyped. Very good player but not as good as some in the media make him out to be. i think his captaincy helps cement his starting spot for Wales otherwise Tipuric might get more game time.

Neil3030

Swiwi. wrote: »

If a Kiwi said this...

Sexton I'll give you. No-one has yet explained to me why Murray is definitively better than Smith, and why Schmidt is definitively better than Hansen. There is an extremely lazy perception that the village idiot could coach the ABs, heck the team just saunters up on the Saturday and wins with no training, preparation, gameplan etc.

There once was a man named Joe, who took a team that lost in Rome, put Dave Kearney in it, and won the Six Nations.

I believe this argument is now put to bed.

TommyOM

Could Sexton be a bigger factor than Joe in Ireland and Leinster's success?

What's Ireland's win/loss ratio on games where Sexton has started?

Hagz

TommyOM wrote: »

Could Sexton be a bigger factor than Joe in Ireland and Leinster's success?

What's Ireland's win/loss ratio on games where Sexton has started?

He is absolutely a bigger factor in Leinster and Ireland's success.

I think the win loss ratio is like 22/20.

matthew8

Sexton's more important because the replacements are unsatisfactory. If Schmidt had to leave the job Ireland would be able to hire a coach who can coach an international side to a reasonable level. Sexton's replacements are playing poorly so he'd be a big loss, but if Ireland had a healthy and in form Jackson I think they'd still stand a pretty good chance at winning the 6 nations.

jm08

TommyOM wrote: »

Could Sexton be a bigger factor than Joe in Ireland and Leinster's success?

What's Ireland's win/loss ratio on games where Sexton has started?

I think a healthy POC has been a huge factor. He has missed one game against Scotland since Schmidt has become coach.

The the42.ie has done some analysis - some unbelievable stuff from him (like leading player being first to the ruck and 2nd) apart from his leadership etc.


http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-england-rucks-1971929-Mar2015/

Idbatterim

this from an english website! 61% of bets backing Ireland, I prefer when people put their money where their mouth is...


http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/six-nations/wales-v-ireland/winner

gosplan

The only time Ireland seem vulnerable is when the opposition send on 20 stone ball carrying monsters in the last 15 mins.

Or overall where the opposition can still smash it up against a tired team.

How are Wales in this regard?

Regarding the Sexton/Joe debate, I say Joe. Give him a year and he'd have the team playing fine without Sexton.

No other coach has ever solved the Irish psychological problem. We're going around acting like winners rather than losers having an off-day.

Kidney, Eddie etc all had teams this good to work with but never produced this.

Idbatterim

what I dont get in the last twenty is why Ireland always kick, why not keep ball in hand? We just seem to invite a wave of attack and heart in mouth stuff!

.ak

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I dont get in the last twenty is why Ireland always kick, why not keep ball in hand? We just seem to invite a wave of attack and heart in mouth stuff!

I suppose the kick chase is harder. Wingers being asked if them for 80 must be tough. But tactically speaking I think it's the right call.

total former

gosplan wrote: »

The only time Ireland seem vulnerable is when the opposition send on 20 stone ball carrying monsters in the last 15 mins.

Or overall where the opposition can still smash it up against a tired team.

How are Wales in this regard?

Regarding the Sexton/Joe debate, I say Joe. Give him a year and he'd have the team playing fine without Sexton.

No other coach has ever solved the Irish psychological problem. We're going around acting like winners rather than losers having an off-day.

Kidney, Eddie etc all had teams this good to work with but never produced this.

I have very little respect left for Kidney but in 2009 we were in a fantastic vein of form. Eddie had us playing rugby in 06-07 that we have never matched under Joe. Subsequent events took the sheen off those achievements but they shouldn't be forgotten.

chupacabra

total former wrote: »

I have very little respect left for Kidney but in 2009 we were in a fantastic vein of form. Eddie had us playing rugby in 06-07 that we have never matched under Joe. Subsequent events took the sheen off those achievements but they shouldn't be forgotten.

The game has changed a fair bit too since 06-07

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

I have very little respect left for Kidney but in 2009 we were in a fantastic vein of form. Eddie had us playing rugby in 06-07 that we have never matched under Joe. Subsequent events took the sheen off those achievements but they shouldn't be forgotten.

Agreed. It should be noted though that the game is vastly different to 8 years ago. So it's hard to really compare. But relatively speaking Eddie had us playing some truly marvellous stuff prior to the 2007 RWC.

total former

chupacabra wrote: »

The game has changed a fair bit too since 06-07

Of course it has but the point was "Joe has us playing like winners, no other coach has managed that" and it's just not correct.

Tox56

total former wrote: »

I have very little respect left for Kidney but in 2009 we were in a fantastic vein of form. Eddie had us playing rugby in 06-07 that we have never matched under Joe. Subsequent events took the sheen off those achievements but they shouldn't be forgotten.

Well under eddie it was prettier but in terms of actual achievements I think 2014 and so far in 2015 has been at least as good as that 2006-07 period. In both periods there were good wins over SA and Aus and a good six nations, but a championship win and a win in Paris are in favour of Schmidt

timaru89

A giant marquee with Warren G's face on it will be erected

TommyOM wrote: »

What's Ireland's win/loss ratio on games where Sexton has started?

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