Wales vs Ireland buildup [MOD WARNING POST #8]

RuggieBear

sydthebeat wrote: »

just had a sneaky look over on gwlad forum and have seen these beauties











i must admit ... some of those comments have me flabbergasted... i dont see anything about our ruck play to be considers as such constant cheats??
do they not know you can ruck beyond the tackle, if you drive the first rucker back you move the offside line AND the gate back...... and flood the area then??? the ABs have been doing that for years.....

I'm not a fan of posting other forums' material here...What is said on other forums should be of no concern to here.

.ak

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Have to say I have never really rated Halfpenny as a counter-attacking FB. Maybe I just haven't watched him enough or am simply having a memory blank.

It's his biggest strength I'd have thought, although Wales have a history of blocking the chasers to give him a gap.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Heaslip's was a 4 week injury about 4 weeks before the Welsh game. It'll come down to luck really, it's touch and go.

Thing is, like before, if he doesn't train early on next week he won't play, regardless if he's fit on the day. Just can't see it happening. To be honest I think we'll be luck to see him back for Scotland.

sydthebeat

RuggieBear wrote: »

I'm not a fan of posting other forums' material here...What is said on other forums should be of no concern to here.

ok my bad

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Thing is, like before, if he doesn't train early on next week he won't play, regardless if he's fit on the day. Just can't see it happening. To be honest I think we'll be luck to see him back for Scotland.

He said he wanted to be available for selection that week, which I assumed meant training that week, but noone can be sure of where he is. I'm sure they'll try to get him out training on Monday.

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Thing is, like before, if he doesn't train early on next week he won't play, regardless if he's fit on the day. Just can't see it happening. To be honest I think we'll be luck to see him back for Scotland.

Mick Kearney sounded fairly positive on him last week.

George Hook

.ak wrote: »

It's his biggest strength I'd have thought, although Wales have a history of blocking the chasers to give him a gap.

You don't think goal-kicking is his biggest strength?

.ak

George Hook wrote: »

You don't think goal-kicking is his biggest strength?

I'm very weird about goal kicking. I'm not as obsessed about it as people tend to be, especially the media. It's a byproduct of the game. If you're a good kicker, fine. But truth is you only get into a kicking position by what you can achieve on the field. The fact he's absolutely lethal with ball in hand and thus can gain territory is more important for me than goal kicking.

S12b

Teferi wrote: »

I can take a loss against any team in the world but losing to Wales makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach. A small section of their fans are embarrassing, they have annoying bigots in their rugby media and I think their coaching ticket leave a lot to be desired in a variety of areas. I think there are quite a few things that are just plain unlikeable about Welsh rugby to be honest. That said, the vast majority of the players are absolute gents. This is always my most anticipated match of the tournament, I go absolutely Kevin Keegan for a victory.

Webbs wrote: »

To be honest if you asked majority of Welsh supporters they would say almost exactly the same as above just changing the word Ireland for Wales.
Its natural to want success against a team when for the past decade there has been nothing to separate them on the pitch. Both sets of supporters then look for the little things that annoy them to get worked up about.

Whatever about our media and fans (I think we're a reasonable bunch), could anybody really say our current management are anything but likeable??

George Hook

.ak wrote: »

I'm very weird about goal kicking. I'm not as obsessed about it as people tend to be, especially the media. It's a byproduct of the game. If you're a good kicker, fine. But truth is you only get into a kicking position by what you can achieve on the field. The fact he's absolutely lethal with ball in hand and thus can gain territory is more important for me than goal kicking.

That's a much better answer than I thought I was going to get. His positioning in the backfield has always generally been good too.

What's his form like at the moment, I haven't actually payed him much attention off late?

.ak

George Hook wrote: »

That's a much better answer than I thought I was going to get. His positioning in the backfield has always generally been good too.

What's his form like at the moment, I haven't actually payed him much attention off late?

He's had some moments of brilliance for Toulon but hasn't generally set the world alight. Probably due to a niggily injury. He has that permanent class though, and will always be good for some outrageously good catch or pass that'll catch you out.

Yeah_Right

Idbatterim wrote: »

if its it cheating, do they not deem the ref to be the best judge of that, or do they feel they know better?!

Now you know how Richie McCaw feels

Celly Smunt

I predict the welsh forwards will self implode and we shall win from cone.

Gonna throw a tenner on Bowe for the first try, he's been too quiet this season so I just have a sense he will storm this game this weekend.

rrpc

Closed

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I predict the welsh forwards will self implode and we shall win from cone.

Gonna throw a tenner on Bowe for the first try, he's been too quiet this season so I just have a sense he will storm this game this weekend.

Such a pity the game is not this weekend so...

Celly Smunt

rrpc wrote: »

Such a pity the game is not this weekend so...

You know what I mean, my apologies *tip of the hat*

Zzippy

Anyone saying Roberts doesn't have good hands must have forgotten the 2009 Lions tour - with a good 13 running the right support lines off him he can produce some superb offloads and put players away - himself and BOD ran some great lines off each other on that tour. Problem is Wales don't have a 13 in that mould and Roberts is used as a bosh merchant under Gatland - waste of his talent IMO.

Yeah_Right

.ak wrote: »

It's his biggest strength I'd have thought, although Wales have a history of blocking the chasers to give him a gap.

Like I said it could be just be just me having a memory blank or not watching him that much. You've probably seen a lot more of his play so I'll take your word for it.

Another poster commented that RK tends to return kicks into contact and I think this is part of the game plan. Run it to where his support is, take the tackle and recycle the ball. And he does this very well.
In NZ and Australia, the strategy is often to have support players get back behind the ball so as soon as its caught it can be shifted across the park searching for a break in the chasing line.

I don't think one strategy is necessarily better than the other. It just depends on the players you have and the tactics your coach wants. I would like to have seen RK in a side that used the other tactic though.

.ak

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Like I said it could be just be just me having a memory blank or not watching him that much. You've probably seen a lot more of his play so I'll take your word for it.

Another poster commented that RK tends to return kicks into contact and I think this is part of the game plan. Run it to where his support is, take the tackle and recycle the ball. And he does this very well.
In NZ and Australia, the strategy is often to have support players get back behind the ball so as soon as its caught it can be shifted across the park searching for a break in the chasing line.

I don't think one strategy is necessarily better than the other. It just depends on the players you have and the tactics your coach wants. I would like to have seen RK in a side that used the other tactic though.

Traditionally speaking that's how we play here too. Coaches will always tell you the back three work together in a pendulum motion, chasing back with every kick to support the catcher, moving off your wing as you do so.

What RK does is quite unique, and most Irish FBs don't have the bulk and pace to do what he does.

Wales might win this - but they will need probably their best performance in over a year to do it.

Ireland will show up with a game plan, they will be mentally and physically ready and they will be confident. I'm not confident of the win, I'm confident of the performance level and I think Ireland are at a stage now where they will always be very hard to beat.

You look at a team like the All Blacks, and they always expect to win - and they mostly do - but that confidence starts with the belief that they always know they are going to perform.

As a team I think we've certainly taken the first step. If we can push the winning streak out to 20 we may just take the second one.

ssaye2

Racing Metro confirm Sexton WON'T play for them this weekend after he suffered a hamstring strain in the win over England.
Ireland remain hopeful though that he'll be fit to face Wales a week on Friday.

George Hook

Racing Metro confirm Sexton WON'T play for them this weekend after he suffered a hamstring strain in the win over England.
Ireland remain hopeful though that he'll be fit to face Wales a week on Friday.

He's really not been good value for money for them.

Neil3030

I'm hoping I'm young enough that my psyche is not beyond repair from growing up on this pessimistic little rock. In two weeks we go to a venue, where historically we have been more successful than we have been at home, against the most predictable one-dimensional team in major rugby, who are coached by a man fueled solely by ego and bluster, who throughout his career has not displayed the slightest bit of recourse when his neanderthal gameplan doesn't work. We take with us the best coach, 9 and 10 on the planet, and a superior scrum, set-piece and maul. Our team are unbeaten in 10 games, playing out of their skin in terms of intensity, precision and castrating teams of their every identifiable strength; all the while polishing off the development of an unrivaled aerial attacking game that plays to our unique sporting cultural strengths...

... and yet people still doubt that we will win? People, I understand humility is a virtue, but we are surely demonstrating more of a pathological cultural mindset here if we can't summarize these available facts and arrive at the empirically supported conclusion that we will win, and that we will win comfortably.

Join me, Irishpersons! Come with me on a path toward the light!! The penal laws are gone, McQuaid is dead, the recession is over AND WE ARE GOING TO BASH THE RAREBIT OUT OF WALES!

George Hook

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm hoping I'm young enough that my psyche is not beyond repair from growing up on this pessimistic little rock. In two weeks we go to a venue, where historically we have been more successful than we have been at home, against the most predictable one-dimensional team in major rugby, who are coached by a man fueled solely by ego and bluster, who throughout his career has not displayed the slightest bit of recourse when his neanderthal gameplan doesn't work. We take with us the best coach, 9 and 10 on the planet, and a superior scrum, set-piece and maul. Our team are unbeaten in 10 games, playing out of their skin in terms of intensity, precision and castrating teams of their every identifiable strength; all the while polishing off the development of an unrivaled aerial attacking game that plays to our unique sporting cultural strengths...

... and yet people still doubt that we will win? People, I understand humility is a virtue, but we are surely demonstrating more of a pathological cultural mindset here if we can't summarize these available facts and arrive at the empirically supported conclusion that we will win, and that we will win comfortably.

Join me, Irishpersons! Come with me on a path toward the light!! The penal laws are gone, McQuaid is dead, the recession is over AND WE ARE GOING TO BASH THE RAREBIT OUT OF WALES!

Well I totally agree with this; but I think it's to do with us not putting a big score on teams that we have totally dominated. All the scores have been fairly tight and it only takes one or two little things not to go our way for us to be on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

We haven't even seen if the team can chase a lead yet! What if Wales catch us out at the start with a try or two!! Panic Panic!!

Teferi

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm hoping I'm young enough that my psyche is not beyond repair from growing up on this pessimistic little rock. In two weeks we go to a venue, where historically we have been more successful than we have been at home, against the most predictable one-dimensional team in major rugby, who are coached by a man fueled solely by ego and bluster, who throughout his career has not displayed the slightest bit of recourse when his neanderthal gameplan doesn't work. We take with us the best coach, 9 and 10 on the planet, and a superior scrum, set-piece and maul. Our team are unbeaten in 10 games, playing out of their skin in terms of intensity, precision and castrating teams of their every identifiable strength; all the while polishing off the development of an unrivaled aerial attacking game that plays to our unique sporting cultural strengths...

... and yet people still doubt that we will win? People, I understand humility is a virtue, but we are surely demonstrating more of a pathological cultural mindset here if we can't summarize these available facts and arrive at the empirically supported conclusion that we will win, and that we will win comfortably.

Join me, Irishpersons! Come with me on a path toward the light!! The penal laws are gone, McQuaid is dead, the recession is over AND WE ARE GOING TO BASH THE RAREBIT OUT OF WALES!

errlloyd

A giant marquee with Warren G's face on it will be erected

.ak wrote: »

I'm very weird about goal kicking. I'm not as obsessed about it as people tend to be, especially the media. It's a byproduct of the game. If you're a good kicker, fine. But truth is you only get into a kicking position by what you can achieve on the field. The fact he's absolutely lethal with ball in hand and thus can gain territory is more important for me than goal kicking.

Have to say .ak I disagree with you because I agree with you here. I agree with you because I think goal kicking is overrated. I think the marginal benefit of Halfpenny is only slightly greater than the marginal benefit of Sexton. I think the idea that teams are scared to give away penalties more because HP is there is laughable, unless the goal kicker is brutal, teams will never give away kickable penalties. And I actually think if that is your criteria, someone like Pieenar who can hit them from miles is a more effective deterrent.

But I just don't rate his attacking play at all. I would never put him on a fantasy team for instance. When he scores I feel it's because he pops up outside the wingers, unlike say Folou or La Roux who pop up in the 13-14 channel, or Kearney who often pops up between the 9-10 channel. I think he's quite slow, quite weak, I don't see him step a huge amount. He's just as liable to bury the head and charge as Kearney.

If I was picking the Welsh team (or the Toulon team) I'd be more than happy to Biggar (Giteau) as my kicker and Felon Williams (Felon Armitage) at Fullback and leave HP out.

EDIT: After writing this I decided to watch a highlights video to see if I was generally correct. Every international try he scores in this video (if you can tolerate the awful music) he scores by being the last man on the wing, catching the ball and running over and scoring. In a decent chunk of those the opposition is down to 14 men. Now he does set up one good try for Roberts with an offload, but it is the only one. Sure give him credit for getting there or whatever, but I don't think it's outrageously good attacking play. I think Liam Williams is a much more useful attacker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSiN9oYqmc

Swiwi.

A giant marquee with Warren G's face on it will be erected

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Now you know how Richie McCaw feels

Once you become (really) good at rugby, the insults fly. Suddenly Ireland will find the other nations sending barbs their way, just like the Welsh lads there flinging out the cheating accusations.

You've made it Ireland! Respect!

Swiwi.

A giant marquee with Warren G's face on it will be erected

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'm hoping I'm young enough that my psyche is not beyond repair from growing up on this pessimistic little rock. In two weeks we go to a venue, where historically we have been more successful than we have been at home, against the most predictable one-dimensional team in major rugby, who are coached by a man fueled solely by ego and bluster, who throughout his career has not displayed the slightest bit of recourse when his neanderthal gameplan doesn't work. We take with us the best coach, 9 and 10 on the planet, and a superior scrum, set-piece and maul. Our team are unbeaten in 10 games, playing out of their skin in terms of intensity, precision and castrating teams of their every identifiable strength; all the while polishing off the development of an unrivaled aerial attacking game that plays to our unique sporting cultural strengths...

... and yet people still doubt that we will win? People, I understand humility is a virtue, but we are surely demonstrating more of a pathological cultural mindset here if we can't summarize these available facts and arrive at the empirically supported conclusion that we will win, and that we will win comfortably.

Join me, Irishpersons! Come with me on a path toward the light!! The penal laws are gone, McQuaid is dead, the recession is over AND WE ARE GOING TO BASH THE RAREBIT OUT OF WALES!

If a Kiwi said this...

Sexton I'll give you. No-one has yet explained to me why Murray is definitively better than Smith, and why Schmidt is definitively better than Hansen. There is an extremely lazy perception that the village idiot could coach the ABs, heck the team just saunters up on the Saturday and wins with no training, preparation, gameplan etc.

You can probably argue that overall NZ has a better quality of player than Ireland, but then Ireland has made real strides in depth, and I don't just buy the idea anymore that Ireland is a team of average players lifted up to rugby heaven by God Schmidt, while Hansen is an average coach blessed with God-like players.

Murray & Sexton suit Ireland's game plan to a T. Smith and for me now probably Beauden Barrett (maybe Cruden, and not Slade nor Carter) suit NZ's game plan.

Outside of Ireland & NZ, the common perception in 2014 as far I could tell, was Sexton best 10 on the planet & Smith best 9.

What people forget in this discussion is that every single team on the planet lift their game by at least 10% when they play NZ, as for the moment it remains a highly sought after scalp. Even JS himself said he targetted the AB the most in his first few games. And the NZ public expects the team to play amazing running rugby every game. And generally, it is delivered to some degree.

To get back on topic, absolutely Ireland should expect to best Wales, for much of the reasons you outlined.

total former

Sure we all throw in the towel as soon as see the Haka.

Agree with all that btw.

Interested Observer

Murray and Smith are totally different players imo, I think it's difficult enough to compare them. Both suit the team they play in fairly perfectly.

On Schmidt/Hansen, I'm not going to declare Schmidt the best coach in the world but I think he definitely has a quite inferior group of players to pick from and he's worked wonders. Anyway it hardly matters.

Celly Smunt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wales might win this - but they will need probably their best performance in over a year to do it.

Ireland will show up with a game plan, they will be mentally and physically ready and they will be confident. I'm not confident of the win, I'm confident of the performance level and I think Ireland are at a stage now where they will always be very hard to beat.

You look at a team like the All Blacks, and they always expect to win - and they mostly do - but that confidence starts with the belief that they always know they are going to perform.

As a team I think we've certainly taken the first step. If we can push the winning streak out to 20 we may just take the second one.

I think the reality of it is that for the first time in possibly forever we wouldn't play a southern hemisphere team and expect a trashing or maybe even to lose. ATM the way we are playing, on the right they we could easily rival New Zealand, probably not win but definitely play a game with a chase in it and possibly keep the gap within single figures.

Australia dont frighten us anymore, another South African victory and our mentality would be the same. England are no longer feared and the only reason to fear any other team in the north is a slip on the wrong day.

We WILL get this grand slam, to give it up to a Gatland ran team would break my heart as much as the next person but I honestly feel we are giving wales far too much respect than they deserve on this thread. Yes they're good,but they're in the shadows of other teams we've proven to triumph over.