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Best Rimfire Cartridge?
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02-03-2015 10:40pm#1
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Two rounds come to mind.BrownTrout wrote: »What calibre would ye recommend to a rifle beginner (done a bit with the shotgun)?
The .17hmr and the .22lr. I've owned/own both. I done a post on these two before. I'll stick it here and see if it helps.
Most .22lr rounds are subsonic. With or without a suppressor they will be quieter because the bullet does not break the sound barrier and hence does not create as much noise. The .22lr is a great gun and excellent for bunnies and the occasional fox, but only to a certain distance.
The .17hmr rounds are supersonic. This means they will create a bang when fired. However if you were to fire a stinger or other such supersonic round in a .22lr then you'd get the exact same noise, the same instability in flight (in wind) as a hmr. The hmr ammo is more expensive, but when you are talking €17 for 50 hmr and €8 for 50 .22lr it's not going to break the bank.
Some comparisons (most are averages).
Cost | .22lr | .17hmr |
Per 50 | €8 | € 17 |
Speeds | .22lr | .17hmr |
fps | 1,050 | 2,200 |
Energy | .22lr | .17hmr |
Muzzle |98|217|
50 yd |86|181|
100 yd |78|147|
150 yd |71|120|
200 yd |65|97|
Drops | .22lr | .17hmr |
50 yd |0"|-0.25"|
100 yd | 6.5" - 8" |0"|
150 yd |24"|1.75"|
200 yd |52"|5"|
Side by side comparison with both set at 50 yard zero (instead of the above where the .17hmr has a 100 yard zero)
As can be seen from the tables & Ballistic chart above, the .17hmr:- Drops less over 200 yards than the .22 does from 50 to 80 yards.
- It carries a minimum of double the impact energy of the .22lr.
- In a 10mph, 90 degree crosswind, it has slightly less but almost the same wind drift as the .22lr.
- Has up to 3 times the accurate distance of the .22lr.
- For whatever use it is the 17hmr will cover the distance in half the time of the .22lr.
The only real different is noise. However comparing a supersonic round against a subsonic one is like comparing a Fiesta and a Ferrari because they are both cars. Plus i have a CZ in .17hmr, and a Savage 93r17 in .17hmr. The CZ uses a SAK mod and it quietens the crack but it's still fairly loud. The Savage has a T4 AR suppressor and it is VERY quiet. Much quieter than the CZ. Still not as quiet as a ,22lr with subsonics, but much quieter than i thought it would be.
Plus, as said above, if you do day time shooting where your distances can be much longer as you can see backstops, and shoot safer, you want something that'll not only reach the distance, but do it without having to sit down for 5 minutes and do maths, and then wonder if it'll do much more than tickle the animal when you hit it.
Lastly, if you are interested in target shooting then the .22lr is a necessity as .17hmr have no place in comps (rimfire ones). If this is not a concern then i'd be looking at the .17hmr. It's so good i bought two.
Savage 93r17
CZ 455
Yup.Also is it illegal to shoot a target outside of an authorised range to zero a gun for hunting?
It'd be a bad Garda that would do you for it especially considering the Minister for justice at the time said he never meant to ban zeroing outside a range for lads that are not members of a range. However he never changed the law and it still remains illegal.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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with a range finder which can correct for slope, a match grade rifle and ammunition, no wind, an impecably well laid out drop chart, and decent scope you can hit bunnys at 150 yards with subs all day..
'hdz
Fixed that for you.
Subs have dropped ~24" and are dropping ~0.5"/yard at that sort of range, hitting a 3" target from a cold shot would take some doing!
Not saying it can't be done, but you can't very well argue that it's any sort of alternative to the 17HMR which is dropping at 0.1"/yard at the same range and is only just outside its MPBR in any case.
I agree, there's no such thing as a best cartridge for all scenarios - and the 22LR is the absolute king inside 70 yards on small quarry, no question about it. I have one, I love it, and I'll never be without it.
If you want to get out past 120yards with confidence though, you need something faster, and the HMR in any flavour is supersonic out to ~230yards and still less than 50c a bang.0 -
extremetaz wrote: »Fixed that for you.
Subs have dropped ~24" and are dropping ~0.5"/yard at that sort of range, hitting a 3" target from a cold shot would take some doing!
Not saying it can't be done, but you can't very well argue that it's any sort of alternative to the 17HMR which is dropping at 0.1"/yard at the same range and is only just outside its MPBR in any case.
I agree, there's no such thing as a best cartridge for all scenarios - and the 22LR is the absolute king inside 70 yards on small quarry, no question about it. I have one, I love it, and I'll never be without it.
If you want to get out past 120yards with confidence though, you need something faster, and the HMR in any flavour is supersonic out to ~230yards and still less than 50c a bang.
I'd rather land 150 with subs than shoot 150 with the hmr..
great round and all but doesn't really serve its purpose as a trainer to me..
more fun shooting something more challenging..
lad on here shoots a cz 452 no match grade blah blue print blah bull crap and he is regularly out hitting 140-180 yards with hold overs on his scope bashing bunnys..
rather the challenge..
'hdz0 -
extremetaz wrote: »Fixed that for you.
Subs have dropped ~24" and are dropping ~0.5"/yard at that sort of range, hitting a 3" target from a cold shot would take some doing!
Not saying it can't be done, but you can't very well argue that it's any sort of alternative to the 17HMR which is dropping at 0.1"/yard at the same range and is only just outside its MPBR in any case.
I agree, there's no such thing as a best cartridge for all scenarios - and the 22LR is the absolute king inside 70 yards on small quarry, no question about it. I have one, I love it, and I'll never be without it.
If you want to get out past 120yards with confidence though, you need something faster, and the HMR in any flavour is supersonic out to ~230yards and still less than 50c a bang.
I have to agree with this
like someone starting out on 22lr with subs is going to zero at 50/80 yards and is not going to have the know how or be able to shoot it out to 120yds let alone 180yds.
but with the 17hmr you cant zero it 1" high at 100yds and thats going to give you more range without hold overs, just seems alot less frustrating and complicated trying to hit your target/rabbit0 -
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