IFA support ban on guns.

oldozer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Different rules certainly apply.
We are amongst the most tightly regulated shooters in Europe.
To get my gun licence I must provide references as to my character from two people of good standing in the community.
I must give the Gardaí permission to enter my home without a warrant at any time to inspect my gun safe and security set-up.
I must give the Gardaí permission to access my Doctors medical files relating to myself at any time.
I must prove to a Garda of Superintendent rank or higher my reason for needing such a firearm.
And them some person with no practical knowledge whatsoever o shooting watches Arnie in Terminator and decides I am a criminal in waiting, and revokes my licence and can confiscate my gun without compensation.
Did you have to do any of the above the last time you bought a car?

Do you have children? Ever been in Smiths Toymaster or Argos?
Ever seen those "Nerf Rebelle" toy crossbows that shoot a foam plastic blunt "arrow"
Ever bought one?
If so, you are in possession of a restricted firearm, and liable to a lengthy jail sentence and 20,000 Euro fine.
fecking Joke is what it is.

That lying turd of a shopkeep. He told me I needed to go to a center for to learn how to use a gun.

Then get the permission of at least 2 landowners.

Dozer.

Nekarsulm

oldozer wrote: »

That lying turd of a shopkeep. He told me I needed to go to a center for to learn how to use a gun.

Then get the permission of at least 2 landowners.

Dozer.

Sorry dozer, didn't mention those two items because in a farming forum, 99% have their own land to shoot on, and I'm old enough not to have had to do a course.................:)

oldozer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Sorry dozer, didn't mention those two items because in a farming forum, 99% have their own land to shoot on, and I'm old enough not to have had to do a course.................:)

Yah, twas sneaky an sorta loaded as I would be in the 1% bracket. Just on a flyin visit and seen this thread.
Also old enough to know most of the laws we have are written by Asses. Being a liker of guns and knowing how they work I think I should not need the qualification of owing land to own a gun.
Law should be equal to all in my thinking, but then if I need to hold up a bank I don't need to own land or a license.

Dozer.......

blue5000

I think there is something more sinister going on here.

Just look at the amount of garda time being spent putting in water meters. I'm beginning to think the Irish govt has got really scared about losing control of the general population. Mark my words, it won't be long until every guard in the country is armed and the rest of us, bar drug dealers/criminals will have nothing more than a pike to defend ourselves with, next they'll be trying to take pitch forks off us.

Fair play to you Neks for bringing this up, I hope you signed the petition last year.

Rosahane

A lot of the publicity and statements by the Garda and the politicians that support them with regard to these proposals focus on the theft of firearms and the public safety aspects of firearms "lying around behind doors and in haysheds" and in the boots of vehicles

It is very likely that the same legislation that bans all pistols, semi auto and pump action shotguns will also make it mandatory that all firearms are kept in a safe and possibly in a lockbox when being transported in a vehicle.

So, all those IFA members that have a shotgun are going to have to buy and install a gun safe to get their licence renewed!

Rosahane

blue5000 wrote: »

I think there is something more sinister going on here.

Just look at the amount of garda time being spent putting in water meters. I'm beginning to think the Irish govt has got really scared about losing control of the general population. Mark my words, it won't be long until every guard in the country is armed and the rest of us, bar drug dealers/criminals will have nothing more than a pike to defend ourselves with, next they'll be trying to take pitch forks off us.

Fair play to you Neks for bringing this up, I hope you signed the petition last year.

Have a read of this article that was in the Sunday Independent this week.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gunmans-bullet-struck-helmet-of-girl-6-travelling-on-moped-31030841.html

Outside of the main story it also states that effectively gun crime is only actively investigated for 48 hours and that they haven't achieved any convictions for any of the 12 gun crimes in dublin last year!

Yet enormous resources have been devoted to defending district and high court cases where licenced firearms holders - the most law abiding section of the community - had to take legal action to have their firearms licences renewed. This strategy has cost the state millions in legal costs and hugely in resources.

blue5000

Judging by the areas of the shootings I don't think too many farmers were involved in those murders, then again I could be wrong.

smokey-fitz

blue5000 wrote: »

Judging by the areas of the shootings I don't think too many farmers were involved in those murders, then again I could be wrong.

But farmers have the most potential to commit robberies.
Alot owe large amounts, make buttons for a living and own guns.
Maybe we could take on the army :P

Poor minister wont know which side to take

twin_beacon

Nekarsulm wrote: »

But John, why should a motorcyclist be allowed a bike bigger than 125 cc? , why should a motorist be allowed buy a car of more than 1000 cc? Why should a farmer be allowed to buy a jeep with a 3 litre engine, when a suzuki vitari can be bought with a 1.6 engine?
At the moment every autoloader shotgun must have a plug fitted to limit it to holding three cartridges. So far, so good. But the Gardai then decided that only guns coming from the factory with a capacity of three shots should be licenced. No factory on the planet make such a gun. It's like saying that only long wheelbase land cruisers with a 1.5 diesel engine should be allowed. They don't exist!

not really a fair comparison, motorbikes/cars/jeeps are not tools that can be used to kill people if they get into the wrong hands. If those guns are stolen, then I'm sure the people stealing them would remove the plug, and increase the cartridge capacity.

I'm on the fence about this to be honest. For the record, I don't shoot at all. I can see their reasoning behind banning those fire arms, but I would need to see some stats on how many licensed firearms that had been stored correctly in a safe have actually been stolen and used in crime. If that figure is high, and/or increasing, then I would back it. If the figure is very small, and not increasing then its just a PR stunt and I would not back it.

Nekarsulm

twin_beacon wrote: »

not really a fair comparison, motorbikes/cars/jeeps are not tools that can be used to kill people if they get into the wrong hands. If those guns are stolen, then I'm sure the people stealing them would remove the plug, and increase the cartridge capacity.

I'm on the fence about this to be honest. For the record, I don't shoot at all. I can see their reasoning behind banning those fire arms, but I would need to see some stats on how many licensed firearms that had been stored correctly in a safe have actually been stolen and used in crime. If that figure is high, and/or increasing, then I would back it. If the figure is very small, and not increasing then its just a PR stunt and I would not back it.

I would disagree with you on this point, highlighted above. Motorbikes, Cars and jeeps can certainly be used to kill or injure people when stolen.
The difference is, if my car is stolen and the thief runs down or hits a pedestrian and kills them, I will not be penalised for the results of a criminals actions.
The Gardaí will not prevent me from buying another car. I will not have to go to a Gardaí and prove increased security precautions in future, in order to buy again. There will be nothing to stop me wandering into the local Car Auctions, buying a €500 vehicle, often without Test or tax, and as long as I have the cash in my pocket, I will be on the road with no questions asked.

rangler1

twin_beacon wrote: »

not really a fair comparison, motorbikes/cars/jeeps are not tools that can be used to kill people if they get into the wrong hands. If those guns are stolen, then I'm sure the people stealing them would remove the plug, and increase the cartridge capacity.

I'm on the fence about this to be honest. For the record, I don't shoot at all. I can see their reasoning behind banning those fire arms, but I would need to see some stats on how many licensed firearms that had been stored correctly in a safe have actually been stolen and used in crime. If that figure is high, and/or increasing, then I would back it. If the figure is very small, and not increasing then its just a PR stunt and I would not back it.

Around 1300 guns stolen since 2010

Count Mondego

Typical facile gesture from both the Guards and IFA. Easy target that won't put up much of a fight and looks like they're being proactive fighting gun crime. The Irish justice system loves a soft touch.

I'd prefer if the guards had guns tbh, they mightn't be so cowardly if they had.

SVI40

rangler1 wrote: »

Around 1300 guns stolen since 2010

But those figures include anything classed as a firearm under our legislation. Humane killers, air guns, cross bows, replica firearms, de-activated firearms, air soft over 1 joule energy, the list goes on.

Sparks

aaakev wrote: »

no your not. Crossbows are classed as restricted, true. Nerf rebelle is a toy and doesn't even come close to being classed as a firearm in any which way, the same way as nerf guns were able to be bought before they changed the law to make rules for imitation firearms like pellet guns for airsoft.

The Nerf rebelle gets away with it because it's not a crossbow at all - the bowstring is connected to a piston so the whole thing acts like a springer airgun and blows the nerf dart away from the toy. So it's closer to an airsoft than anything else, but legally has no barrel so it's free of the entire mess.



This, on the other hand, readily available in dozens of toy stores in Ireland and obviously a toy, is still legally a restricted firearm because there's no minimum draw weight for a crossbow to be considered a firearm.

Sparks

SVI40 wrote: »

But those figures include anything classed as a firearm under our legislation. Humane killers, air guns, cross bows, replica firearms, de-activated firearms, air soft over 1 joule energy, the list goes on.

And they include many which are not licenced. Which could mean unsold stock in dealer's stores, army or Garda firearms, etc, etc. To say the statistics are opaque is an understatement.

Rosahane

SVI40 wrote: »

But those figures include anything classed as a firearm under our legislation. Humane killers, air guns, cross bows, replica firearms, de-activated firearms, air soft over 1 joule energy, the list goes on.

It also includes all firearms, including broken firearms that were stolen from raids on gun dealers, firearms stolen or lost from the defence forces, the Garda and the PSNI if they were down here.
They are quick to trot out the frightening numbers (which incidentally they had to correct almost immediately) but claimed that they were unable to give an exact breakdown of the figures.

Remember this for example, where two centre fire handguns which were handed in under an amnesty "got misplaced" in the Garda station and were subsequently used in a crime.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/amnesty-gun-falls-into-criminal-hands-26285671.html

Interestingly, they can't provide and details of the numbers of stolen firearms used in crime!

Reggie.

smokey-fitz wrote: »

But farmers have the most potential to commit robberies.
Alot owe large amounts, make buttons for a living and own guns.
Maybe we could take on the army :P

Poor minister wont know which side to take

Bring it on anytime smokey

blue5000

Reggie. wrote: »

Bring it on anytime smokey

Sure you'd be as confused as simon:D

twin_beacon

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I would disagree with you on this point, highlighted above. Motorbikes, Cars and jeeps can certainly be used to kill or injure people when stolen.
The difference is, if my car is stolen and the thief runs down or hits a pedestrian and kills them, I will not be penalised for the results of a criminals actions.
The Gardaí will not prevent me from buying another car. I will not have to go to a Gardaí and prove increased security precautions in future, in order to buy again. There will be nothing to stop me wandering into the local Car Auctions, buying a €500 vehicle, often without Test or tax, and as long as I have the cash in my pocket, I will be on the road with no questions asked.

well, you could apply that same logic to a hammer/shovel/grape....
Yes Motorbikes, Cars and jeeps can kill people, however they are not stolen for that purpose. If a gun is stolen, it will probably be used to take or threaten a life.

Reggie.

blue5000 wrote: »

Sure you'd be as confused as simon:D

This is true....never thought of that


I could be the man on the inside :P

Cattlepen

rangler1 wrote: »

Around 1300 guns stolen since 2010

If there were more Garda patrols and resources put into policing criminals rather than inflicting restrictive laws on law abiding people the number of stolen firearms would not be at this number. I'm finished with iFA for good for jumping on the nanny state bandwagon. Must have been a slow day at the press office to get involved in supporting this ****e

blue5000

Reggie. wrote: »

This is true....never thought of that


I could be the man on the inside :P

Double agent reggie, or should that be double barreled?

BoatMad

twin_beacon wrote: »

not really a fair comparison, motorbikes/cars/jeeps are not tools that can be used to kill people if they get into the wrong hands. If those guns are stolen, then I'm sure the people stealing them would remove the plug, and increase the cartridge capacity.

I'm on the fence about this to be honest. For the record, I don't shoot at all. I can see their reasoning behind banning those fire arms, but I would need to see some stats on how many licensed firearms that had been stored correctly in a safe have actually been stolen and used in crime. If that figure is high, and/or increasing, then I would back it. If the figure is very small, and not increasing then its just a PR stunt and I would not back it.

Its a PR stunt, the stats are not available and the AGS have made ": vague" statements. In my view most of this is to prevent Superintendents being dragged in to the courts again and again. ( and being embarrassed so doing)

The whole sport of target shooting is under treat and the IFA are being their usual self centred selves. Yet security on farmer owned shotguns is the lowest of all categories of licensed firearms ( funny that).

Every shooter in this country needs to return their countryside alliance stuff.

BoatMad

twin_beacon wrote: »

well, you could apply that same logic to a hammer/shovel/grape....
Yes Motorbikes, Cars and jeeps can kill people, however they are not stolen for that purpose. If a gun is stolen, it will probably be used to take or threaten a life.

No stats have actually been put forward that show accurately what firearms are being stolen , what grades of firearms and from where and if these firearms are being used in criminal acts.

Most sporting firearms are of very little use to the average armed criminal, excluding shotguns( which can be sawn off) , yet I see no focus on stolen shotguns.

SVI40

BoatMad wrote: »

Every shooter in this country needs to return their countryside alliance stuff.

I don't think the Countryside Alliance have any connection to the IFA.

Reggie.

This just sums it up for me

grassroot1

I have re read the article in the shooters digest (IFA Countryside section) and I don't see where the IFA Countryside are siding with the Gardaí. Nek is it written somewhere else that I have missed?

rangler1

grassroot1 wrote: »

I have re read the article in the shooters digest (IFA Countryside section) and I don't see where the IFA Countryside are siding with the Gardaí. Nek is it written somewhere else that I have missed?

This apparently is what it's about
Heavy calibre automatic centre fire rifles have no practical application in agriculture for vermin control, target or sport.



I can't get anyone to give a proper explanation anyway

Connemara Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

This apparently is what it's about
Heavy calibre automatic centre fire rifles have no practical application in agriculture for vermin control, target or sport.



I can't get anyone to give a proper explanation anyway

I once saw six foxes in a lambing field together, I will disagree, an M60 would have been useful :cool:

Reggie.

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I once saw six foxes in a lambing field together, I will disagree, an M60 would have been useful :cool:

You want a GPMG...far better belt feed weapon