Children need to be ‘protected’ from religion

Nomis21

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/richard-dawkins-children-need-to-be-protected-from-religion-1.2116281

Why is the Church still trusted with Education...?

vicwatson

It's a nonsense

Who says they are "trusted"?

Nomis21

The Government must trust them, or they wouldn't be allowed to operate would they?

Absolam

Nomis21 wrote: »

The Government must trust them, or they wouldn't be allowed to operate would they?

Everyone trusts them, don't they? The Church has never given anyone a reason not to trust them, surely?
On the other hand maybe the Church isn't (still?) trusted with Education.

DavidRamsay99

If those three girls who ran off to join ISIS had been protected from religion perhaps they wouldn't be doomed to being passed around like meat and gangraped? If they snap out of their trance and try to escape they will probably be beheaded and chopped to pieces or burned alive.

uck51js9zml2yt

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

If those three girls who ran off to join ISIS had been protected from religion perhaps they wouldn't be doomed to being passed around like meat and gangraped? If they snap out of their trance and try to escape they will probably be beheaded and chopped to pieces or burned alive.

Can't resist
Were is your link to support your claim?

PopePalpatine

Absolam wrote: »

Everyone trusts them, don't they? The Church has never given anyone a reason not to trust them, surely?
On the other hand maybe the Church isn't (still?) trusted with Education.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

MaxWig

Nomis21 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/richard-dawkins-children-need-to-be-protected-from-religion-1.2116281

Why is the Church still trusted with Education...?

I think you missed his point.

Dawkins and Krauss want children protected from Religion, not any church or church run institutions.

They believe that exposure to religious ideas are poisonous to a child's healthy development

realdanbreen

MaxWig wrote: »

I think you missed his point.

Dawkins and Krauss want children protected from Religion, not any church or church run institutions.

They believe that exposure to religious ideas are poisonous to a child's healthy development

Religious bodies educated children in this country despite unbelieveable persecution from Dawkins and Krauss's ancestors.

MaxWig

realdanbreen wrote: »

Religious bodies educated children in this country despite unbelieveable persecution from Dawkins and Krauss's ancestors.

Not being funny, but now I've missed your point.

realdanbreen

MaxWig wrote: »

Not being funny, but now I've missed your point.

Point is that persucution of those with religious beliefs is part of the makeup of Dawkins and Krauss.

robindch

MaxWig wrote: »

Dawkins and Krauss want children protected from Religion, not any church or church run institutions. They believe that exposure to religious ideas are poisonous to a child's healthy development

A common misconception which Dawkins has attempted to correct many, many times.

Dawkins is very happy to have religious stories told to children as stories - whether they're christian stories, or stories about Thor, Zeus and the rest. He, and I think most posters here, do not want religious stories presented as if they were true.

MaxWig

realdanbreen wrote: »

Point is that persucution of those with religious beliefs is part of the makeup of Dawkins and Krauss.

Oh, agreed. Kinda.

Not sure I'd call it persecution, but they seem intent on repeating themselves alright

MaxWig

robindch wrote: »

A common misconception which Dawkins has attempted to correct many, many times.

Dawkins is very happy to have religious stories told to children as stories - whether they're christian stories, or stories about Thor, Zeus and the rest. He, and I think most posters here, do not want religious stories presented as if they were true.

Right. So 'religious ideas' was the correct way to phrase it then?

robindch

MaxWig wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

Religious bodies educated children in this country despite unbelieveable persecution from Dawkins and Krauss's ancestors.

Not being funny, but now I've missed your point..

Dawkins speaks with an English accent. Therefore, Dawkins commenting on the control of Irish schools by the Vatican is "persecution".

As bit like the Irish Water protesters protesting at 50c per day based upon consumption rather than general taxation, one can only wonder what would happen if people who refer to legitimate comment as "persecution" were actually subjected to real persecution.

robindch

MaxWig wrote: »

Right. So 'religious ideas' was the correct way to phrase it then?

Religious ideas are contained within religious stories.

MaxWig

robindch wrote: »

Religious ideas are contained within religious stories.

And Religious stories are contained within religious ideas.


Semantics?

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Dawkins speaks with an English accent. Therefore, Dawkins commenting on the control of Irish schools by the Vatican is "persecution".

As bit like the Irish Water protesters protesting at 50c per day based upon consumption rather than general taxation, one can only wonder what would happen if people who refer to legitimate comment as "persecution" were actually subjected to real persecution.

What are you on about?

Mr. Remote Control

I agree. Children DO need to be ‘protected’ from religion. Religion is a load of bullsh*t. If all children were brought up in reality, i.e. Son you are an ape. You are an animal like every other; therefor you are fragile and could die at any time. It's a rough world out there, but you can make it great for yourself. There is no heaven child, so work hard, eat well, live well and be happy. The world is there for you.

Instead of.

You're sh*t doesn't stink. If this life doesn't work out - it's OK because your going to heaven. The world isn't your oyster. Don't think this, don't think that. This is wrong, that is wrong. Judge. Judge. Judge. Hell. Demons. Heaven. Shame. Sins. You are a sinner.

I remember confessions as a child. I could never get it. You know, the only lies I ever told as a child were the ones to the priest during confessions. I remember worrying to my teachers and parents, saying but I haven't sinned, why do I have to tell this man my sins? I ended up telling him, I did this or I did that - none of it was true of course. Why the f*** is cool to insist on a young impressionable mind that they are a sinner?

Bastards.

robindch

realdanbreen wrote: »

What are you on about?

I'm explaining your nonsensical logic.

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

I'm explaining your nonsensical logic.

You're talking rubbish you mean.And why have you a problem with anyone with an English accent?
Are you racist as well as an atheist?

MaxWig

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are you racist as well as an atheist?

haha

realdanbreen

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

I agree. Children DO need to be ‘protected’ from religion. Religion is a load of bullsh*t. If all children were brought up in reality, i.e. Son you are an ape. You are an animal like every other; therefor you are fragile and could die at any time. It's a rough world out there, but you can make it great for yourself. There is no heaven child, so work hard, eat well, live well and be happy. The world is there for you.

Instead of.

You're sh*t doesn't stink. If this life doesn't work out - it's OK because your going to heaven. The world isn't your oyster. Don't think this, don't think that. This is wrong, that is wrong. Judge. Judge. Judge. Hell. Demons. Heaven. Shame. Sins. You are a sinner.

I remember confessions as a child. I could never get it. You know, the only lies I ever told as a child were the ones to the priest during confessions. I remember worrying to my teachers and parents, saying but I haven't sinned, why do I have to tell this man my sins? I ended up telling him, I did this or I did that - none of it was true of course. Why the f*** is cool to insist on a young impressionable mind that they are a sinner?

Bastards.

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

lazygal

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

It never ceases to amaze me that people don't realise it is a pure accident of birth that they are one religion and not another. It never ceases to amaze me that adults can sincerely believe they've plumped on the one 'proper' way to worship whatever god or gods they worship, out of the millions of other gods they could be pleasing. And it never ceases to amaze me that so many cultural catholics pick out the bits of the bible and rituals they like and skim over the nasty bits.

shruikan2553

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

Thankfully creationists are a minority.

galljga1

robindch wrote: »

A common misconception which Dawkins has attempted to correct many, many times.

Dawkins is very happy to have religious stories told to children as stories - whether they're christian stories, or stories about Thor, Zeus and the rest. He, and I think most posters here, do not want religious stories presented as if they were true.

Now you are knocking Thor and Zeus... Where is this going to end?

Mr. Remote Control

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

It wasn't once upon a time, it was 13.8 billion years ago. But hey, if your book tells you it was 6000 years ago then fair enough. I have a little ammonite in my hand here that's older than that. In fact it's about 150 million years old.

Mr. Remote Control

And it wasn't just a BANG! It was a BIG!!! BANG!

Pchooowoooow!!!

kylith

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

And it wasn't just a BANG! It was a BIG!!! BANG!

Pchooowoooow!!!

Then it wasn't so much a Hey Presto! as a 'after billions of years'.

realdanbreen

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

It wasn't once upon a time, it was 13.8 billion years ago. But hey, if your book tells you it was 6000 years ago then fair enough. I have a little ammonite in my hand here that's older than that. In fact it's about 150 million years old.

Where are you getting 6000 years from?
Have you ever studied Theology? Religion makes perfect sense to anyone who has. But hey, if the lazy 'it all started with a big bang way back( or so I'm told by some clever professor type guy's) is how you see life then fine, enjoy.

BoatMad

realdanbreen wrote: »

Religious bodies educated children in this country despite unbelieveable persecution from Dawkins and Krauss's ancestors.

the religious bodies maintained instruction of children so as to ensure indoctrination not education

In the 18th century of course they become part of the educational establishment, ( see maynooth etc) and become actually very established as " official " educators well before the founding of the state

( see when irish was introduced in teaching into the school system , at it was not after 1922 !!)


Certainly the catholic religion suffered bouts of persecution for they religion at times , as teachers they didn't though

BoatMad

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

it IS a little more complex then that you do realise

most people dont understand how the internal combustion engine works either, however it doesn't mean that they believe its by " magic" ( religion is magic )

galljga1

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

I agree. Children DO need to be ‘protected’ from religion. Religion is a load of bullsh*t. If all children were brought up in reality, i.e. Son you are an ape. You are an animal like every other; therefor you are fragile and could die at any time. It's a rough world out there, but you can make it great for yourself. There is no heaven child, so work hard, eat well, live well and be happy. The world is there for you.

Instead of.

You're sh*t doesn't stink. If this life doesn't work out - it's OK because your going to heaven. The world isn't your oyster. Don't think this, don't think that. This is wrong, that is wrong. Judge. Judge. Judge. Hell. Demons. Heaven. Shame. Sins. You are a sinner.

I remember confessions as a child. I could never get it. You know, the only lies I ever told as a child were the ones to the priest during confessions. I remember worrying to my teachers and parents, saying but I haven't sinned, why do I have to tell this man my sins? I ended up telling him, I did this or I did that - none of it was true of course. Why the f*** is cool to insist on a young impressionable mind that they are a sinner?

Bastards.

Children need to be taught religion at school. It is a right of passage. Those that come out the far side belong in one of two camps. Those that cop on that it is absolute horse manure and those that... well they don't really matter.

When my daughter was preparing for first holy communion I was brought before her school principal to be told that she was holding court in the school yard telling everyone that there was no such thing as god, that we were all descendents of apes, saying 'particularly you' to one guy. Never found out who that was. Me bursting out laughing was not the reaction the principal expected. I told the principal I would get her to make her communion (yeah, I know, hypocrite, but I did not want her to be the only one to be left out of a 'big day') by promising a big party, bouncy castle, presents etc and she did. Confirmation next year, not sure how that is going to pan out.

Currently, she is a very caring little girl, shows great concern for others in bother, cannot understand homophobia and that is down to her upbringing, not some rubbish in an old book.

Mr. Remote Control

realdanbreen wrote: »

Where are you getting 6000 years from?
Have you ever studied Theology? Religion makes perfect sense to anyone who has. But hey, if the lazy 'it all started with a big bang way back( or so I'm told by some clever professor type guy's) is how you see life then fine, enjoy.

I don't need to study theology, which I assume you have done. Does the bible not say the earth is 6000 years old? I was pretty sure it did. If it doesn't then my bad. How old is the earth then?

I'm an ape. My sh*t stinks. I share 50% of my DNA with a banana. My closest non-human cousin is the bonobo. That isn't my opinion. That's a fact.

And it's not 'it all started with a big bang way back', it's 'It all started with a big bang 13,800,000,000 years ago'.

realdanbreen

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

I'm an ape. My sh*t stinks. I share 50% of my DNA with a banana..

Whoa!, steady on. I believe you.

BoatMad

galljga1 wrote: »

Children need to be taught religion at school. It is a right of passage. Those that come out the far side belong in one of two camps. Those that cop on that it is absolute horse manure and those that... well they don't really matter.

When my daughter was preparing for first holy communion I was brought before her school principal to be told that she was holding court in the school yard telling everyone that there was no such thing as god, that we were all descendents of apes, saying 'particularly you' to one guy. Never found out who that was. Me bursting out laughing was not the reaction the principal expected. I told the principal I would get her to make her communion (yeah, I know, hypocrite, but I did not want her to be the only one to be left out of a 'big day') by promising a big party, bouncy castle, presents etc and she did. Confirmation next year, not sure how that is going to pan out.

Currently, she is a very caring little girl, shows great concern for others in bother, cannot understand homophobia and that is down to her upbringing, not some rubbish in an old book.

I dont have a problem with them being taught or exposed to religion, what children need to be protected from is baptism and conferring and the like when they are too young to understand anything.

galljga1

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont have a problem with them being taught or exposed to religion, what children need to be protected from is baptism and conferring and the like when they are too young to understand anything.

Can't argue with you. As long as it is done for the right reasons: party, loads of money etc.

realdanbreen

galljga1 wrote: »

Children need to be taught religion at school. It is a right of passage. Those that come out the far side belong in one of two camps. Those that cop on that it is absolute horse manure and those that... well they don't really matter.

When my daughter was preparing for first holy communion I was brought before her school principal to be told that she was holding court in the school yard telling everyone that there was no such thing as god, that we were all descendents of apes, saying 'particularly you' to one guy. Never found out who that was. Me bursting out laughing was not the reaction the principal expected. I told the principal I would get her to make her communion (yeah, I know, hypocrite, but I did not want her to be the only one to be left out of a 'big day') by promising a big party, bouncy castle, presents etc and she did. Confirmation next year, not sure how that is going to pan out.

Currently, she is a very caring little girl, shows great concern for others in bother, cannot understand homophobia and that is down to her upbringing, not some rubbish in an old book.

I can't understand why so many atheist parents make such a big deal about rearing children, or why they seem to go out of their way to find 'issues' or confrontations that affect their kids at school.Most kids go through school totally chilled out and religion or religious events don't bother them one way or the other.

shruikan2553

realdanbreen wrote: »

I can't understand why so many atheist parents make such a big deal about rearing children, or why they seem to go out of their way to find 'issues' or confrontations that affect their kids at school.Most kids go through school totally chilled out and religion or religious events don't bother them one way or the other.

Its like religious people going to an atheist forum and then complaining when its full of atheists.

You would be amazed how often it happens.

silverharp

realdanbreen wrote: »

I can't understand why so many atheist parents make such a big deal about rearing children, or why they seem to go out of their way to find 'issues' or confrontations that affect their kids at school.Most kids go through school totally chilled out and religion or religious events don't bother them one way or the other.

Why would you want your kids to knuckle under just to fit in? Its a good life lesson to see that adults can be idiots as well and not to take everything at face value.

galljga1

realdanbreen wrote: »

I can't understand why so many atheist parents make such a big deal about rearing children, or why they seem to go out of their way to find 'issues' or confrontations that affect their kids at school.Most kids go through school totally chilled out and religion or religious events don't bother them one way or the other.

Not sure how you get that out of my post.

Rearing children is a big deal.

Because i do not subscribe to a particular belief system, I am an atheist? I also do not have much time for the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, the whole Xenu thing being ever so slightly far fetched.

I actually go out of my way to ensure 'issues' do not affect my kids, hence my daughter made her communion even though I personally think it is nonsensical. I do not go to church but I never bad mouth it or praise it in front of my kids. They make up their own minds.

On the last point, religion does affect my daughter as she watches the news, listens to more than just music on the radio, reads avidly, factual books, newspapers and questions why so many atrocities are carried out in the name of various religions. I can only point out to her that most people on this beautiful little planet of ours are good and that a very small minority abuse their positions to carry out evil acts and that they would most likely be doing similar regardless of their religion.

realdanbreen

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Its like religious people going to an atheist forum and then complaining when its full of atheists.

You would be amazed how often it happens.

You're missing the point. Why do ye get so worked up and why do ye get the kids involved and concerned about something that other kids could'nt give two hoots about?

shruikan2553

realdanbreen wrote: »

You're missing the point. Why do ye get so worked up and why do ye get the kids involved and concerned about something that other kids could'nt give two hoots about?

I have no idea, some people for whatever reason what their children to have a religious education but cant be assed to do it themselves. The kids do care a little, they get lots of money for doing communions and confirmations.

Brian Shanahan

realdanbreen wrote: »

Religious bodies educated children in this country despite unbelieveable persecution from Dawkins and Krauss's ancestors.

Post reported for trolling.

Brian Shanahan

realdanbreen wrote: »

Point is that persucution of those with religious beliefs is part of the makeup of Dawkins and Krauss.

What's with the libel?

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

It wasn't once upon a time, it was 13.8 billion years ago. But hey, if your book tells you it was 6000 years ago then fair enough. I have a little ammonite in my hand here that's older than that. In fact it's about 150 million years old.

There are cities mentioned in the bible which are verifiably older than the date the same book gives for the creation of the universe. But then again, that's the level religion works as, so stupid it proves itself wrong.

Mark Hamill

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

Of course most sensible adults believe there was a BANG and then life began, many have experienced the BANG multiple times themsleves.

Where else do babies come from?

orubiru

realdanbreen wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how there are otherwise sensible adults out there who believe that once upon a time there was a BANG and Hey Presto! life began.

Not that simple but I am sure you already knew that.

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-the-universe.html

This guy, Stephen Hawking, did a lecture on it.

Now, I am sure that you are much smarter than this Hawking guy but I am just leaving it here for you to read anyways. Though it's probably like reading an high school kids failed Astronomy essay to your massive intellect.

Or what about these clowns at CERN (Clowns, Eejits and Real Nerds) who seem to think the same thing, that there was a Big Bang?

http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/early-universe

You should send them your CV, just put "an actual sensible adult" on there. Seems they would give you a job because these CERN folks have been getting it wrong since 1954!

Mr. Remote Control

realdanbreen wrote: »

Whoa!, steady on. I believe you.

I know you believe me, that's because it's true. Sometimes it doesn't stink though; which is great - but what about the two questions that were also in that post?

Does the bible not say the earth is 6000 years old?

How old is the earth then?

Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but if you're going to question where I got my 6000 years from, then at least correct me - I will listen. You've studied theology, educate me.

galljga1

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

It wasn't once upon a time, it was 13.8 billion years ago. But hey, if your book tells you it was 6000 years ago then fair enough. I have a little ammonite in my hand here that's older than that. In fact it's about 150 million years old.

Now that just cant be true as this earth is in fact 6000 years old, I have heard that too, think I got that from some American creationist crap on youtube so it must be true. If you said you had a little Mennonite in your hand, that might be believable as they are around since the 16th century.

robindch

Mr. Remote Control wrote: »

You've studied theology, educate me.

I don't quite see how the second part of that sentence follows from the first.

Hotblack Desiato

Although you'd think a 'student' of theology would have heard of Archbishop Ussher.

Ussher deduced that the first day of creation began at nightfall on Saturday, October 22, 4004 BC, in the proleptic Julian calendar, near the autumnal equinox. He elsewhere dates the time to 6 pm.

Just in time for tea.