Maternity Leave - equal rights

Bendihorse · 24-02-2015 11:08am #1

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me. I definitely am an advocate for breast feeding, but I think that there should be say 10 months granted and parents should be allowed to decide between them how it is divided out based on what suits their needs.

Floor open for discussion...

DoYouEvenLift · 24-02-2015 11:10am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me. I definitely am an advocate for breast feeding, but my feeling is that there should be say 10 months granted and parents should be allowed to decide between them how it is divided out based on what suits their needs.

The floor is open for discussion...

That's funny seeing as they already do.

joxer1988 · 24-02-2015 11:11am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me. I definitely am an advocate for breast feeding, but my feeling is that there should be say 10 months granted and parents should be allowed to decide between them how it is divided out based on what suits their needs.

The floor is open for discussion...

Controlling for maternity leave, associated career breaks and everything else, women still get paid less than men.

Karl Stein · 24-02-2015 11:13am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Floor open for discussion...

Breast milk spilled on floor.

Floor closed for 'elf and safety.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:14am

Statutory maternity leave is that - statutory it should always be included in calculating a woman's service. Children are a necessity of society and we need to promote this. Post natal care is divided equally afaik

Elly_Welly · 24-02-2015 11:14am

I'm also in favour of men and women sharing the 9 months of pregnancy equally, in the true spirit of gender equality.

keithclancy · 24-02-2015 11:14am

In Germany they call it 'Parental Leave'

Excluding the actual time for recovery from birth, the Man or Woman can take parental leave for Children.

This would be better for women as they would not be at a disadvantage due to taking long breaks in their work history.

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:15am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Floor open for discussion...

Thanks for the warning, would hate to have fallen through it.

keithclancy wrote: »

In Germany they call it 'Parental Leave'

Excluding the actual time for recovery from birth, the Man or Woman can take parental leave for Children.

This would be better for women as they would not be at a disadvantage due to taking long breaks in their work history.

There is parental leave here. Upto the equivalent of 16 weeks before the child is 8. The issue is a lack of "Paternity" leave that functions somewhat similarly to Maternity Leave.

Just a little Samba · 24-02-2015 11:15am

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

That's funny seeing as they already do.

They definitely don't receive equal pay.
Women on average get paid 14.4% less then men for the doing the same job in Ireland.

Bendihorse · 24-02-2015 11:16am

joxer1988 wrote: »

Controlling for maternity leave, associated career breaks and everything else, women still get paid less than men.

It would take a long period of correction but I think this would be the start. Whether its talked about or not, a 28-35 year old woman applies for a job, it is considered that she may seem maternity leave at some stage in the near future. Unless she is streets ahead of the other candidates, she may get passed over for the job. If a male candidate stood the same chance of taking 5 months off as a woman, then that levels the playing field. This would filter through to all levels eventually.

24-02-2015 11:16am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me. I definitely am an advocate for breast feeding, but I think that there should be say 10 months granted and parents should be allowed to decide between them how it is divided out based on what suits their needs.

Floor open for discussion...

It is already possible for a man to take the "maternity" leave and the woman to go back to work.

TwoShedsJackson · 24-02-2015 11:17am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me.

These two things seem unconnected to me.

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:19am

Elyse Billions Barometer wrote: »

It is already possible for a man to take the "maternity" leave and the woman to go back to work.

Since when? The only things I saw mentioning a father getting this sort of leave was due to the death of the mother.

pwurple · 24-02-2015 11:21am

Elyse Billions Barometer wrote: »

It is already possible for a man to take the "maternity" leave.

Only if she's dead.

jimgoose · 24-02-2015 11:22am

Elyse Billions Barometer wrote: »

It is already possible for a man to take the "maternity" leave and the woman to go back to work.

Sort of. Under the Parental Leave Act of 1998 fathers are entitled to 18 weeks unpaid leave per-child under 8 years of age.

spurious · 24-02-2015 11:22am

Of course there should be paid paternity leave, feminists (oh God no!) have been looking for it for years.

I want to know what Lolek Ltd., sometimes calling themselves the Iona Institute have to say about it, since they have such concern for children.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:23am

They are entitled to parental leave

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:24am

efb wrote: »

They are entitled to parental leave

Both parents are. It's not the same as maternity leave in the slightest.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:29am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Both parents are. It's not the same as maternity leave in the slightest.

Men don't get pregnant

whatdoicare · 24-02-2015 11:34am

Isn't there new research showing that women need nearly a full year to recover fully from childbirth and that the six week ideal before is totally unrealistic?

I'm all for parental leave but not if it means the mother has to return to work earlier or is under pressure to return to work before she has properly recovered mentally and physically.

I'd be more in favour of the dad being allowed his own leave to spend with the mother not instead of.

I had a csection and I wasn't fully recovered by the six months, I found most of the issues I had both mentally and physically presented themselves around the 4 month mark, before that I thought I was superwoman, I was 100% back to normal as far as I was concerned. Racing around, baba under my arm. Got a huge reality check soon after.

I'm only feeling normal now, more than a year on. I know alot of new mams think they are flying it around the six week mark and probably would agree to going back to work thinking they were back to normal but would regret it soon after that. You have to be so careful and new mums have no idea what to expect!

I think parental leave needs to be thought out very carefully so as to benefit everyone.

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:35am

efb wrote: »

Men don't get pregnant

Women do be rather exhausted for some time after giving birth, so saddling'em with childcare without a chance to recover isn't ideal. The reason for the need of paternity leave is for the father to be available to share support for the child and allow the mother to recover.

For the first 2 months after our son was born, I was coming home from work and taking care of him while herself was trying to catch up on sleep. It ain't good for the head to be constantly on the go like that for either of us.

awec · 24-02-2015 11:35am

efb wrote: »

Men don't get pregnant

I presume he means that if the woman decides she wants to go back to work 6 weeks after giving birth or whatever that the man should be able to take the paternity leave with the same pay and conditions as the mother traditionally gets.

Lovely Bloke · 24-02-2015 11:35am

efb wrote: »

Men don't get pregnant

So?

Maternity/Paternity Leave is a different concept to Parental Leave. Which I'm sure you already know, but are choosing to pretend not to.

There should absolutely be a different "recovery" leave for the woman after giving birth, but currently there is absolutely no statutory paid Paternity Leave.

It is absolutely essential for a child's emotional development that they get to bond with the father as well as the mother. I suspect a lot of people never got that initial bonding with a father-figure.

kylith · 24-02-2015 11:36am

Bendihorse wrote: »

Women won't receive equal pay or conditions in the work place until fathers are granted equal entitlements to maternity leave. This seems like a no brainer to me. I definitely am an advocate for breast feeding, but I think that there should be say 10 months granted and parents should be allowed to decide between them how it is divided out based on what suits their needs.

Floor open for discussion...

I'm all for implementing the maternity/paternity leave suggestion you suggest.

However your remark about how women won't get equal pay or conditions because of maternity leave makes it sound like you think maternity leave is like a holiday rather than one of the most stressful and hectic times in a person's life.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:37am

awec wrote: »

I presume he means that if the woman decides she wants to go back to work 6 weeks after giving birth or whatever that the man should be able to take the paternity leave with the same pay and conditions as the mother traditionally gets.

Yes
Property said it's not maternity leave- but biologically it can't be!

anncoates · 24-02-2015 11:37am

"Dravokivich wrote: »

There is parental leave here. Upto the equivalent of 16 weeks before the child is 8. The issue is a lack of "Paternity" leave that functions somewhat similarly to Maternity Leave.

The parental leave here is a nice thought but like most people, I can't see myself being able to take off 4 months without pay anytime soon.

I do know some people that were able to use it to go to a four day week, that said, but you still pay for it in the end.

I'd fully agree with paid paternity leave being split equally, or not if they elect not to, obviously, between both parents though.

Lovely Bloke · 24-02-2015 11:39am

yep, it's unpaid. I doubt many couples with a new baby can really afford to go taking 18 weeks off, with no pay.

It's stupid.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:40am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So?

Maternity/Paternity Leave is a different concept to Parental Leave. Which I'm sure you already know, but are choosing to pretend not to.

There should absolutely be a different "recovery" leave for the woman after giving birth, but currently there is absolutely no statutory paid Paternity Leave.

It is absolutely essential for a child's emotional development that they get to bond with the father as well as the mother. I suspect a lot of people never got that initial bonding with a father-figure.

I agree with statutory parental leave for the parent(s) of the child after the birth 100%

awec · 24-02-2015 11:40am

efb wrote: »

Yes
Property said it's not maternity leave- but biologically it can't be!

Not talking about biology here though, the discussion is about the conditions.

I think there needs to be more flexibility for each individual mother and father to decide what works best. Maybe the mother has a career and the father doesn't. Maybe the mother earns more money and it would make more sense for her to be the main earner.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:41am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So?

Maternity/Paternity Leave is a different concept to Parental Leave. Which I'm sure you already know, but are choosing to pretend not to.

There should absolutely be a different "recovery" leave for the woman after giving birth, but currently there is absolutely no statutory paid Paternity Leave.

It is absolutely essential for a child's emotional development that they get to bond with the father as well as the mother. I suspect a lot of people never got that initial bonding with a father-figure.

Saying it's not maternity leave - biologically it can't be. Parental leave I support

Lovely Bloke · 24-02-2015 11:42am

efb wrote: »

I agree with statutory parental leave for the parent(s) of the child after the birth 100%

So what the hell are you doing making nonsensical statements like "Men don't get pregnant" as if it has any bearing on that belief.

Weird.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:43am

Women have maternity leave to give birth and get body to readjust post pregnancy. This is not applicable to men. Statutory parental leave I support and it's in place.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:43am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Both parents are. It's not the same as maternity leave in the slightest.

This is why

Bendihorse · 24-02-2015 11:43am

kylith wrote: »

I'm all for implementing the maternity/paternity leave suggestion you suggest.

However your remark about how women won't get equal pay or conditions because of maternity leave makes it sound like you think maternity leave is like a holiday rather than one of the most stressful and hectic times in a person's life.

Not at all, because it's anticipated that the woman may be away from her position for a period of time due to the birth of a child, where in a mans case, it would not.

I argue this from two points, equality for women in workplace, but also equality for a man to be allowed the opportunity to bond with his child and the child with him. The latter is probably a more pertinent issue from child welfare POV.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:44am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

So?

Maternity/Paternity Leave is a different concept to Parental Leave. Which I'm sure you already know, but are choosing to pretend not to.

There should absolutely be a different "recovery" leave for the woman after giving birth, but currently there is absolutely no statutory paid Paternity Leave.

It is absolutely essential for a child's emotional development that they get to bond with the father as well as the mother. I suspect a lot of people never got that initial bonding with a father-figure.

You know what I'm thinking?

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:45am

efb wrote: »

Yes
Property said it's not maternity leave- but biologically it can't be!

I said it's "not the same as," my earlier references were that something "similar" is needed for fathers to avail of.

Parental Leave isn't similar in the slightest.

efb wrote: »

Women have maternity leave to give birth and get body to readjust post pregnancy. This is not applicable to men. Statutory parental leave I support and it's in place.

What are you on? How can the mother recover if the father isn't there to assist with the child?

efb · 24-02-2015 11:46am

Dravokivich wrote: »

I said it's "not the same as," my earlier references were that something "similar" is needed for fathers to avail of.

Parental Leave isn't similar in the slightest.

What are you on? How can the mother recover if the father isn't there to assist with the child?

He can take parental leave.

awec · 24-02-2015 11:47am

efb wrote: »

Women have maternity leave to give birth and get body to readjust post pregnancy. This is not applicable to men. Statutory parental leave I support and it's in place.

But is pretty much unworkable for what I would imagine is the overwhelming majority of parents.

All women are not the same, I am sure there are plenty that would love to return to work quicker than others and would do so if their husband could "inherit" their maternity benefits.

awec · 24-02-2015 11:47am

efb wrote: »

He can take parental leave.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse now.

Dravokivich · 24-02-2015 11:47am

efb wrote: »

He can take parental leave.

Eh... right so Ted...

Elly_Welly · 24-02-2015 11:48am

My husband gets 10 days paternal leave from work.

Which means for 10 days, I've 2 babies to feed!

When men grow (functioning!) breasts, call me.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:48am

awec wrote: »

I think you're being deliberately obtuse now.

What how? In what way? We have statutory leave for parents

efb · 24-02-2015 11:49am

awec wrote: »

But is pretty much unworkable for what I would imagine is the overwhelming majority of parents.

All women are not the same, I am sure there are plenty that would love to return to work quicker than others and would do so if their husband could "inherit" their maternity benefits.

Unworkable how?

awec · 24-02-2015 11:49am

Elly_Welly wrote: »

My husband gets 10 days paternal leave from work.

Which means for 10 days, I've 2 babies to feed!

When men grow (functioning!) breasts, call me.

You do know that you are not all women?

awec · 24-02-2015 11:49am

efb wrote: »

Unworkable how?

It's unpaid! Are you actually being serious?

Supercell · 24-02-2015 11:49am

Hopefully the Family Leave Bill will get passed sometime this year (preferably before September when number 3 is due!) which will mean that men get two weeks paid paternity leave.
How would you share the leave if you work for different companies, seems like an administrative nightmare.
Last one I took one month and was going mental in the house. This time my wife has declared that parental leave or not, three weeks is what i'm to take for her sake as much as mine

Lovely Bloke · 24-02-2015 11:51am

awec wrote: »

I think you're being deliberately obtuse now.

that's SOOO unlike efb.

Parental Leave is unpaid.

For someone who claims to be all about equal rights, efb is taking a really weird stance on this thread.

Lovely Bloke · 24-02-2015 11:51am

awec wrote: »

It's unpaid! Are you actually being serious?

Stopped getting baited ffs, it's obvious what's going on here - has been for months with this guy.

efb · 24-02-2015 11:52am

awec wrote: »

It's unpaid! Are you actually being serious?

So the argument is for paid parental leave. Only the first 26 weeks are paid of maternity leave

I would support paid parental leave

anncoates · 24-02-2015 11:54am

efb wrote: »

What how? In what way? We have statutory leave for parents

It's essentially permission to take 16 weeks off work unpaid. In that sense, it's hardly egalitarian, being based on your ability to suck down 4 months without pay.

Not knocking it, but it's not a perfect substitute for paid paternal leave.

Maternity leave isn't just for postpartum recovery, unless you think women are laid up for 6 months after giving birth. It's for bonding with the child and looking after it until it reaches a certain age.

awec · 24-02-2015 11:54am

efb wrote: »

So the argument is for paid parental leave. Only the first 26 weeks are paid of maternity leave

I would support paid parental leave

That's 26 weeks more than are paid with parental leave!

Quite a substantial difference, wouldn't you think?

How many parents do you know that can afford to have one parent give up their entire salary for a significant period of time? That's just crazy.

Maternity Leave - equal rights

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