Paul Murphy on The Late Late last night

conorh91

Baby Jane wrote: »

How would Denis O'Brien have a stake in the ESB?

He doesn't. A subsidiary of the company he controls was contracted to construct and maintain ESB power stations and install power cables, just like they were contracted to install water meters, or UPC infrastructure, or Luas infrastructure, and whatever else they've installed.

The involvement of O'Brien's company with water meters is no more or less relevant than his involvement with any of the companies mentioned above.

It's a convenient criticism deployed by a protest-group that is rapidly losing credibility.

Laois_Man

conorh91 wrote: »

He doesn't. A subsidiary of the company he controls was contracted to construct and maintain ESB power stations and install power cables, just like they were contracted to install water meters, or UPC infrastructure, or Luas infrastructure, and whatever else they've installed.

The involvement of O'Brien's company with water meters is no more or less relevant than his involvement with any of the companies mentioned above.

It's a convenient criticism deployed by a protest-group that is rapidly losing credibility.

Bullcrap

It has more to do with the fact O'Brien bought GMC Sierra's parent company SiteServ just before it was awarded a contract to install domestic water meters while then minister Pat Rabbitte was denying any decision had been made to award them any contract, in fact he was saying the tendering process had not even commenced....while every granny and her dog knew O'Brien had been given a wink and a nod to buy that company, even though Bord na Mona had been the front runner for the contract and Siemens had offered to do the work for €350 Million cheaper

When O'Brien bought the company, it was on it's knees, owing €150 million to IRBC, O'Brien bought it for €45 million, which wasn't even the highest bid for it (Altrad had attempted to bid €60 million but was told it wasn't for sale, Anchorage Capital had bid €52 million) , shareholders were paid €5 million and the Government controlled IRBC wrote off the other €110 million.

And then you consider his previous payment to other politicians going back to the 90's.

These are the issues with O'Brien....or more to the point, the crooks in Government

It absolutely stinks to high heavens

Tony EH

...and you'll have some people tell you that that's perfectly alright!

:pac:

Wompa1

Laois_Man wrote: »

Bullcrap

It has more to do with the fact O'Brien bought GMC Sierra's parent company SiteServ just before it was awarded a contract to install domestic water meters while then minister Pat Rabbitte was denying any decision had been made to award them any contract, in fact he was saying the tendering process had not even commenced....while every granny and her dog knew O'Brien had been given a wink and a nod to buy that company, even though Bord na Mona had been the front runner for the contract and Siemens had offered to do the work for €350 Million cheaper

When O'Brien bought the company, it was on it's knees, owing €150 million to IRBC, O'Brien bought it for €45 million, which wasn't even the highest bid for it (Altrad had attempted to bid €60 million but was told it wasn't for sale, Anchorage Capital had bid €52 million) , shareholders were paid €5 million and the Government controlled IRBC wrote off the other €110 million.

And then you consider his previous payment to other politicians going back to the 90's.

These are the issues with O'Brien....or more to the point, the crooks in Government

It absolutely stinks to high heavens

That's how I interpretted too...It would be great if we could remove money from politics somehow

Savage93

Laois_Man wrote: »

Bullcrap

It has more to do with the fact O'Brien bought GMC Sierra's parent company SiteServ just before it was awarded a contract to install domestic water meters while then minister Pat Rabbitte was denying any decision had been made to award them any contract, in fact he was saying the tendering process had not even commenced....while every granny and her dog knew O'Brien had been given a wink and a nod to buy that company, even though Bord na Mona had been the front runner for the contract and Siemens had offered to do the work for €350 Million cheaper

When O'Brien bought the company, it was on it's knees, owing €150 million to IRBC, O'Brien bought it for €45 million, which wasn't even the highest bid for it (Altrad had attempted to bid €60 million but was told it wasn't for sale, Anchorage Capital had bid €52 million) , shareholders were paid €5 million and the Government controlled IRBC wrote off the other €110 million.

And then you consider his previous payment to other politicians going back to the 90's.

These are the issues with O'Brien....or more to the point, the crooks in Government

It absolutely stinks to high heavens

Ihope for your sake DOB's solrs are not on boards, bordering on libellous .

Banjo String

Savage93 wrote: »

Ihope for your sake DOB's solrs are not on boards, bordering on libellous .

If they are, and happen to be reading this....

Denis sucks farts out of dead seagulls!

Steodonn

Savage93 wrote: »

Ihope for your sake DOB's solrs are not on boards, bordering on libellous .

Honestly held opinion based on the available evidence not even near the border

Laois_Man

Steodonn wrote: »

Honestly held opinion based on the available evidence not even near the border

Exactly, I haven't stated a single thing that is not absolute fact.

He bought SiteServ at that time - fact

It owed €150 Million and about €110 Million was written off - published fact

Altrad and Anchorage Capital were willing to pay more - fact

Board Na Mona were the front runners for the water meter contract before that - fact

Simiens offered to do it €350 Million cheaper - fact

He made payments to politicians in the 1990's - fact

So if Mr. O'Brien is gonna sue anyone, he should maybe start with those print, electronic and broadcasting media who published these facts. And of course Mr Justice Michael Moriarty who ruled that O'Brien had made payments to Michael Lowry amounting to hundreds of thousands of Euro.

So I think I should be a long way down his list of litigation targets!

Muahahaha

conorh91 wrote: »

A fool can throw a penny into a lake which twenty wise men cannot retrieve.

In other words, I can't prove a negative. I can't disprove a series of wild claims by a non-credible website which is best-known for populist click-bait.

You didn't bother to answer my question.

Would you rather see that Haiti was not attracting private investment?

You characterise investors as circling vultures. What would you prefer? An economic pariah?

So you attack Broadsheet as populist, attacking the source when you can't debate its content is a common diversionary tactic.

I didn't ask you to prove a negative- you asked on thread what have people got against DOB and why they don't respect him. I pointed you to his history with the Esat corruption which has cost this state hundreds of millions. The link goes on to outline in great detail DOBs dealing around INM, GMC Sierra, Anglo debt write downs, jaysis the list of unanswered questions just goes on and on. Any sane person with a bit of logic and knowledge of DOBs previous history of dealing with the state would prefer he is not dealing with the State any longer- but it is actually the case now that he has more public contracts with FG in power than he has ever had before. That's the part people have a problem with but you choose to ignore all those points and go harping on about schools in Haiti.

Which for the record I'm for, of course I want schools to be built. But even in charity DOB can't manage to do that with humility. He has to have buildings named after him and when he engages in charity he has to fly Chalie Brid in on his private jet so he can be filmed by RTE doing so. I'd far more respect someone like Chuck Feeney who gave away more than $1 billion of his money to the Irish education sector and always insisted his donations were anonymous and refused any media interviews about his charity. But Denis is new money so when he gives it away he has to make sure it is well publicied. Charity is no longer a selfless act when you seek publicity from it and thats exactly what he does and has been seen doing. it is precisely the reason why you're harping on about it here- because DOB media made sure you knew about it. You've been sucked in and can't even see it.

Tell me Conor91- of the business operaidi of DOB and Michael O'Leary who would you respect more what for they have achieved? The man who is close to government or the one who had to battle it at every turn to squash government sponsored monoplies?

conorh91

Laois_Man wrote: »

Bullcrap
every granny and her dog knew O'Brien had been given a wink and a nod to buy that company

see, this is the core point where your story falls down.

How do we know that?

If you have proof -- no -- any evidence whatever, go and tell someone.

Failing that, you're advancing a conspiracy theory.

Muahahaha wrote: »

you asked on thread what have people got against DOB

You're off to a pretty bad start if you can't even get that correct.

I accept that people have a problem with Denis O'Brien for all sorts of petty reasons. I certainly did not ask to have those opinions rehashed in my direction.

I said I have a problem with the characterisation of O'Brien, by certain people, to the effect that he would 'sell his Granny down the river'.

You have chosen to respond to that point with broadsheet.ie clickbait which borders on defamation, and by answering a question that was never asked.

Despite all of this, you have not answered my other question, which is whether you would prefer to see Haiti treated as an international pariah by O'Brien and his private-sector colleagues.

You have however, responded to the effect that O'Brien isn't humble enough for your liking.

I suppose that's the problem for a lot of people.

He isn't humble enough.

True Irishmen are docile, shy and lowly, is that right?

That's what it all comes down to. By your own admission, you think he's too proud of himself.

foggy_lad

His company may be building 100 schools in Haiti but they will get multiples of the value of those schools back in contracts and tax breaks and concessions in return or no schools would ever be built!

Spend several millions to get several billions back is not a bad investment, don't be fooled into thinking that these people care one bit for the education of children in Haiti or any other place they plunder!

Muahahaha

conorh91 wrote: »

You have chosen to respond to that point with broadsheet.ie clickbait which borders on defamation, and by answering a question that was never asked.

The Broadsheet article is merely a compendium of links of events that have been reported in all sections of the media. If it is defamatory then DOB has a lot of news organistions to sue, including his own. But seeing as he has already written legal letters to over 70 journalists in this country I suppose his lawyers are well used to suing as it is.

Despite all of this, you have not answered my other question, which is whether you would prefer to see Haiti treated as an international pariah by O'Brien and his private-sector colleagues.

Its a daft question- I don't want to see ANY country treated as a pariah. But I note you never answered my question of which businessman would you respect more DOB or MOL?

You have however, responded to the effect that O'Brien isn't humble enough for your liking.

I suppose that's the problem for a lot of people.

He isn't humble enough.

True Irishmen are docile, shy and lowly, is that right?

That's what it all comes down to. By your own admission, you think he's too proud of himself.

Only you're saying that. Tell me Conor91- when you donate to charity do you ring around all your friends and family to tell them you've donated to charity? Or are you humble about it and keep it to yourself?

conorh91

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Broadsheet article is merely a compendium of links of events that have been reported in all sections of the media. If it is defamatory then DOB has a lot of news organistions to sue, including his own.

Then you misunderstand the law of defamation.

I'm not an authority for whether it is defamatory or not. But compiling articles which, taken individually, disclose no cause of action may, when taken together, construct an imputation that is defamatory.

Its a daft question- I don't want to see ANY country treated as a pariah

So where does this leave your 'circling hawks' narrative?

Do you want people investing in poverty-stricken Haiti, or not?

But I note you never answered my question of which businessman would you respect more DOB or MOL?

Both are fantastic Irishmen, but I have greater respect for Denis O'Brien, because of the magnitude of his philanthropy as one of the most prolific school-builders in the Carribbean, notwithstanding his huge charitable contributions in Ireland.

when you donate to charity do you ring around all your friends and family to tell them you've donated to charity? Or are you humble about it and keep it to yourself?

I often tell other people, in the hope that they will do the same. But as this applies to Denis O'Brien, it's called catalytic philanthropy.

But I suppose you'd prefer him to be shy and retiring and dressed in sack-cloth, because that's how a desperate, vocal minority of Irish people prefer other Irish people to behave.

conorh91

foggy_lad wrote: »

they will get multiples of the value of those schools back in contracts and tax breaks and concessions in return

any evidence for that?

Zebra3

Yurt! wrote: »

DOB is indeed a ruthless businessman, would turn a buck in a famine and would likely sell his gran down the river.

But elements of the AAA would have you believe he's the black hand behind everything from dole cuts to the icecaps melting with a lunar based super laser. If DOB wasn't Dr.Evil they'd construct one out of someone else. It's silly stuff.

Have you any idea how DOB made his money in the first place?

Have you never heard of Esat and Lowry? Or are businesses "practises" like that ok?

dickiehead

Hes very retarded. the reason we are paying water charges is because water is becoming a scarce resource

Wompa1

dickiehead wrote: »

Hes very retarded. the reason we are paying water charges is because water is becoming a scarce resource

You mean globally? or in Ireland??

If you mean globally, how does the impact Ireland? Are we selling off our water?

Geuze

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm out of the country. Maybe I've been misinformed. How does he not have a stake? I had thought he had a major stake in the private company which is installing the meters?

Yes, true, he is involved with a building firm that is a contractor to IW.

But you stated he has a stake in IW.

IW is owned 100% by the State.

Geuze

Laois_Man wrote: »

Bullcrap

It has more to do with the fact O'Brien bought GMC Sierra's parent company SiteServ just before it was awarded a contract to install domestic water meters while then minister Pat Rabbitte was denying any decision had been made to award them any contract, in fact he was saying the tendering process had not even commenced....while every granny and her dog knew O'Brien had been given a wink and a nod to buy that company, even though Bord na Mona had been the front runner for the contract and Siemens had offered to do the work for €350 Million cheaper

When O'Brien bought the company, it was on it's knees, owing €150 million to IRBC, O'Brien bought it for €45 million, which wasn't even the highest bid for it (Altrad had attempted to bid €60 million but was told it wasn't for sale, Anchorage Capital had bid €52 million) , shareholders were paid €5 million and the Government controlled IRBC wrote off the other €110 million.

And then you consider his previous payment to other politicians going back to the 90's.

These are the issues with O'Brien....or more to the point, the crooks in Government

It absolutely stinks to high heavens

The writeoff of SiteServ debt does seem odd, that's true.

Baggy Trousers

Savage93 wrote: »

Ihope for your sake DOB's solrs are not on boards, bordering on libellous .

Is that your only response to the information presented?

conorh91

conorh91 wrote: »

Haiti is being rebuilt after the entire political, economic and physical infrastructure was turned upside down. To this end, Haiti is getting major investment from official agencies like NGOs and the UN. And when they invest and the economy recovers... guess what... new businesses arrive to fill a gap in the market, whether in construction, or electricity, or road-building, or telecommunications.

Denis O'Brien is involved in the latter, just like plenty of other businessmen. What exactly is your problem with this? Would you rather the business community treated Haiti like a pariah? That the Haitian economy were left to rot?

I don't know what you want, I don't know what your friend's firm has to do with Denis O'Brien's school-building charity, nor with his telecommunications business, and I don't understand your reference to Ryan Turbridy. The whole thing is petty and incoherent.

Well i worked for DOB in the past, from what i know he doesn't get involved in something unless there is a business opportunity in it for him. Its not a bad thing. But i dont believe for one minute he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

Wompa1

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, true, he is involved with a building firm that is a contractor to IW.

But you stated he has a stake in IW.

IW is owned 100% by the State.

That is a stake, he has a stake in IW being operational. If it's not he loses out on his investment....???

For something to be at stake...he's got something at stake in this.

weldoninhio

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, true, he is involved with a building firm that is a contractor to IW.

But you stated he has a stake in IW.

IW is owned 100% by the State.

As a contractor to IW, he is a stakeholder.

Zebra3

dickiehead wrote: »

Hes very retarded. the reason we are paying water charges is because water is becoming a scarce resource

It's a bank bailout tax.

dickiehead

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's a bank bailout tax.

Its not a bank bailout tax ! the household charge was a bailout tax.
As i said before Water(especially drinking water) is becoming a scarce resource believe it or not. Mark my words, the next world war will be over water!!!

Wompa1

dickiehead wrote: »

Its not a bank bailout tax ! the household charge was a bailout tax.
As i said before Water(especially drinking water) is becoming a scarce resource believe it or not. Mark my words, the next world war will be over water!!!

Globally?????? Or in Ireland?

We have plenty of water, I don't think we'll be running out any time soon. Particularly based on our population.

dickiehead

Wompa1 wrote: »

Globally?????? Or in Ireland?

We have plenty of water, I don't think we'll be running out any time soon. Particularly based on our population.

As an environmental engineer I can in fact confirm that we, the world are running out of Drinking water particularly in Ireland as almost 50% of our water is lost through our piping system

Wompa1

dickiehead wrote: »

As an environmental engineer I can in fact confirm that we, the world are running out of Drinking water particularly in Ireland as almost 50% of our water is lost through our piping system

How about Ireland?

Dyr

dickiehead wrote: »

As an environmental engineer I can in fact confirm that we, the world are running out of Drinking water particularly in Ireland as almost 50% of our water is lost through our piping system

Do engineers learn about logical fallacies? Losing 50% (or any percent) of our water through a piping system is not in anyway proof that we are running out of water, only that we're crap at delivering it

They're two different horses, horse.

weldoninhio

dickiehead wrote: »

As an environmental engineer I can in fact confirm that we, the world are running out of Drinking water particularly in Ireland as almost 50% of our water is lost through our piping system

That is laughable. Where do you think the "lost" water goes to??