Landlord wants to access apartment without my consent

Stench Blossoms

I have received a letter from the letting agency telling me they will be accessing my apartment from Monday for approx 5 days to carry out works (cutting out ceilings, re-installing, removing doors and rehanging)

I'm not happy about this. I told them that could not enter my home without me being there and to contact me to arrange a time that would be more suitable. I have no problem with them doing this work but I would prefer to be present as the apartment contains a lot of valuable computer equipment.

They replied this

Whilst attendance is not mandatory the works being carried out are of a nature deemed important and permission for access for such works are contained in your lease. If you wish to offer an alternative 5 week days in February or March 2015 we will do our best to oblige.

This is the same crowd that told me they didn't have a copy of my lease.

Where do I stand here? I'm moving out on the 1st of April. I don't see why they can't do the work then.

Mrs OBumble

What does your lease say?

Allowing reasonable access for maintenance work is pretty standard.

One option might just be to stall things until March is over...

Stench Blossoms

Don't have the lease in front of me. I've asked them for a copy but they told me before they didn't have one for my apartment and it was up to me to provide them with it.

Edit: It's like they are doing everything they can to p!ss me off for the last month of my tenancy.

miezekatze

Are you able to work from home for a few days? If so, tell them what days suit you and ask them to come then. When I was still renting, I'd also get letters sometimes saying 'we need to access your apartment sometime between X and X+4 weeks to do some work, if you're not home we'll just let ourselves in'. I always let them know that I would not consent to them accessing the apartment while I'm not there, and we made an appointment instead and it was fine.

Considering it's 5 days and they're likely to leave a mess, I think I'd move out a week earlier if I were you and let them do the work then.

Stench Blossoms

I was thinking about working from home next week but if they are going to be doing that much work in the apartment I doubt I'd be able to get any work done so I'll need to take a week off. Earliest I can do that is the last week in March and I've told them that. Waiting for them to reply but I had this issue with them changing the locks (said the timing didn't suit) and they just went ahead and did it anyway.

doubter

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Don't have the lease in front of me. I've asked them for a copy but they told me before they didn't have one for my apartment and it was up to me to provide them with it.

Edit: It's like they are doing everything they can to p!ss me off for the last month of my tenancy.

ehm...based on what legality do they than have access to your apartment..?

Stench Blossoms

doubter wrote: »

ehm...based on what legality do they than have access to your apartment..?

I know.

They took over all the apartments (everyone is leased out) from another company a few months back.

ted1

doubter wrote: »

ehm...based on what legality do they than have access to your apartment..?

They have legal rights to have reasonable access to under go repairs.

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/entry-without-permission/

doors in apartments are fire doors , if there is an issue then it would be considered an emergency repair

doubter

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I know.

They took over all the apartments (everyone is leased out) from another company a few months back.

I'd contact them in writing stating it does not suit you that time, and offer an alternative date after 1st of april.I would also state entering the apartment without your consent would be reported to the gardai..

Stench Blossoms

Well I guess i'm screwed because they sent me a copy of my lease (from 2013) and it states

"That the landlord, or person authorised by the Landlord may at reasonable times, on giving 24 hours notice (unless in the case of emergency) enter the property for the purpose of viewing, inspecting it’s condition and state of repair, or for the purpose of repair, maintenance or repainting."

doubter

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Well I guess i'm screwed because they sent me a copy of my lease (from 2013) and it states

"That the landlord, or person authorised by the Landlord may at reasonable times, on giving 24 hours notice (unless in the case of emergency) enter the property for the purpose of viewing, inspecting it’s condition and state of repair, or for the purpose of repair, maintenance or repainting."

24 hours seems very short...but I guess you will have too now...of course, you could develop a nasty , very contagious gastric flu when they are due to come...;-)

spaceHopper

Sounds like they are doing fireproofing and have to do the work, face it they are not spending the money for the good of their health. As for the computer equipment I'd move anything that is not compatible with plaster dust.

Stench Blossoms

They replied to my request about a copy of the lease. Not about my offering a different time.

Stench Blossoms

Could I say that this is not a reasonable time?

MouseTail

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Could I say that this is not a reasonable time?

i don't think you have grounds for that.

Stench Blossoms

MouseTail wrote: »

i don't think you have grounds for that.

Didn't think so either.

Just going to have to empty the apartment this weekend of anything valuable.

Will never rent from these again. Can't wait to move. I'm sure there'll be more drama before I move out.

dudara

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Well I guess i'm screwed because they sent me a copy of my lease (from 2013) and it states

"That the landlord, or person authorised by the Landlord may at reasonable times, on giving 24 hours notice (unless in the case of emergency) enter the property for the purpose of viewing, inspecting it’s condition and state of repair, or for the purpose of repair, maintenance or repainting."

They still cannot enter without your permission, even if they give notice. The only exception is in case of emergency. The onus on you is to be reasonable and accommodate where possible. Leases cannot supersede your basic rights as a tenant.

They already entered without your permission to change the locks. That is trespass and a criminal offense. Report them as previously suggested in your earlier thread.

lorenzo87

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I have received a letter from the letting agency telling me they will be accessing my apartment from Monday for approx 5 days to carry out works (cutting out ceilings, re-installing, removing doors and rehanging)

I'm not happy about this. I told them that could not enter my home without me being there and to contact me to arrange a time that would be more suitable. I have no problem with them doing this work but I would prefer to be present as the apartment contains a lot of valuable computer equipment.

They replied this


This is the same crowd that told me they didn't have a copy of my lease.

Where do I stand here? I'm moving out on the 1st of April. I don't see why they can't do the work then.

They can't access the place without your permission.
It may be somebody else's place, but when you are a tenant, paying rent, you are entitled to your privacy. Ring them, be firm, tell them that they are not entering the apartment until you leave, and if they refuse get the police involved.

ted1

dudara wrote: »

They still cannot enter without your permission, even if they give notice. The only exception is in case of emergency. The onus on you is to be reasonable and accommodate where possible. Leases cannot supersede your basic rights as a tenant.

They already entered without your permission to change the locks. That is trespass and a criminal offense. Report them as previously suggested in your earlier thread.

Emergency repairs allow permission

Stench Blossoms

ted1 wrote: »

Emergency repairs allow permission

If it's an emergency repair (which i don't think it is - i've been told by other tenants that they are putting new doors in) then the apartment would be deemed unsafe and I shouldn't be living it it?

hdowney

They don't necessarily sound like emergency repairs. Bringing the building up in standards yes, but not necessarily emergency and urgent repairs. If they were then the OP would most likely be unhappy living in the building until the lease is up in the condition it is in, she seems perfectly happy to forgo the work until she moves out.

dudara

Based on your description, it doesn't sound like an emergency. If immediate remediation is required, say based on a Fire Inspector report, then they should say that.

TheChizler

If they were emergency repairs they wouldn't be scheduling them for next week.

Viper_JB

If they're going to be ripping the place apart, and kinda sounds like it from the work they're doing does the landlord need to provide alternative accommodation for the period when the work was being done?

Stench Blossoms

I've sent them the following

Hi XXXX,

Just been given these links:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

"However a lease cannot contain terms that contradict the legal rights of tenants and landlords. If this happens, your legal rights as a landlord or tenant supersede the terms in the lease. For example, landlords cannot enter the property at any time without seeking your permission. This is the case even where their right to enter the property at any time is stated in your lease."

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/entry-without-permission/

"Landlords and/or their authorised agents may request access at reasonable intervals to carry out repairs or inspections of the property. This must be done at a date/time agreed with you in advance. If a suggested time is not convenient an alternative should be arranged as soon as possible."

I have agreed a date of March 24th. I trust that no works will be carried out before this date as I have not given permission to do so.

Eldarion

Really interested to see how this one pans out so do please keep us updated.

blacklilly

It sounds like the LL is carrying out upgrade work, possibly related to fire safety.

It would seem from the extract of the lease that the OP provided that the LL can gain access giving the notice as dictated in the lease.

Tigger

these are scheduled works not emergency works
also you will not be able to live there with all the dust and damp and noise
if you are leaving soon simply tell them that you will not oblige them and to do it once you are gone

nothing they can do before 1st April to make you

Stench Blossoms

blacklilly wrote: »

It sounds like the LL is carrying out upgrade work, possibly related to fire safety.

It would seem from the extract of the lease that the OP provided that the LL can gain access giving the notice as dictated in the lease.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

However a lease cannot contain terms that contradict the legal rights of tenants and landlords. If this happens, your legal rights as a landlord or tenant supersede the terms in the lease. For example, landlords cannot enter the property at any time without seeking your permission. This is the case even where their right to enter the property at any time is stated in your lease.

Stench Blossoms

Got a reply.

I would ask that you refer to the prtb rules and regulations which govern landlord and tenant law.

Depending on works to be carried out the landlord or his contractors may in the event of an emergency or with prior notice gain entry to a property to carry out essential works .

TheChizler

You could ring the PRTB and ask what constitutes an emergency, I doubt something scheduled would count. I wouldn't give any details of your case though, they can only talk about the law, not individual situations.

Stench Blossoms

I'm going to ask them what emergency works they are carrying out.

dudara

Emergency access is allowed. That's a given.

Otherwise, your permission is required. No two ways about it. By all means go the PRTB. And go to the Property Agenrs Regulatory Authority.

syklops

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Didn't think so either.

Just going to have to empty the apartment this weekend of anything valuable.

Will never rent from these again. Can't wait to move. I'm sure there'll be more drama before I move out.

Name and shame them.

The_Morrigan

syklops wrote: »

Name and shame them.

Don't do anything of the sort.

ted1

syklops wrote: »

Name and shame them.

What's there to shame ? A proactive landlord doing upgrades which sound like they are fire related.

Plenty of people come in here complaining that there lsndlords do nothing.

This landlord deserves praise.

MouseTail

I don't understand the mistrust, I have had lots of tradesmen over the years doing work in my house whilst I have been in work, and nothing has ever been stolen, nor have I ever heard of this happening from other people. What makes you think a plasterer is going to nick your laptop?

cnocbui

So basically they know you are leaving and have chosen to inconvenience you while you are still in the property rather than just wait a few weeks and do the work when it is either vacant, so no one is inconvenienced, or there is a new tenant, whom they have decided not to inconvenience.

MouseTail

cnocbui wrote: »

So basically they know you are leaving and have chosen to inconvenience you while you are still in the property rather than just wait a few weeks and do the work when it is either vacant, so no one is inconvenienced, or there is a new tenant, whom they have decided not to inconvenience.

The OP said the LL/Agent has charge of all units, so the upgrading is being done on the entire block I assume. It doesn't take a week to hang fire doors in one unit, but neither does it make sense to do all units bar the OPs and then come back and do his in a few weeks.

jackofalltrades

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I have received a letter from the letting agency telling me they will be accessing my apartment from Monday for approx 5 days to carry out works (cutting out ceilings, re-installing, removing doors and rehanging)

I've removed and replaced ceilings on several properties.
While I don't know the construction of your apartment, in the ones that I've done it on it creates a huge amount of dust and mess.
Unless the work has to be done for emergency reasons, then I'd tell the landlord to wait to you move out.

I would ask that you refer to the prtb rules and regulations which govern landlord and tenant law.

Depending on works to be carried out the landlord or his contractors may in the event of an emergency or with prior notice gain entry to a property to carry out essential works .

I'd ask them to show you exactly which section they are referring to and how it relates to the work they are planning to carry out.

ted1 wrote: »

What's there to shame ? A proactive landlord doing upgrades which sound like they are fire related.

That's pure speculation on your part though.
If the apartment needs emergency work done to it, due to fire safety or other safety related reasons (ceiling falling down), then the OP shouldn't be there.

cnocbui

Well there goes any pretense from the LL that the works are an 'emergency' then.

The OP mentioned ceilings as well as doors:

cutting out ceilings, re-installing, removing doors and rehanging

In what way does 'sense' - as in a financial/logistical desire to get the entire body of work done in one go - negate the OP's legal rights as a tennant?

hdowney

you don't schedule emergency works. they were prepared to work with you to a point on a suitable time (as per previous emails) therefore them now claiming them as emergency works is a load of old tosh

garhjw

OP, I think they are being reasonable by giving you the opportunity to select different days. The work needs to be done, there could be an obligation on the landlord to carry out the work under fire regs.

If you are concerned about your property, take an inventory and send it to the letting agency

Stench Blossoms

garhjw wrote: »

OP, I think they are being reasonable by giving you the opportunity to select different days. The work needs to be done, there could be an obligation on the landlord to carry out the work under fire regs.

If you are concerned about your property, take an inventory and send it to the letting agency

They didn't initially agree to my suggestion of changing the date though, they just quoted my lease which said they can enter with 24 hours notice.

It wasn't until I sent them the links I quoted earlier that they agreed.

Another resident sent me what they have done to their doors. They've added chains which slam the doors closed. The doors we have are already self closing.

j2dab

You lack trust OP, these people aren't out to get you, rob your stuff or piss you off. Works need to be carried out, they have given you good notice for you to put things away if you need to. Get over it, much more important things to worry about.

Stench Blossoms

j2dab wrote: »

You lack trust OP, these people aren't out to get you, rob your stuff or piss you off. Works need to be carried out, they have given you good notice for you to put things away if you need to. Get over it, much more important things to worry about.

I'm moving out. Why can't they do it when I move out?

Id prefer not to trust someone now than have 1000e of computer and camera equipment stolen.

garhjw

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

They didn't initially agree to my suggestion of changing the date though, they just quoted my lease which said they can enter with 24 hours notice.

It wasn't until I sent them the links I quoted earlier that they agreed.

Another resident sent me what they have done to their doors. They've added chains which slam the doors closed. The doors we have are already self closing.

Looks like fire regs if they are doing this but am open to correction. They may have been directed to do this by the council or fire officer and could be required in order to comply with the buildings insurance policy. They could be required to have this completed by a specific date.

cnocbui

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I'm moving out. Why can't they do it when I move out?

Id prefer not to trust someone now than have 1000e of computer and camera equipment stolen.

Take photos of your goods, but I wouldn't worry too much about them being stolen, I think I would be far more concerned with them leaving behind a mess each day that I was expected to clean up.

ted1

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

They didn't initially agree to my suggestion of changing the date though, they just quoted my lease which said they can enter with 24 hours notice.

It wasn't until I sent them the links I quoted earlier that they agreed.

Another resident sent me what they have done to their doors. They've added chains which slam the doors closed. The doors we have are already self closing.

They need to be self closing for Fire regulations, deffo considered as emergency works. They wouldn't do it without reason, obviously there was an issue found with the existing set up

If the work isn't done, this could lead to a priory hall scenario

delahuntv

I hope the op doesn't require a reference from current ll in thd future. With his/her attitude they won't be getting one.

To me it looks like the op just wants to be a stubborn argumentative tenant just for the sake of it.

grow up kid

Carawaystick

I'd make life as hard for the Ll as possible.
I'd state in writing you will not allow any utilities be used by the Ll or his agents, so no electrics or water.
I'd ask for a site safety statement and a public liability insurance cert for the works in advance of any works taking place.
I'd ask for a written declaration the flat already meets the minimum standards as set down in law for the rental accomodation, or immediate(/whenever suits you) termination of the lease for default by the Ll.
I'd ask the Ll to imdemnify you against any loss as a result of these works, including theft or damage of contents.