Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Bussywussy

Thurs evening or Friday

Fattes

Bussywussy wrote: »

100% there's been no decision yet on whether yes or no.within IAG it's quite likely they will assign them to EI but as its a new type it'll need a good bit if notice training wise unlike the 330s where it became public EI were being assigned them Airbus already had them beginning production for IAG

But the A350, are a one for one replacement for the older 8 A330'S and one extra? They A330's need replacing also would have been nice to see them go for the A350-1000 to give them a bigger load capacity and more options for routes.

Tenger

Fattes wrote: »

But the A350, are a one for one replacement for the older 8 A330'S and one extra? They A330's need replacing also would have been nice to see them go for the A350-1000 to give them a bigger load capacity and more options for routes.

The current order is for 9 A350-900. EI originally ordered the XWB in 2006/7. After Finnair, they were I think the 2nd European airline to order it. At the time the -1000 wasn't an option. However the -1000 is a big jump in capacity and range from the A330's that they currently have. As it is, there are question marks over whether EI actually need the range capabilities of the A350, hence why they are going for the Regional version. (Its a software downgrade to the engines which extends engine lifespan)
It only provides a c.10% capacity increase over the A330. While it is definitely more efficient than the A330neo the question is whether the increased price is worth the slightly increased efficiency when EI only really operate 2 'proper' longhaul routes. (SFO and LAX) They may operate another 1 or two 'longhaul' by 2018 however?

Current fleet is 8 A330 with 2 more coming this Summer and another 2 A330 expected in 2017.
If the A350's do get delivered to EI in 2018 then they will operate a mixed fleet of A330 and A350, the A350's will replace the A332's and perhaps the older A333's. No need to replace newer A330's
(Quick online check tells me that current EI A330 fleet were delivered in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2007, 2009, 2009, 2010, [2 more in 2016])
It remains to be seen if EI actually take delivery of any of those A350, let alone all 9 of them.

Personally I think IAG might decide EI could operate 5 A350, 10 A330 and 6 A321LR post 2020.
A350 will replace the 4 A332 and the oldest A333 from 2018-2020, A321LR will replace the B757 and maybe add 2 more from 2018-2020, add 2 more A333 in 2017 and voila! we got a longhaul fleet of 20 aircraft by 2020.
Dual type rating on the A350/A330 make this a feasible option for a small airline and the logistical backing of IAG mean that maintenance support will be spread over the A350/A330/A330neo fleets of BA/IB/EI.

Fattes

Tenger wrote: »

The current order is for 9 A350-900. EI originally ordered the XWB in 2006/7. After Finnair, they were I think the 2nd European airline to order it. At the time the -1000 wasn't an option. However the -1000 is a big jump in capacity and range from the A330's that they currently have. As it is, there are question marks over whether EI actually need the range capabilities of the A350, hence why they are going for the Regional version. (Its a software downgrade to the engines which extends engine lifespan)
It only provides a c.10% capacity increase over the A330. While it is definitely more efficient than the A330neo the question is whether the increased price is worth the slightly increased efficiency when EI only really operate 2 'proper' longhaul routes. (SFO and LAX) They may operate another 1 or two 'longhaul' by 2018 however?

Current fleet is 8 A330 with 2 more coming this Summer and another 2 A330 expected in 2017.
If the A350's do get delivered to EI in 2018 then they will operate a mixed fleet of A330 and A350, the A350's will replace the A332's and perhaps the older A333's. No need to replace newer A330's
(Quick online check tells me that current EI A330 fleet were delivered in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2007, 2009, 2009, 2010, [2 more in 2016])

The A350-1000 has a shorter range than the 900, and BA have 18-20 of the 1,000 ordered.

Its about capacity, currently Aer Lingus operate at Passenger Load factor of 85% on trans Atlantic that peaks at around 95% for high season. (SAS, Lufthansa have about 82% ). Also EI have had double digit growth in these routes since 2012, approx 145,-170,000 per month at peak.

It is still not to late to alter the orders, in terms of replacement by the time the first A350's start to arrive some of the A330 will 20-13 years old and with the expected delivery dates lets call it an average of 15 years for the a330's. If Aer Lingus expect to market and brand as they do going forward their Aircraft will need to keep pace.

The big guess is they will take some of the 18 (1,000.) that BA have ordered, with delivery dates starting in 2018. The increased load capacity and cargo options could make them very profitable on the current routes and potential new routes.

Tenger

Not a bad point re the 1000 variant.

The thing is....BA want those -1000's. They wont give them away to EI.
EI have -900's slots. IAG might be able to get some wiggle room to change those to -1000's. (Am not sure is that possible?)
Keep in mind that the A350 production list is pretty booked up for the next 3-4 years.

And having a not too dissmilar capacity between both types allows EI to manage yield vs capacity across their route network as they already do with the c.270 seater A332 and the c.315 seater A330.

Fattes

Tenger wrote: »

Not a bad point re the 1000 variant.

The thing is....BA want those -1000's. They wont give them away to EI.
EI have -900's slots. IAG might be able to get some wiggle room to change those to -1000's. (Am not sure is that possible?)
Keep in mind that the A350 production list is pretty booked up for the next 3-4 years.

And having a not too dissmilar capacity between both types allows EI to manage yield vs capacity across their route network as they already do with the c.270 seater A332 and the c.315 seater A330.

It makes them the 5th biggest customer for the jet so there is a little room there. For the 1,000. you are looking at 355 not a million miles apart.

Jamie2k9

Tenger wrote: »

Not a bad point re the 1000 variant.

The thing is....BA want those -1000's. They wont give them away to EI.
EI have -900's slots. IAG might be able to get some wiggle room to change those to -1000's. (Am not sure is that possible?)
Keep in mind that the A350 production list is pretty booked up for the next 3-4 years.

And having a not too dissmilar capacity between both types allows EI to manage yield vs capacity across their route network as they already do with the c.270 seater A332 and the c.315 seater A330.

Not sure they can change the EI order as the deal was closed and EI given discounts because of the delays towards end of 2014.

Strumms

Just throwing this out here but none of the EI A350's are in assembly so they would only have a slot with Airbus in the production schedule so you would imagine if EI did want to upgrade to the 1000 series that it would be just a case of EI / IAG talking to airbus and agreeing a new price for the larger airframe no ?

Fattes

Strumms wrote: »

Just throwing this out here but none of the EI A350's are in assembly so they would only have a slot with Airbus in the production schedule so you would imagine if EI did want to upgrade to the 1000 series that it would be just a case of EI / IAG talking to airbus and agreeing a new price for the larger airframe no ?

That is what I was thinking, One might be on the production line all ready (I recall seeing something here). I am guessing with the increased, access to airframes operated by IAG, it may also give them some flexibility.

Tenger

Fattes wrote: »

That is what I was thinking, One might be on the production line all ready (I recall seeing something here). I am guessing with the increased, access to airframes operated by IAG, it may also give them some flexibility.

Its on the production list.....MSN 197, estimate based on planned production schedule is Q2 2018.
Actual assembly of the airframe wouldn't begin until approx 3-4 months prior to completion, however production of smaller parts might begin 5-6 months before that.
Which means the operator needs to lock in their specs 15-18 months ahead of planned delivery, especially important when an airline is introducing a new cabin product with a new type. (This combination caused a lot of problems with the introduction of the A380 and B787 for several airlines, whereas BA went with the trusted hard product on their A380)

Bussywussy

Tenger wrote: »

the operator needs to lock in their specs 15-18 months ahead of planned delivery

Ha It's EI we're talking about.

Tenger

Bussywussy wrote: »

Ha It's EI we're talking about.

Yeah good point. However should be easy enough;
Use the current J class seats. (How many to fit?
Use the same Y seats as IB. (IAG synergy?)
Panasonic IFE system.


Only question is Premium Economy or extra Economy seats, and that decision will be up to IAG, not EI.
Which wi-fi system to install will be a decision for IAG aswell. EI use a Panasonic system but IAG recently announced they would install GoGo internet on their aircraft from 2017.

Fattes

Tenger wrote: »

Its on the production list.....MSN 197, estimate based on planned production schedule is Q2 2018.
Actual assembly of the airframe wouldn't begin until approx 3-4 months prior to completion, however production smaller parts might begin 5-6 months before that.
Which means the operator needs to lock in their specs 15-18 months ahead of planned delivery, especially important when an airline is introducing a new cabin product with a new type. (This combination caused a lot of problems with the introduction of the A380 and B787 for several airlines, whereas BA went with the trusted hard product on their A380)

Cheers I wasnt sure where it was in the process, just that deliver is estimated for 2018

Mebuntu

EI's Summer 2016 operation is utilising the most varied types it has used in a long, long time, if not ever?

A333
A332
A319 (one left?)
A320
A321
ATR (operated by Stobart Air)
752 (operated by ACL)
762 (operated by Omni ex SNN)...is this painted in EI livery?
E190 (operated by BA City Flyer)

2015LC1

IAG announced now that GoGo will be installed on the 4 X B752s

Tenger wrote: »

Yeah good point. However should be easy enough;
Use the current J class seats. (How many to fit?
Use the same Y seats as IB. (IAG synergy?)
Panasonic IFE system.


Only question is Premium Economy or extra Economy seats, and that decision will be up to IAG, not EI.
Which wi-fi system to install will be a decision for IAG aswell. EI use a Panasonic system but IAG recently announced they would install GoGo internet on their aircraft from 2017.

Tenger

Summer 2000/2001:
A333, A332, A321, A320, Bae146,
B735, B734, MD11, FK50?

L1011

If you're splitting 33x, 32x and 73x variants, you've got two sizes and two subtypes of one of them in the ATRs (possibly 3 subtypes if the remaining -500s are used)

Tenger

Certainly more interesting for the spotters then A333/332/321/320 years! Couple that with dozens of FR B738s and DUB was quite monotonous. Now look at the variety!

(Still dozens of FR B738s of course!!)

Fattes

I guess this throws fuel on to the fire in relation to new aircraft, and how the allocation of A330 and A350's will go when they start using both.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-in-talks-with-qatar-airways-on-doha-flights-1.2669886

JCX BXC

Mebuntu wrote: »

762 (operated by Omni ex SNN)...is this painted in EI livery?

Yes :https://www.aerlingus.com/about-us/fleet/boeing-767/

Commences operations in 6 days.

Bsal

Hopefully they paint the B767 in full livery, and with winglets even nicer but I don't see that happening.

roundymac

When is that 767 due to start? I must try and get up to SNN and see this year.
Did'nt spot that post. TKS.

Shannon757

Carnacalla wrote: »

Yes :https://www.aerlingus.com/about-us/fleet/boeing-767/

Commences operations in 6 days.

roundymac wrote: »

When is that 767 due to start? I must try and get up to SNN and see this year.

.

Dardania

More on the A321neoLR coming out now:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6711334/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iata-aer-lingus-mulls-boeing-phase-out-425985/

Dardania

Interesting article popped up on airliners.net about A380s for EI for JFK route:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6714183/

Thinking about it, they could brand it as part of Open Skies? Generic name, they already fly to JFK, and would allow re-assignment over time / winter months...

What I find interesting, if this is true, is what EI will do with all of their freed up A330s...

Fattes

Dardania wrote: »

Interesting article popped up on airliners.net about A380s for EI for JFK route:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6714183/

Thinking about it, they could brand it as part of Open Skies? Generic name, they already fly to JFK, and would allow re-assignment over time / winter months...

What I find interesting, if this is true, is what EI will do with all of their freed up A330s...

Nice to see Willie, looking at all options and showing a little vision, even if it comes to nothing./

L1011

Never received one.

Locker10a

Tenger wrote: »

From chatting to EI mates I would concur with the above. Rather than follow the orvious CEO strategy of go for a seperate market segment the current leadership in EI seem to think that cutting back will increase efficiency which will make them able to compete against the biggest airline in the world.
Im no CEO and I dont have an MBA...but i dont think thats a good strategy.

Is there any chance we will see new leadership in EI ? And if so, when??

joeysoap

I have heard that staff have their increments frozen for the past 5 years. Is there any truth in this and if so why aren't the unions doing something about it? Afaik increments are part and parcel of your contract with your employer.

Marcusm

joeysoap wrote: »

I have heard that staff have their increments frozen for the past 5 years. Is there any truth in this and if so why aren't the unions doing something about it? Afaik increments are part and parcel of your contract with your employer.

Only if you're a civil servant, not if you live/die in the commercial world.