LOI soccer player stopped using weights to "get around the park better"...

WHIP IT!

An interesting story in one of the papers today about St Pat's midfielder James Chambers who is "slimmer" this year having stopped lifting weights - as he had done, I gather, fairly regularly last year - because it made him "blocky and bulky".

I'm just going to type out a quick excerpt from the article, I thought it might provoke some lively discussion about weight-lifting for field sports like soccer, GAA, rugby etc...

National Newspaper Sport section
"Chambers said 'I'd always be of the mindset of getting an extra percent. I'd always do extra work, I like doing hard work.
'Days off and before training, I'd hit the gym. Maybe I didn't feel myself getting bigger, but obviously it looked like I was. It was just something that happened over time.'
St Pat's boss Liam Buckley noticed too and suggested he lose some of the bulk as it would ensure he was quicker around the pitch.
Buckley said: 'I know as a football you get around the park much better. You don't need to be that musclebound. If you're playing rugby, great.
'We had a chat with him and he wanted to know what he had to do and he said 'right, great'. He's in great condition.'
...
Chambers worked all winter with the Saints' new S&C coach Paul Stewart and hardly lifted a weight.
'It was just a case of losing some of that bulk, which is not easy to do. Losing fat is easy, you go on a diet, but muscle is harder to lose.'..."

power pants

180cm

77kg


hardly massive by any stretch

Darkest Horse

WHIP IT! wrote: »

An interesting story in one of the papers today about St Pat's midfielder James Chambers who is "slimmer" this year having stopped lifting weights - as he had done, I gather, fairly regularly last year - because it made him "blocky and bulky".

I'm just going to type out a quick excerpt from the article, I thought it might provoke some lively discussion about weight-lifting for field sports like soccer, GAA, rugby etc...

It might have been warranted. There is such a thing as non-functional hypertrophy but the way they went about it was possibly a bit questionable. Had he been training correctly in the first place, muscle growth could have been minimised and the neuromuscular enhancements associated with weight training could have been attained. Then the coach comes in and it gets reduced to nothing. That's the bit I don't agree with but then again, everyone has their preferred approach. He could have lost the bulk while weight training in an appropriate way and had the best of both worlds.....

power pants

llok at Ronaldo and bale since the signed for Real. do a lot of weight training and done properly has improved them

ECOLII

Another way to look at it would be "overtraining affected performance" or stop lifting weights for the sake of doing them and actually develop a plan specific to the sport

Also you would have to compare what he was doing when he was "doing weights" compared to the functional stuff he was doing with the S&C coach, otherwise its just speculation as a result of correlation.

Too many people draw conclusions on a variable without actually taking into account all other factors and how they interact with said variable.

I could use myself as a counter argument, I am a long distance runner who got leaner with the introduction of weights and improved power and ultimately performance.

WHIP IT!

To be honest, my take on it is - neither player or manager really know much about weight-training for football, or possibly for anything!

I would hazard a guess the chap was a Chest-Day-Gun-Show Warrior in the gym and perhaps didn't have the world's most suitable diet... the old ill-thought-out adage that weight-training "slows you down and makes you bulky" from a chap as experienced as Buckley just proves how many years behind the man - and probably LOI soccer - is.

I'm guessing Chambers was a bit overweight, dropped a few pounds and hence is moving better - as anyone would.... a quick google of him doesn't show up any pictures - old or new - where he is bulky or musclebound.

His quote that "fat is easy to lose but muscle is hard to lose" is fairly staggering... if only 't'were true in fact...

roast222

WHIP IT! wrote: »

To be honest, my take on it is - neither player or manager really know much about weight-training for football, or possibly for anything!

I would hazard a guess the chap was a Chest-Day-Gun-Show Warrior in the gym and perhaps didn't have the world's most suitable diet... the old ill-thought-out adage that weight-training "slows you down and makes you bulky" from a chap as experienced as Buckley just proves how many years behind the man - and probably LOI soccer - is.

I'm guessing Chambers was a bit overweight, dropped a few pounds and hence is moving better - as anyone would.... a quick google of him doesn't show up any pictures - old or new - where he is bulky or musclebound.

His quote that "fat is easy to lose but muscle is hard to lose" is fairly staggering... if only 't'were true in fact...

I'd agree with that. Weight lifting has to be specific to each particular sport. Weights for a rugby player will be much different to weights for a soccer player. Was this Buckley fellow been given the proper program initially, it all sounds like a generalisation and the comment about finding it harder to lose muscle than fat is daft.

Hanley

Haven't read anything here yet, but premiership players use weights, and they're better than LOI players. Therefore he's wrong.

...well, that's ONE of the reasons his opinion is irrelevant.

Duck's hoop

I know it's not directly comparable, but being possesed of considerable muscle mass doesn't seem to impede international track and field athletes; pentathletes, sprinters etc. or indeed those monstrous American Football dudes. They can shift.

And as horrible as he is, yer man Ronaldo is pretty stacked. Mightn't get his game with Pat's mind you. Too big.

guile4582

i'm 5ft 11 and 90kgs and have explosive speed and great stamina for my age and level (33 yo)

weights have helped me immensely, i can also ride challenges easily and seldom bullied off the ball, 5 years ago was a different story. I was younger but unable to have the impact I have now.

WHIP IT!

guile4582 wrote: »

i'm 5ft 11 and 90kgs and have explosive speed and great stamina for my age and level (33 yo)

weights have helped me immensely, i can also ride challenges easily and seldom bullied off the ball, 5 years ago was a different story. I was younger but unable to have the impact I have now.

You could literally repeat this exact paragraph for me. Same age, weight n all... except I'm three-quarters of an inch taller but whatever :cool:

Much more equipped at 33 to play football (GAA in my case) than 5, even 10, years ago...

Sangre

Maybe I'm overestimating the level of thought put into training but surely he would have various fitness markers he should have been hitting throughout the season? Presumably itshould be obvious pretty quickly if a player is dropping off from the standards he has set himself.

While we're relying on vague quotes here, so I don't want to read too much into it, it doesn't seem much thought was put in other than 'you seem slower' so it must be your muscles.

LuckyLloyd

Squats, Deadlifts, Power Cleans, Explosive Jumps, Pull Ups, Kettlebell Swings, erg rowing, etc through correct full ranges of motion allied to lots and lots and lots of mobility work could only make a footballer a better athlete imo.

Lots of pressing, curls, isolation weight machines and crunches and planking with limited stretching work probably won't make much of a difference. If doing this repeatedly and adding lots of upper body mass it is likely to have a negative effect.

And at the end of the day, playing and practicing the sport concerned will always be the bedrock - and if a player is disimproving due to gym work over a long period and continuing with what they're doing inspite of that it seems very misguided to me.

If someone is telling me strengthened hips, hamstrings, glutes and quads are going to impair a footballer's performance; or that explosive jumping movements will make them slower then, well, I'll have to question that.

But what the **** do I know...

guile4582

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Squats, Deadlifts, Power Cleans, Explosive Jumps, Pull Ups, Kettlebell Swings, erg rowing, etc through correct full ranges of motion allied to lots and lots and lots of mobility work could only make a footballer a better athlete imo.

Lots of pressing, curls, isolation weight machines and crunches and planking with limited stretching work probably won't make much of a difference. If doing this repeatedly and adding lots of upper body mass it is likely to have a negative effect.

.

spot on, i "wasted" my first two years of weight training doing isolation exercises and sometimes spending up to 2 hours in the gym! now its 50 mins tops, lots of deadlifts, squats and supersets. Ticker and muscles purring

Darkest Horse

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Squats, Deadlifts, Power Cleans, Explosive Jumps, Pull Ups, Kettlebell Swings, erg rowing, etc through correct full ranges of motion allied to lots and lots and lots of mobility work could only make a footballer a better athlete imo.

The problem with soccer players is trying to get them to do those lifts is a challenge because the opinion of the Pat's player is fairly widespread in the game. You have to sneak it in with unweighted single leg squats, pushups, weighted hip thrusts etc. I think the initial approach was all wrong for the culture within soccer. It'll change, but slowly.

Chucky the tree

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I know it's not directly comparable, but being possesed of considerable muscle mass doesn't seem to impede international track and field athletes; pentathletes, sprinters etc. or indeed those monstrous American Football dudes. They can shift.

And as horrible as he is, yer man Ronaldo is pretty stacked. Mightn't get his game with Pat's mind you. Too big.

It does impede them from performing to a decent standard for a pro-longed period of time though.

Mellor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It does impede them from performing to a decent standard for a pro-longed period of time though.

Based on what exactly?

deadlybuzzman

About 4 years ago in a gym I came across a workout programme typed out with Sligo Rovers across the top of it so presume it was club sanctioned.
It was a bog standard bodybuilding programme that could've been lifted out of any stupid BB magazine. I was shocked at how crap it was, huge amounts of reps and loads of stuff like pec deck work etc

tastyt

I have a bit of experience training with league of Ireland teams. I can tell you that football in this country is way behind rugby and gaa when it comes to s&c.

I don't know anything about this case except I am aware of the player and he had bulked up a bit over the last year or so. I would put my mortgage on it been done in a pure hypertrophy, isolation, curls kind of training environment. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in general but obviously the lad should have been leaning towards the strength training side of things.
I'd be very suprised if he had a proper squat or deadlift programme either which is shocking really for a semi / professional footballer.

On the getting smaller argument I do believe it will benefit him. I'm not saying he should lose strength but he's a midfield player and was carrying weight he didn't need . He looked like he was all " guns and show " which is pretty useless when your job is to run 10k over 90 Minutes. Again, I totally agree that weight training is essential for today's football player but this lads training was just aimed at the wrong goal.

ECOLII

tastyt wrote: »

On the getting smaller argument I do believe it will benefit him. I'm not saying he should lose strength but he's a midfield player and was carrying weight he didn't need . He looked like he was all " guns and show " which is pretty useless when your job is to run 10k over 90 Minutes. Again, I totally agree that weight training is essential for today's football player but this lads training was just aimed at the wrong goal.

I think this is a mindset also that needs bit of updating and I feel is one that the general go do laps approach during preseason. 10k during a match would imply aerobic endurance but with the start stop nature it is more like an endurance sprinter (300-350 x 20-30m sprints) then it changes the dynamic of the training, anaerobic capacity and lactate removal becomes alot more prevalent and suddenly that 10k runner endurance you were looking is replaced with the characteristics more associated with that of a 400/800m runner

Alf Veedersane

ECOLII wrote: »

I think this is a mindset also that needs bit of updating and I feel is one that the general go do laps approach during preseason. 10k during a match would imply aerobic endurance but with the start stop nature it is more like an endurance sprinter (300-350 x 20-30m sprints) then it changes the dynamic of the training, anaerobic capacity and lactate removal becomes alot more prevalent and suddenly that 10k runner endurance you were looking is replaced with the characteristics more associated with that of a 400/800m runner

To be fair, I don't think he was necessarily putting it in the context of a 10k 'steady state' run.

But I do think teams are moving away from the 'laps, laps and more laps' approach to fitness.

Unless it's a Junior football team that's managed by an oul lad that had a trial with the county minor team in '68.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I'd definitely think he's talking ****e. I'm 25 and I'd say I'm the fastest and fittest out of the group I regularly play 7 a side with. But I am also the smallest (5 8 and 65 kg). I'm grand in a bit of space but if anyone catches me I'm ****ed as they'll just nudge me off the ball. This time last year I was only 60 kg and the problem was even worse but I started lifting a bit and things are gradually improving. Still not exactly an enforcer on the pitch but hopefully another year of steady gains and I'll be able to hold my own a bit better.

Lago

Is this really a surprise? I mean I was a bit surprised that a professional or semi-professional soccer player was thinking this way but I'm far less surprise that it happened in Ireland than in say England. It's an age old attitude brought on by the GAA in my opinion, where just sheer punish is seen as the way to improve athletes physically which is probably what happened with this guy. He just went to the gym with no plan or idea why he was going, other than to be doing something, he probably overtrained or trained wrong, became fatigued and inflexible and wasn't able to use the fitness and strength he had as a result.

I see it all the time in the GAA from old men on the sideline claiming boxing made you quick as anything without lifting a weight to managers trying their players like an extreme social weight loss club or a poorly run athletics team. Relying on word of mouth or paying large sums uneducated personal trainers to train their team instead of just picking up a book and trying to learn a bit about exercise and nutrition themselves.

So like I said, I think it comes from the conservatism of the GAA which unfortunately has seeped into the rest of the country's domestic sports by the looks of it.

papu

Lago wrote: »

Is this really a surprise? I mean I was a bit surprised that a professional or semi-professional soccer player was thinking this way but I'm far less surprise that it happened in Ireland than in say England. It's an age old attitude brought on by the GAA in my opinion, where just sheer punish is seen as the way to improve athletes physically which is probably what happened with this guy. He just went to the gym with no plan or idea why he was going, other than to be doing something, he probably overtrained or trained wrong, became fatigued and inflexible and wasn't able to use the fitness and strength he had as a result.

I see it all the time in the GAA from old men on the sideline claiming boxing made you quick as anything without lifting a weight to managers trying their players like an extreme social weight loss club or a poorly run athletics team. Relying on word of mouth or paying large sums uneducated personal trainers to train their team instead of just picking up a book and trying to learn a bit about exercise and nutrition themselves.

So like I said, I think it comes from the conservatism of the GAA which unfortunately has seeped into the rest of the country's domestic sports by the looks of it.

That attitude is changing, Just look at the GAA players in the top performing counties Kilkenny, Dublin, Tip, Kerry etc etc, The players are getting much bigger and the games are becoming more physical. Even in College GAA there is much more of an emphasis on strength training from my experience.

A decent article on the topic
http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2406131229-training-smart-an-interview-with-cian-oneill/

“You should never fear strength and certainly not power because if you want to get faster you have to get stronger,” is O’Neill’s clinical counter-argument. “You need to increase force and force comes from muscle output.

tastyt

ECOLII wrote: »

I think this is a mindset also that needs bit of updating and I feel is one that the general go do laps approach during preseason. 10k during a match would imply aerobic endurance but with the start stop nature it is more like an endurance sprinter (300-350 x 20-30m sprints) then it changes the dynamic of the training, anaerobic capacity and lactate removal becomes alot more prevalent and suddenly that 10k runner endurance you were looking is replaced with the characteristics more associated with that of a 400/800m runner

Yes your right all I was saying was that for the position he plays there actually would be a lot of steady state running too over an hour and a half.

A player like Ronaldo relies a lot more on explosive bursts and doesn't have to worry about the slog of getting up and down the pitch for 90 mins. It's great to incorporate the anaerobic and Sprint training but pure aerobic base is very important in some positions in football especially.

A lot of lads look at Ronaldo and say " beast " but it's mainly due to his low bf % and him obviously being very well conditioned. But weight wise he'd only be a little more than 12 stone and he's over 6 foot , which is hardly stacked.

Yes, If you are very light or small some hypertrophy training for football may be needed but unlike gaa/rugby I think footballers should be encouraged to strength train and concentrate on explosive movements/jumps on top of their field sessions

ECOLII

Apologies I was using your comment as a jump off point in relation to this as unfortunately alot of clubs are still viewing low medium intensity aerobic running as the solution to lack of fitness to last 90 minutes.

tastyt

ECOLII wrote: »

Apologies I was using your comment as a jump off point in relation to this as unfortunately alot of clubs are still viewing low medium intensity aerobic running as the solution to lack of fitness to last 90 minutes.

Jesus no, no need for apologies, what you were saying was right just wanted to explain what I meant

Alf Veedersane

ECOLII wrote: »

Apologies I was using your comment as a jump off point in relation to this as unfortunately alot of clubs are still viewing low medium intensity aerobic running as the solution to lack of fitness to last 90 minutes.

A large part of the problem, especially in the GAA, is a lack of resources. Or where resources are invested in the wrong places.

And what you'll get then is a manager or trainer who still believes in the three Ls: Laps, Laps and Laps.

Maybe a few shuttle runs but only if there's enough time after the laps.

LuckyLloyd

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A large part of the problem, especially in the GAA, is a lack of resources. Ore where resources are invested in the wrong places.

And what you'll get then is a manager or trainer who still believes in the three Ls: Laps, Laps and Laps.

Maybe a few shuttle runs but only if there's enough time after the laps.

I remember as a teenager doing jaysus I dunno...100's upon 100's of training sessions playing GAA and I remember running lots of laps but genuinely can't remember ever doing a bunch of <20 yard sprints.

If we're talking about adult GAA or Soccer teams my opinion would be that the players should be assumed to be taking care of their conditioning outside of training. If I took over a team I'd NEVER do a single bit of 'fitness' in training. Technique / Tactics / practice games imo. Nothing you can do in an hour on a field is ever going to equate to what needs to be done anyway if fitness is a goal. Adults looking to pursue sport should be getting their long steady aerobic work in or their strength work. It shouldn't be left to laps around the field or endless pushups two times a week.

Alf Veedersane

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I remember as a teenager doing jaysus I dunno...100's upon 100's of training sessions playing GAA and I remember running lots of laps but genuinely can't remember ever doing a bunch of <20 yard sprints.

If we're talking about adult GAA or Soccer teams my opinion would be that the players should be assumed to be taking care of their conditioning outside of training. If I took over a team I'd NEVER do a single bit of 'fitness' in training. Technique / Tactics / practice games imo. Nothing you can do in an hour on a field is ever going to equate to what needs to be done anyway if fitness is a goal. Adults looking to pursue sport should be getting their long steady aerobic work in or their strength work. It shouldn't be left to laps around the field or endless pushups two times a week.

The bigger/better clubs tend to give players programmes to follow on their own time now. I can understand a couple of sessions of fitness work in preseason but from what I've seen, too much time is given to it in a lot of clubs.

Sure if it worked for Ger Loughnane...!

tastyt

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The bigger/better clubs tend to give players programmes to follow on their own time now. I can understand a couple of sessions of fitness work in preseason but from what I've seen, too much time is given to it in a lot of clubs.

Sure if it worked for Ger Loughnane...!

Does anyone remember a couple of years ago at a gaa awards show, rte showed a clip of Davy fitzGerald sitting in his car at 6 in the morning up in the hills, driving behind hurler Tony Kelly in the dark, shining his lights on him and beeping his horn to get him to keep going?

They went back to the studio and were talking about how great it was and what a great coach Davey was. That's what your still up against in some places. And that's only 2 years ago

Doug Cartel

I'm probably going to embarrass myself now with my lack of GAA knowledge, but as far as I know, Davy Fitz is considered a good coach because before he turned up the team was treating their training and games like a bit of a social event and he instilled in them a feeling that they should be playing to win. Waking lads up at the crack of dawn to go make them run might not be the optimal thing from a physiological point of view, but there is a big psychological element to it. Developing that feeling that you have fought hard for something, that you deserve to win and that you are not going to throw all that work away by coasting at any point.

Alf Veedersane

tastyt wrote: »

Does anyone remember a couple of years ago at a gaa awards show, rte showed a clip of Davy fitzGerald sitting in his car at 6 in the morning up in the hills, driving behind hurler Tony Kelly in the dark, shining his lights on him and beeping his horn to get him to keep going?

They went back to the studio and were talking about how great it was and what a great coach Davey was. That's what your still up against in some places. And that's only 2 years ago

That was from Behind The Banner. He brought them off on some 'army training' camp as well that pre-season.

I winced.

Alf Veedersane

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I'm probably going to embarrass myself now with my lack of GAA knowledge, but as far as I know, Davy Fitz is considered a good coach because before he turned up the team was treating their training and games like a bit of a social event and he instilled in them a feeling that they should be playing to win. Waking lads up at the crack of dawn to go make them run might not be the optimal thing from a physiological point of view, but there is a big psychological element to it. Developing that feeling that you have fought hard for something, that you deserve to win and that you are not going to throw all that work away by coasting at any point.

You're right in saying the team's performances aren't entirely based on the quality of training but it's just an example of outdated training.

And if it's being done like that at county level in some places, it's most definitely being done to a large degree at club level without the motivation Davy instilled in the team.

tastyt

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I'm probably going to embarrass myself now with my lack of GAA knowledge, but as far as I know, Davy Fitz is considered a good coach because before he turned up the team was treating their training and games like a bit of a social event and he instilled in them a feeling that they should be playing to win. Waking lads up at the crack of dawn to go make them run might not be the optimal thing from a physiological point of view, but there is a big psychological element to it. Developing that feeling that you have fought hard for something, that you deserve to win and that you are not going to throw all that work away by coasting at any point.

Ya your definitely right about the psychological side. That's the only possible reason you would do that training.

I suppose they hope that when the **** hits the fan in a match that lads will have a pack or group mentality from the common suffering and commitment and that might drag them through

Chucky the tree

Mellor wrote: »

Based on what exactly?

I would say based on the nature of their training. American Football player, sprinters etc aren't built/trained for endurance.

Danye

tastyt wrote: »

Does anyone remember a couple of years ago at a gaa awards show, rte showed a clip of Davy fitzGerald sitting in his car at 6 in the morning up in the hills, driving behind hurler Tony Kelly in the dark, shining his lights on him and beeping his horn to get him to keep going?

They went back to the studio and were talking about how great it was and what a great coach Davey was. That's what your still up against in some places. And that's only 2 years ago

Did they not win Liam McCarthy that year? And in doing so, did they not beat some counties who would have had well known and well respected S&C coaches who were looking after their panel?

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

Did they not win Liam McCarthy that year? And in doing so, did they not beat some counties who would have had well known and well respected S&C coaches who were looking after their panel?

Yes.

And it's entirely down to Davy Fitz-style training.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes.

And it's entirely down to Davy Fitz-style training.

Sarcasm?

I'm not saying I'd agree 100% with Davey's routine if what's being mentioned in this thread about his style is actually true. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

LuckyLloyd

Danye wrote: »

Sarcasm?

I'm not saying I'd agree 100% with Davey's routine if what's being mentioned in this thread about his style is actually true. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Having the best players in a given year is certainly a good method.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes.

And it's entirely down to Davy Fitz-style training.

Sarcasm?

I'm not saying I'd agree 100% with Davey's routine if what's being mentioned in this thread about his style is actually true. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

Sarcasm?

I'm not saying I'd agree 100% with Davey's routine if what's being mentioned in this thread about his style is actually true. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

There is and there's more to preparation of players than just the physical training.

But Davy's physical training is akin to shooting the cat with a sawn-off shotgun until the cat's skin has been obliterated.

Danye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Having the best players in a given year is certainly a good method.

I agree completely but to suggest that Davey had nothing to do with it would be nonsense, regardless of whether you agree with his routine or ideology.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But Davy's physical training is akin to shooting the cat with a sawn-off shotgun until the cat's skin has been obliterated.

Maybe it is. I don't know, as I've never trained under DF.

These boys job is to win things though and he did exactly that. So whether you agree with it or not, it brought Clare an All Ireland hurling championship.

ford2600

At any decent senior club training doing laps is long gone. It's 9 years since I played senior GAA and even in my last 5/6 years there was a massive changes in training, mainly for the better.
I've no doubt all inter county set ups aren't ideal but with amateur athletes in a team sport it is really hard as a manager to tick all boxes.

On the Clare thing and Davey, I've no doubt he did stupid stuff and roared more than necessary but he has learned over the years to have good men around him. There is no way he had much of any input on physical training, it seemed to me he learned to delegate.

He is a bit nuts though. The only time I met him was after we had played the warm up game in Thurles before a An All Ireland quarter final, we were sharing same toilets/showers as Clare team who were getting ready to go out on field as we were showering(not ideal for an All ireland quater final but there you go). I went to use a cubicle and there was Davy roaring at the wall and striking himself across the back with his own hurley.

As an aside I trained a few times under Jason Ryan, current Kildare manager and the approach of him and other younger guys is light years ahead of what I was doing 20 years ago. Today's players know what other counties players are doing and don't put up with nonsense for long.

I've no doubt GAA has a long way to go, and it will always be somewhat conservative, it's not quite in the dark ages as per the Davy clip

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

Maybe it is. I don't know, as I've never trained under DF.

These boys job is to win things though and he did exactly that. So whether you agree with it or not, it brought Clare an All Ireland hurling championship.

The discussion isn't about Davy but that old school method of training players and where you have players of that aren't of the calibre and youth of those young bucks from Clare, it can be counter productive.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The discussion isn't about Davy but that old school method of training players and where you have players of that aren't of the calibre and youth of those young bucks from Clare, it can be counter productive.

Yeah it's going slightly off topic. All my point was is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Somebody said they "winced" when they seen a video of DF training or something like that, but whether people like it or not, it worked for him as they won the Championship.

Back to the original topic, if Chambers has the season of his life, while his decision to lay off lifting be justified?

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

Back to the original topic, if Chambers has the season of his life, while his decision to lay off lifting be justified?

It could be said the decision to lay off the lifting he was doing was justified.

But it's unlikely the lifting he was doing was useful for improving his game anyway.

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But it's unlikely the lifting he was doing was useful for improving his game anyway.

What are you basing this on?

Alf Veedersane

Danye wrote: »

What are you basing this on?

The earlier post which suggested it was a lot of upper with a bit of a bulk going on

Danye

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The earlier post which suggested it was a lot of upper with a bit of a bulk going on

So your basing your opinion on somebody else's speculative opinion, without knowing the player and without knowing what the player did or didn't do in the gym?