2nd vehicle Commercial Tax

Redtop

I use an old commercial jeep as a 2nd vehicle to pull a dog trailer and haul rubbish, because I don't want to ruin my car. When I went to renew the Motortax on the jeep, I was told that I needed an RF111A Goods Only Declaration form signed by the Garda and also proof that I am VAT Registered/Self Employeed. I am a PAYE worker, not self-employed, so these will be difficult to obtain. I don't want to have to sell the old jeep, because I cannot tax it commercially. Suggestions ?

9935452

Redtop wrote: »

I use an old commercial jeep as a 2nd vehicle to pull a dog trailer and haul rubbish, because I don't want to ruin my car. When I went to renew the Motortax on the jeep, I was told that I needed an RF111A Goods Only Declaration form signed by the Garda and also proof that I am VAT Registered/Self Employeed. I am a PAYE worker, not self-employed, so these will be difficult to obtain. I don't want to have to sell the old jeep, because I cannot tax it commercially. Suggestions ?

If you had a herd number or flock number this can work too.
Try a different county council . they have been known to have different requirements.
Is it already taxed commercially by you?? and you are just renewing. If yes do it online.

CiniO

Redtop wrote: »

I use an old commercial jeep as a 2nd vehicle to pull a dog trailer and haul rubbish, because I don't want to ruin my car.

Do cars get ruined because of pulling a trailer?

When I went to renew the Motortax on the jeep, I was told that I needed an RF111A Goods Only Declaration form signed by the Garda and also proof that I am VAT Registered/Self Employeed. I am a PAYE worker, not self-employed, so these will be difficult to obtain. I don't want to have to sell the old jeep, because I cannot tax it commercially. Suggestions ?

Well, if you don't use the jeep for business purposes, you should tax it privately.

Cheensbo

Use your pps number on form RF111a (This would be your vat number if self employed), and in the usage section declare your job title and your need to handle goods in line with your employment.

Have the gardai sign it and return to tax office.

hi5

VAT numbers are easily validated ......if they wanted to.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

bladespin

hi5 wrote: »

VAT numbers are easily validated ......if they wanted to.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

Not if that server is anything to go by

unkel

All of that is fraud, lads.

@Redtop - you are using the vehicle privately. So tax it privately.

Redtop

Thanks for all the replies. I bought it last year when the tax was in date. I am renewing it now for the first time under my own name. Herd Number or Flock Number will not suffice. I will certainly try neighbouring Tax Office. My main car does not have hitch and I'd rather not put one on it. The jeep (2nd vehicle) is also for hauling junk that would wreck a car and for use in very bad weather. It only has 2 seats and a large cargo area. I already Tax my main car Privately, so I don't see why I should have to pay Private Tax Twice, as I can only drive one vehicle at a time. I am OK with paying the Commercial Tax on top of the Private Tax for 2 vehicles. If I fail to tax it Commercially, then I'll have to sell it, but that would be unfortunate.

unkel

Redtop wrote: »

I don't see why I should have to pay Private Tax Twice

Seriously? Because you use the car privately?

Cheensbo

unkel wrote: »

All of that is fraud, lads.

@Redtop - you are using the vehicle privately. So tax it privately.

Where's the fraud?

CiniO

Cheensbo wrote: »

Where's the fraud?

I'd say f.e. here:

and in the usage section declare your job title and your need to handle goods in line with your employment.

Have the gardai sign it and return to tax office.

Cheensbo

CiniO wrote: »

I'd say f.e. here:

Spose it comes across as looking like that,

Without getting too much into the fact that its a ridiculous declaration to have to make, as, if followed directly to the letter of the law it is almost impossible to not break the law at some point or other (except for vehicles owned by companies & operated by a depot - as driving home from work is not a commercial use)

For my occupation - I need considerable load space to carry equipment, I also need the ability to access rough terrain etc & also need a 2t+ towing capacity so a 4wd commercial is necessary. However, I am not a sole trader, I do not have a vat number either.

But, as my vehicle is used to assist in providing me an income I MUST have it insured as a commercial (insurance companies don't give you the option anymore anyway) and according to the policy it also must be taxed as so. I use the rf111a form to declare my occupation & why I need it, and I use my pps number as I do not have a VAT/herd/flock number.

Is that fraud? If it is, what else am I supposed to do? Pay private tax and risk being uninsured & use a private vehicle for commercial purposes?

CJ Haughey

A letter from your boss stating that you use the vehicle for work purposes will suffice the new criteria for taxing commercially also.

Bpmull

For all the talk that it gets on here I've never actually heard of anyone being done for this or even questioned by a garda at a checkpoint etc. once you have valid insurance, tax, nct / cvrt they don't seem to care after that that's just the impression I get. What actually happens if you do get a garda on a bad day who does you for it is it points and fine or do they take you to court or do they take the van it doesn't seem to explicitly say it anywhere.

CJ Haughey

Bpmull wrote: »

For all the talk that it gets on here I've never actually heard of anyone being done for this or even questioned by a garda at a checkpoint etc. once you have valid insurance, tax, nct / cvrt they don't seem to care after that that's just the impression I get. What actually happens if you do get a garda on a bad day who does you for it is it points and fine or do they take you to court or do they take the van it doesn't seem to explicitly say it anywhere.

You are completely missing the point of the ops thread.

Bpmull

CJ Haughey wrote: »

You are completely missing the point of the ops thread.

I just meant it as a general point. Sure I think the op knows at this stage they get the form use pps number instead of vat number go to a Garda station get them to sign it back to the tax office get the disc. Worst case scenario you need a letter from your employer but I don't think they will.

CiniO

Cheensbo wrote: »

Spose it comes across as looking like that,

Without getting too much into the fact that its a ridiculous declaration to have to make, as, if followed directly to the letter of the law it is almost impossible to not break the law at some point or other (except for vehicles owned by companies & operated by a depot - as driving home from work is not a commercial use)

For my occupation - I need considerable load space to carry equipment, I also need the ability to access rough terrain etc & also need a 2t+ towing capacity so a 4wd commercial is necessary. However, I am not a sole trader, I do not have a vat number either.

But, as my vehicle is used to assist in providing me an income I MUST have it insured as a commercial (insurance companies don't give you the option anymore anyway) and according to the policy it also must be taxed as so. I use the rf111a form to declare my occupation & why I need it, and I use my pps number as I do not have a VAT/herd/flock number.

Is that fraud? If it is, what else am I supposed to do? Pay private tax and risk being uninsured & use a private vehicle for commercial purposes?

No, I wouldn't say it's fraud in your case, as you actually use your 4wd for business purposes.
And I do agree that there's plenty of ridiculousness behind this system.

But in OP's case, where he is only using his van solely for private purposes (dog trailer + carrying rubbish) taxing it commercially would be a fraud IMO.


And coming back to those "goods only declarations". It looks like there's no grounds in law for motortax offices to require such thing when taxing commercially, because those declarations state that you will use vehicle only for business purposes.

The motor tax law, on the other hand, says only about "using vehicle for carrying goods for business purposes" but never says that must be only use of that vehicle.
So according to law, you should be allowed to tax your van as commercial if you use it for business purposes, and still be able to legally use it for private purposes from time to time.
On the other hand, motor tax offices out of nowhere require people to declare they won't use the vans for private purposes at all. This is mad part, as why would they require such thing if there's no law requiring it?

Also by their way of thinking, if you come with a 40 tonne truck to tax it, and say you want to tax it privately, as you use it on Sundays for family trips to the beach, they won't let you.
Strange, as all those trucks are in the same tax category as vans, and therefore should be treated the same, shouldn't they?
Obviously we know the reason why they won't allow that is because truck tax is over 4k and if someone taxed it privately it would be €1800. But funny how they set the rules to suit themselves best, without any ground in law for doing that.

TrailerBob

I was forced to tax an iveco box truck privately by Kildare CoCo a couple of years ago as I was using it for a non-profit organisation. Not vat registered and not a charity... They will tax small trucks that way if it suits.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TrailerBob wrote: »

I was forced to tax an iveco box truck privately by Kildare CoCo a couple of years ago as I was using it for a non-profit organisation. Not vat registered and not a charity... They will tax small trucks that way if it suits.

Interesting
Kildare is one of the easiest places to get commercial tax.
That was where I taxed my GMC pickup commercially. PPS number, garda declaration and away you go.

Cass

Bought my Jeep in 2007 (new). I only ever used my PPS number, declaration, signed by An Gardaí and renewed it every year. I worked in construction, but as an employee, not VAT registered. When they changed the requirements i was told by the lady at the window in the tax office that as the jeep was taxed commercially by me before i just continue to use the same format to renew. However she did say that if i were to buy another or new jeep i would have to abide by the new rules. VAT number, C2 tax clearance cert, etc.

Caliden

Fairly sure you can only get a VAT number once your turnover exceeds €75,000 (goods) or €37,500 (services)

unkel

Caliden wrote: »

Fairly sure you can only get a VAT number once your turnover exceeds €75,000 (goods) or €37,500 (services)

No, you can get a VAT number (and charge VAT) even if your turnover is zero or low. You must register for VAT and charge VAT if your turnover is above those figures.

You don't need a VAT number to own / run a business and you don't need a VAT number to tax your commercial vehicle commercially.