Driving without reasonable consideration question?

To Elland Back

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Spook_ie

To Elland Back wrote: »

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Good luck on that with 6 points

Daaryl wrote: »

I've 6 penalty points on my current insurance and i got insured nobother at all, It was through cover in a click and they were cheap enough!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94142964&postcount=2


Mind you given the number of threads and yes I have insured/no I can't get insurance, I was pulled for speeding, I got a summons for xyz, I think the OP is some Walter Mitty type

CiniO

endacl wrote: »

And how did you think speeding offences were processed before they had speed guns?

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.

No. They don't. You can argue it. Judge will agree with the guard

It's actually interesting if there's any other country in the world, where police officer can just say by looking that someone was speeding and this is sufficient evidence in court, without a reading from calibrated speed measuring device.

challengemaster

CiniO wrote: »

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.


It's actually interesting if there's any other country in the world, where police officer can just say by looking that someone was speeding and this is sufficient evidence in court, without a reading from calibrated speed measuring device.

The uncorroborated opinion of a single Garda can't be used as evidence of speeding but once it's corroborated it can. Corroboration can be provided by a device such as the speedometer of a Garda car or the opinion of another person.

The UK has essentially the same law.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm
Happens down under too https://netrider.net.au/threads/police-estimated-my-speed-no-radar.122200/
Ohio http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/police_officers_visual_estimat.html

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

Well I might be wrong, but speed limits outside built up areas (on national roads and motorways) were introduced around mid 60's to mid 70's in Europe.
Before that probably speed limits applicable were in the cities and only in certain ones.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

The uncorroborated opinion of a single Garda can't be used as evidence of speeding but once it's corroborated it can. Corroboration can be provided by a device such as the speedometer of a Garda car or the opinion of another person.

The UK has essentially the same law.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm
Happens down under too https://netrider.net.au/threads/police-estimated-my-speed-no-radar.122200/
Ohio http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/police_officers_visual_estimat.html

That's very interesting lecture, thanks for that.

And I see one dependency - as it said in UK article, speeding is "absolute offence" which I understand that it means that you are either speeding or not speeding, same as you might be running through red light or green light.
Something like material fact which can be witnessed by police.

On the Continent, as far as I know most countries use graduated speeding fines, so there speeding is not an "absolute offence". Because speeding by 10km/h is completely different offence to speeding by 60km/h.
Therefore in those countries only way to be prosecuted for speeding is to be measured with properly calibrated speed detection equipment.

endacl

To Elland Back wrote: »

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Just have. And a few others. A couple more years growing up on the bus and bicycle may be just the thing...

challengemaster

CiniO wrote: »

Well I might be wrong, but speed limits outside built up areas (on national roads and motorways) were introduced around mid 60's to mid 70's in Europe.
Before that probably speed limits applicable were in the cities and only in certain ones.

Try 1901

http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0521

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

Try 1901

http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0521

Well you managed to find first road speed limit ever

F.e. in UK:

The 30 mph speed limit in built-up areas was introduced in 1930 in response to high casualty levels.[9] The 70 mph limit on previously unrestricted roads was introduced in 1965 following a number of serious motorway accidents in fog earlier the same year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom

Most likely on the Continent it took even longer to introduce speed limits outside built up areas and on motorways.
Germans still didn't manage to introduce one on motorways, and god bless them for that

tossy

I don't normally comment on these threads,especially when the 'must have last word' heros get involved but OP if you have 6 points and drive a 'souped up' car, that's how the Gardai will describe it to the judge and are Male and 20 then you will be lucky to get 4 points in court.

You should have had a bit more cop on and took the 2 points offered initially.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Most likely on the Continent it took even longer to introduce speed limits outside built up areas and on motorways.
Germans still didn't manage to introduce one on motorways, and god bless them for that

There are plenty of speed limits on German Motorway.

Cheensbo

The Garda Fb & Twitter pages recently showcased an e36 being siezed for numerous defects including illegal tyres, no indicators fitted & no handbrake.. I'm sure "whoever owns that" has established themself as a large mobile target for the local fuzz. And repeated encounters with them & the odd appearance in front of the judge are to be expected unless the attitude to motoring is adjusted.

Judge is gonna hop off Ye lad, I wouldn't like to see ye lose the licence, hope this can be an eye opener for ye.

Pov06

Cheensbo wrote: »

The Garda Fb & Twitter pages recently showcased an e36 being siezed for numerous defects including illegal tyres, no indicators fitted & no handbrake.. I'm sure "whoever owns that" has established themself as a large mobile target for the local fuzz. And repeated encounters with them & the odd appearance in front of the judge are to be expected unless the attitude to motoring is adjusted.

Judge is gonna hop off Ye lad, I wouldn't like to see ye lose the licence, hope this can be an eye opener for ye.

There was a differential inspection showcasing a welded differential.

Cheensbo

Pov06 wrote: »

There was a differential inspection showcasing a welded differential.

Nope that was a different motor, not belonging to the op

Cabaal

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all.

Back on the 20th of april of last year, I was behind my friend who was driving his car as we were heading back into town the gaurds were stopped at the roundabout so as we got back onto the road to go back into town my friend took off and i'd say he reached about 50-60mph along the 30mph speed limit, I accelerated a tiny bit to build my speed up, Now i wasn't speeding excessively it was just over 30mph speed limit, Nothing to serious i was going between 40-42mph, The gaurds didn't move off the roundabout for minute or two and then flew up behind me, Pulled both me and my friend in and the gaurd that was dealing with me said i was speeding but he didn't have a speed gun or a anpr in the vehicle they use i'm 99% they don't. I got the fine and didn't pay it as i felt as i done absolutely nothing wrong, Couldn't go fast because the car was low to the ground and the road wasn't the best along with speed ramps, and that's not a low cars best friend, And the water pump was knackered in the car causing it to over heat if you drove it fast! Did this happen to anybody else?

sigh,
you broke the law, you've just admitted it here. Pay up and move on

SteM

SteM wrote: »

You don't need proof, you know you were speeding. Why ask for proof of something you know to be fact? Just to be awkward like?

That's not the point to be fair. The burden of proof MUST be on the state otherwise you could get cops guessing that they were over the limit and never were.
Now this lad was over and knows it but there has to be a procedure to ensure impartial judgements

Henry Ford III

Meanwhile elsewhere on boards.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

corktina

but he wasn't booked for speeding was he! without reasonable consideration..it's in the title

Caliden

#whyalwaysdaryl


What did you friend do? Did he also get a fine?

corktina wrote: »

but he wasn't booked for speeding was he! without reasonable consideration..it's in the title

Which is easier prove in court than speeding. Garda will say it was his opinion the defendant accelerated aggressively to a speed which he deems to be in excess of the posted limit thus driving inconsiderately.

H3llR4iser

Frankly, all the "Police should be/should not be able to do X and Y" discussion will never really reach anywhere.

I do have a slightly different view points about this specific statements:

Daaryl wrote: »

...Couldn't go fast because the car was low to the ground...And the water pump was knackered in the car causing it to over heat if you drove it fast!...

I have two suggestions:

1. If you are constantly stopped by the Gardai, just drive something less conspicuous. If you go around in something that looks like the springs were taken out of it altogether, can't really complain they stop you all the time:D;

2. Save a bit on the mods and spend it on maintenance;

cml387

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Meanwhile elsewhere on boards.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

And elsewhere again

TheDoc

And I wonder why at 26 my premium has been rising year on year with no claims or incident ......

SteM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not the point to be fair. The burden of proof MUST be on the state otherwise you could get cops guessing that they were over the limit and never were.
Now this lad was over and knows it but there has to be a procedure to ensure impartial judgements

The proof that the guards need has been outlined already in this thread. Up to you whether you think it's enough or not.