Driving without reasonable consideration question?

Daaryl

Quick question is all.

Back on the 20th of april of last year, I was behind my friend who was driving his car as we were heading back into town the gaurds were stopped at the roundabout so as we got back onto the road to go back into town my friend took off and i'd say he reached about 50-60mph along the 30mph speed limit, I accelerated a tiny bit to build my speed up, Now i wasn't speeding excessively it was just over 30mph speed limit, Nothing to serious i was going between 40-42mph, The gaurds didn't move off the roundabout for minute or two and then flew up behind me, Pulled both me and my friend in and the gaurd that was dealing with me said i was speeding but he didn't have a speed gun or a anpr in the vehicle they use i'm 99% they don't. I got the fine and didn't pay it as i felt as i done absolutely nothing wrong, Couldn't go fast because the car was low to the ground and the road wasn't the best along with speed ramps, and that's not a low cars best friend, And the water pump was knackered in the car causing it to over heat if you drove it fast! Did this happen to anybody else?

MuppetCheck

You just said you were speeding - surely it would have been easier to pay the fine and be done with it?

It's his word against yours now. I'd have a word with a solicitor.

Daaryl

MuppetCheck wrote: »

You just said you were speeding - surely it would have been easier to pay the fine and be done with it?

It's his word against yours now. I'd have a word with a solicitor.

Yeah i agree i was speeding, But the way the gaurd was acting it was like i was doin 100mph through the town!

passatman86

Daaryl daaryl daaryl
I only said to you last month - take it handy
The garda pull you 24/7... stop given them an excuse to ..
I really hope you sort it out, if your so into cars just cruise 10 miles an hour so everybody see's you , no will smith pun intended

endacl

Daaryl wrote: »

Yeah i agree i was speeding

Case closed then.

:rolleyes:

Daaryl

endacl wrote: »

Case closed then.

:rolleyes:

Yeah i know right, But if you get stopped for speeding by the gaurd, Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

SteM

Daaryl wrote: »

Yeah i know right, But if you get stopped for speeding by the gaurd, Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

You don't need proof, you know you were speeding. Why ask for proof of something you know to be fact? Just to be awkward like?

Kristopherus

Daaryl wrote: »

Yeah i know right, But if you get stopped for speeding by the gaurd, Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

Well, you'll now have a day in court and its very likely the judge will believe the Garda. You can argue the toss with the Judge and see how it goes.

passatman86

Daaryl I think we should organize a car meet or something in your name .. we could get older car enthusiasts and even invite the garda for coffee/tea and car chats , might open uour eyes and calm you down. I hope it works out for ya pal

endacl

Daaryl wrote: »

Yeah i know right, But if you get stopped for speeding by the gaurd, Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

And how did you think speeding offences were processed before they had speed guns? No. They don't. You can argue it. Judge will agree with the guard, who it would be (probably rightly) assumed would have better things to be doing than annoying a young fella in a fartcan. Who admitted they were speeding.

Unless you can demonstrate your entitlement to an exemption under the It's not like I was doing a ton it was only a bit over the limit Act 2001, you're guilty.

SteM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Well, you'll now have a day in court and its very likely the judge will believe the Garda. You can argue the toss with the Judge and see how it goes.

Yeah, print out your OP and read it in court. That should sort everything out.

challengemaster

Daaryl wrote: »

Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

No. They don't even need proof. They only need to form the opinion that you're speeding, that's enough.

Daaryl

challengemaster wrote: »

No. They don't even need proof. They only need to form the opinion that you're speeding, that's enough.

If that's the case, They could do anybody!

JaMarcusHustle

Daaryl wrote: »

If that's the case, They could do anybody!

Anybody who's speeding, yes you're right. Progress Daaryl, progress!

corktina

sounds like you've been charged with Driving without reasonable consideration...is that right? Then you say you got a fine...was that in Court or just a speeding fine? your story isn't clear (and quoting mph doesn't help either...was it in NI? )

you didn't pay it because you felt you had done nothing wrong and yet you admit you were nearly 50% over the speed limit?

Henry Ford III

Daaryl wrote: »

If that's the case, They could do anybody!

Yep. I wonder have you cheesed them off a bit from previous reports/encounters, and got a bad reputation?

Daaryl

corktina wrote: »

sounds like you've been charged with Driving without reasonable consideration...is that right? Then you say you got a fine...was that in Court or just a speeding fine? your story isn't clear (and quoting mph doesn't help either...was it in NI? )

Yea driving without reasonable consideration section 51a of the road traffic acting 1961! And it wasn't in the north!

chocksaway

40 mph is about 65 kph. You're well over the 50 kph limit

corktina

Daaryl wrote: »

Yea driving without reasonable consideration section 51a of the road traffic acting 1961! And it wasn't in the north!

were you in Court? If you were and haven't paid your fine, you are asking for trouble.

Daaryl

corktina wrote: »

were you in Court? If you were and haven't paid your fine, you are asking for trouble.

No wasn't in court, Only got the summons for court today.

endacl

Daaryl wrote: »

No wasn't in court, Only got the summons for court today.

Your opening post? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase offer that as a statement to the judge! And let us know how it goes!

RustyNut

Daaryl wrote: »

Yeah i know right, But if you get stopped for speeding by the gaurd, Do they not have to show you proof?!?!?!

When you were talking to the Guard did you explain to him that you were only 10 or 15 K's over the limit and not doing the tonne or anything ?

Daaryl

endacl wrote: »

Your opening post? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase offer that as a statement to the judge! And let us know how it goes!

Just for you :rolleyes:

ScottStorm

Is this the same incident as the last time you posted about being pulled for speeding after the roundabout?

Pov06

ScottStorm wrote: »

Is this the same incident as the last time you posted about being pulled for speeding after the roundabout?

Shuure he wouldn't know himself being an innocent man who gets caught every second day.

Seriously though - you have to be speeding a lot to get pulled over. No guard is going to bother if you were a tiny bit over the limit. If you take the pi$$ then you can expect it.

Spook_ie

You've been charged with driving without consideration NOT speeding, this is probably because you and yer mate were racing or at least gave the Gards the opinion that you were racing,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0028/sec0004.html

2 points if you go for the FPN or 4 if you go to court to plead

Pov06

Spook_ie wrote: »

4 if you go to court to plead

Let it be, after all these threads he might be finally put off the road :rolleyes:

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

You've been charged with driving without consideration NOT speeding, this is probably because you and yer mate were racing or at least gave the Gards the opinion that you were racing,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0028/sec0004.html

2 points if you go for the FPN or 4 if you go to court to plead

it's a summons not a FPN.... I don't know what he was on about saying he hasn't paid the fine, this whole thread makes no sense.

Spook_ie

Don't think it's a summons going on the time frame from this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93682897

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all

I was heading out of town and met the gaurds on the roundabout and came back on the way i went to the roundabout to go back into town, I looked behind me and the gaurds were sitting at the roundabout anyway next minute they flew up behind and pulled me in.. And then asked to see my license, insurance etc etc, Checked everything on the car and it's not a car that would stand out it was a 1.9 tdi bora.. So anyway he was like what's with the driving so fast, Told him i wasn't going fast at all.. And he was claiming i was driving way over the speed limit.. So anyway he didn't say anything about giving me points when he stopped me and left me on me way, Now the next day i get a phone call and it was the gaurd saying i'm getting 2 points cause he was after looking at my driving record (i was a little bollox when i first started off driving :pac: ) So i didn't pay the fine cause i didn't do anything wrong.. Am i right in saying they don't have speed cameras in the small transits? Or am i wrong?

Unless the first thread was about an FPN

corktina

see his post 20. He says it's a summons for Court. It's either a summons for careless driving or a summons for non-payment of the FPN. HArd to say which,

Spook_ie

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all.

Back on the 20th of april of last year, I was behind my friend who was driving his car as we were heading back into town the gaurds were stopped at the roundabout so as we got back onto the road to go back into town my friend took off and i'd say he reached about 50-60mph along the 30mph speed limit, <snipped>?

corktina wrote: »

see his post 20. He says it's a summons for Court. It's either a summons for careless driving or a summons for non-payment of the FPN. HArd to say which,

Just spotted the date in the 2nd OP, looks like he didn't pay the FPN in January and is now in **** street with a possible 4 points from court, did spot he mentioned 8 points on his license in a thread somewhere so probable disqualification if found guilty
correction 6 points, that'd make him 10 if there's nothing else waiting

Wonder if it was this roundabout

To Elland Back

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Spook_ie

To Elland Back wrote: »

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Good luck on that with 6 points

Daaryl wrote: »

I've 6 penalty points on my current insurance and i got insured nobother at all, It was through cover in a click and they were cheap enough!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94142964&postcount=2


Mind you given the number of threads and yes I have insured/no I can't get insurance, I was pulled for speeding, I got a summons for xyz, I think the OP is some Walter Mitty type

CiniO

endacl wrote: »

And how did you think speeding offences were processed before they had speed guns?

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.

No. They don't. You can argue it. Judge will agree with the guard

It's actually interesting if there's any other country in the world, where police officer can just say by looking that someone was speeding and this is sufficient evidence in court, without a reading from calibrated speed measuring device.

challengemaster

CiniO wrote: »

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Before they had speed guns, there were no speed limits.


It's actually interesting if there's any other country in the world, where police officer can just say by looking that someone was speeding and this is sufficient evidence in court, without a reading from calibrated speed measuring device.

The uncorroborated opinion of a single Garda can't be used as evidence of speeding but once it's corroborated it can. Corroboration can be provided by a device such as the speedometer of a Garda car or the opinion of another person.

The UK has essentially the same law.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm
Happens down under too https://netrider.net.au/threads/police-estimated-my-speed-no-radar.122200/
Ohio http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/police_officers_visual_estimat.html

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

Well I might be wrong, but speed limits outside built up areas (on national roads and motorways) were introduced around mid 60's to mid 70's in Europe.
Before that probably speed limits applicable were in the cities and only in certain ones.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

The uncorroborated opinion of a single Garda can't be used as evidence of speeding but once it's corroborated it can. Corroboration can be provided by a device such as the speedometer of a Garda car or the opinion of another person.

The UK has essentially the same law.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Basics.htm
Happens down under too https://netrider.net.au/threads/police-estimated-my-speed-no-radar.122200/
Ohio http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/police_officers_visual_estimat.html

That's very interesting lecture, thanks for that.

And I see one dependency - as it said in UK article, speeding is "absolute offence" which I understand that it means that you are either speeding or not speeding, same as you might be running through red light or green light.
Something like material fact which can be witnessed by police.

On the Continent, as far as I know most countries use graduated speeding fines, so there speeding is not an "absolute offence". Because speeding by 10km/h is completely different offence to speeding by 60km/h.
Therefore in those countries only way to be prosecuted for speeding is to be measured with properly calibrated speed detection equipment.

endacl

To Elland Back wrote: »

I take it you've all seen the OP's thread here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

Just have. And a few others. A couple more years growing up on the bus and bicycle may be just the thing...

challengemaster

CiniO wrote: »

Well I might be wrong, but speed limits outside built up areas (on national roads and motorways) were introduced around mid 60's to mid 70's in Europe.
Before that probably speed limits applicable were in the cities and only in certain ones.

Try 1901

http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0521

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

Try 1901

http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0521

Well you managed to find first road speed limit ever

F.e. in UK:

The 30 mph speed limit in built-up areas was introduced in 1930 in response to high casualty levels.[9] The 70 mph limit on previously unrestricted roads was introduced in 1965 following a number of serious motorway accidents in fog earlier the same year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom

Most likely on the Continent it took even longer to introduce speed limits outside built up areas and on motorways.
Germans still didn't manage to introduce one on motorways, and god bless them for that

tossy

I don't normally comment on these threads,especially when the 'must have last word' heros get involved but OP if you have 6 points and drive a 'souped up' car, that's how the Gardai will describe it to the judge and are Male and 20 then you will be lucky to get 4 points in court.

You should have had a bit more cop on and took the 2 points offered initially.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Most likely on the Continent it took even longer to introduce speed limits outside built up areas and on motorways.
Germans still didn't manage to introduce one on motorways, and god bless them for that

There are plenty of speed limits on German Motorway.

Cheensbo

The Garda Fb & Twitter pages recently showcased an e36 being siezed for numerous defects including illegal tyres, no indicators fitted & no handbrake.. I'm sure "whoever owns that" has established themself as a large mobile target for the local fuzz. And repeated encounters with them & the odd appearance in front of the judge are to be expected unless the attitude to motoring is adjusted.

Judge is gonna hop off Ye lad, I wouldn't like to see ye lose the licence, hope this can be an eye opener for ye.

Pov06

Cheensbo wrote: »

The Garda Fb & Twitter pages recently showcased an e36 being siezed for numerous defects including illegal tyres, no indicators fitted & no handbrake.. I'm sure "whoever owns that" has established themself as a large mobile target for the local fuzz. And repeated encounters with them & the odd appearance in front of the judge are to be expected unless the attitude to motoring is adjusted.

Judge is gonna hop off Ye lad, I wouldn't like to see ye lose the licence, hope this can be an eye opener for ye.

There was a differential inspection showcasing a welded differential.

Cheensbo

Pov06 wrote: »

There was a differential inspection showcasing a welded differential.

Nope that was a different motor, not belonging to the op

Cabaal

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all.

Back on the 20th of april of last year, I was behind my friend who was driving his car as we were heading back into town the gaurds were stopped at the roundabout so as we got back onto the road to go back into town my friend took off and i'd say he reached about 50-60mph along the 30mph speed limit, I accelerated a tiny bit to build my speed up, Now i wasn't speeding excessively it was just over 30mph speed limit, Nothing to serious i was going between 40-42mph, The gaurds didn't move off the roundabout for minute or two and then flew up behind me, Pulled both me and my friend in and the gaurd that was dealing with me said i was speeding but he didn't have a speed gun or a anpr in the vehicle they use i'm 99% they don't. I got the fine and didn't pay it as i felt as i done absolutely nothing wrong, Couldn't go fast because the car was low to the ground and the road wasn't the best along with speed ramps, and that's not a low cars best friend, And the water pump was knackered in the car causing it to over heat if you drove it fast! Did this happen to anybody else?

sigh,
you broke the law, you've just admitted it here. Pay up and move on

SteM

SteM wrote: »

You don't need proof, you know you were speeding. Why ask for proof of something you know to be fact? Just to be awkward like?

That's not the point to be fair. The burden of proof MUST be on the state otherwise you could get cops guessing that they were over the limit and never were.
Now this lad was over and knows it but there has to be a procedure to ensure impartial judgements

Henry Ford III

Meanwhile elsewhere on boards.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057377807

corktina

but he wasn't booked for speeding was he! without reasonable consideration..it's in the title

Caliden

#whyalwaysdaryl


What did you friend do? Did he also get a fine?

corktina wrote: »

but he wasn't booked for speeding was he! without reasonable consideration..it's in the title

Which is easier prove in court than speeding. Garda will say it was his opinion the defendant accelerated aggressively to a speed which he deems to be in excess of the posted limit thus driving inconsiderately.