Over Zealous Infraction.

Losty Dublin

On Sunday I got a harsh red infraction on this thread for this post.

I sent this to two of the 3 mods this e mail. As of now I have received no reply which leads me to appeal here.

Given the way that this thread has now been 24 pages of circular posts and is showing no sign of abating, this infraction is unfair and unjust. A small amount of members are debating the toss with scant regard for fact, rationale or a sense of respect to the opposite side. It was as much a call to the other posters to cop on as a call to put the issue to bed as a gentle request for some attention to be drawn to the thread and led away from the nasty stalemate that it has become.

For these reasons, I content that my infraction here is unfair, unjust and unwarranted and that that it should be rescinded.

I contend that this infraction is completely unwarranted, unnecessary and OTT. The post involved is not aimed at anybody specifically nor is it derogatory, inflaming, rude, personal, inaccurate or in any way inciting. While back seat moderating isn't allowed on here the post did qualify itself upon opening, it was made with the best intentions and in the clear interest that the thread became any more of a car crash than it is. As of now, the thread has made page 35, again of the same few posts, posters and opinions and yet it shows no sign of abating.

I request that the infraction is rescinded altogether or at the very least downgraded to a more apt level for the minor rule breach that it is.

Tokyo

Hi Losty Dublin,

As you haven't received a reply from the forum moderators let, I'll look into this for you. Please allow some time for them to respond though - as always, real life obligations often take precedence over time spent here on the forums, and they may not have had the chance to reply to your PM yet.

Regards,
Mike

Tokyo

Hi Losty Dublin,

Regarding your request that the infraction be rescinded altogether, I'm afraid that the answer to this is no. If you had concerns about the direction in which the thread was going, the correct course of action would have been to report the post and let the moderators deal with it, and you have been around these forums long enough to know that. Instead your chosen course of action was to engage in backseat moderation within the thread, something that you were clearly aware was against the forum charter as evidenced by your opening statement within your post - "At the risk of being accused of back seat moderation here..." - and as such, actioning your post was fair, just, and warranted, and I fully support the moderators decision to take action on this basis.

Regarding your follow-up request to have your card commuted to a lesser one - that is more reasonable, and one I am more willing to entertain. Looking at your overall history in the Commuting & Transport forum, there's no arguing that you have a less than enviable infraction history there. That being said however, it does seem that you have been making distinct efforts to post within the guidelines of the charter for the past year and haven't picked up any other infractions, and that is to be commended. With that in mind, I have spoken to the forum moderators, including the moderator who issued the infraction, and we agree that the red card (infraction) should be commuted to a yellow card (warning). Please see this for what it is - recognition of your efforts to be a constructive poster in C&T, and an opportunity to continue to do so in future.

To be clear though, your post was a blatant and knowing disregard of the charter, and I would urge you to reconsider your opinion that it was a "minor rule breach", lest we find ourselves back here again. Backseat moderation serves no purpose other than to disrupt the flow of conversation within a thread and steer threads off-topic, and ultimately generates more work for the moderator team, and continued backseat moderation on your part will result in a forum ban.

If you agree with the assessment of the situtation above, I can move on with commuting your card to a yellow, and closing off this DRP. If not, and you still wish to challenge this, then we can escalate it to the Admin team if you wish.

Regards,

~Mike

Losty Dublin

mike_ie wrote: »

Hi Losty Dublin,

Regarding your request that the infraction be rescinded altogether, I'm afraid that the answer to this is no. If you had concerns about the direction in which the thread was going, the correct course of action would have been to report the post and let the moderators deal with it, and you have been around these forums long enough to know that. Instead your chosen course of action was to engage in backseat moderation within the thread, something that you were clearly aware was against the forum charter as evidenced by your opening statement within your post - "At the risk of being accused of back seat moderation here..." - and as such, actioning your post was fair, just, and warranted, and I fully support the moderators decision to take action on this basis.

You'd assume that that is an option; however there is no actual facility to report when threads go haywire other than report single posts and make general comments or to PM a moderator and raise it there, and risk an infraction that way (And the moderator in question has threatened to do this to me before via PM.). One for the feedback forum?

mike_ie wrote: »

Regarding your follow-up request to have your card commuted to a lesser one - that is more reasonable, and one I am more willing to entertain. Looking at your overall history in the Commuting & Transport forum, there's no arguing that you have a less than enviable infraction history there. That being said however, it does seem that you have been making distinct efforts to post within the guidelines of the charter for the past year and haven't picked up any other infractions, and that is to be commended. With that in mind, I have spoken to the forum moderators, including the moderator who issued the infraction, and we agree that the red card (infraction) should be commuted to a yellow card (warning). Please see this for what it is - regognition of your efforts to be a constructive poster in C&T, and an opportunity to continue to do so in future.

To be clear though, your post was a blatant and knowing disregard of the charter, and I would urge you to reconsider your opinion that it was a "minor rule breach", lest we find ourselves back here again. Backseat moderation serves no purpose other than to disrupt the flow of conversation within a thread and steer threads off-topic, and ultimately generates more work for the moderator team, and continued backseat moderation on your part will result in a forum ban.

If you agree with the assessment of the situtation above, I can move on with commuting your card to a yellow, and closing off this DRP. If not, and you still wish to challenge this, then we can escalate it to the Admin team if you wish.

Regards,

~Mike

To be honest I would rather have seen it dropped entirely altogether for my stated reasons. However, in the interests of saving us both time then I may be willing to leave the matter rest here.

Tokyo

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You'd assume that that is an option; however there is no actual facility to report when threads go haywire other than report single posts and make general comments or to PM a moderator and raise it there, and risk an infraction that way (And the moderator in question has threatened to do this to me before via PM.). One for the feedback forum?

If you wish to raise the issue of reporting whole threads in the feedback from, you are welcome to. However reporting a single post in the thread and specifying in the comments that your concerns extend to the whole thread will more than suffice in bringing the issue to moderator attention, and the reported post is visible to all of the forum moderators who can decide if your concerns are warranted or not. And I suspect that you will get the same answer in feedback.

To be honest I would rather have seen it dropped entirely altogether for my stated reasons. However, in the interests of saving us both time then I may be willing to leave the matter rest here.

Unfortunately my stated reasons for not dropping it entirely still stand - you were in the wrong for posting as you did. Seeing as you don't wish to take this any further, I'll take the necessary steps to reduce your red card to a yellow (please allow some time for these changes to take effect), and we can consider this matter resolved.