springer (when to give up )

noeleire

Hi all the thing is i have a 8 month old springer bitch that is not showing much drive when hunting i know she is still young when out after rabbit scent some times she would have her nose down other times just has no intrested what so ever she never rushes around just takes her time . The thing is do i give up and call it a day or keep trying hoping she will come good for next season..

hathcock

noeleire wrote: »

Hi all the thing is i have a 8 month old springer bitch that is not showing much drive when hunting i know she is still young when out after rabbit scent some times she would have her nose down other times just has no intrested what so ever she never rushes around just takes her time . The thing is do i give up and call it a day or keep trying hoping she will come good for next season..

At eight months a dog that won't hunt rabbits won't hunt anything else either,she should be showing maximum interest especially on rabbit scent.If she is as you describe,get shut of her soon and replace her with another dog,and not from the same breeder.

snipe49

noeleire wrote: »

Hi all the thing is i have a 8 month old springer bitch that is not showing much drive when hunting i know she is still young when out after rabbit scent some times she would have her nose down other times just has no intrested what so ever she never rushes around just takes her time . The thing is do i give up and call it a day or keep trying hoping she will come good for next season..

Has she seen a rabbit bolt in to cover if so what would she do if very little then like
Hathcock said time for a new dog in the run,

noeleire

snipe49 wrote: »

Has she seen a rabbit bolt in to cover if so what would she do if very little then like
Hathcock said time for a new dog in the run,

Yea she seen a rabbit bolt she took of after it not in a mad hurry though got to the bush were it went in stoped and came back..

snipe49

noeleire wrote: »

Yea she seen a rabbit bolt she took of after it not in a mad hurry though got to the bush were it went in stoped and came back..

Time for a new one, It should have gone it after it straight away. Just make sure if your getting a new pup u see both parents working well. If u need any advice just ask on here we all have been there .

grassroot1

I am finding it hard to get a springer with prey drive and interest, so much so I wont buy a springer again:mad:

snipe49

grassroot1 wrote: »

I am finding it hard to get a springer with prey drive and interest, so much so I wont buy a springer again:mad:

There are a few out there don't give up hard to beat a springer. What part of the country have u been looking in.

lakesider

Some really bad advice being given on this forum regarding springers..if the lads that are saying your dog is beyond hope take a look at their own dogs pedigree they will probably find a dog called Hales smutt in their dogs lineage..that dog which is a cornerstone of the modern English Springer Spaniel neve showed itself as a hunter till 3 years old!!..the OPs dog is still a pup and the so called dog experts on here have shot it down..enuff said!!!!

snipe49

lakesider wrote: »

Some really bad advice being given on this forum regarding springers..if the lads that are saying your dog is beyond hope take a look at their own dogs pedigree they will probably find a dog called Hales smutt in their dogs lineage..that dog which is a cornerstone of the modern English Springer Spaniel neve showed itself as a hunter till 3 years old!!..the OPs dog is still a pup and the so called dog experts on here have shot it down..enuff said!!!!

So you'r are saying he should hold on the her in the hope that in 3 years she will come good, Why i said to this lad he should get a new dog is that he knows nothing about it's breeding never saw it parents working so for me i feel he should get a pup from proven workers he can always keep the pup in question and see will it come good but this lad has on dog for next year if it doesn't.

hathcock

lakesider wrote: »

Some really bad advice being given on this forum regarding springers..if the lads that are saying your dog is beyond hope take a look at their own dogs pedigree they will probably find a dog called Hales smutt in their dogs lineage..that dog which is a cornerstone of the modern English Springer Spaniel neve showed itself as a hunter till 3 years old!!..the OPs dog is still a pup and the so called dog experts on here have shot it down..enuff said!!!!

If the op is willing to wait around for three years in the vain hope that his dog will suddenly decide to hunt,well fair wind to his sails,he would have to be blessed with serious patience,not to mention the three lost seasons while waiting for this miracle to occur.Heres hoping you are not serious in this suggestion.QUESTION;would you wait three years to see if a dog would hunt?

dodderangler

I gave up my dog last year an it broke me heart. Yes she hunted but even if she didn't hunt it would've still broke me heart getting rid of her.
Don't know how anyone can just get rid f a dog just cuz it doesn't hunt.
Noel she just needs more time man.
Sent ya a text anyway so if your free this weekend we'll bring her up to rabbit land. And she's bound to get scent and the hundreds that are up there

Tikka391

I had same problem with one of my dogs at 8 months old she had stopped picking up dummies for no reason, she also was showing no much interest in hunting. When I bought her I also got a litter sister too she at same age was bursting in every way ( still is ) so I keep going for a few months with other bitch with no improvement. One day after a poor training session I said that's it, We're off to local dog pound to surrendered her. Next two days it was all I could think about, I gave up on her too soon.
I went back and got her back ( looked a bit silly) it cost a few quid she had wormed and vaccinated her( although already done) and chipped her.
Out one day for a walk a pigeon flew past I shot it she went straight out and picked it and straight back to me like a prow.
To make a long story shorter she is nearly 5 now ant is without doubt the best dog I ever had. She out shines her sister who is very good.
Give the dog a bit of time, what will it cost a few bags of nuts. We're coming into the long evenings now give her till at least end of summer.
What's the rush.
People don't give dogs enough time to mentally mature and cop on to the job.

villa1979

8 months old the bitch is still a pup you have the whole summer to work on the pup warmer weather for retrieveing off water plenty of young rabbits out over the next couple of months if I were you take the pup away from game for a while concentrate on getting manners on the pup sitting,returning to the whistle when called retrieveing then gradually introduce the dog back on scents best trick of all is a clipped live raceing pigeon, make the pup sit steady and let the pigeon walk around in front of him but don't let the pup move make the pup want to go for the pigeon but for the first couple of times hold the pup make her stay sitting then let her go trust me she will chase the pigeon and if you have the retrieveing done before this stage like I said she should bring the bird right back to you don't be worrying about your pup not being interested in rabbits at 8 months old get the basic training done first best of luck

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

I gave up my dog last year an it broke me heart. Yes she hunted but even if she didn't hunt it would've still broke me heart getting rid of her.
Don't know how anyone can just get rid f a dog just cuz it doesn't hunt.
Noel she just needs more time man.
Sent ya a text anyway so if your free this weekend we'll bring her up to rabbit land. And she's bound to get scent and the hundreds that are up there

According to the op the dog already met rabbit scent and showed no interest,whether he gets rid of her is somewhat of a moot point,he said he wanted a dog that will hunt,this one obviously won't.

dodderangler

hathcock wrote: »

According to the op the dog already met rabbit scent and showed no interest,whether he gets rid of her is somewhat of a moot point,he said he wanted a dog that will hunt,this one obviously won't.

Pups 8 months old man. Give the dog a chance.

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

Pups 8 months old man. Give the dog a chance.

Read the ops original post,THE DOG HAS NO INTEREST, he couldn't have made it any clearer, what is so hard to understand about that.If a dog shows no interest at eight months it's not worthy of any further consideration as a gundog imho.Give it away as a pet,keep it as a pet,donate it to science,but if you want a gundog,don't waste any more valuable time on it, move it on and get a replacement.

springer man

Couldn't agree more. give the pup a chance over the next few months and summer he will come on. rabbits rabbits and more rabbits while drive him on. you can put the breaks on him then

hathcock

springer man wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. give the pup a chance over the next few months and summer he will come on. rabbits rabbits and more rabbits while drive him on. you can put the breaks on him then

Pup already met rabbits, HAS NO INTEREST.read what the op said in his original post.

dodderangler

hathcock wrote: »

Pup already met rabbits, HAS NO INTEREST.read what the op said in his original post.

And if you read his other posts he says She met A rabbit. 1 rabbit.
Meeting a rabbit and smelling others isn't enough.

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

And if you read his other posts he says She met A rabbit. 1 rabbit.
Meeting a rabbit and smelling others isn't enough.

this is what the op said[ Yea she seen a rabbit bolt she took of after it not in a mad hurry though got to the bush were it went in stoped and came back..]

A dog that won't follow a rabbit into cover is less than useless,but then maybe you would be happy with her.....some are more discerning.

staghunter

hathcock wrote: »

Read the ops original post,THE DOG HAS NO INTEREST, he couldn't have made it any clearer, what is so hard to understand about that.If a dog shows no interest at eight months it's not worthy of any further consideration as a gundog imho.Give it away as a pet,keep it as a pet,donate it to science,but if you want a gundog,don't waste any more valuable time on it, move it on and get a replacement.

8 months is to young to just get rid of her just because she has no interest now doesn't mean she won't in another month as some of the lads said your coming into summer now so give her plenty of time on rabbits. I was out with a few lads one day working some young springers and there was a trailling man with us aswell he had a young bitch with him that day around seven to eight months and she was useless I mean red rotten and she had top class breeding he was practically ready to shoot her with temper,but one of the lads said he,d take her and see how he'd get on.within two months i couldn't believe it was same dog.he eventually moved the bitch on for two grand.some lads are to quick to make up there mind.every dog is different.

hathcock

staghunter wrote: »

8 months is to young to just get rid of her just because she has no interest now doesn't mean she won't in another month as some of the lads said your coming into summer now so give her plenty of time on rabbits. I was out with a few lads one day working some young springers and there was a trailling man with us aswell he had a young bitch with him that day around seven to eight months and she was useless I mean red rotten and she had top class breeding he was practically ready to shoot her with temper,but one of the lads said he,d take her and see how he'd get on.within two months i couldn't believe it was same dog.he eventually moved the bitch on for two grand.some lads are to quick to make up there mind.every dog is different.

Offer the op a grand for his dog and you'll make another grand in two months if you are right,I'm sure he'd be happy to deal.

dodderangler

So basically if you get a dog and it doesn't show much interest in first few months it's off to the pound or donated to science? Or worse gets the bullet.
Excuse the language but That's pretty fcukin low man. It's a dog not something to be just gotten rid of when your bored.
It's not even a dog yet. Still a puppy. Not even a year old. Give the dog a chance. Some dogs can take months. Springers pointers and from what I've gathered on this setters can take a good while before work starts to show

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

So basically if you get a dog and it doesn't show much interest in first few months it's off to the pound or donated to science? Or worse gets the bullet.
Excuse the language but That's pretty fcukin low man. It's a dog not something to be just gotten rid of when your bored.
It's not even a dog yet. Still a puppy. Not even a year old. Give the dog a chance. Some dogs can take months. Springers pointers and from what I've gathered on this setters can take a good while before work starts to show

A springer pup at eight months is an immature dog,nonetheless a dog that walks around the place and refuses to follow a rabbit is as useful as a chocolate fireguard,the op wants a gundog not something resembling a king charles.By the way your bad language is not excused,

snipe49

dodderangler wrote: »

So basically if you get a dog and it doesn't show much interest in first few months it's off to the pound or donated to science? Or worse gets the bullet.
Excuse the language but That's pretty fcukin low man. It's a dog not something to be just gotten rid of when your bored.
It's not even a dog yet. Still a puppy. Not even a year old. Give the dog a chance. Some dogs can take months. Springers pointers and from what I've gathered on this setters can take a good while before work starts to show

No one on here is saying that any harm need t come this pup ! i'm sure she a lovely little thing if i have a pup that i feel will not make it as a working dog then i will re home it with someone that will give it a great home is that not better then having her in a pen . ?

snipe49

staghunter wrote: »

8 months is to young to just get rid of her just because she has no interest now doesn't mean she won't in another month as some of the lads said your coming into summer now so give her plenty of time on rabbits. I was out with a few lads one day working some young springers and there was a trailling man with us aswell he had a young bitch with him that day around seven to eight months and she was useless I mean red rotten and she had top class breeding he was practically ready to shoot her with temper,but one of the lads said he,d take her and see how he'd get on.within two months i couldn't believe it was same dog.he eventually moved the bitch on for two grand.some lads are to quick to make up there mind.every dog is different.

The problem is op know nothing about the parents they may be just arm chairs dogs so the pup may then be no good for hunting.

dodderangler

snipe49 wrote: »

No one on here is saying that any harm need t come this pup ! i'm sure she a lovely little thing if i have a pup that i feel will not make it as a working dog then i will re home it with someone that will give it a great home is that not better then having her in a pen . ?

Dog doesn't have to sit in a pen. Could be a house dog.
Just think it's so wrong for a pup to come home to it's new owners, bond to it's owners and be constantly happy to see them. And then get rid of it. ( I know I sound like a bleeding girl here).
Just I got rid of one dog before and il never do it again. Hunter or not it's just not right.
I think the pup just needs to be taken out to areas that are riddled with rabbits like some land I have.
And needs to be taken to areas like that frequently.
Season doesn't start for months so gives a person a while to get the dog going.

patton69

spoke to a buddy of mine very knowledgeable when it comes to spaniels hes done it all trust me hes just started helping me with my own young dog he said give that dog a few more chases even better if the dog catches or nearly catches a rabbit give it time and patience they dont all hunt at 6 months and his best bitch wasnt even smelling the ground at 8 months and youd give your leg for her give her time.

patience and repitition it works every time i think is what hathcock said to me on another springer thread maybe he should be taking his own advice

hathcock

patton69 wrote: »

spoke to a buddy of mine very knowledgeable when it comes to spaniels hes done it all trust me hes just started helping me with my own young dog he said give that dog a few more chases even better if the dog catches or nearly catches a rabbit give it time and patience they dont all hunt at 6 months and his best bitch wasnt even smelling the ground at 8 months and youd give your leg for her give her time.

patience and repitition it works every time i think is what hathcock said to me on another springer thread maybe he should be taking his own advice

Give the dog a few more chases,the op said that the dog won't chase,and my advice is sound in the case of a dog with promise and potential,btw were you that guy that didn't have a clue about gundogs?

patton69

ya thats me i actually havent a clue i know i know nothing but ive a friend whos spent his life hunting and trialing them id take his word as gospel on spaniels he said the dog chased but gave up when it entered cover so the dog will chase i think he also said he only gave it 1 chase ive owned lurchers before and theyd often need a good few chases before it switches on apologies if im speaking out of turn but i feel its productive to this topic

patton69

ya thats me i actually havent a clue i know i know nothing but ive a friend whos spent his life hunting and trialing them id take his word as gospel on spaniels.

the op said the dog chased but gave up when it entered cover so the dog will chase i think he also said he only gave it 1 chase ive owned lurchers before and theyd often need a good few chases before it switches on apologies if im speaking out of turn but i feel its productive to this topic

snipe49

patton69 wrote: »

spoke to a buddy of mine very knowledgeable when it comes to spaniels hes done it all trust me hes just started helping me with my own young dog he said give that dog a few more chases even better if the dog catches or nearly catches a rabbit give it time and patience they dont all hunt at 6 months and his best bitch wasnt even smelling the ground at 8 months and youd give your leg for her give her time.

patience and repitition it works every time i think is what hathcock said to me on another springer thread maybe he should be taking his own advice

This would be ok if he had a back up dog' then he wait and see.But it would be a shame if on the first day of next season he brought her out only to see her walk beside him.

dodderangler

snipe49 wrote: »

This would be ok if he had a back up dog' then he wait and see.But it would be a shame if on the first day of next season he brought her out only to see her walk beside him.

But season doesn't starts for months. So he has a good while to get the dog working. Longer evenings and plenty f rabbits about.

foxslayer

Your better off listening to your friend cos certain people on this think they no everything and they haven't a clue the muppet show springs to mind don't give up on the dog as was said already rabbit's rabbits and more rabbits best of look

patton69

crusty and bozo i showed my buddy some of their youtube videos and he fell off his chair laughing its people like me trying to learn taking their bad advice sure ya wouldnt know any better

snipe49

patton69 wrote: »

crusty and bozo i showed my buddy some of their youtube videos and he fell off his chair laughing its people like me trying to learn taking their bad advice sure ya wouldnt know any better

Sorry but would u be including me in that.

patton69

ya the hunting vid he reckons you shouldnt be talking to your dogs at all at least very very minimal and that there was no cover in under the trees and the big dog refused the bit of cover you tried to put him into he reckons the dog should be geting their head right down and getting right in under the cover and hitting it without having to be told all the time he said a good spaniel doesnt have to be put into cover they be heading to it themselves this was all news to me look im sorry i said anything now im sure your a nice guy and i never intended to insult anyone ill delete my posts if you request me to

snipe49

patton69 wrote: »

ya the hunting vid he reckons you shouldnt be talking to your dogs at all at least very very minimal and that there was no cover in under the trees and the big dog refused the bit of cover you tried to put him into he reckons the dog should be geting their head right down and getting right in under the cover and hitting it without having to be told all the time he said a good spaniel doesnt have to be put into cover they be heading to it themselves this was all news to me look im sorry i said anything now im sure your a nice guy and i never intended to insult anyone ill delete my posts if you request me to[/QUOTE
I've been shotting 35 years and would never run down any ones dog i never said that was heavy cover and my dogs are fine for me. If your pal want's to see my dogs in heavy cover i can do a vid of them. Where are his dogs on u tube so i can watch great dog then.

staghunter

hathcock wrote: »

Offer the op a grand for his dog and you'll make another grand in two months if you are right,I'm sure he'd be happy to deal.

Did I not say every dog is different.why would I offer him a grand for a dog that isn't working.that would be stupid like alot of the suggestions on this thread!.

hathcock

staghunter wrote: »

Did I not say every dog is different.why would I offer him a grand for a dog that isn't working.that would be stupid like alot of the suggestions on this thread!.

You're the one that saw a useless dog only fit for shooting turn into a super dog in two months,by that logic you could make yourself some handy money by taking useless dogs holding them for two months and selling them for two grand.

patton69

hathcock wrote: »

You're the one that saw a useless dog only fit for shooting turn into a super dog in two months,by that logic you could make yourself some handy money by taking useless dogs holding them for two months and selling them for two grand.

how come your selling an 18 month old bitch did you not realise until then she wasnt any good

staghunter

hathcock wrote: »

You're the one that saw a useless dog only fit for shooting turn into a super dog in two months,by that logic you could make yourself some handy money by taking useless dogs holding them for two months and selling them for two grand.

If you want to use that logic of with ya.why would anyone spend one thousand euro on a dog that isn't working.what I'm trying to say is that eight months is very early to make your mind up on a dog.I've seen dogs turned inside out with a new handler or a different approach to training them.I'm not saying it will work but at eight months it's worth a go.it's not like he needs the dog working in the next two weeks

hathcock

patton69 wrote: »

how come your selling an 18 month old bitch did you not realise until then she wasnt any good

By your own admission you don't know one end of a dog from the other,best to be quiet on matters you don't understand.By the way she is a good dog,check out the youtube vid woodcock hunt in ireland,it will educate you .

patton69

hathcock wrote: »

By your own admission you don't know one end of a dog from the other,best to be quiet on matters you don't understand.By the way she is a good dog,check out the youtube vid woodcock hunt in ireland,it will educate you .

not 1 end of a spaniel maybe .. ive hunted and trained other breeds i very much know 1 end of a dog from another and i know this much good dogs are easy sell , why are you selling her there must be some fault is it that she wont stay inside cover or has she hard mouth

which i suspect my own pup might have he has quite the grip.

snipe49 i am truely sorry for running down your dogs who the f am i to do that apologies

ESB Spaniel

Hathcock you must going through dogs like a hot knife through butter the way your talking.... I know lads that don't fire shots over pups till they 12 months or older.

dodderangler

hathcock wrote: »

By your own admission you don't know one end of a dog from the other,best to be quiet on matters you don't understand.By the way she is a good dog,check out the youtube vid woodcock hunt in ireland,it will educate you .

You selling that dog plus another dog that I assume was sold and then you got a 4 month old cocker?
If they're good why did you sell em

hathcock

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

Hathcock you must going through dogs like a hot knife through butter the way your talking.... I know lads that don't fire shots over pups till they 12 months or older.

A section from one of your posts............my first season with oddie she was only 6 months old and shot a fair bit of game with her. Flying now, will be doing the same with the young bitch i have now....

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

You selling that dog plus another dog that I assume was sold and then you got a 4 month old cocker?
If they're good why did you sell em

You are assuming that nobody sells a good dog,a very cynical view,as suggested earlier have a look at the video and you can see the bitch in action,then tell me your opinion.

dodderangler

hathcock wrote: »

You are assuming that nobody sells a good dog,a very cynical view,as suggested earlier have a look at the video and you can see the bitch in action,then tell me your opinion.

Dont need to see your video.
Why would anyone sell a good dog that works and hunts and has no faults??

staghunter

dodderangler wrote: »

Dont need to see your video.
Why would anyone sell a good dog that works and hunts and has no faults??

Infairness I no alot of lads that train dogs for sale.that's more or less all they do.

hathcock

dodderangler wrote: »

Dont need to see your video.
Why would anyone sell a good dog that works and hunts and has no faults??

To make money.......