Uninsured driver

CiniO

Alan_007_ wrote: »

I'm assuming the gardai weren't called to the scene?
If you do try to make a claim off the other driver's insurance, expect to be found out (not saying you won't be already) and bent over without any lube in court!

Well he should be...
Big fine and driving ban, etc... That's what he deserves.

But it still doesn't stop him from being entitled to being compensated from driver at fault for loss he suffered.

Alan_007_

CiniO wrote: »

Well he should be...
Big fine and driving ban, etc... That's what he deserves.

But it still doesn't stop him from being entitled to being compensated from driver at fault for loss he suffered.

I agree with you completely. But the wise thing to do would be to not claim and hope it goes away....how long would it take the other driver's insurer to find out that he's not insured, and then report him?

Bongalongherb

The OP has to prove it was the other drivers fault though, if what this person says is true.

It just boggles the mind that an uninsured driver and lets say with no NCT or Tax either hops in the car and they're involved in an accident and as such can still claim. It's insane. This little piggy-bank regarding all insurance companies should be shut-down and monitored as to lower the premiums of paying insurance folk.

No insurance company should have to pay out from an uninsured driver, let the justice system give a 6 month prison sentence or 1,000 hours community service and a fine of whatever the damage was. If it was the loss of a persons life that an uninsured driver took, then 20 years.

Lucky I'm not a judge so.

Bongalongherb

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, I think it's perfectly acceptable.
If OP suffered a loss because of someone else's fault, then he should be compensated.




Well that's completely different problem.
There's so many uninsured drivers on Irish roads, that it's quite a plague. The question should be - why is that?
Is rate of uninsured drivers the same high in other countries? And if not, what do we do wrong comparing to them?

IMO there's two major problems.
1. It's incredibly easy to be uninsured on the road in Ireland- IMO too easy.
2. There's very little enforcement.
3. Even if caught, or worse - cause accident - consequences usually aren't too severe.

You might be driving for years, without being checked and get away with driving without insurance. That's why people don't mind doing it. Consequences usually aren't severe. Someone who causes accident uninsured, should be pulled out of every penny to pay up for the loss - and that's not happening. I haven't really heard of cases of people's houses being auctioned for purpose of paying out for the claim after being uninsured. And this should be the cases.
And obviously the system where everyone can very easily drive uninsured is not well thought in the first place.

But all this has nothing really to do with OP being compensated for damage he suffered not out of his fault.

I understand your comment. But it's mad/crazy. It's a wonder why any-one bothers to pay for insurance and tax any-more when the system is non-functioning, and is only out to screw the paying idiot.

JIdontknow

If the Garda does follow up and realises you haven't shown it within 10 days then they can issue court summons, ( these may or may not have been issued, takes a while to get them) probably a few, one for driving mechanically propelled vehicle without a valid / current licence, one for not producing it within the allotted time and possibly a third I think not having it on you in person but I'm not sure.

All depends on the Garda, but it's been known to take a few months for these to be issued ( or you may get lucky and get away with them). These summons will be up on the Garda system even before they're posted out.

Oyva bigwan

Adrian2468 wrote: »

I was a uninsured driver in a accident totally the other drivers fault ( I know I should not have been on the road) but can I still claim? Any feed back welcome

If you weren't driving it wouldn't have happened, people like you are why my insurance is heading north

slimjimmc

I think for minor offences they have 6 months to apply to a court for a summons and another 6 months to serve it (which can be extended for eternity). No insurance may not be treated as a minor offence though.

You really should be talking to a solicitor.

Mellor

DraganGTD wrote: »

Absolutely not.
If you have got a full comprehensive insurance and you take for example your friends car to drive then you would be covered as a third party only.

You are covered with 3rd party insurance, but you are not the 3rd party.

3rd party means a 3rd party in a claim, where the insurance holder and the insurance company are the 1st and 2nd parties.
In the OP's case, he is the 3rd party in regards to the at fault driver's claim. Whether they pay out, is up to them really.

slimjimmc

Oyva bigwan wrote: »

If you weren't driving it wouldn't have happened, people like you are why my insurance is heading north

More like if the driver who caused the collision wasn't driving negligently then the collision wouldn't have happened. Insurance doesn't make you a safer driver, it just means you can pay up if you screw up. If anything you could argue that an uninsured driver is more likely to try avoid getting into a collision.

CiniO

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The OP has to prove it was the other drivers fault though, if what this person says is true.

It just boggles the mind that an uninsured driver and lets say with no NCT or Tax either hops in the car and they're involved in an accident and as such can still claim. It's insane. This little piggy-bank regarding all insurance companies should be shut-down and monitored as to lower the premiums of paying insurance folk.

No insurance company should have to pay out from an uninsured driver

That comes from the base of it.
It's not really insurance companies that volounteer to pay to their customers and other insurance companies customers only.
The system is if I cause a damage to you, I'll have to pay for that damage.
If I go near your house, and break your window, you will ask me to pay for this window.
Exactly the same on the road - if I through my negligence cause accident in which you will suffer a loss, I will be obliged to compensate for that loss.
And because causing a loss on the road by driving a car is likely, we are all obliged by law to have insurance to pay for this loss in case it happens.
But in the end, Insurance company is only paying to you on my behalf, as I caused damage to you, and I'd be due to pay it to you if I hadn't my insurance.

Fact that OP still can claim, is because he is at loss not out of his fault.

Think of it - another example.
It's illegal to be intoxicated in public.
Imagine I'm sitting on the bench on the pavement (completely wasted, but not doing anything wrong - just sitting)
You reverse your car, and go bit too far, and crush my foot.

I shouldn't be there by law.
Are you still going to say, that I'm not entitled to compensation from your insurer, because I shouldn't have been there in the first place?

, let the justice system give a 6 month prison sentence or 1,000 hours community service and a fine of whatever the damage was. If it was the loss of a persons life that an uninsured driver took, then 20 years.

Lucky I'm not a judge so.

I understand your comment. But it's mad/crazy. It's a wonder why any-one bothers to pay for insurance and tax any-more when the system is non-functioning, and is only out to screw the paying idiot.

Well, in Poland (where I'm originally from) every car owner is obliged to make sure that his car has a valid insurance policy covering anyone to drive it (open drive) at all times. It's all in the one database, and if you run out of your insurance and have even 1 day gap before purchasing another one, you will be very heavily fined (by post).
Believe me or not, but this system works perfect. There's very little problem with uninsured drivers there.
Why can't we introduce something like that in Ireland - I don't know.

Bongalongherb

Mellor wrote: »

You are covered with 3rd party insurance, but you are not the 3rd party.

3rd party means a 3rd party in a claim, where the insurance holder and the insurance company are the 1st and 2nd parties.
In the OP's case, he is the 3rd party in regards to the at fault driver's claim. Whether they pay out, is up to them really.

They will pay-out that's for sure. That is the whole problem and why they have their back-up piggy bank trusted funds. It pisses me off, but it is what it is. Thankfully OP you didn't kill any-one while driving uninsured. Sickens me this sh!t does.

No fcuking sympathy from me.

Mellor

Bongalongherb wrote: »

They will pay-out that's for sure. That is the whole problem and why they have their back-up piggy bank trusted funds. It pisses me off, but it is what it is. Thankfully OP you didn't kill any-one while driving uninsured. Sickens me this sh!t does.

No fcuking sympathy from me.

Devils advocate here, but lets say the other driver hit the OP in a head-on collision. Put him in hospital, intensive care, extensive rehab. (basically is the heart of why 3rd party is a minimum)
Do people who think the insurance shouldn't pay out in the OP, also think that they shouldn't pay out above?


FWIW, I think in the latter they clearly will, but in the OP they may not as they will often use anything to exist a policy.

Bongalongherb

CiniO wrote: »

That comes from the base of it.
It's not really insurance companies that volounteer to pay to their customers and other insurance companies customers only.
The system is if I cause a damage to you, I'll have to pay for that damage.
If I go near your house, and break your window, you will ask me to pay for this window.
Exactly the same on the road - if I through my negligence cause accident in which you will suffer a loss, I will be obliged to compensate for that loss.
And because causing a loss on the road by driving a car is likely, we are all obliged by law to have insurance to pay for this loss in case it happens.
But in the end, Insurance company is only paying to you on my behalf, as I caused damage to you, and I'd be due to pay it to you if I hadn't my insurance.

Fact that OP still can claim, is because he is at loss not out of his fault.

Think of it - another example.
It's illegal to be intoxicated in public.
Imagine I'm sitting on the bench on the pavement (completely wasted, but not doing anything wrong - just sitting)
You reverse your car, and go bit too far, and crush my foot.

I shouldn't be there by law.
Are you still going to say, that I'm not entitled to compensation from your insurer, because I shouldn't have been there in the first place?




Well, in Poland (where I'm originally from) every car owner is obliged to make sure that his car has a valid insurance policy covering anyone to drive it (open drive) at all times. It's all in the one database, and if you run out of your insurance and have even 1 day gap before purchasing another one, you will be very heavily fined (by post).
Believe me or not, but this system works perfect. There's very little problem with uninsured drivers there.
Why can't we introduce something like that in Ireland - I don't know.

Great idea, but Ireland is a backward country as it takes a decade or more to catch-up. I'm sure the Polish system would work good here if we ever implement it, hopefully.

My main gripe is the fact that all insured drivers and myself have to pay a higher premium every year because of these uninsured assholes. We could definitely do with the Polish system here now, and it sounds perfect.

Mellor

The australian system is essentially the same. In order to renew your tax/registration each year you need to pay for a compulsory 3rd party policy, which applies to the car itself not the driver.

Fully comp policies are separate policies between you and the insurance companies

Bongalongherb

A couple of months old the below post is but it is costing a bomb...

Uninsured drivers are costing honest motorists millions of euro, prompting calls to have their cars confiscated.


It is estimated there are 150,000 uninsured drIvers on the roads, with their accidents costing the average insured driver €40 in extra premium costs.
Now the Irish Brokers Association (IBA) has called for tougher action to be taken against those who drive without insurance cover.
Brian McNelis of the brokers' representative body said that the thousands of uninsured drivers on the roads had cost law-abiding motorists about €61m last year in claims for accidents.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/confiscate-vehicles-of-the-uninsured-say-brokers-30473180.html

I'm fairly confident that I read of a similar case before in Ireland.

The details may be a bit sketchy here, but if you're bothered to spend ages on Google you may well find what I'm referring to (this is from years ago!).

An uninsured driver put in a claim cos his car was written off in an accident where an insured driver hit him. The judge came to the conclusion that the uninsured driver was entitled to nothing. The logic applied was that his uninsured car should have never been on the road in the first place, and therefore, the crash wouldn't have happened.

Tigger

CiniO wrote: »

IMO OP is perfectly entitled to claim, provided accident wasn't his fault.

Nowhere it's said that if you don't have insurance, you shouldn't be on the road.
It's opposite.
If you are on the road, you should have insurance. If you don't you commit offence, and should be prosecuted for this offence. But not complying with insurance requirement, doesn't suddenly take out OP's right to be driving on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHkM4SGIycw

ComfortKid

Same happened me. 8 months passed,thought I'd gotten away with it but I got the summons. 5 penalty points and 800 fine I got in court

CiniO

Bongalongherb wrote: »

A couple of months old the below post is but it is costing a bomb...


Uninsured drivers are costing honest motorists millions of euro, prompting calls to have their cars confiscated.


It is estimated there are 150,000 uninsured drIvers on the roads, with their accidents costing the average insured driver €40 in extra premium costs.
Now the Irish Brokers Association (IBA) has called for tougher action to be taken against those who drive without insurance cover.
Brian McNelis of the brokers' representative body said that the thousands of uninsured drivers on the roads had cost law-abiding motorists about €61m last year in claims for accidents.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/confiscate-vehicles-of-the-uninsured-say-brokers-30473180.html

That's actually some quite interesting data.
It doesn't say how many insured drivers are out there, but we can work it out.
If uninsured drivers on the roads had cost law-abiding motorists about €61m last year in claims for accidents, and their accidents costing the average insured driver €40 in extra premium then it's simple now.

€61,000,000 / €40 = 1,525,000 That's the amount of insured drivers.
Uninsured drivers were stated in article as 150,000
Together we have 1,675,000 drivers.

Now if payout for 150,000 driver (uninsured but that doesn't matter) was €61m, then payout proportionally for total of 1,675,000 drivers should be around €681,000,000

And if 1,525,000 drivers have to pay €681,000,000 to cover the cost of payouts of third party claims, then it's average of €446.56 per driver.

If everyone paid, average would be €406.56 per driver.

This figure is to cover cost of third party claims only.

Now please someone explain me, why vast majority of drivers in Ireland pay more than €446.56 per annum on third party insurance premium?

CiniO

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Great idea, but Ireland is a backward country as it takes a decade or more to catch-up. I'm sure the Polish system would work good here if we ever implement it, hopefully.

My main gripe is the fact that all insured drivers and myself have to pay a higher premium every year because of these uninsured assholes. We could definitely do with the Polish system here now, and it sounds perfect.

Well there's only one drawback in that system. You can't have your car uninsured, even if you don't use it. So keeping car in your shed for 10 years is kinda no-go, unless you will to pay annual premium on insurance on it.

Warrior1916

You cannot claim however any passengers could sue if they were injured.....if they knew you were not insured and got into the car then their settlement would be reduced by 20% for contributory negligence

CiniO

Warrior1916 wrote: »

You cannot claim however any passengers could sue if they were injured.....if they knew you were not insured and got into the car then their settlement would be reduced by 20% for contributory negligence

How could OP's passengers sue him, if he wasn't at fault in the accident? Shouldn't they claim from driver who caused it?

Mellor

CiniO wrote: »

Now please someone explain me, why vast majority of drivers in Ireland pay more than €446.56 per annum on third party insurance premium?

Because the business expenses for an insurance company are significantly more than simply the payouts on claims.
Overheads, rent, staff wages, advertising, misc running costs, profits etc.

CiniO wrote: »

Well there's only one drawback in that system. You can't have your car uninsured, even if you don't use it. So keeping car in your shed for 10 years is kinda no-go, unless you will to pay annual premium on insurance on it.

The Australian system solves that by tying it to the road tax. If the car is off the road (no tax) then there's no insurance needed.

kirving

I think the OP should be entitled to claim, just as I would be entitled to claim if I was hit while out cycling. The fact he has no insurance has got nothing to do with the fact that he is at a loss due to the other driver. Could have been 1 day out of date, or mistakenly drove a car believing that their own insurance covered them. Not excusable, but not out of malice either.


Now it pisses me off no end that people drive around uninsured, especially since last year I paid the guts of 2 grand between tax and insurance, so while I believe that logically the OP should be entitled to claim, he should also be prosecuted for having no insurance.

MugMugs

OP, I am sure you aware that you probably shouldn't be driving around without Insurance. I can also imagine that you didn't come here to be lectured on that topic by people who think their shit don't stink.

To answer your question and to echo the response of previous posters, yes, you can still claim from the liable parties Insurer for their legal liability to you. Your Insurance status whilst making this claim is immaterial.

Oyva bigwan wrote: »

If you weren't driving it wouldn't have happened, people like you are why my insurance is heading north

I witnessed similar mindset in Turkey once. A taxi driver had a collision and tired to blame myself and my partner because if it wasn't for us, he wouldn't have been there in the first place. Fascinating. :rolleyes:

MugMugs

CiniO wrote: »

How could OP's passengers sue him, if he wasn't at fault in the accident? Shouldn't they claim from driver who caused it?

Technically, the OP's passengers could pursue a claim for Injury against the OP. He could simply redirect it to the liable party however.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Kevin Irving wrote: »

logically the OP should be entitled to claim, he should also be prosecuted for having no insurance.

This makes the most sense to me.

The severity of injury suffered by the OP would determine the size of profit in this case. If s/he has for example sustained whiplash, the claim value would be between €14,400 and €78,400.

Insurance offences can attract a fine of up to €5000 and up to 6 months imprisonment.

inforfun

And the solutions is so simple.
Connect a few databases and as soon as you put a car in your name, the motor tax bill is in the mail and as soon as you take out insurance, that will be registered too.
Car in your name and no insurance and tax? Fine the hell out of them.

Sick of the excuse: Too expensive, i cant afford it. It comes with owning a car. If you cant afford tax/insurance, you just cant afford owning and driving a car.

Special Circumstances

inforfun wrote: »

And the solutions is so simple.
Connect a few databases and as soon as you put a car in your name, the motor tax bill is in the mail and as soon as you take out insurance, that will be registered too.
Car in your name and no insurance and tax? Fine the hell out of them.

Sick of the excuse: Too expensive, i cant afford it. It comes with owning a car. If you cant afford tax/insurance, you just cant afford owning and driving a car.

Can't be that simple , sure any half civilised country could manage that in a single term of government.

What you need to do is:
Lay off half the people in the motor tax office under generous terms. Re-hire twice as many as you need into a super quango. Appoint various people who couldn't organise their way out of a paper bag as directors. Fire bajillions at private sector consultants to implement a poorly specced poorly implemented system. Increase motor tax and levy insurance (again) to pay for this. Make a complete b@lls of it in classic "open goal, harder to miss" fashion. Fail to consult any of the insurance companies and blame them when the system doesn't work. etc etc

Kenny Logins

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm fairly confident that I read of a similar case before in Ireland.

The details may be a bit sketchy here, but if you're bothered to spend ages on Google you may well find what I'm referring to (this is from years ago!).

An uninsured driver put in a claim cos his car was written off in an accident where an insured driver hit him. The judge came to the conclusion that the uninsured driver was entitled to nothing. The logic applied was that his uninsured car should have never been on the road in the first place, and therefore, the crash wouldn't have happened.

You need to back that up with a link.

I'm not so sure they won't payout if the other driver is found at fault, the OP's lack of insurance is a completely separate matter.