register as builder for one off house

cyfac

hi there does anyone know if you have to register seperatley on the BCMS section of the localgov.ie website if you are planning to put yourself down as the builder in addition to being the owner. My engineer is acting as the certifier for both stages incidently he has told me this month is the last time you can register as a self builder without being on a CIF register will cost u 600euros to register and you will need 3 years "relevant" experience thanks

Gumbo

You cannot register yourself as a builder without legally being the director of a building company. So documentation proving this may be required.

sydthebeat

kceire wrote: »

You cannot register yourself as a builder without legally being the director of a building company. So documentation proving this may be required.

Are you sure?

You can be a sole trader in this country without having to register anything with the cro.

Gumbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

Are you sure?

You can be a sole trader in this country without having to register anything with the cro.

I thought that was the whole issue with self builds?
I'm open to correction though as we do t get a lot of self builds in the city.

I thought you had to sign a declaration stating you are a director of a company or some sort on the undertaking certificate for the builder while lodging a commencement notice.

cyfac

kceire wrote: »

I thought that was the whole issue with self builds?
I'm open to correction though as we do t get a lot of self builds in the city.

I thought you had to sign a declaration stating you are a director of a company or some sort on the undertaking certificate for the builder while lodging a commencement notice.

Hi again thanks for the contribution so far you sign off on the competence of the build at the end along with your engineer/architecht you N/A the director declaration as to sign that would be misleading as you are not a director of a builders firm but this is getting away from the direction of my original post regards registration as a builder thanks

Gumbo

cyfac wrote: »

Hi again thanks for the contribution so far you sign off on the competence of the build at the end along with your engineer/architecht you N/A the director declaration as to sign that would be misleading as you are not a director of a builders firm but this is getting away from the direction of my original post regards registration as a builder thanks

Right I get you now, sorry.
Registration with the CIRI is what you are talking about yeah?

galwaytt

..well this suggest you can still self-build........... http://www.iaosb.com/2014-02-26%20Information%20Note%20on%20implications%20of%20SI%20No%209%20of%202014%20for%20Self%20Builders.pdf

sydthebeat

as with many other aspects of SI 9....

what the department consider SI 9 to say is at odds with what SI 9 actually says.

At commencement, they will notify the local authority that they themselves
are the builder and sign the builder’s undertaking required for building
control purposes.

... does not deal with the fact that what they are actually asked to sign is that they are a director or principle of a building company.

if SI 9 is intended to be as they have outlined in that press release, then they should remove any reference to 'director or principle of a building company'... but they havent, and wont.... why not??

it must be understood that in a constitutional democracy, is not the prerogative of the Minister, or his officials, to interpret the law.
That is to be done by the courts.

Shooter_galway

All I have done is register with bcms and engineer was happy with this and said nothing else needed to be done. Hope this helps

sydthebeat

Shooter_galway wrote: »

All I have done is register with bcms and engineer was happy with this and said nothing else needed to be done. Hope this helps

Did you have any previous building development experience?
Genuinely interested to know what level of experience is required to register.

Shooter_galway

I can say the only experience I had was with Lego blocks! Some of in laws and cousins are builders so steering me in the right direction

sydthebeat

Shooter_galway wrote: »

I can say the only experience I had was with Lego blocks! Some of in laws and cousins are builders so steering me in the right direction

So just fill out an on line form and pay €600 ?

Shooter_galway

Nope didn't have to pay 600 quid?! Is there a charge?

cyfac

Shooter_galway wrote: »

Nope didn't have to pay 600 quid?! Is there a charge?

600 quid kicks in fron 1st march onwards

Gumbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

Did you have any previous building development experience?
Genuinely interested to know what level of experience is required to register.

Shooter_galway wrote: »

All I have done is register with bcms and engineer was happy with this and said nothing else needed to be done. Hope this helps

Shooter_galway wrote: »

I can say the only experience I had was with Lego blocks! Some of in laws and cousins are builders so steering me in the right direction

sydthebeat wrote: »

So just fill out an on line form and pay €600 ?

He only registered with the BCMS system. That's nothing, that doesn't even put you anywhere near the register. I could register my granny on the BCMS system and nobody would ever know.

It might be hassle when somebody comes looking for builders insurance, or defects liability or something along those lines.

Gumbo

Shooter_galway wrote: »

Nope didn't have to pay 600 quid?! Is there a charge?

How did you get around the requirements ?

They must adhere to an industry code of ethics and commitments.
They must demonstrate that they have construction competence and experience generally for a period of no less than three years.
They must be tax compliant.
All members of CIRI must commit to undertaking continuous professional development (CPD).
Everyone on the register must comply with the health and safety regulations relating to the construction industry.
They must have a knowledge and understanding of the latest building standards and regulations and commit to adhering to them.
They must undertake an induction training course.

Gumbo

http://cif.ie/news-feed/news/380-ciri-construction-industry-register-ireland.html

Shooter_galway

If I'm not mistaken there was an amendment that tan until 31st of Dec where there was a bit of a loop hole for self builds/one off houses.. Also have had discussions with local planning manager and all seems OK.. Now as I said I'm open to correction.

sydthebeat

kceire wrote: »

He only registered with the BCMS system. That's nothing, that doesn't even put you anywhere near the register. I could register my granny on the BCMS system and nobody would ever know.
.

my bad!!

youre completely correct... i was assuming he said he registered with CIRI

registering with BCMS means absolutely nothing, and your engineer being "happy" with that is not a sign that instills confidence
hes the one that has to be registered.

Shooter_galway

As Far as I'm aware under the amendment last year with one off houses as long as both are registered that satisfies council requirements. I'm open to correction on that but that's gist of what I got from planning manager last July when was talking to him.

sydthebeat

Shooter_galway wrote: »

As Far as I'm aware under the amendment last year with one off houses as long as both are registered that satisfies council requirements. I'm open to correction on that but that's gist of what I got from planning manager last July when was talking to him.

The BCMS is the building control management system.
This is where architects, engineers and surveyors submit commencement notices under SI 9

CIRI is the register for builders

why did you register under the BCMS?

Shooter_galway

Because both engineer and planning manager advised me too, as it requires two signatures for sign off from engineer and builder

sydthebeat

Shooter_galway wrote: »

Because both engineer and planning manager advised me too, as it requires two signatures for sign off from engineer and builder

in essence, you have to do this anyway to submit a commencement notice.

It just means that your engineer is happy to work with a novice unregistered "builder"

and it means that when you sign the "undertaking by builder" form, you are stating that you are a principle or director of a building company.

also that you are competent to undertake the works concerned
and that you undertake to ensure that any persons employed or engaged by me to undertake any of the works involved will be competent to undertake such works

Robert Allen

Sorry guys im a little confused.

1 - I have permission to build under the old regs.
2 - My "Architect" is not actually registered.
3 - My bank are looking for somebody who is registered in order to do a costings/mortgage draw down.

Do you know where is stand in terms of all mentioned above? Can i register as the builder or will i have to pay this é600 fee? Will i getcaught further down the line somewhere in terms of regulations and rules etc?

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

Regards,

Very, VERY confused self builer!!!

sydthebeat

Robert Allen wrote: »

Sorry guys im a little confused.

1 - I have permission to build under the old regs.
2 - My "Architect" is not actually registered.
3 - My bank are looking for somebody who is registered in order to do a costings/mortgage draw down.

Do you know where is stand in terms of all mentioned above? Can i register as the builder or will i have to pay this é600 fee? Will i getcaught further down the line somewhere in terms of regulations and rules etc?

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

Regards,

Very, VERY confused self builer!!!

is your bank looking for an "architect" who is registered?

if so, you need to find one.

it will be that persons decision whether to work with you as a novice self builder or not.

BryanF

Robert Allen wrote: »

Sorry guys im a little confused.

1 - I have permission to build under the old regs.
2 - My "Architect" is not actually registered.
3 - My bank are looking for somebody who is registered in order to do a costings/mortgage draw down.

Do you know where is stand in terms of all mentioned above? Can i register as the builder or will i have to pay this é600 fee? Will i getcaught further down the line somewhere in terms of regulations and rules etc?

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

Regards,

Very, VERY confused self builer!!!

Have you started to build?
Did you submitted a commencement notice before last March ???

Shooter_galway

BryanF wrote: »

Have you started to build?
Did you submitted a commencement notice before last March ???

I could be wrong but as long as planning was submitted by march and commencement notice submitted before December 31st you can avail of the s9 amendment?? I'm open to correction on that. Regardless of loopholes etc I know county councils are imposing facets of the new regs on houses that were well underway by march last year according to a friend of mine working for an engineer.

BryanF

Shooter_galway wrote: »

I could be wrong but as long as planning was submitted by march and commencement notice submitted before December 31st you can avail of the s9 amendment?? I'm open to correction on that. Regardless of loopholes etc I know county councils are imposing facets of the new regs on houses that were well underway by march last year according to a friend of mine working for an engineer.

every bit of this is rubbish

would you read this please http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,35135,en.pdf

Shooter_galway

BryanF wrote: »

every bit of this is rubbish

would you read this please http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,35135,en.pdf

Which part in your expert opinion of my comment is rubbish?

Gumbo

Shooter_galway wrote: »

As Far as I'm aware under the amendment last year with one off houses as long as both are registered that satisfies council requirements. I'm open to correction on that but that's gist of what I got from planning manager last July when was talking to him.

Shooter_galway wrote: »

I could be wrong but as long as planning was submitted by march and commencement notice submitted before December 31st you can avail of the s9 amendment?? I'm open to correction on that. Regardless of loopholes etc I know county councils are imposing facets of the new regs on houses that were well underway by march last year according to a friend of mine working for an engineer.

Shooter_galway wrote: »

Which part in your expert opinion of my comment is rubbish?

All of your info is rubbish here. There was no amendment on the 31st December.
The grant date of your planning nothing whatsoever got to do with your commencement notice and BCMS. you really need to rethink what your plans are here as I think you are going to find out the truth when it's too late.

Gumbo

Robert Allen wrote: »

Sorry guys im a little confused.

1 - I have permission to build under the old regs.
2 - My "Architect" is not actually registered.
3 - My bank are looking for somebody who is registered in order to do a costings/mortgage draw down.

Do you know where is stand in terms of all mentioned above? Can i register as the builder or will i have to pay this é600 fee? Will i getcaught further down the line somewhere in terms of regulations and rules etc?

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

Regards,

Very, VERY confused self builer!!!

How are your registered to build?
Have you lodged a commencement notice?
You cannot lodge a commencement notice for your new house with out a registered architect, chartered engineer or registered building surveyor.

BryanF

Shooter_galway wrote: »

Which part in your expert opinion of my comment is rubbish?

please just read the link and try not to misrepresent your engineer, the council, the law..

Shooter_galway

I have been advised by my council speaking directly to the planning manager and has been ok'd with my engineer as to what I'm doing and is the case with the majority of people building I have been in contact with. If work was commenced between march and December of 2014 the councils and planning boards etc are giving some Lee way to self builds. I am 100% confident in what the engineer and planning manager in my county council have told me. If this doesn't satisfy your views that's a cross for you to bare but as long as my council myself and engineer are happy that's all that counts. And I have all of this in writing.

sydthebeat

Different councils will apply Different rules...
They've been doing it through the years So nothing new at all here.

Shooter_galway

sydthebeat wrote: »

Different councils will apply Different rules...
They've been doing it through the years So nothing new at all here.

Exactly some councils will be regiment with the regs others will not be as lenient.

Gumbo

Shooter_galway wrote: »

I have been advised by my council speaking directly to the planning manager and has been ok'd with my engineer as to what I'm doing and is the case with the majority of people building I have been in contact with. If work was commenced between march and December of 2014 the councils and planning boards etc are giving some Lee way to self builds. I am 100% confident in what the engineer and planning manager in my county council have told me. If this doesn't satisfy your views that's a cross for you to bare but as long as my council myself and engineer are happy that's all that counts. And I have all of this in writing.

I haven't heard of this happening anywhere. What has the planning manager, got to do with the BCMS? Genuine question.

Can you confirm which council is allowing this?

duckcfc

So if I register now as a builder I won't have to pay the 600 if I do it after march. Where is it I register so I dont have to pay. I'm currently registered with the cro as a handyman/builder but think I'll need to change it to a builder if Im legally aloud near an extension or house. Would I be right in thinking this?

Gumbo

duckcfc wrote: »

So if I register now as a builder I won't have to pay the 600 if I do it after march. Where is it I register so I dont have to pay. I'm currently registered with the cro as a handyman/builder but think I'll need to change it to a builder if Im legally aloud near an extension or house. Would I be right in thinking this?

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